What does it mean to focus feeling on breathing from the stomach

[Nahm]

16 minutes ago, fopylo said:

Then how does the breath play in all of that? What is the relationship between the breath, feeling and emotions?

It’s the not focusing on thoughts & concepts. The ‘other than’ thought attachment / thought activity / conceptualizing. 

23 minutes ago, fopylo said:

isn't meditation the answer

Yes. 

[Guest EmptyVase]

14 hours ago, fopylo said:

Always? I'm not aware of my breath (don't feel my breath) most of the day..

The point is, if you do decide to turn your attention to your breath, that attention/perception is flawless.

This.. ↓

Quote

Then, what is felt exactly when feeling the breath, since breath is a thought?

..implies that you do not know what is felt exactly when feeling the breath. However, feeling, or the perception of feeling, is perfect. Feeling is the present moment. You can perfectly feel into your experience now. Consider that feeling might be intuitive knowing.

14 hours ago, fopylo said:

It is still a thought though, even if the imagined breath points to the actuality of it. The trap continues of mistaking thought for actuality.

Yeah, right? Why not let it go.

14 hours ago, fopylo said:

So you say to decide on it one time, like set myself to do it and then to just go with it and forget about it? As long as you set yourself up to it, this is the important thing, which can replace the thinking about the intention you say, yes?

If you would completely forget about it, you wouldn't get it done. Obviously, you will have to deal with whatever you wish for yourself. If you focus intention-based, and let it go, eventually, that intention will come into fruition. The fruition can take endless forms. New ideas and perspectives, new people you meet, finding things from the past, finding the exact thing you looked for, and so on. With all of the fruition taking place, you can't really forget about it, if you set your focus straight. Setting your focus straight means being wakeful in your experience, noticing, feeling, having a dreamboard to direct your focus and to remind yourself of what you want to focus on, daily.

Btw, focussing intention-based doesn't exclude that you can also think about it. Thinking can be an amazing creative tool, just beware of the traps.

[Guest EmptyVase]

18 hours ago, blankisomeone said:

Why is the Breath so important for spirituality?

Lately, I've been recognizing ever more what an impact the breath has on my experience of the present moment. It helps me relax parts of my mind and body, which I "normally" couldn't access and relax. That relaxation makes me fall deeper 'into myself'. It's becoming ever more powerful, not because of some breathing technique, but because the breath is being recognized as a primal force - at least for this ape, typing this.

It's fascinating to watch how the breath is keeping this body thing running.

[fopylo]

@EmptyVase
 

On 1/22/2022 at 3:36 AM, EmptyVase said:

The point is, if you do decide to turn your attention to your breath, that attention/perception is flawless.

On 1/22/2022 at 3:36 AM, EmptyVase said:

However, feeling, or the perception of feeling, is perfect.

If no thoughts, then how do I know that I'm breathing? I mean, the way in which the breath feels is thought..

On 1/22/2022 at 3:36 AM, EmptyVase said:

Feeling is the present moment. You can perfectly feel into your experience now. Consider that feeling might be intuitive knowing.

None of that seems to imply the feeling of the breath

 

[Guest EmptyVase]

@fopylo

I'm not sure whether I understand the question/reply. Where are you headed to with all this?

Edited January 24, 2022 by EmptyVase

[fopylo]

@EmptyVase

Dude I just want to be free and have a deep understanding of reality and emotions. Classically, you start off by tending to believe thoughts which are later let go to realize it feels better. The real problem comes when you start believing spiritual concepts, it's so hard and confusing man... Really fucked up... (Not necessarily in a negative way). It's like the thing that's been taught will be later seen in actuality, just to then realize there's not that thing, but actuality exclusively, which it tries to point to. Can you see where I am on the path?

You know, sometimes it feels even worse than just not meditating/engaging with spirituality. That way there is more flow at least. Not even trying to interpret my direct experience

[Guest EmptyVase]

5 hours ago, fopylo said:

It's like the thing that's been taught will be later seen in actuality, just to then realize there's not that thing, but actuality exclusively, which it tries to point to.

Yeah, once you recognize that you can't capture it, you start to stop believing ideas about spirituality. And then, all that stays is just this. And it's magnificent.

6 hours ago, fopylo said:

Can you see where I am on the path?

Why would you believe me? Wouldn't that also be more conceptualizing?

6 hours ago, fopylo said:

You know, sometimes it feels even worse than just not meditating/engaging with spirituality.

