Sam Vaknin on Obama’s narcissism

[Lindsay]

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Lindsay

[Hardkill]

33 minutes ago, Lindsay said:

 

I remember reading on this one too from Sam Vaknin. Yes, Obama has somewhat above average amount of narcissism. After all, he has always been a typical politician who has grandiose beliefs of himself and of course extreme levels of ambition for power, fame, money, and adulation. However, I believe and I think that most mental health experts would say that Obama has genuine empathy and compassionate for others. Also, he’s not as manipulative like many other politicians such as Joe Manchin and Donald Trump and most of the GOP politicians are. He also, not once ever caused any scandal. He’s certainly not perfect by any means and some of his decisions did end up causing the lost of some lives in foreign places such as Afghanistan. However, I believe that has always been an honorable man. 

[Lindsay]

@Hardkill don’t hate me I don’t want to be paranoid or ignorant. I have trust issues. I wonder if the right wingers are right and the conspiracy theories have substance. Not Q. I’m talking about Russia and China pulling the strings. Sam Vaknin made a post in Russian and I got all freaked out. I got all freaked out when Leo mentioned he was Russian. Like I’m infected with that fear of communism. What do I do about it? Lol 

[Carl-Richard]

3 minutes ago, Lindsay said:

@Hardkill don’t hate me I don’t want to be paranoid or ignorant. I have trust issues. I wonder if the right wingers are right and the conspiracy theories have substance. Not Q. I’m talking about Russia and China pulling the strings. Sam Vaknin made a post in Russian and I got all freaked out. I got all freaked out when Leo mentioned he was Russian. Like I’m infected with that fear of communism. What do I do about it? Lol 

Why fear what you can't control?

Btw, there is a tendency to conflate positive aspects like high charisma and confidence with negative aspects like narcisissm.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[commie]

People aren't afraid of spiders or snake because they can control them...

4 minutes ago, Lindsay said:

I’m talking about Russia and China pulling the strings. Sam Vaknin made a post in Russian and I got all freaked out. I got all freaked out when Leo mentioned he was Russian. Like I’m infected with that fear of communism. What do I do about it? Lol 

Is your landlord Russian? If not, you have nothing to fear from Russians.

[Boethius]

There is a reason why psychologists (before the 45th president) were deeply wary of "diagnosing" politicians with various conditions like narcissism. For example, isn't the idea of American exceptionalism in itself rather narcissistic? And so does that mean that a politician who can speak to American exceptionalism in a particularly charismatic way is themself narcissistic?

For me the takeaway is that I don't think we should be comparing politicians against members of the general populace but against other politicians. I would argue that Obama compares favorably to Bill Clinton and George W. Bush (to say nothing of how he compares to the 45th).

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, Boethius said:

There is a reason why psychologists (before the 45th president) were deeply wary of "diagnosing" politicians with various conditions like narcissism. For example, isn't the idea of American exceptionalism in itself rather narcissistic? And so does that mean that a politician who can speak to American exceptionalism in a particularly charismatic way is themself narcissistic?

For me the takeaway is that I don't think we should be comparing politicians against members of the general populace but against other politicians. I would argue that Obama compares favorably to Bill Clinton and George W. Bush (to say nothing of how he compares to the 45th).

You're conflating group level and individual level analysis. Personality traits are individual traits that are generalized across different contexts. Political ideology is group- and context-specific.

Narcisissm is on a spectrum. Individuals with traits like high confidence, charm and charisma may score higher on the narcissism than somebody low in those traits, but you have to see it in combination with the other traits (lack of empathy etc.). This is the difference between somebody like Obama and Trump.

[Boethius]

@Carl-Richard I agree, of course, that empathy divides Obama and Trump. I guess what I'm trying to express is that there is (as I understand it) a difference between

(a) the personality trait known as narcissism and
(b) narcissistic personality disorder

I doubt most presidents aside from Trump could be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder, even as many of them may well score highly on narcissism as a trait. Personally I don't view it as a problem that the average politician scores highly on the narcissism spectrum relative to the general population since they are representing a country that can be said to be rather "narcissistic" in nature. Or at least, it's not a problem so long as we continue to support the "myth" of American exceptionalism.

[Lindsay]

@commie my new landlord is middle eastern. Again don’t hate me but yes I’m afraid I just got scammed. 

[commie]

Why would I hate you? Did you ever do harm to me or mine? Are you going around calling for lynchings or something?

What is this scam you're afraid you fell for?

You say you work too hard for a boss who doesn't pay you enough, and that you pay your landlord too much. But that's not a scam, is it? Nothing about that is hidden. That's simply how this society works.

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Boethius said:

@Carl-Richard I agree, of course, that empathy divides Obama and Trump. I guess what I'm trying to express is that there is (as I understand it) a difference between

(a) the personality trait known as narcissism and
(b) narcissistic personality disorder

I doubt most presidents aside from Trump could be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder, even as many of them may well score highly on narcissism as a trait. Personally I don't view it as a problem that the average politician scores highly on the narcissism spectrum relative to the general population since they are representing a country that can be said to be rather "narcissistic" in nature. Or at least, it's not a problem so long as we continue to support the "myth" of American exceptionalism.

A personality disorder is generally defined as when a specific trait starts having a detrimental impact on your life. The way that is determined may seem highly subjective, but there might exist some specific ways to measure that aswell (I'll get back to you in a month or so when my professor has given a lecture about it ). Regardless, people with NPD will of course score high on trait narcissism, but high trait narcissism doesn't necessarily mean you have NPD. 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Lindsay]

3 hours ago, commie said:

Why would I hate you? Did you ever do harm to me or mine? Are you going around calling for lynchings or something?

What is this scam you're afraid you fell for?

You say you work too hard for a boss who doesn't pay you enough, and that you pay your landlord too much. But that's not a scam, is it? Nothing about that is hidden. That's simply how this society works.

I’m moving and everything was done thru a rental app and I paid the rent and deposit but never got the keys yet. And it worries me that I never met with a human being. And I have a fear instilled in me with Muslim names. I’m ashamed but if I’m honest yes I’m more scared of Muslim names than I am of American names. 

[commie]

It simply hadn't occured to me you might be moving!

Well, everyone tries desperately to guess how trustworthy other people are using whatever signs we can. Nothing to be ashamed of. I'd be much more concerned about discrimination against tenants who appear Muslims than against landlords.

When it comes to leases, I like to meet people but I guess I'm getting old. I hope thing app thing works out for you in the end.

Edited February 7, 2021 by commie

[GreenLight]

I remember a programm where they interviewed this guy about different levels of narcissism. They placed different famous people on this scale. Guess who was on top of it all? This guy.

I however do not remember where to find this episode 

[Lindsay]

Gaps in memory. I had a woke ass 8th grade teacher and he made the school year special and I miss him. Leo ♌️ reminded me of the teacher I once trusted. Abandonment sucks. But we are all in the hall of mirrors or In The realm of hungry ghosts. 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Lindsay