Does Leo Conflate the Absolute you and relative you?

[Thought Art]

(Shower Thoughts and creative thinking... These videos leave me scratching my head because Leo seems so grounded in like 95% of his videos)

When watching this video:

https://www.actualized.org/articles/an-advanced-explanation-of-god-realization

Leos says things like:

1. He doesn't have his own consciousness

2. That only I exist and only my bubble of existence exists and that this is the whole universe. Which is a radically different, complete 180 as to how I was raised and how I interpreted the last 25 years with all it suffering, stupidity, ups and downs, song writing, etc... 

3. But then when he talks about this new psychedelic he has found he says it worked for him but he doesn't know if it will work for others. This seems confusing and paradoxical for me. How can there be a God realization chemical, that wouldn't work for me if I am God? Is that just more of my infinite intelligence fooling myself?

I mean, at that point there is not fucking chemicals. So, if I am God I would give it to myself to save the world if I could. But... there is no world. Just me. So, why do I suffer? Just for the thrill and adventure of it? If I was God I would find a way to save the planet (which apparently doesn't exist other than in my imagination). To spread infinite love and endless beauty, forgiveness, safety, self acceptance, unity, beauty of the highest magnificence that never ended. I would be a sparkling jewel and a mirror to the world, to myself to remind myself of my true nature. Or, am I just an egocentric ape listening to another ape who got too high on drugs and started tricking the other apes to think they are all alone? I would fully accept myself, others, and love other unconditionally yet, with the right balance and intelligence. I would be supersymmetry. I would be perfect balance, perfect understanding, perfect beauty.

I would be self forgiveness, unity and love. Nothing else matters. Not when we only live once. Infinite Love, embodied in a mature way is the only thing that makes sense. I might take my many more years to wrap my head around all this. To Put Leo's teaching in their right place. 

Perhaps I all ready am this perfection. Just, that the Tao has the yin and yang, good and bad to make the whole thing more interesting. 

If I was God I would embark on the perfect adventure and create a bread crumb trail for myself to awaken. So far this seems to be the case... 

All this is said because I take self deception very seriously and realize that no one, not even 'Imaginary Leo' is free from self deception, the potential to be a Zen devil or unconsciously a cult leader etc. I don't think Leo is a cult leader. But, this whole "You are alone, you created me thing" Could be risky if there is an external world and other people. 

Sorry if this seems stupid. There seem to be unreconcilable statements made in this video I find confusing. 

When he says I am God and I am the whole universe as this bubble of experience... That he doesn't have his own awareness and he is just my own bubble of consciousness speaking to itself... But then talks about how he could be chasing sex, money etc but doesn't because he isn't deluded and then says he has this chemical that might not work on me?

----Semi Joking here... Sharing shower thoughts-----(How can someone who has no consciousness or bubble of experience do a psychedelic, create a game like Bioshock infinte which got a 10/10, struggle with women and then do pick up at the age of 27, create a life purpose course, etc etc..... AM I just as this infinite bubble of experience creating backdrops and stories to ground myself in this game or story I have created for myself. Is this what infinity does with it's time? Play these crazy hide and seek games?  Am I the game I created to play with in this state on a relative level? Is that the joke here. Leo was a video game designer, Leo is God, I am God playing a video game I created myself As I am actually Leo, more Leo than Leo is Leo because I created him?). I put myself to sleep, and then created Leo to wake me up as I got older?).

It seems more likely I am just a highly evolved ape, amongst many others. I am aware that I am God, that I am Part of God but to be the WHOLE of God? Surely he is conflating absolute or relative or I am doing so here. This whole topic just seems like stupidity and foolishness to me. Surely, I am not all alone here. Which would be fine. But, it seems like a cosmic joke or something that I am here asking this if that is the case. It's making my laugh out loud. An infinite void typing away, feeling confused and kind of stressed when it already knows all the answers. What is going on?

Because it seems like I am just one human on a planet with billions of other humans partaking in a very real and brutal game of survival. It seems as if my consciousness is produced by a nervous system (sure, grounded in Chit), but that there are billions if not trillions or and infinite amount of perspectives around the world.

