Pickup Express

245 posts in this topic

This thread is not about pickup but the answers found in this thread will help you with pickup:

I like Leo's explanation of what a doormat (nice guy) is and a person who is bigger. Leo says:



"A big person will never compromise on core values out of fear or a desire to please.

The doormat is attached and needy, the big person is detached and indifferent to human bullshit."



People tell me I made progress but I'm nowhere where I want to be. I discovered that I really lack values and principles that flow out of these values. The more I do pickup the more I come face to face with this. 

Last few days I didn't do any pickup. I was very busy and I see across the board problem in my life: lack of spiral dynamics stage blue values. I was already aware of this lack but it becomes clear with everyday. 

Thus to improving my game is an internal struggle, that is, developing spiral dynamics stage blue values. Not only will that improve my game. It will also improve my life across the board

Characteristics of stage blue thinkers

What are the general characteristics of the Blue value system? (with my commentary)

  • Values and norms, discipline, duty, regularity, and feelings of honor and guilt (this is what we need for pickup but also to be successful in life in general)
  • WE versus They Thinking (this is really the pickup mindset, thinking about the interest of your dick first, because women think of their pussy first)
  • Searching for meaning, order, routine and security (when doing game you develop this, what you find important changes, still need to develop good routines in my life though)
  • Self-control, discipline and loyalty to the doctrine and the rules (values over short term interest)
  • Morality (if you want long term relationship with a girl this is important for girls, for short term it is better to have no morals)
  • Obedience based on a sense of duty and a sense of guilt (if you are a guy and you are not doing what you suppose to do you will get these feelings)
  • Organize, manage, concretize and structure (for true learning)
  • Values effort and responsibility and shows discipline

How do you recognize the presence of Blue?

  • Blue is recognized by the clear presence of order and structure. The form of the game is the topic of conversation, not the game itself. In conversations, people will talk more about the rules of the game than the content. (AKA structure versus content)

How do you recognize the absence of Blue?

  • Chaotic. A lack of fixed rules and actions are mainly ad hoc. Many changes of direction prompted by changing life conditions. People are emotionally involved and also express this. Starting-up projects but not finishing them.

What are positive stimuli for Blue? (I was already going this unconscious in game, but I will be more conscious about it)

  • Make SMART agreements
  • Be clear about structure and process
  • Plan, Do, Act and Check. And follow through.
  • Say what you do and do what you say

My previous post about this topic which is a great addition

On 2-6-2021 at 3:19 PM, StarStruck said:

Integrating red/blue

Recently I got the insight about how important spiral dynamics stage red is for pickup. It was thanks to my dreams in which I was a gladiator! Bare with me. Look at these men in the video. Those men in the Roman legions developed balls of steel through all the trails and tribulations they went in life. If they could transfer in time and learn English, do you think they would have approach anxiety? A strong ego is very important, which a person develops at stage red, at stage blue this ability of stage red gets disciplined. To check if you have fully integrated stage red, watch the video below and imagine yourself as a Roman soldier: could you be one if you had to be one? If you can be a man that has fully integrated stage red and blue, you won't have any problems with pickup.

In my opinion, Roman Empire is stage red/blue while the Germanic tribes are stage red. You can see the difference:


Romans use army traditions, formations, have a system of morality while the Germanic tribes are impulsive, heroic and do things for short term gratification and glitz. Germanic tribes are red. Romans are obviously red +  a little blue.

My point is that most guys who lack natural pickup skills, lack integration in red and blue. Recently I think I fully integrated red, I'm really fearless, approach anxiety doesn't exist, the only anxiety I have is that I misuse my masculinity to bother girls or to come across as a caveman. A guy who has fully integrated red and lacks blue will come across as a caveman.

Coincidentally I found this video with similar insights: great mind thinks alike I guess

Summary with my commentary:

  • Ideal man in a brutal world is as follows: a guy like Maximus (a man at the maximum) who has a satisfying combination of the 4 archetypes of Jung
  • One can't be a gentleman without being a man; first you need to be a man before you can be a gentleman; first having a foundation of stage red, before being able to develop stage blue
  • Stage blue(Maximus): sacrificing for higher - transcended - ideals. Corresponds with being paradigm. Having principles and not caring about future outcome. Roman virtues!
  • Stage red(Commodus): manipulating the world and ideals. Sacrificing for wrong and petty things; not sacrificing for principles! Corresponds to doings paradigm. Destroying other people's virtues and destroying people with virtue!
  • Favor of existence spills onto people with integrated stage blue. Men want to be like a man like this. Women want to be with a guy like this. Bad circumstances bring out the character of man! It will test a man's principles!
  • Principles and virtues can die out because of life's hardships, but can also resurrect if fostered or coincidence!
  • People who are in being (from virtues), rather than doing(manipulation), will get favor of life!
  • Commodus lost everything he valued when he died. Maximus gained everything while he died.

