Narcissistic Abusive Personalities

[Preety_India]

 

 

TIMDAD16AUGROOM

1621
1622 Q: Way too much?
1623
1624 A: Way, way, way, way too...
1625
1626 Q: Did he ever discuss with you any of those issues?
1627
1628 A: I mean a little, I mean I didn’t know about the bankruptcy or any of that ‘til I
1629 read on the newspaper about that but he just - he - I think he was really
1630 frustrated with the situation. Um, he told me, he’s like, “You know, I feel like
1631 my paycheck goes in my bank account and I just watch it go like this,” he’s
1632 like, “But it doesn’t have to,” he’s like, “She makes it like that.” And I was
1633 just like...
1634
1635 Q: So was he resentful for that?
1636
1637 A: I don’t know if he was resentful, I just think he was frustrated by the fact that
1638 they could be doing a lot better financially and she -- from the vibe that I got -
1639 - had really bad spending habits.
1640
1641 Q: So she was a spender. Um, the car hers or his?
1642
1643 A: I think it’s hers.
1644
1645 Q: Okay.
1646
1647 A: I’m pretty sure that that’s hers.
1648
1649 Q: Do you know what other car they might have?
1650
1651 A: Well I mean his APC pickup truck.
1652
1653 Q: And that’s - that...
1654
1655 A: That’s it I think.
1656
1657 Q: ...and that’s owned by Anadarko though, right?
1658
1659 A: Yeah.
1660
1661 Q: So...
1662
1663 A: But so I don’t - I don’t think they own any other vehicles as far as I know. I
1664 think it’s just that thing.

1666 Q: And - and - and Anadarko who doesn’t allow him to drive that on his own
1667 personal, right?
1668
1669 A: No. No.
1670
1671 Q: So he’s just got one vehicle...
1672
1673 A: Yeah.
1674
1675 Q: ...um, and it’s a very expensive Lexus. Um, and then they live in a pretty
1676 expensive house, I...
1677
1678 A: It’s a huge house.
1679
1680 Q: Yeah. Yeah.
1681
1682 A: I was very taken back, when I saw it I was just like whoa, how do you guys...
1683
1684 Q: And then the fixtures inside caused you to pause...
1685
1686 A: Everything. Everything was just like...
1687
1688 Q: And you mentioned today you read something about, uh, bankruptcy...
1689
1690 A: Yeah.
1691
1692 Q: ...what did you read?
1693
1694 A: That those guys filed bankruptcy for a lot of money and...
1695
1696 Q: Who are those guys?
1697
1698 A: Two tho- that couple.
1699
1700 Q: Okay.
1701
1702 A: In 2015. Oh Shanann and Chris...
1703
1704 Q: Thanks.
1705
1706 A: ...filed bankruptcy in 2015.
1707
1708 Q: Okay. And you said for a lot of money, do you recall the amount?
1709
1710 A: No because it was different in each of the newspapers and I don’t know which