Not sure whether I understood. By that, do you mean that meditation/engaging with spirituality makes you feel better or worse?

[Carl-Richard]

Try to not breathe and see how your stomach reacts.

[fopylo]

On 1/25/2022 at 0:04 AM, EmptyVase said:

Yeah, once you recognize that you can't capture it, you start to stop believing ideas about spirituality.

@EmptyVase

Every concept/idea you have about spirituality, is not it. Every model of reality isn't reality. You can't capture it with your thoughts. Those are just thoughts (which you believe).

- those words are starting to make much more sense lately.

On 1/25/2022 at 0:04 AM, EmptyVase said:

And then, all that stays is just this. And it's magnificent.

Sometimes I wish all you need to learn is hardly anything and just relax into this, instead of having to come up with a branch of a subject called spirituality which focuses on conceptualizing the actuality so that the mind can comprehend, which doesn't work as I just wrote in the last paragraph. Which is why learning spirituality can really destroy your "progress".

On 1/25/2022 at 0:04 AM, EmptyVase said:

Why would you believe me? Wouldn't that also be more conceptualizing?

Touché, thanks.

Then this raises the question: why do people (highly 'spiritual' people) write books about spirituality, talk about the 10 ox heard tail, talk about enlightenment (talk about reaching it)? This is so much conceptualization...

On 1/25/2022 at 0:04 AM, EmptyVase said:

Not sure whether I understood.

I mean that practicing meditation, engaging with spiritual content can get me really into my head conceptualizing this whole thing, which makes me feel very disconnected from my body and feeling. On the other hand, simply living without even engaging my mind much with spirituality can get me focused on the actions I take, my body, and feeling. Perhaps it doesn't make me any more intuitive though about what emotion I'm experiencing, but eh.. I don't know.

[Guest EmptyVase]

4 minutes ago, fopylo said:

Every concept/idea you have about spirituality, is not it. Every model of reality isn't reality. You can't capture it with your thoughts. Those are just thoughts (which you believe).

Spot on. Though, every model of reality is also reality. But that's just more words.

6 minutes ago, fopylo said:

Sometimes I wish all you need to learn is hardly anything and just relax into this, instead of having to come up with a branch of a subject called spirituality which focuses on conceptualizing the actuality so that the mind can comprehend, which doesn't work as I just wrote in the last paragraph. Which is why learning spirituality can really destroy your "progress".

?

You're basically saying, "Dude, I can't find the trees in this goddamn forest!".

What you wish is actually true. Spirituality can't be learned and is aaaall about relaxing into this. Coming up with a branch of a subject called spirituality, which focuses on conceptualizing the actuality so that the mind can comprehend, is precisely the opposite of spirituality.

I'd like to hint you towards your emotional guidance system. Your guidance already told you that this conceptualization business ain't 'it'. Relaxation and not overly theorizing spirituality, on the other hand, resonate with you. That's your guidance speaking to you!

12 minutes ago, fopylo said:

Then this raises the question: why do people (highly 'spiritual' people) write books about spirituality, talk about the 10 ox heard tail, talk about enlightenment (talk about reaching it)? This is so much conceptualization...

I wondered about this too. I think this is a classic case of "Damned if you do, damned if you don't."

If you don't teach the theory, most people will probably never learn about spirituality.

What's also possible is that 'enlightened peepz' probably find joy in guiding people to their true nature. And it's not like these teachings are just conceptual BS. Obviously there is deep truth in them. A bit of conceptualizing (in order to guide the person) is a totally worth the tradeoff.

Another thing that comes to mind is that the ego is conceptual in nature. Non-conceptual, our ego-minds cannot grasp. So we actually use the thing, which keeps the illusion running, to get us out of the illusion. At one point, you realize that no concept can get you out of the conceptual realm. That's when letting go of concepts becomes increasingly easier.

26 minutes ago, fopylo said:

I mean that practicing meditation, engaging with spiritual content can get me really into my head conceptualizing this whole thing, which makes me feel very disconnected from my body and feeling. On the other hand, simply living without even engaging my mind much with spirituality can get me focused on the actions I take, my body, and feeling. Perhaps it doesn't make me any more intuitive though about what emotion I'm experiencing, but eh.. I don't know.

Again, your guidance is telling you something here.