Roman virtues that Maximus followed :


Currently I'm not feeling very well about my pickup journey. It is part of the journey. I proved I can do it. I made big leaps out of my comfort zone. I've gone on dates but I haven't got the results I wanted. Still if I compare my game to what I was in the beginning of this thread, I reached milestones.

If anything pickup exposed all my deficiencies, not only as a dude who wants his rocks off, but my deficiencies in general as a human being. My reflexes in the past would have been to look away. It is painful to look at one's deficiencies. I have a lot of emotional pain and confusion, which is good. It means I'm growing. But is not issue.

I asked regular people for advice, and I got dumb struck by the low quality of questions I asked them. I asked them how I could get over my emotional pain and confusion. Asking such questions is like a dude in the gym asking why his muscles hurt. It is really part of the game. It showed me how low consciousness I'm.

In the book Mastery by George Leonard they talk about the keys to mastery:

  1. Good instruction: having a good mentor and good sources to learn
  2. Intentionality: having a clear mind's eye picture of what you want for yourself, how you want to sculpt yourself
  3. Surrendering to the journey: in other words having faith in the outcome and being in the process, letting go of fear so the heart can open
  4. Practise: making routines (which I talked about in above posts)
  5. Seeking the edge: going out of the comfort zone is the only way to grow, this is where the learning happens

Sometimes learning can get muddy. I'm a person who doesn't like to waste time and just sits back and thinks about the perfect strategy. The problem is that life goes on. 3-4 months have past. Perhaps I would have learned more if I just plowed through the mud like the "dumb people". Perhaps I'm not that smart.

This is probably my biggest lesson in this thread so far: I don't think dumb people are smarter than me, they have lower consciousness than me, they just plow through the mud and get across the swamp. Perhaps they didn't cross in the most efficient and effective way but they are getting places. My pickup friend and some people I know who are not very smart but who are successful in business follow this principle of plowing through.

What is the right mindset to plow through the mud? The keys of Mastery by George Leonard gives us a good grasp.

Edited by StarStruck

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If you "hook" a girl and she likes you. You can stop chasing her and she will keep coming back. Blonde girl started hitting me up again after canceling our third date. :)

I did 2 quick approaches on my way to the supermarket. I approached while she was walking and just kept walking with her. The first one bailed out. With the second one I hooked but it turned out she is a Cypriot and she doesn't like my ethnicity. She flat out told me that. I laughed it off and kept talking. The conversation was fun and she will leave town in one week so nothing happened. 

I'm just following the dao. 

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Tempted to write long commentary, but ll keep it short. What you are doing is great. Hiding from life with a shield of "only holy stuff here" is not the way. My journey is similar to yours although even more incelness ? Currently doing not as many approaches, but picking up the momentum. Your commitment towards resolving relation with woman, dating and socialization is inspiring. Keep it up brother ?


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I did one approach today and she liked me a lot but she had a bf. Some notes:

Guy with emotion to a girl is like honey to a bee

The more I opened up and showed emotion. The closer she got to me. At first she was standoffish and towards the end she was all up in my face.

Opening up as a person, showing your upright emotion, (meaning what kind of effect she has on you), is like a flower opening up. If you (as the flower) don't open up, the bee (the girl) can't come to cross pollinate or get nectar. The girl, like the bee, doesn't care about cross pollinating, it only cares about the nectar which for her is the emotion.

Will all girls like your "nectar"? That question is really secondary. As a pickup artist, it is just important to just open up like a flower and do nature do its work, if she likes the smell of your nectar she will come to you. That is really what attraction is. If you are attractive you don't have to push yourself in her face. Just open up like a flower and attraction will do its work.

That is really what emotional connection is really about. There is no forcing. Let chemistry/biology do its thing.

For the record, opening up doesn't mean that you should become a pussy. You still need confidence and have humour (which is a pickup artist's nectar), within this framework you can show other emotions to lure her in.

Walking the road is the destination

She really wanted to give her number but she already has a bf of 2,5 years. It was really not about me getting her number and getting laid. This approach was an experiment: would I be able to get her number? It is not about getting to the destination (getting stuff from her) but about the process of learning.