1711 one to believe so...
1712
1713 Q: Okay.
1714
1715 A: Hundreds of thousands of dollars. So, um, yeah I didn’t know that.
1716
1717 Q: So let’s go just back though, him and the financial, he tells you - or he has a
1718 concern enough to at least express some con- something to you that he’s
1719 frustrated with the way she spends or he’s upset with working so hard and
1720 never having any money and she’s kind of the responsibility, she’s the
1721 responsible party for spending most of the money?
1722
1723 A: I - I pretty much got that vibe. I mean he just told me, he’s like, “We’re house
1724 broke all the time.” And I was just like, “That’s unfortunate,” and I asked him,
1725 I was like, “Do you have 401K,” and he was like, “Yeah.” And I mean the
1726 reason I ask him this is because if I get in a relationship with somebody I want
1727 to know like what kind of baggage that they have, I think that’s important if I
1728 walk into a situation where I’m like hey I have good credit and I have all of
1729 these things that I’ve been building and you don’t have your stuff together like
1730 what are we gonna do with this. And it’s important for your - your long term
1731 thing.
1732
1733 Q1: You’re smart.
1734
1735 A: So I’m preparing. And so I just asked him, I was like, “Well do you have
1736 401K?” And he was like - he’s like, “Yeah I do have that.” And then I asked
1737 him, I was like, um, I - I didn’t ask him like how much that they had or
1738 anything but I just said, “Is your lifestyle sustainable?” And he was like,
1739 “No.”
1740
1741 Q: Okay.
1742
1743 A: And I was like, “How long do you think that’s gonna take?” He’s like, “I
1744 don’t know but it’s not sustainable.”
1745
1746 Q1: Where did his girls go to school?
1747
1748 A: I don’t know. He never actually told me, like when I gave - I asked him once,
1749 it was like when I was trying to find him an apartment I was like, “Are you
1750 comfortable telling me where your girls go to school,” that’s in the text too, I
1751 was like, “So I can figure out what distance from the apartment it is.” I was
1752 trying to just make his life convenient with like him, his ex, his kids and all
1753 the stuff that he needs to do and work. Um, and he was like, “Don’t worry
1754 about it, their school is pretty centrally located so anywhere in the area that we
1755 were discussing will be fine.” And he just left it at that. So he didn’t even tell

1756 me which was fine, I respect that.
1757
1758 Q: Daycare is obviously very expensive for a 2 and - 3 and 5 year old.
1759
1760 A: Oh yeah.
1761
1762 Q: Right. So...
1763
1764 A: I understand.
1765
1766 Q: ...did he ever bring, uh, any - did he ever discuss that?
1767
1768 A: Never.
1769
1770 Q: Okay.
1771
1772 A: Never. Um - uh, like the only - like I said, the only financial thing he ever said
1773 is just like, “She just likes to spend money. Like a lot of it.”
1774
1775 Q: Okay.
1776
1777 A: So that was just kind of the vibe that I got from that and that it was just - it
1778 was a lifestyle that she liked to live, like very like materialistic kind of
1779 lifestyle. Like it was...
1780
1781 Q: Wanted to project a certain image...
1782
1783 A: Yes. All the time. And he said that that was why they got that house too, he’s
1784 like, “She wants everybody to think that we live a certain way and that we can
1785 like sustain all this stuff,” and he’s like, “And we can’t.” And I told him, I
1786 said, “When you’re in those situations why don’t you,” I’m like, “Do you - do
1787 you like voice your concern about this?” And he told me, he’s like, “When I
1788 try to talk to her,” he’s like, “She’s really bossy and she usually shuts me out,” 
1789 and he’s like, “When she does that,” he’s like, “I just let it go.” And I was just
1790 like, “All right,” I mean I don’t - I don’t try to like interfere with how those
1791 two interact. But I didn’t ask about it ‘cause I’m just curious ‘cause I would
1792 never put myself in a situation where someone was like, “You know what,
1793 we’re gonna live in this house that cost like double what we can afford and
1794 that’s how it’s gonna be ‘cause I want everybody to think we’re fancy.” 
1795 ‘Cause I wouldn’t do that. I mean to me like I wouldn’t put up with somebody
1796 doing that to me, and I’m not saying that that’s what she was doing. I mean
1797 for all I know he could’ve been completely lying about this, he could be the
1798 one spending all the money.
1799
1800 Q: Sure.

