Meditation for x minutes OR Loose observation throughout the day?

[Nivsch]

Do you also sometimes find more value in a random self-reflection done loosely throughout the day? In a calm way. Without trying hard. 

Although I did time-framed mindfulness for 4 years and I think it has its value, the problems as I see it:

1. The very fact you know its an exercise distorts the observation because the whole field you observe on will be different.

2. Pressure to see results within the time frame which will be counterproductive.

3. Your mind knows you want to "hack" him and will turn on his defense mechanisms.

But when you do it loosely, I think there is more chance you will able to surprise your mind, when unprepared, with an more authentic and pure self-reflection. Actually I think I had more "OH" moments with significant perspective shifts (about myself, my anxiety and more) when the observation was spontaneous. But I think I have not did it enough and I want to really go more serious with self-reflection and do it more in this way.

What do you think?

I don't know exactly why I write this question, maybe I want a motivation/validation to this way of observation, or also I have a fear that this way won't be considered as "valid" way by people here or something. But it is also genuinely interesting to me what do you think and what is your experience with that.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Nivsch

[Carl-Richard]

25 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Do you also sometimes find more value in a random self-reflection done loosely throughout the day?

This can lead to Spiritual ADHD. It's monkey mind hijacking spirituality and turning it into another survival mechanism. By removing structured meditation, you only move the structure inside your head. It's called attachment: cyclical thoughts driving cyclical behavior. Your mind will make up any excuse to think about meditation: "is this a good time to meditate?" "maybe I should meditate now that I have time" "am I meditating enough?" "how long have I meditated today?". 

By making your practice a well-oiled habit and restricting it to short and intensive periods, you have no reason to think about meditation for the rest of the day; cyclical behavior with minimal cyclical thoughts. One less thing to worry about, one less thing to get your mind stuck on. If your goal is less monkey mind, actually practice what you preach. Cultivate an embodied spiritual practice, not an opportunistic mind game.

[Nivsch]

16 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

This can lead to Spiritual ADHD. It's monkey mind hijacking spirituality and turning it into another survival mechanism.

Hijacking will happen anyway always. That's the special moments (0.1%) when your mind is unprepared which matters.

 

16 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Your mind will make up any excuse to think about meditation: "is this a good time to meditate?" "maybe I should meditate now that I have time" "am I meditating enough?" "how long have I meditated today?". 

You will not think at all about meditating. it will be label-less and will come automatically from the desire to self-reflect and/or face the fear connected to the thought that can come at any given time throughout the day.

 

16 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

By making your practice a well-oiled habit and restricting it to short and intensive periods, you have no reason to think about meditation for the rest of the day

Its individual. for me it wasn't true because I was thinking "what am I gonna do at the free time? dont observe? observe? wont it be better to also observe without timer?" the mind can confuse you anyway.

 

16 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

If your goal is less monkey mind

Insights and overcome emotional problems.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Nivsch

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Hijacking will happen anyway always. That's the special moments (0.1%) when your mind is unprepared which matters.

You still want to minimize the overall amount of attachments, especially the ones that are broad and cause frequent thoughts. "I need to meditate given any chance" is such an attachment. Attachment to spirituality can be crippling, and some are worse than others.

 

2 hours ago, Nivsch said:

You will not think at all about meditating. it will be label-less and will come automatically from the desire to self-reflect and/or face the fear connected to the thought that can come at any given time throughout the day.

Maybe if you're in a persistent thought-free state. Thoughts arise around attachments. It's unavoidable.

 

2 hours ago, Nivsch said:

 "what am I gonna do at the free time? dont observe? observe? wont it be better to also observe without timer?" the mind can confuse you anyway.

That happens because you haven't decided yet. Uncertainty breeds questions. Be decisive: don't observe (or do). Growth happens during rest.

[mandyjw]

Meditation is detachment from thought. Are you talking about contemplation or meditation? 

I've mostly been totally spontaneous and free with contemplation. I've run since I was 10 and thoughts would slow and insights and passionate feelings for spiritual things arose. Do what you are inclined to do. You're utterly free. Thoughts say otherwise. We make time in meditation to enjoy our utter boundlessness. Meditation is not contemplation, it's letting go of thoughts. 

I have a habit in the morning and night to brush my teeth because I like having clean teeth and I don't have to think about it. Build in habits that serve you. Enjoy life and spontaneity around them. Then do as you're inspired to do. Focus on what you have determined through the means of inspiration and feeling that which is important to you. There is no conflict here. 

I spontaneously journal or write to let go of thoughts and work up through a low emotional state. I do this as needed. It's helpful to carve out time for it, but it's best done when the need arises. Again, fantastic feelings and insight comes out of nowhere. Sometimes it's the most unexpected random things (we would think it to be distraction) that inspire an insight, other times we have to clear everything away to make space, we have to listen and open to receive it. 

You've got all the tools at your disposal. Practices, spontaneity, it's all at your disposal. It's all for you, all part of you. No conflict, you're just lucky. 

18 hours ago, Nivsch said:

I don't know exactly why I write this question, maybe I want a motivation/validation to this way of observation, or also I have a fear that this way won't be considered as "valid" way by people here or something. 

Meh. We're all just a bunch of idiots on the internet. We're just writing all this shit for you. None of it is valid. You got this. ❤

[BipolarGrowth]

Building up base mindfulness then using that to notice the arising and passing of sensations/phenomena (essentially adding vipassana focused on impermanence) has been working great for me. I do it in meditation and throughout the day. Buddhism (namely the Satipatthana Sutta) describes this continuous mindfulness as a quite important stage to reach for further growth. 
 

“True meditation dies on the cushion.” -Personal quote I’ve said before. It points to the importance of allowing meditation to come naturally rather than forcefully.