She really wanted it. I could see it but she said no. Usually I would push and what I noticed is that when I push, she even closes up more and puts her guard up. The way is not really pushing for anything, but just making observations. I told her "I can see in your eyes you want to give me your number". She dropped her resistance. I was really getting close but then her friend came along (that she was waiting for) and it was too late.

Peer pressure

I noticed this more than once. If a girl is waiting for another girl, and you ask her number when her friend is approaching, it is always a no. I mean, she already has a bf, her giving a number to a random guy while her friend is watching her knowing she has a gf is strange. I should have asked about her logistics (how soon her friend was coming) and planned my strategy better.

Not approaching a lot

I really stopped approaching a lot. For me pickup is really exposure therapy. I already got one  girl (blonde with whom I already had 2 dates but she cancelled the third date last week) who is interested in me and she hit me up yesterday. She didn't ask me for a date. She just asked what I was up to after having radio silence for couple of days. I kind of hoped she would but I think she wants me to ask her. She is a shy girl. And I don't want to be the guy that always asks her but I guess she wants to be the submissive "lady" or something.

I'm really focusing on my inner struggle. I see pickup as my outer struggle. But as they say in spirituality, inner and outer is a duality that doesn't exist. But sometimes dualities can be useful, I'm following my intuition and it says that I need to get my shit in order. I'm lazy as fuck, not happy with my productivity and slacking off with sports and other things.

@Vytas thank you, I'm glad that I can motivate others to do the same thing. :)

Edited by StarStruck

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My deep issues

Lack if self love and bad self image is really at the core of my problems. I'm suffering. I feel so depended on this girl. I feel like I'm pulled by my strings.

When she takes some hours to text back I'm just holding my heart, not wanting to be hurt or rejected. I'm so sad to see myself like this in third person. I really need to work on this. 

Holding my heart in my hands

If my heart gets broken my ego tells me to become a hardcore PUA and become ruthless. 

I really try not to hate women. They have something I want. I'm not getting it.  I'm getting hurt and confused. I see total dick heads who are naturals being much more successful with girls. 

Revving while being in idle

That is really how one can describe me. I'm revving while being in idle. 

Last post I type that I don't approach a lot. Today I just approached one girl. And in this post I tell myself girls don't like me? 

Actually a lot of girls like me. I get a lot of "you are so nice" and "you are so sweet". That won't get me in their pants though. I hate when I get compliments like that and more precisely I hate being nice and I don't know how to stop it.

I'm confused, hurt and angry. I need a plan. Probably going to read some red pill books that I planned a while back. 

When I'm nice or when I'm told I'm nice. I feel like my child self who was beaten into being nice. I don't want to be that anymore. I'm going to break lose of that mental prison. 

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One can find reasons to do something. One fan find reasons to not do something. Feelings like horniness are just feelings. Don't be a slave of your feelings. People who are live a miserable life. 

Find the courage. 

Don't waste your valuable energy - too much. 

Your sperm is holy. It can create life. And your body needs a lot of resources to create it. It is a finite source. Be wary on what you want to use it.

I spend a lot of time fapping instead of chasing girls. Porn addiction is close to my heart as a thorn. It hurts. 

Buddhists talk about semen retention and the benefits of it. I don't need to repeat centuries old wisdom. 

On this forum there is a lot of foolishness about semen retention and the benefits of it. I'm not against PMO. Personally I don't want to do it because it is and was a coping mechanism to deal with stress. I'm not against porn, just as a fat guy shouldn't be against chocolate cake, but it would be a wise decision if he stayed away from that chocolate cake for his own good. 

If you can't deal with the stress of having semen in your balls and bust it in a paper tissue, it is OK as long as you are aware what you are doing and the price you are paying. As the stoic say do whatever you like but aware of the costs. 

Sexual energy is raw masculine energy. If you are able to tame that stallion, you will reach outrageous things. 

I'm in the process of taming the stallion. 

Some inspiration:

Edited by StarStruck

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First signs of abundance 

So today I tasted abundance with dating for the first time in my life. Yesterday, the blonde girl (who cancelled our third date) took contact with me and said she wanted to meet on Tuesday. And secondly, that hot Thai girl I met last week, said she wanted to go for a coffee after next week because of her exams and essays.

It is a milestone in my life. It is the first time in my life TWO girls are simultaneously interested in me and want to meet up. It is time to celebrate this.

Girls peaking at me in the gym

I was in the gym today. I saw one girl look at me. At the end of my session I saw another girl looking at me. It seems that girls can smell a guy with confidence, abundant, carefree attitude who has humour.