Leo also says things like, God wants to live in every house hold doing everything that is currently happening on the planet. Yet, if I am the only bubble then God wants to be a white 25 year old Canadian who is grappling with his own self-actualization journey toward becoming a more consciousness and loving human despite all his limitations and challenges. 

What am I not getting here? 

Is he speaking about states of awareness that are internal? is he speaking about my experience relative to what I will ever experience as a human because I can't prove or disprove this claim that others exist?

The fact that anything exists at all and it is so immersive and powerful yeah, this very moment is infinite intelligence, and absolute relativity makes perfect sense to me and this whole game of keeping me asleep makes sense as well. I mean, it seems a little over kill that it is just this bubble and nothing else to have all this richness and complexity, and mundanity etc.

I will ask more questions openly because I am trying to figure out what he is doing? Is he playing spiritual games with my mind?

Then, what the fuck am I doing here? What about climate change, life purpose, awakening, friendships.. If I am imagining it all willingly as a bubble of experience in an infinite void in which everything that is taking place within the void is just he infinite show that God plays with itself... 

If God was infinitely intelligent then why couldn't God be more than One? If God is so Radically One that this is the only experience in the entire universe than, that is pretty fucking cool but I am done with some things. Like, fake friends and anxieties of what others think of me. There seem to be very real external limitations that are place on me. God must really like Dark Souls type games because this entire thing is on like Hard Mode. You know?

Is there fate? am I really in a dream with no meaning or outcome? 

Then why have I ever since I was a kid had vivid dreams of future events that ACTUALLY HAPPEN EXACTLY AS I DREAMED THEM. Sometimes weeks in advance or something years in advance. That must mean the future actually already exists right now.

One time after speaking to Leo I went and got on the bus 14, which was the bus 111 and on that bus was this balled man, who looked just like Leo AND he spoke with a Russian accent. It was so weird. I didn't add meaning to it I took literally I just thought it was funny.

"I can't get 

my head around it

I thought I found it

but I found out I don't know shit..."

I am just speculating.. Sharing my delusions, sharing my questions.

I personally take up Neitches philosphy of the free spirit and can entertain ideas without attaching to them. So, I don't operate as if anything here is true. I just can't reconcile his guided realization you are God or some of the statements made in the above video. 

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Thought Art

[OneHandClap]

One has to realize that when people are speaking of these extreme levels of awareness, there is a total breakdown of language. What we call the relative self is the absolute self, perceived from a dualistic state of consciousness. Relativity exists within the absolute. 

So stating that there is no self, all is God, all is one, etc., is really a pointer for the relative mind. It is provisional, like everything else.

Seungsahn famously told students, "Stop dragging this corpse around. You are already dead." This wasn't him stating that the student was literally a zombie; it was a teaching directly straight at the heart of their dualistic conception of life and death. It was designed to arouse the basic, luminous quality of their mind. 

Likewise, people may hear Leo saying "There are no others," and take that to build a castle of solipsism. It must be understood in context. There are no others does not mean there's just you, the perceiving ego-mind, generating reality—it means there is no such individual mind capable of claiming ownership over any facet of existence. There is only consciousness itself, taking the shape of an individual mind. 

As you said in your post, God could in fact dream more than one "God," if we're referring to God as an individual being with an imagination. That is precisely what reality is. So long as we are using dualistic thinking (almost everybody on this forum is), we are individual minds communicating information to one another. At the Absolute level, there is no need for this transfer of information, because it's a self-sustained system in which there is nothing and nobody to communicate. 

But no matter how deep insights into no-self and impermanence are, we must all reckon with the base fact that we live as bodies. We have to take care of our own body, clothe it, feed it, give it shelter. We exist in limited forms, because this is the only way that the Absolute can know itself on a dualistic level.

Tl;dr Limited existence is a feature, not a bug, of reality. Individuals and the Absolute are one and the same. 

 

 

Btw, to address your question of "What's it all about?" keep in mind that all of your questions are coming from a limited body-mind (as you said, a brain and nervous system) trying desperately to figure out reality. Its only job is to keep you alive. It does not care what is true. You might imagine your self, and all other "selves," to be knots in a giant tapestry of existence. When one undoes the knot, and the tapestry becomes smooth, where has the knot gone? These knots are essentially tension in our body-mind. This very tension is what keeps us from feeling connected to reality-as-it-is (AKA God). If we can undo the tension and let the mind be totally at rest, our knot will be done, and there will be nobody asking the questions. Only bliss. 