Also, meditation and developing intuition is totally possible throughout the day in any activity. That's the actual field! That's where the rubber meets the road! That's where your emotional guidance system is guiding you in real-time! Hell, your guidance is guiding you 24/7!

This is not to say that you should or shouldn't meditate. I've had my phase of intense spiritual learning, recognized that spirituality ain't about conceptualizing, not even about 'meditating to get to the truth', and eventually dropped this seeking thing altogether. You can't get to the truth, and you can't escape it either. I find the practice of alignment and embodiment to be a great help in this paradoxical confusion. It helps you to 'navigate your way'. And your navigation system is, yes, you guessed it, your emotions.

[fopylo]

16 hours ago, EmptyVase said:

But that's just more words.

this

(Basically going meta via realizing and feeling).

It is only the believing the model is reality rather than part of reality. It is seeing reality through the lens of thought vs seeing the thoughts and the 'physical' reality as whole.

16 hours ago, EmptyVase said:

I'd like to hint you towards your emotional guidance system. Your guidance already told you that this conceptualization business ain't 'it'. Relaxation and not overly theorizing spirituality, on the other hand, resonate with you. That's your guidance speaking to you!

I'd like to actually discuss this part. Actually I have issues with this emotional scale, relating to what we're talking about now. Since there are different emotions on the emotional scale I tend to try differentiating the different emotions, and when experiencing them, the way I can recognize them is often by comparing it with other emotions, subtly - which gets me in my head conceptualizing. Since there's more than one I must conceptualize in order to see the subtle differences in emotions.

2 is found only in thought - nahm

16 hours ago, EmptyVase said:

 A bit of conceptualizing (in order to guide the person) is a totally worth the tradeoff.

Kinda where I am now. It is the middle path between not knowing and knowing, the path of conceptualizing standing in between.

16 hours ago, EmptyVase said:

Non-conceptual, our ego-minds cannot grasp. So we actually use the thing, which keeps the illusion running, to get us out of the illusion. At one point, you realize that no concept can get you out of the conceptual realm.

Yeah, grasping is conceptual. This process of fighting illusion with illusion is to help you realize an easier path, with the additional knowing of a tendency for you (and others) to believe a conceptual self.

17 hours ago, EmptyVase said:

That's the actual field! That's where the rubber meets the road! That's where your emotional guidance system is guiding you in real-time!

I didn't understand... What do you mean by "that's where the rubber meets the road"? What are you talking about?

17 hours ago, EmptyVase said:

I've had my phase of intense spiritual learning, recognized that spirituality ain't about conceptualizing, not even about 'meditating to get to the truth', and eventually dropped this seeking thing altogether. You can't get to the truth, and you can't escape it either. I find the practice of alignment and embodiment to be a great help in this paradoxical confusion.

So then how are you practicing "raising your consciousness"/becoming more "you"/reaching home? Alignment and embodiment of what?

[Guest EmptyVase]

6 hours ago, fopylo said:

I'd like to actually discuss this part. Actually I have issues with this emotional scale, relating to what we're talking about now. Since there are different emotions on the emotional scale I tend to try differentiating the different emotions, and when experiencing them, the way I can recognize them is often by comparing it with other emotions, subtly - which gets me in my head conceptualizing. Since there's more than one I must conceptualize in order to see the subtle differences in emotions.

The scale is less about the scale and more about pointing to feeling. Once again your feeling was right. Conceptualizing the scale feels off. What feels good though is to take just one breath, and to allow yourself to relax a bit with that one breath. Continue doing that one breath relaxation if you want to.

6 hours ago, fopylo said:

Kinda where I am now. It is the middle path between not knowing and knowing, the path of conceptualizing standing in between.

I feel ya, it's vague (not-knowing). But at the same time, it's pretty much in your face (knowing), so to speak.

6 hours ago, fopylo said:

I didn't understand... What do you mean by "that's where the rubber meets the road"? What are you talking about?

It's a saying. It means to put a theory to a practical test.

6 hours ago, fopylo said:

So then how are you practicing "raising your consciousness"/becoming more "you"/reaching home? Alignment and embodiment of what?

Good question, I actually kinda don't. Lol. But that's probably not practical or helpful.

Ever heard of the receiving mode?

Edited January 26, 2022 by EmptyVase

[origin]

 

On 26/12/2021 at 9:24 AM, fopylo said:

I don't know how to meditate or to do this "letting go" shit

 

Edited March 6, 2022 by origin