1801
1802 A: You know?
1803
1804 Q: This is just what he told you.
1805
1806 A: Exactly. So I mean that’s as far as I can interrupt it so I can’t be like, “Well oh
1807 she needs to do this and she needs to do that,” but he - he, you know, he just -
1808 he voiced his concern where it’s just like, “Financially I’m in a very bad spot
1809 that I...
1810
1811 Q: Okay.
1812
1813 A: ...don’t need to be in but I’m stuck in,” and that was kind of where he was at.
1814 So - but I mean he was never like mean when he talked about her, he was
1815 never hostile, like nothing like that. He just - I mean very calmly like this is
1816 the situation and I think the only reason that he even provided me with that
1817 information is because I asked.
1818
1819 Q: Okay. You said something, um, about her being controlling or...
1820
1821 A: Bossy.
1822
1823 Q: ...bossy...
1824
1825 A: That’s what he said, bossy.
1826
1827 Q: ...um, in like a lot of aspects of their life or what - do you know exactly what
1828 he meant by that, how that affected him?
1829
1830 A: I think he was just saying when he voices his opinion it’s not heard, is - is the
1831 gist of that. Which I thought from what it sounded like from their separation
1832 from them trying to separate that that was a big deal for him where he was
1833 saying that the reason that they don’t really get along anymore is because he
1834 feels like he’s not heard.
1835
1836 Q: Okay.
1837
1838 A: He says that he, you know, he comes home from work and he tries to talk to
1839 her and she’ll just be like, “One minute, I’m on the phone.” Or she’ll like
1840 scroll through social media and she like doesn’t acknowledge him. And, um,
1841 he said that he had addressed it with her a few times and their calm, he said
1842 they don’t really fight, like they don’t scream and yell. Um, and he said he had
1843 addressed it with her a few times and he said it just fell on deaf ears, he’s like,
1844 “She just seems like she’s not interested anymore,” and I think it made him
1845 sad because I mean he was like all about his kids and he seemed like he was

1846 trying to be all about her but it just wasn’t reciprocated and I think at that
1847 point he was just like I don’t - that it’s just they just kind of like fell apart.
1848
1849 Q: Okay.
1850
1851 A: Just kind of drifted apart. But it was...
1852
1853 Q: Was that your wor- was that your words or his?
1854
1855 A: What, that they...
1856
1857 Q: Fell apart.
1858
1859 A: That - I - those are mine.
1860
1861 Q: Okay.
1862
1863 A: Those are mine. He just said that they didn’t communicate very well. And it
1864 wasn’t in a - like a aggressive way communicate, it was just the fact that they
1865 didn’t like communicate at all.
1866
1867 Q: They just...
1868
1869 A: They didn’t talk.
1870
1871 Q: And they had children and they - did - did - do - was there ever mention that
1872 he was trying to resolve or, uh, save his marriage to - for the children’s sake?
1873 Yo- a lot of people talk...
1874
1875 A: Yes.
1876
1877 Q: ...about that, did he talk about that?
1878
1879 A: Yes. I mean he told me that he believed that the only reason that those two
1880 had still been doin’ it as long as they’ve been doing - ‘cau- he told me that her
1881 and him have had communication issues for about six years where she just
1882 seems really like detached and uninterested in like trying to like build
1883 something with him. Um, and he said - and I said, “Six years is a really long
1884 time for you guys to not fix that,” considering they were married for what,
1885 eight? I mean that’s like the majority of their marriage. And he said, um,
1886 “Sometimes I think we just do it for the kids,” or something like that. I mean
1887 it’s been a long time since I’ve seen...
1888
1889 Q: Sure.

1891 A: ...these conversations so I don’t know like verbatim but...
1892
1893 Q: And that’s - we’re trying...
1894
1895 A: ...it was pretty much just like...
1896
1897 Q: ...get you to remember sometimes.
1898
1899 A: Yeah like but he said it wasn’t just him though, he was like - I think she does
1900 that too...
1901
1902 Q: Okay.
1903
1904 A: ...you know, I mean and it was like this equal part where they are just kind of
1905 like goin’ through the motions I think.
1906
1907 Q: Mm-hm.
1908
1909 A: And so like when he told me that she was cool with like the 50% everything
1910 and just like breakin’ it off and being really civil about it it - it kind of made
1911 sense to me ‘cause I was like the way he made this sound it wasn’t oh she’s
1912 this horrible person or oh I’m this horrible person, it was, “Her and I have
1913 drifted so far apart that it’s kind of a mutual agreement that this is not gonna
1914 work.”
1915
1916 Q: So in those six years though they had two children...
1917
1918 A: Yep.
1919
1920 Q: ...um, and you said earlier you did not know she was pregnant until reading
1921 the newspaper...
1922
1923 A: Yep.
1924
1925 Q: ...so, um, that never came up in any conversation...
1926
1927 A: Never.
1928
1929 Q: ...um, there was no - no indications that that was going on...
1930
1931 A: None.
1932
1933 Q: ...um, he never hinted to anything like that?
1934
1935 A: Nothing.