Edited July 18, 2021 by OneHandClap

[Thought Art]

16 minutes ago, OneHandClap said:

One has to realize that when people are speaking of these extreme levels of awareness, there is a total breakdown of language. What we call the relative self is the absolute self, perceived from a dualistic state of consciousness. Relativity exists within the absolute. 

So stating that there is no self, all is God, all is one, etc., is really a pointer for the relative mind. It is provisional, like everything else.

Seungsahn famously told students, "Stop dragging this corpse around. You are already dead." This wasn't him stating that the student was literally a zombie; it was a teaching directly straight at the heart of their dualistic conception of life and death. It was designed to arouse the basic, luminous quality of their mind. 

Likewise, people may hear Leo saying "There are no others," and take that to build a castle of solipsism. It must be understood in context. There are no others does not mean there's just you, the perceiving ego-mind, generating reality—it means there is no such individual mind capable of claiming ownership over any facet of existence. There is only consciousness itself, taking the shape of an individual mind. 

As you said in your post, God could in fact dream more than one "God," if we're referring to God as an individual being with an imagination. That is precisely what reality is. So long as we are using dualistic thinking (almost everybody on this forum is), we are individual minds communicating information to one another. At the Absolute level, there is no need for this transfer of information, because it's a self-sustained system in which there is nothing and nobody to communicate. 

But no matter how deep insights into no-self and impermanence are, we must all reckon with the base fact that we live as bodies. We have to take care of our own body, clothe it, feed it, give it shelter. We exist in limited forms, because this is the only way that the Absolute can know itself on a dualistic level.

Tl;dr Limited existence is a feature, not a bug, of reality. Individuals and the Absolute are one and the same. 

Leo explicitly says that what I am experiencing is the WHOLE universe.  IF that isn't the case, then he needs to fucking explain that in the moment he makes those statements. 

FOR YOU, this is YOUR WHOLE UNIVERSE. He should say, you only experience one bubble, there are no other bubbles (because there just aren't I have never experienced another bubble). So, in terms of spirituality this is all there is. This is actual and everything else is imagination or concepts. Regardless of if there is a planet. I can see there actually being a planet, which in order to understand is something I imagine. But, then he says that even me looking at a photograph of a planet is just as imaginary, though contextually different from just me thinking there is a planet. I could go out into space, look at the actually fucking planet, but I still can't prove if it's not some kind of dream or imaginary thing I am doing. Which it is.

If God is a radical singular being, imagining others so it doesn't feel alone (which seems so arbitrary it is stupid) then, I guess I just got to keep playing the game and suffer through it. I can't live my life playing with these concepts all the time.

Is he just being sloppy, or am I just some idiot? (I am an idiot, but, I can't tell if he is being sloppy)

What does it mean to be RADICALLY ONE?

Because, I can get oneness in duality as the infinite cosmic intelligence simultaneously playing each of us. 

But, if It's just this bubble of impossible shapes, an infinitely intelligent strange-loop playing with itself. I can't seem to prove or disprove it because I would have the infinite power to deny what I am doing. 

There have been times on trips which seem too synchronous and real, so clear to me that IT"S JUST ME FOREVER. But, then when I come back to the relative it's like that was just 'a pipe dream'.. as they call it. I have seen infinity, eternaity. Once when I was like 12 I had a fever and I experience grocked a million years in eternal hellfire... That experience really humbled me.

Once I told my mother that "I have killed hundreds of thousand of people" during a fever. For a 12 year old kid to say that...  I must have been possessed my a demon... Who was I in a past life? Lol! 

I have had trips where I realize that this moment is simply infinity playing a game with itself.

But, am I just deluded? 

So, I forget it and just go back to playing this dualistic game of mundane human survival. Which is fine too.  

Edited July 18, 2021 by Thought Art

[OneHandClap]

12 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Leo explicitly says that what I am experiencing is the WHOLE universe.  IF that isn't the case, then he needs to fucking explain that in the moment he makes those statements. 