Eyecontact game is so important. I'm bad at it. I'm bad at it. I'm bad at holding tension. I don't know even what is going on in my head. I noticed that I'm not rested in my head space and that is probably the reason why I can't calm down and hold fucking eye contact. I don't know how I come across but probably I seem like a horny dog who wants to fuck her or kill her. Couldn't even crack a smile at these girls.

Hot girls have a good nose for confident, carefree, present and funny energy in guys

The second one in the gym was reallllly hot blonde, tight luscious perfect body. Just absolute perfection She was eyeing me up but when she saw me not being present, not being able to hold eye contact, she stopped eyeballing me.

It is just scary how good hot girls are good at eyeballing a guy. Especially hot girls, a lot of guys are approaching these girls so they have a good intuition.

Also hot girls like this don't have to do anything. The most they will do is give you eye contact. If you don't take the chance, she will just give another guy a chance. It is a game of the fittest.

I got frustrated how subtle game is, and how I lost the subtle game against her, at the same time it also gave me hope. If I get my inner game straight, I do have a chance with the top shelf girls.

The investments I made in pickup is not even that big, but the rewards are so big.

Approach regret or stupidity?

So last two days I missed 3-4 girls who were eyeballing me. I didn't approach. The reason is this: I'm already out of my comfort zone. I have two girls who are interested in me. The one will meet me tuesday, the other one after next week. This is already a huge deal and I'm afraid of ego backlash.

I already feel like a fish out of water and I feel tense. I need to chill out because there is no danger. I'm trying to get myself but I don't know where this unconscious tenseness comes from. Probably I shouldn't bite more than I can chew. Currently I have two girls in my rotation. I can't handle more. I'm also dealing with nofap and other stuff. I'm fine. Will I be able to allow myself to calm down, take a chill pill, not constantly look for targets to approach and plan things out and just enjoy what I have right now?



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It is tragicomic to see how positive I'm in my last post, and the post before that I was very dark and sinister.

Only shows that how fragile my ego is. I need a stronger ego boundaries. I still have to read that damn book called anti-fragility. 

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Loving means accepting the truth. Loving what is coming at you and loving life will change how you live your life. It is life transformative. 


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It is really a matter of change of perspective. And the only way one can change the perspective is through experiences.

If you experience life and don't deny the truth that those experiences try to tell you you will grow as a person.

What I tried in the past is to think my way through a problem. It really does not works that way, if I stay in the mind space (auto pilot monkey mind) I'm stuck in a strangle loop that is called my static mindset (ego) who tries to stay within the boundaries of my comfort zone.

Growth happens outside the comfort zone.

There is room for thinking/contemplating. Thinking/contemplating should be used to integrate raw experience that one acquires outside the individuals comfort zone.

In that sense, a psychedelic trip and a "pickup trip" are similar. Everything in a sense is just a trip. Life is a trip.

Edited by StarStruck

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 I have two dates set up. It feels great to have abundance. Not having the need to constantly scan for hot girls and thinking about approaching. I like the tranquility and inner rest. Weirdly enough now I get more eye contact than ever though. 

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15 hours ago, StarStruck said:

 I have two dates set up. It feels great to have abundance. Not having the need to constantly scan for hot girls and thinking about approaching. I like the tranquility and inner rest. Weirdly enough now I get more eye contact than ever though. 

At the same time there is also unrest. I want more girls. And I can already tell this is just hedonistic adaption

I can recognize the pattern. I can see the same pattern in all of my addictions. I don't want pickup to become just another addiction. A bottomless pit.. a destiny of discontent and suffering. 

Pickup has become an ego thing for me. The soar thumb called my fragile ego or negative self-image. I'm trying to self-medicate my negative self-image by getting girls. 

I'm getting old. I'm 32. I don't have a lot of time to fuck around like a 22 year old stud. I wish I could be 22 again with the knowledge that I have but that is such an absurd, impossible and unhealthy wish. 

I will give myself to enjoy the fruits of my labor. Although the fruits are not that much. Considering my highly traumatic past it is not bad I guess. 

If anything pickup has given me a broader perspective on things. I'm still fucking around, wasting a lot of time, but it is because of lack of consciousness. That causes me to have such a low elevation negative view on myself. I'm battling with my shadow. That is what really should be my goal: self-actualization, the natural fruits of self-actualization (byproducts) are girls. 

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Bad side of pickup is that I know a lot of girls from my city. Even the girls who rejected me, they recognize on me street and say hi or have some small talk. I really don't like this aspect. I notice that I get needy and cringe and still try to hook them. Damn this neediness (thirsting) is hard to get out of my system. 

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Amazing video that shows how to balance being a dick and a nice guy; finding the right balance between those two polarities by being calibrated.