1936
1937 Q: As far as you knew, um, he was just leading her, he had two children and, um,
1938 that was the final take on that?
1939
1940 A: Yes.
1941
1942 Q: Okay.
1943
1944 A: I think - I know why he lied to me, he lied to me because if I’d have known
1945 that he had a child on the way I would have never wasted my time with him in
1946 the first place, like none of this would have ever even occurred if he would
1947 have just told me the truth.
1948
1949 Q: So do you think if he found out that you, um - if, let’s say this week you guys
1950 were to go look at some apartments -- and this is hypothetical -- but you, um,
1951 you’ve never found out that his wife was pregnant, would - would that have
1952 changed anything? Uh, like you just said, “If I knew he was - his wife was
1953 pregnant I wouldn’t be in this picture,” so if his wife was not pregnant, um,
1954 and forgive me but if - if he takes her out of the picture you’re never gonna
1955 know that she was pregnant, right?
1956
1957 A: What do you mean takes her out of the picture, like...
1958
1959 Q: If - if he murdered her she’s out of the picture, you’re never gonna know if
1960 she was pregnant. If he can get away with murder you’re not gonna - I got
1961 divorced from my wife...
1962
1963 A1: Wait...
1964
1965 Q: You said - do you understand what I’m saying here? If - if she’s gone...
1966
1967 A: But this...
1968
1969 A1: Don’t lead.
1970
1971 Q: Hypothetically...
1972
1973 A1: Please. Don’t lead on.
1974
1975 Q: Yeah hypothetically if she...
1976
1977 A1: Okay.
1978
1979 Q: ...you understand where I’m going? If you didn’t know...

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

 

TIMDAD16AUGROOM

 

1981 A1: Right but you’re - you’re leading...
1982
1983 Q: Okay.
1984
1985 A1: ...into questions that are nothing with your...
1986
1987 Q: If you didn’t know though...
1988
1989 A1: Wait Nic.
1990
1991 Q: ...that she was there...
1992
1993 A1: Did you hear what I said?
1994
1995 Q: I’m not - I’m following you, I just want her to answer a question that relates to
1996 she said something that’s important that if he didn’t have a child on the way
1997 sh- or if he didn’t - if she didn’t know that she would’ve continued the
1998 relationship, right?
1999
2000 A: But he killed his kids. At what point does he think that I’m gonna be in a
2001 relationship?
2002
2003 Q: I’m not t- I’m not talkin’ about the children. I’m just talking specifically about
2004 her. If i- and if - if you only knew - if the kids were still here and he called
2005 you and said, “I’m divorced from my wife,” and he gets away with this - do
2006 you understand what I’m thinking, from his aspect?
2007
2008 A: I still wouldn’t do it. I still wouldn’t do it, ‘cause I’d be like, “Where did she
2009 go?”
2010
2011 Q: Okay.
2012
2013 A: Because I’m under the impression that she’s a really good mom. Like, he
2014 never bashed her moming skills. Like, he - no. S- no. I wouldn’t - no.
2015
2016 Q: Okay.
2017
2018 A: No.
2019
2020 Q: And that’s - that - you see where I’m tryin’ to take that?
2021
2022 A: Yes.
2023
2024 Q: So he never - you guys never had a conversation about the child, period?