FOR YOU, this is YOUR WHOLE UNIVERSE. He should say, you only experience one bubble, there are no other bubbles (because there just aren't I have never experienced another bubble). So, in terms of spirituality this is all there is. This is actual and everything else is imagination or concepts. Regardless of if there is a planet. I can see there actually being a planet, which in order to understand is something I imagine. But, then he says that even me looking at a photograph of a planet is just as imaginary, though contextually different from just me thinking there is a planet. I could go out into space, look at the actually fucking planet, but I still can't prove if it's not some kind of dream or imaginary thing I am doing. Which it is.

If God is a radical singular being, imagining others so it doesn't feel alone (which seems so arbitrary it is stupid) then, I guess I just got to keep playing the game and suffer through it. I can't live my life playing with these concepts all the time.

Is he just being sloppy, or am I just some idiot? (I am an idiot, but, I can't tell if he is being sloppy)

What does it mean to be RADICALLY ONE?

Because, I can get oneness in duality as the infinite cosmic intelligence simultaneously playing each of us. 

But, if It's just this bubble of impossible shapes, an infinitely intelligent strangeloop playing with itself. I can't seem to prove or disprove it because I would have the infinite power to deny what I am doing. 

There have been times on trips which seem to synchronus and real, so clear to me that IT"S JUST ME FOREVER. But, then when I come back to the relative it's like that was just 'a pipe dream'.. as they call it.

Materialism gets a terrible rap around here, but try it on as a hat for a minute. It can be a workable tool if you are too deep in the rabbit hole of God realization. 

Consider that your body and mind evolved over millions of years to keep this organism alive. A brain is capable of producing any number of experiences to help you survive and make sense of what is going on.

What are the odds that some of those perceptions are wrong? Like when you see a rope and assume it's a snake?

Insights from tripping are valuable, but they are not the endgame. Taking every trip's perceptions at face value is asking to be misled in delusion. After all, your mind is constructing reality based on memories and beliefs. If you believe you are the only one in existence and take a shitload of acid, what a surprise if you "confirm" you are the only one in existence?

True breakthroughs require a state of not-knowing. Trying to use your intellect to brute force your way to God realization will not work. Drop the labels of bubbles, God, self, other, universe, cosmic intelligence, duality. 

See past all of it. Look at what is still there. Keep sinking into it, and you'll find that the words were nothing more than half-broken signs on the highway. 

By the way, the idea of God playing a game with itself is half-accurate, but not the whole picture. Again, it is a pointing to the human mind, which cannot even imagine the infinite in any way. You are still imagining God as a single mind that has desires such as "entertaining itself," "not being lonely," etc. God has no desires. God is self-complete. 

Edited July 18, 2021 by OneHandClap

[Thought Art]

1 minute ago, OneHandClap said:

Materialism gets a terrible rap around here, but try it on as a hat for a minute. It can be a workable tool if you are too deep in the rabbit hole of God realization. 

Consider that your body and mind evolved over millions of years to keep this organism alive. A brain is capable of producing any number of experiences to help you survive and make sense of what is going on.

What are the odds that some of those perceptions are wrong? Like when you see a rope and assume it's a snake?

Insights from tripping are valuable, but they are not the endgame. Taking every trip's perceptions at face value is asking to be misled in delusion. After all, your mind is constructing reality based on memories and beliefs. If you believe you are the only one in existence and take a shitload of acid, what a surprise if you "confirm" you are the only one in existence?

True breakthroughs require a state of not-knowing. Trying to use your intellect to brute force your way to God realization will not work. Drop the labels of bubbles, God, self, other, universe, cosmic intelligence, duality. 

See past all of it. Look at what is still there. Keep sinking into it, and you'll find that the words were nothing more than half-broken signs on the highway. 

I am saying that too.

[OneHandClap]

Just now, Thought Art said:

I am saying that too.

I think you are on to good stuff. Just important to remember not to get too deep down any one particular line of thought. That's how people wind up in psych wards and solipsistic psychosis. 

You are right that Leo may need to contextualize more, but unlike the Buddha, he isn't teaching to small groups. He doesn't know who will watch these videos, or their levels of understanding. 