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Quick two approaches on my way to the supermarket.

First approach: what I could have done differently/better?

  • Opened ad-hoc, verbals were going good, she was more engaged than me, but I was still in the "hooking phase"; I should have moved to "vibing phase": asking names, where she is from, etc
  • I was so overcompensating in the hooking phase that I even fist bumped her shoulder. Previously I told myself to not do this. A lot of girls don't like it when an unknown guy does it. I was just so pumped up. I couldn't help myself.
  • When I asked her to have a smoke together sometime, she told me I was too direct
  • My confidence was good but I was still a little in my head and I need to ditch the nervous smile/laugh.
  • Vibes were good, there was a lot of fun but lack of direction ruined it. She was so feminine. If I was masculine, it would have been a done deal. I lacked direction.
  • In conclusion: this girl was sooo into me but I messed it up. It is good to be excited but fist bumping her shoulder, being over-enthusiastic, doing premature pulls, is not it! 
  • Bottom line: I should have toned tone the emotional spiking when I reached the hook point and proceeded to vibing

Second approach: what I could have done differently/better?

  • This was a shy girl. She was a little stunned and that made me a little stunned. What this tells me is that I need to work on my mental frame and not be so quickly put off balance by a girl.
  • I really need to ditch the nervous smile
  • This approach was too "on script", if I pushed the approach a little bit "off script" it would have gone better. She was in her head and the silliness would have pulled her from there.
  • The problem is that I didn't have a lot of time to work on her. We had some nice moments but she was very much in her head. If I was better at vibing I would have had a better chance.
  • Bottom line: I need to work on vibing. Being relaxed. Have a natural and better flow. Let go of emotional resistance. Be more present and aware.

Summary: I really liked experimenting with higher energy levels. Just being more pumped up, present and grounded in my body gave me two very volatile approaches. The girls were definitely not bored, they liked it, but I guess I was a little bit uncalibrated. To my defence, it is hard to be calibrated when you are doing something new. Especially when I'm approaching with higher energy than usual. It is hard to tame a wild horse.

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Elliot Hulse is a boon and an idiot with an irritating voice but sometime he has some good things to say:

Summary of video: making plan is as important as taking action, save energy and time by having routine plans

Summary: penetrate the feelings (feminine: body) with the mind (masculine: mind), birth happens from darkness/shadow/stillness, become one with darkness/shadow/stillness before "show time", have mental trigger "ahhhh"

Summary: there is no self-control without self-awareness: notice when you are nice guy (don't judge but just observe, note down triggers in body tenseness), have confidence in yourself based on being(acting with trust and faith), don't judge because what you resist persists instead just observe. Let body tenseness go through breathing and loosening up the body.

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Frustration can be used to keep my old patterns. Or frustration can be used to create new patterns. It all starts in the brain and thinking patterns. There is where the ignition happens. I need to have patience. First and foremost I need to finish my no fap journey. 

I got some good advice here:

But people don't seem to understand my struggle. I do get it though. It is hard to understand. 

Edited by StarStruck

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On 31/05/2021 at 7:23 PM, StarStruck said:

So I had a real nice conversation and flirtation with the blondie from the gym.

When you talk to a girl in my gym, its over :D Everyone in there with headphones ready to jump each other. 

Like that you approach people on your way home, do you just stop and say hello ? Big city?

Stage Yellow Health Hacks -->


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20 hours ago, StarStruck said:

Let body tenseness go through breathing and loosening up the body.


Amen. You got it. People try to manipulate with their mind all the time and its devils work. Rooting yourself and being authentic is where real life can flourish. But youll find girls are the same too, they too manipulate from their minds like crazy - rare to find rooted peepz in the west

Stage Yellow Health Hacks -->


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On 18/06/2021 at 2:36 PM, StarStruck said:

She canceled our third date few hours before it would happen. 

She says: "do you want to meet another time? I'm very tired, hot from the weather, and sick. I'm afraid I won't be cheerful with you today. :("


Hmmz. I'm so disappointed. I was looking forward to this date. 

Perhaps she is as nervous as me. I think she likes me. I could see her emotions last time. But part of me says she is just not going to see me again. 

I'm so tired of disappointment. I so want to stop. It just drains my energy too much. 

I feel like the universe is against me. 

She did the same thing AGAIN after her taking initiative  to reschedule the third date. 

Last time she was sick. This time she got invited for a job interview. She says she has to cancel. Man, fuck this shit. 

I'm only getting disappointed. I'm giving up. I really got enough of this shit. It is just not working out. The universe is against me. 

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