2026 A: I didn’t know.
2027
2028 Q: Okay.
2029
2030 A: At all.
2031
2032 Q: All right. And, by your words, if you did know, you would’ve ended the
2033 relationship?
2034
2035 A: Well, because it wouldn’t of made sense to me. That he’s, like, “I’m getting
2036 separated. Oh, by the way, I have a baby on the way.” It’s, like...
2037
2038 Q: That’s 15 weeks.
2039
2040 A: “...You are a liar. You’re just tryin’ to sleep with me.” That’s what I would’ve
2041 probably interpreted that as, and I’d a just shut that off at work, and that
2042 would’ve been the end of it.
2043
2044 Q: Okay. Um, all right. We can move past that. Um, the week that he comes back
2045 from North Carolina, you - you don’t remember, somewhere in the first
2046 couple weeks of August?
2047
2048 A: Yeah. I think it was the second week, but I don’t remember...
2049
2050 Q: Okay.
2051
2052 A: ...off the top of my head.
2053
2054 Q: So we’ll just use August as a timeframe. Is that fair? Because you know...
2055
2056 A: Mm-hm.
2057
2058 Q: ...he left in July, and he comes back in August. How many times do you think
2059 you see him?
2060
2061 A: I saw him a few times. I saw him this past Saturday. I saw him the Wednesday
2062 before that. And he wanted to see me more. I was the one who wanted my
2063 space. I was, like, “Nope. Your kids are home. Go hang out with your kids.” 
2064 And even on Wednesday, I cut it short. Like, he came and hang out with me
2065 for a few hours and then I was, like, “Go chill with your kids.”
2066
2067 Q: Okay.
2068
2069 A: Um, I was always, like, really respectful of his kids.

2071 Q: Do you know, specifically, where you guys me- went? Did you meet at your
2072 hours? Did you guys go to, uh, any restaurants? Did you go to establishments?
2073 Where’d you go?
2074
2075 A: Um, last Wednesday he came to my house and this past Saturday, we went to,
2076 um - what is the name of that bar that we used to go to? It’s not the same - The
2077 Lazy Dog, but it’s the one off of 144th and I-25. I think it’s 144th. Up there.
2078
2079 Q: And it’s The Lazy Dog?
2080
2081 A: Yes.
2082
2083 Q: Um, did he ever mention a Rocky’s game that night?
2084
2085 A: Um, no. I don’t think so. But there was a - there was a, um - the Broncos were
2086 playing.
2087
2088 Q: Okay.
2089
2090 A: Which we couldn’t see, ‘cause they sat us in really crappy spots. But it’s okay,
2091 ‘cause it’s pre-season. But, um...
2092
2093 Q: So you we- do you recall what time you went there?
2094
2095 A: Hm, no. I remember - well, kind of. So he had to get a babysitter that night.
2096
2097 Q: Do you know who that was?
2098
2099 A: Uh, somebody who’s really young. I remember I asked him who his babysitter
2100 was, and he’s, like, “We have two. This girl’s only 17, but the other one’s out
2101 of town. So this girl’s gonna stay, and she doesn’t do overnights. So I gotta be
2102 back by 10:00.”
2103
2104 Q: Okay.
2105
2106 A: And I remember her sayin’ that, and him sayin’ that. And I - I don’t know
2107 what time he got to my house. It was between I want to say, like, 5:30. It
2108 might’ve been 5:00, but I don’t think so. ‘Cause I think the babysitter, if I
2109 remember correctly, showed up at, like, 4:30 or something and he was, like, “I
2110 want to spend time getting my kids acclimated to her. And then I will come.”
2111
2112 Q: So her chi- his children didn’t even know her?
2113
2114 A: Oh, no. They knew her, but he was saying, like, he likes to, like, stay there for
2115 a little while. While - he doesn’t just, like, walk out the door...