That's why I do support small-scale coaching for the most part. Context is everything

[Thought Art]

3 minutes ago, OneHandClap said:

I think you are on to good stuff. Just important to remember not to get too deep down any one particular line of thought. That's how people wind up in psych wards and solipsistic psychosis. 

You are right that Leo may need to contextualize more, but unlike the Buddha, he isn't teaching to small groups. He doesn't know who will watch these videos, or their levels of understanding. 

That's why I do support small-scale coaching for the most part. Context is everything

I clearly stated the point of this post was to play with ideas.

[OneHandClap]

Just now, Thought Art said:

I clearly stated the point of this post was to play with ideas.

Yeah, but sadly, not everyone on this forum is as grounded as you seem to be. There are plenty of "enlightened masters" running around here professing how they're the one true center of reality and we're all NPCs...

[Thought Art]

5 minutes ago, OneHandClap said:

Yeah, but sadly, not everyone on this forum is as grounded as you seem to be. There are plenty of "enlightened masters" running around here professing how they're the one true center of reality and we're all NPCs...

What I am saying... How do you know it's not just you and you are fooling yourself? How do you know I have my own bubble of awareness?

What about Leo Saying he doesn't have his own awareness? Doesn't that upset you? Why are you here?

Because it's either true ( I just don't know how to reconcile it)

Insane

Manipulative

and I can't tell which one.

Like, when Leo thought if he OD'd on 5meo that he would destroy the whole universe... Clearly that is him becoming ungrounded an putting that in his video.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Thought Art

[OneHandClap]

Just now, Thought Art said:

What I am saying... How do you know it's not just you and you are fooling yourself? How do you know I have my own bubble of awareness?

What about Leo Saying he doesn't have his own awareness? Doesn't that upset you? Why are you here?

Okay, I tried to explain this in a previous post, but then you said you know and are just joking?

So here we go - a short version.

Everybody does and doesn't have their own awareness. As you and I are speaking, you are Thought Art and I am OneHandClap, and we are seeing this moment from two points of view. The information we receive is stored separately in "our own" minds. 

At the level of absolute consciousness, when we are at a state of complete surrender to the present moment, there is no sense of there being a separate "me" inside my head. There is only whatever is happening. Sounds, sights, smells, whatever, but they do not belong to anybody. This is what is meant by "it's all one."

There is no one individual who is imagining every other person into reality like the master of a dream. We can say God is doing it, but that is just making God into an individual being. God is the very fabric of all beings. There is nobody dictating the show. The show just happens. And the show is God. 

As separate individuals, we are all perceiving "the show" from different angles. 

It doesn't upset me because I've done enough contemplation to know that solipsism is just a stepping stone on the path, and a trap. It is not the final destination. 

[Thought Art]

9 minutes ago, OneHandClap said:

Okay, I tried to explain this in a previous post, but then you said you know and are just joking?

So here we go - a short version.

Everybody does and doesn't have their own awareness. As you and I are speaking, you are Thought Art and I am OneHandClap, and we are seeing this moment from two points of view. The information we receive is stored separately in "our own" minds. 

At the level of absolute consciousness, when we are at a state of complete surrender to the present moment, there is no sense of there being a separate "me" inside my head. There is only whatever is happening. Sounds, sights, smells, whatever, but they do not belong to anybody. This is what is meant by "it's all one."

There is no one individual who is imagining every other person into reality like the master of a dream. We can say God is doing it, but that is just making God into an individual being. God is the very fabric of all beings. There is nobody dictating the show. The show just happens. And the show is God. 

As separate individuals, we are all perceiving "the show" from different angles. 

It doesn't upset me because I've done enough contemplation to know that solipsism is just a stepping stone on the path, and a trap. It is not the final destination. 

Yeah, but what you are saying is not what Leo is saying. I don't mean to sound argumentative. 

Leo seems to be saying something radically different. 

He says he doesn't exist, that I am all alone and that I am constructing everything.

I am fine if you exist, but do you? Would make sense to me. 

These "God realization videos" create a cycling triviality that really just leaves me back into playing within a relative mystical materialism because that suits social cohesion and survival. That I can remain sane and interact with others.