2116
2117 Q: Okay.
2118
2119 A: ...when they show up. It’s, like, a transitional thing. And so, um, that’s why
2120 I’m sayin’ I don’t know how long that was. I want to say, like, 5:30. And then
2121 he had to be back by 10:00, so he left at, like, 9:00-somethin’ to be back by
2122 10:00.
2123
2124 ((Crosstalk))
2125
2126 Q: So how did he show up? What was he driving?
2127
2128 A: No. He didn’t pick me up. He came to my house. We drove my truck.
2129
2130 Q: Okay. So you - he gets to your house. You know what he was driving to get to
2131 your house?
2132
2133 A: Um, off the top of my head, I don’t remember. Um, h- I’m pretty sure he
2134 usually drives that Lexus, but he doesn’t always park it in my complex, ‘cause
2135 the parking - there’s not good spaces. So where you guys picked me up at, a
2136 lot of times he’ll just park out there, because there’s room.
2137
2138 Q: Okay.
2139
2140 A: Um, so that kinda works so that he’s - ‘cause there’s just not a lot of room in
2141 my apartment complex. Um, but off the top of my head, I don’t know what he
2142 was driving.
2143
2144 Q: What kinda truck do you drive?
2145
2146 A: I drive a, uh, Toyota 4 Runner.
2147
2148 Q: Okay. So you guys take your 4 Runner to The Lazy Dog?
2149
2150 A: Yep.
2151
2152 Q: And you said they sat you in crappy location? And where...
2153
2154 ((Crosstalk))
2155
2156 A: It just...
2157
2158 Q: Where were you put inside the bar?
2159
2160 A: We were - when you walk in, you just hang a right and we were, like, one of

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

 

 

TIMDAD16AUGROOM

2161 the first two booths on the right, when you walk in the door.
2162
2163 Q: Okay.
2164
2165 A: You just - it’s just not a good - it’s a good spot, but just not for the TVs. And
2166 we actually went to the other Lazy Dog. We went to the one that you and me
2167 go to. Where’s that at? Federal and 100...
2168
2169 A1: 20th.
2170
2171 A: It’s 120th and Federal, and we went there, and they have a different menu.
2172 And I was, like, “I don’t want to eat this food. So we should go to the other
2173 one.”
2174
2175 Q: So initially you go to the 120th location?
2176
2177 A: Yes.
2178
2179 Q: Did you actually...
2180
2181 A: And...
2182
2183 Q: ...get seated?
2184
2185 A: Uh, kinda, sorta. They were, like, cleaning off a table and we were standing
2186 there, just kinda lookin’ at the beer menu and the food menu, and I was, like,
2187 “I don’t want this.” And he - and so we left.
2188
2189 Q: Six o’clock?
2190
2191 A: Probably somewhere around there. 6:00, 6:30. And then we left and went to
2192 the other one, and we ate dinner.
2193
2194 Q: All right. And you were in the first or second booth, right...
2195
2196 A: Ah-huh.
2197
2198 Q: ...to the right of the door?
2199
2200 A: Ah-huh.
2201
2202 Q: I’m just askin’, ‘cause if they have video, we want to be able to verify that.
2203
2204 A: Ah-huh.

2206 Q: So that’s why it’s important.
2207
2208 A: Ah-huh.
2209
2210 Q: Um, and you were there for how long?
2211
2212 A: Uh, I don’t know. Probably - we didn’t stay for dessert, so I don’t know. How
2213 long’s the restaurant take? Like, an hour-and-a-half?
2214
2215 ((Crosstalk))
2216
2217 Q1: I don’t know.
2218
2219 Q: I’ve never been to The Lazy Dog.
2220
2221 A: I don’t know. Probably about an hour-and-a-half, and then, uh, we went back
2222 to my house for a little bit. Hung out at my house, um, for a little while, and
2223 then he had to leave. And then he left.
2224
2225 Q: Do you recall what time he left?
2226
2227 A: Off the top of my head, no. I remember he was, like, gonna be late to be back
2228 at 10:00. I think there’s a text message where he starts texting me when he’s
2229 home at his house.
2230
2231 Q: Okay.
2232
2233 A: So you can probably figure that out. And I remember th- I texted him back
2234 and I was, like, “Damn, that was quick.” Or “Wow, that was really quick.” 
2235 He’s, like, “Yeah, I even had time to stop at the ATM,” or “Stop at the gas
2236 station.” Stop somewhere to get money to pay the babysitter.
2237
2238 Q: Okay.
2239
2240 A: Um, and I was just, like, thinkin’, like, “Whoa, that was really fast.” Um, but I
2241 think he was still, like, a little late coming back, but nothing too drastic. So he
2242 probably left my house, like, somewhere around 9:30-ish.
2243
2244 Q: All right. And you n- he goes straight home. He texts you. Um...
2245
2246 A: Well, I was already home.
2247
2248 Q: Right. No, he text you. He goes straight home from your house and he texts
2249 you that he’s home?

2251 A: Mm-hm.
2252
2253 Q: So that should be in your text messages.
2254
2255 A: Uh - uh, it should be. I’m pretty positive that was not a phone call. I’m almost
2256 positive that was a text. Sometimes I get them flip-flopped, or I don’t
2257 remember, but sometimes I know. I’m pretty sure that one was a text.
2258
2259 Q: Saturday, during your dinner, um, what - what kinda conversation did you
2260 guys have?
2261
2262 A: Uh, I don’t even remember. Oh. I, uh - so he’s been tryin’ to, like, eat a little
2263 healthier than he normally does. And he’s always, like, been in the workin’ 
2264 out since I knew him and he, like, tries to eat clean. But he was tryin’ to, like,
2265 step it up a little bit. And nothing like the people who do, like, the
2266 competitions and the shows that are all super restrictive. I mean, it was nothin’ 
2267 like that. It’s just, like, day-to-day general maintenance, but it’s how I eat and
2268 it’s pretty healthy. And, um, he’s been losin’ a lot of weight. He lost I want to
2269 say, like, 13 pounds in the time that we were hangin’ out. And, honestly, when
2270 you start eatin’ a little bit cleaner and you start workin’ out a little bit harder,
2271 the first couple months - especially for a man, ‘cause they lose weight faster -
2272 it’s not something that’s, like, that drastic, to me, but it did stand out that it
2273 was, like, a little much. And so I was, like, “Whoa. Like, maybe you’re not
2274 eating enough macro nutrients. So let me look at them.” So he had been
2275 working on his My Fitness Pal app and, like, programming, like, all the stuff
2276 he eats. And I just started going through them and I was, like, tryin’ to figure
2277 out, like, where his ratios were wrong. We actually spent a lot of time doing
2278 that, ‘cause he had asked me to do it for him. Um, because I just was at the
2279 point where I was, like, if his weight loss slows down in a few weeks, he’ll be
2280 fine. And if it doesn’t, then his macros are a little off. It’s not, like, that big of
2281 a deal, like, in the workout community. This is, like, a very normal thing, but I
2282 just...
2283
2284 Q: Did you have any other outside concerns? Like, potential drug use? Alcohol
2285 use? Any of that stuff that - that led you do go, “Hey, he’s lost an extreme
2286 amount of weight in such a short period of time”?
2287
2288 A: No, and I wouldn’t call it extreme. It was just, like - it w- it was - it was a lot
2289 but, I mean, I - when I first started workin’ out, I dropped, like, 12 pounds in
2290 two weeks. When I first, first started, like, hittin’ it hard with the diet. So the
2291 fact that he lost, like, that much weight, it wasn’t - like I said, it was - it was
2292 not a surprising amount. I just didn’t want it to be, like, a sustained amount.
2293 But no, I didn’t think anything weird of it just because of, like, how
2294 interknitted I am with the, like, workout community and I know, like, this is
2295 possible. But it just - he - the thing that concerned me about it, I guess - and it