He must be speaking about a state, but not something that is relative. 

I must be misunderstanding him, and what I think he means. 

Leo is saying radical things. I Am not believing him, just putting it out there.

"You as God have absolute consciousness. What you are seeing is all that exists" is radically different from, what is obvious that my own experience is my whole universe, and yours is yours, sally hers etc. But he isn't saying that.

He is saying is clear and explicit that it's just me. Or, I am totally misinterpreting him. 

He sounds insane...

I personally think that there are other people, we need to be grounded and rational, balanced etc... 

He must be just playing spiritual mind fuck games with people. 

I can't reconcile how he bounces between solipsism, and then that there are other people. These God realization videos are trivial and arbitrary and leave me feeling like he is just wasting my time.  

Edited July 18, 2021 by Thought Art

[OneHandClap]

Just now, Thought Art said:

Yeah, but what you are saying is not what Leo is saying. I don't mean to sound argumentative. 

Leo seems to be saying something radically different. 

He says he doesn't exist, that I am all alone and that I am constructing everything.

I am fine if you exist, but do you? Would make senes to me. 

Leo is saying radical things. I Am not believing him, just putting it out there.

"You as God have absolute consciousness. What you are seeing is all that exists" is radically different from, what is obvious that my own experience is my whole universe, and yours is yours, sally hers etc. But he isn't saying that.

He is making is clear and explicit that it's just me. Or, I am totally misinterpreting him. 

I personally think that there are other people, we need to be grounded and rational, balanced etc... 

He must be just playing spiritual mind fuck games with people. 

Lol, I get you, no worries. 

As I said earlier, I think many of Leo's statements are provocative to shake people's minds out of their normal ruts. It's sort of like a cold shower for the mind that has always assumed it exists like a little man inside someone's skull. 

In saying the thing about "all that exists," I believe he is pointing out that most of what we imagine "out there" comes as memories, beliefs, imagination, and prediction. And all of those things, of course, can't lead to Love, because they are impermanent mental processes. 

I do tend to come at it with more of a physical angle than Leo. I think enlightenment can be explained very well to materialist people by saying, "Hey, look, it's just about making the brain relax and realize it doesn't need to fight for survival 24/7." Then the love arises naturally, and the brain stops making everything so ego-driven. 

I'm on your side in stating that yes, sometimes this forum does get attached to radical ideas that aren't literal facts. It leads some people down very dangerous roads because they prefer DMT to do the work rather than their own contemplation. 

Sorry if I misunderstood you

[Thought Art]

9 minutes ago, OneHandClap said:

Lol, I get you, no worries. 

As I said earlier, I think many of Leo's statements are provocative to shake people's minds out of their normal ruts. It's sort of like a cold shower for the mind that has always assumed it exists like a little man inside someone's skull. 

In saying the thing about "all that exists," I believe he is pointing out that most of what we imagine "out there" comes as memories, beliefs, imagination, and prediction. And all of those things, of course, can't lead to Love, because they are impermanent mental processes. 

I do tend to come at it with more of a physical angle than Leo. I think enlightenment can be explained very well to materialist people by saying, "Hey, look, it's just about making the brain relax and realize it doesn't need to fight for survival 24/7." Then the love arises naturally, and the brain stops making everything so ego-driven. 

I'm on your side in stating that yes, sometimes this forum does get attached to radical ideas that aren't literal facts. It leads some people down very dangerous roads because they prefer DMT to do the work rather than their own contemplation. 

Sorry if I misunderstood you

Yeah, for me and my life's work I am more focused on practical ,dualistic spiritual development from breathwork, Qigong, Yoga, tantra, sacred space, Esoterics etc...

Non-duality and unity are important of course.

Leo is saying very clearly in the video I posted above that it is just me. Which is true. Everything at the highest level is me. But, he is saying it radically so.

I am sensing the futility of even speaking to you here given the implications of his claims.

It's like he created a logical/ transrational loop with his words that you can't get out of or understand. You can't verify what he is saying unless you ACTUALLY REALIZE YOURSELF AS GOD. But, I am God. So, what is going on?

Because, the depth and radicalness of what he is saying means that this conversation CANNOT prove or disprove what he is saying. That, God has to actually realize itself. And, until that happens this all seems like trivial non-dual bullshit  that has nothing to do with living a good life.

What he is saying might just need the right context. Or, he is just fucking with us.

ORRR, I am still a newbie to all this and I just need to contemplate, work at this for a few more years while keeping myself grounded despite his very ungrounding claims.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Thought Art

[OneHandClap]

1 minute ago, Thought Art said:

Yeah, for me and my life's work I am more focused on practical ,dualistic spiritual development from breathwork, Qigong, Yoga Esoterics etc...

Non-duality and unity are important of course.

Leo is saying very clearly in the video I posted above that it is just me. Which is true. Everything at the highest level is me. But, he is saying it radically so.

I am sensing the futility of even speaking to you here given the implications of his claims.

It's like he created a logical/ translational loop with his words that you can't get out of or understand.

Because, the depth and radicalness of what he is saying means that this conversation CANNOT prove or disprove what he is saying. That, God has to actually realize itself. And, until that happens this all seems like trivial non-dual bullshit  that has nothing to do with living a good life.

Well, this, my friend, is why I referred to solipsism. This is another belief along the path. Again, we have to keep in mind that Leo is not stating that whoever watches that video is the only one in existence. He's stating that "you," being absolute consciousness, is the only reality. And while yes, everything is absolute consciousness, there is no center to it. Whoever hears the words "you" becomes the center, in their own frame of reference. 

If you go down the rabbit hole of believing I am just an imaginary string of letters appearing on your computer screen, and that you are real but I am not, that is metaphysical solipsism.

After all, you can only believe that is true because you think the thought "I am real, X is not." "I made the world." 

What happens to solipsism if there is no thinking? How can anybody take credit for being real? In short, solipsism is a thought pattern. Try to find the silence under your thoughts about reality. 

[Thought Art]

5 minutes ago, OneHandClap said:

Well, this, my friend, is why I referred to solipsism. This is another belief along the path. Again, we have to keep in mind that Leo is not stating that whoever watches that video is the only one in existence. He's stating that "you," being absolute consciousness, is the only reality. And while yes, everything is absolute consciousness, there is no center to it. Whoever hears the words "you" becomes the center, in their own frame of reference. 

If you go down the rabbit hole of believing I am just an imaginary string of letters appearing on your computer screen, and that you are real but I am not, that is metaphysical solipsism.

After all, you can only believe that is true because you think the thought "I am real, X is not." "I made the world." 

What happens to solipsism if there is no thinking? How can anybody take credit for being real? In short, solipsism is a thought pattern. Try to find the silence under your thoughts about reality. 

Like I said, God Realization can't be understood here in this medium. Leo is saying It's just me. What would be the difference? 

It makes no difference to me whether you exist or not. 

You are just a belief I have, even if you are real. This belief keeps me alive, and grounded and sane. 

 

I can zoom in and out and hold multiple lenses at once. To me this is the only way to make sense of spiritual teachings because if you lean to far to any one side whether is solipsism, or materialism, or idealism, or whatever else then you can easily fall into traps. If you lean to far to any one side then you conflate the absolute and the relative.

I am not holding on to anything of these concepts.

It's all sort of mental jerking off until you are actually God realized. But, then it's too late and the game is over ahaha Idk.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Thought Art

[OneHandClap]

1 minute ago, Thought Art said:

Like I said, God Realization can't be understood here in this medium. Leo is saying It's just me. What would be the difference? 

It makes no difference to me whether you exist or not. 

I can zoom in and out and hold multiple lenses at once. 

The trouble is that you are still holding that there is someone generating and perceiving reality (which you may call you as God, but that's a non-starter, because God doesn't do anything). There's nobody home. Consciousness is not a being, but an Absolute. And right now, you exist as a human body and human mind. That's how you're typing to me right now  Every being is equally God beneath the surface. If you were truly God right now, you would be omniscient. You would be able to predict my every word and know everything that happened in the past. But I suspect that is not true for your current form of existence. 

[Thought Art]

3 minutes ago, OneHandClap said:

The trouble is that you are still holding that there is someone generating and perceiving reality (which you may call you as God, but that's a non-starter, because God doesn't do anything). There's nobody home. Consciousness is not a being, but an Absolute. And right now, you exist as a human body and human mind. That's how you're typing to me right now  Every being is equally God beneath the surface. If you were truly God right now, you would be omniscient. You would be able to predict my every word and know everything that happened in the past. But I suspect that is not true for your current form of existence. 

No, that isn't true. God is infinitely powerful. 

Could an infinite omniscient being create an experience where there are objects it cant lift? Or, others in which it could not predict or control? Of course it could. Because that is part of the game it's playing.

I am not claiming to be in an omniscient state, so be mindful of putting words in my mouth. What I am attempting to do here is be radically open and challenge literally everything until I am True. I don't give a fuck what the truth is as long as I can ground myself in it. Ideally it helps with survival and a great life. So, whatever that is I am game. Okay, good night!

Edited July 18, 2021 by Thought Art

[OneHandClap]

A lot of beliefs in there. How do you know God is infinitely powerful? Because you heard it in a video or read it in a book? Come on now. This forum is about investigating for one's self. 

Why don't you see Zen masters running around yelling about how they are God and they are the only real thing in existence? Because it's metaphysical speculation. Because it's taking truth at face value instead of knowing it directly. 

Because the truth is silent.

There is no need to make forum posts asking questions if you are living from absolute consciousness. If you are challenging everything, you must also challenge what you currently believe about God. Just sayin'. All beliefs come crashing down in the end. 

[Thought Art]

10 hours ago, OneHandClap said:

A lot of beliefs in there. How do you know God is infinitely powerful? Because you heard it in a video or read it in a book? Come on now. This forum is about investigating for one's self. 

Why don't you see Zen masters running around yelling about how they are God and they are the only real thing in existence? Because it's metaphysical speculation. Because it's taking truth at face value instead of knowing it directly. 

Because the truth is silent.

There is no need to make forum posts asking questions if you are living from absolute consciousness. If you are challenging everything, you must also challenge what you currently believe about God. Just sayin'. All beliefs come crashing down in the end. 

Notice how you are doing exactly what you are accusing me of. You need to question your own beliefs as to why God is not infinitely powerful. IS truth silent? Or is that a belief you have? What layer of truth and at what state and in what context?

"There is no need to make forum posts asking questions if you are living from absolute consciousness. If you are challenging everything, you must also challenge what you currently believe about God. Just sayin'. All beliefs come crashing down in the end."

^You aren't getting what I am saying. There is no point to anything if you are already infinite conciouseness which is the whole paradox of being God. Because, it's indras net you know? Each atom contains in it the potential of infinity the entire universe.

It's not fun talking to someone who says things like "Zen teachers running around yelling etc" because this is a forum where I am questioning my beliefs with you, not yelling at all. Also, Zen is not Leo's teachings and Zen has it's own dogmas and limitations. 

You unconcisouly give your authority to Zen, imo, but not Leo. How do you know anything is true at all? Have you fully completed your inquery? ARE YOU 100% sure Truth is silent and not, say, this present moment with all its noises and sensations? Aren't these just different aspects of the same truth?

I am stepping into a postion of radical not knowing, speaking about Leo's teachings on his own forum. If you can't put that into context then, Idk I am done with this conversation.

Leo's teachings are full of paradox. I am fine with Truth, as long as I get to it. It's going to take some years for me to do so. I have a lot of maturing and work to do as I am prone to making blunders still.

Every school, every teaching, every book, every video, every lecture, every chemical, etc leaves you with only a partial perspective and often they result in seemingly unreconciable paradox. 

This is the nature of this reality as it appears to me. Information is so dense, our inclanation to learn and change so slow and frought with the potential for self deception and error... It's really challenging. There seems to be things which I can't prove or disprove that Leo says to me in these videos and these are things which I can't know if I an interpreting him properly or not or understanding the contexts in which he is speaking.

The Video I linked above is him talking about God Realization... Not Zen.

I won't quit. I will tear down everything until I master life and figure this out. 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Thought Art

[Gesundheit2]

They're just thoughts, bro.