2296 wasn’t even concern, but the thing that, like, kinda red-lighted me, like, “Hey,
2297 this might be con- carrying on,” is the fact that his macros were, like, pretty
2298 dialed in. Like, I had wrote them and he, like, didn’t stay exactly on them, but
2299 his calorie intake was about where it needed to be. My experience, anyways,
2300 for, like, what he was trying to achieve. And so I don’t know. He didn’t seem
2301 to have a problem with it. He liked where he was at with all of that.
2302
2303 Q: So that was your main conversation Saturday?
2304
2305 A: That was, like, a big chunk while we were there. Is, like, us actually going
2306 through - ‘cause I was, like, going through each item. Like, “Why do you have
2307 - why are your ratios off?”
2308
2309 ((Crosstalk))
2310
2311 Q: Do you know where his kids or wife were that night?
2312
2313 A: On Saturday?
2314
2315 Q: Yeah. His ki- well, you know his kids are with the babysitter. Do you know
2316 where his wife is?
2317
2318 A: She’s in Arizona.
2319
2320 Q: Okay. How do you know that?
2321
2322 A: ‘Cause he told me.
2323
2324 Q: Okay.
2325
2326 ((Crosstalk))
2327
2328 Q: Do you know what she’s doing there?
2329
2330 A: I think she’s on a business trip. He didn’t even tell me right away. He actually
2331 told me, I think, like, on Saturday or somethin’.
2332
2333 ((Crosstalk))
2334
2335 Q: Like, during...
2336
2337 ((Crosstalk))
2338
2339 A: Friday or somethin’. I don’t - I honestly don’t remember. I just remember I
2340 was, like, really surprised. Where he’s, like, “Hey, like, I’m gonna try to get a

2341 babysitter if you want to hang out or somethin’ like that.” And I was, like,
2342 “Why do you need a babysitter? Like, your wife’s home.” He’s, like, “No,
2343 she’s out of town.” I was, like, “Oh.”
2344
2345 Q: Okay.
2346
2347 A: “Okay.”
2348
2349 Q: Was there much conversation regarding that? Her on - bein’ on a trip, or the
2350 children on - during those conversations?
2351
2352 A: Not really. I just asked him what time she was comin’ home on Sunday and he
2353 just said, “Really late.”
2354
2355 Q: Okay.
2356
2357 A: And that was it. I mean, i- i- there’s nothin’ really to talk about with that.
2358
2359 Q: Okay. So your conversations mainly health-related?
2360
2361 A: Mm-hm.
2362
2363 Q: Um, you guys returned to your house and then he goes home. And then you
2364 talked to him for, um, a few hours on Sunday.
2365
2366 A: Did I? Are you asking me or are you telling me?
2367
2368 Q: I’m asking you.
2369
2370 A: Oh. I was, like, I don’t even know. Sunday - honestly - oh, on s- so wait a
2371 minute. That was Saturday. This is the - we’re talking about Saturday. We’re
2372 not talking about Sunday right now.
2373
2374 Q: Okay. So you’re still on Saturday?
2375
2376 A: Yes. This...
2377
2378 Q: You guys have a phone conversation when he gets home?
2379
2380 A: That was the day that he got the babysitter and I went out to dinner. Not on
2381 Sunday.
2382
2383 Q: Okay.
2384
2385 A: Okay. Sorry, I just want to make sure you got...

2386
2387 Q: That’s okay. Yep.
2388
2389 A: ...your days right. So Saturday, yes. We went out. He had the babysitter. He
2390 went home. I’m sure we did. We always talk on the phone and, honestly, I
2391 mean, (Mark) asked me that the other day. He’s, like, “How long were you on
2392 the phone? 15 minutes? 20 minutes?” Like, you’re gonna have to look at the
2393 records, to be honest with you. Like, I’m - so much.
2394
2395 Q: You like to talk. I can tell a little bit.
2396
2397 A: Yeah.
2398
2399 ((Crosstalk))
2400
2401 A: A little bit.
2402
2403 A1: 400 - when she was young, she’d crank out about 400 words a minute. Gusts,
2404 up to 600. That little thing can yack, man.
2405
2406 Q: You’re a talker. So I’m - I’m lettin’ you talk. Um...
2407
2408 A1: I need to use a restroom. If I can use...
2409
2410 Q: Let me show you where it’s at.
2411
2412 A: Can you get me some water...
2413
2414 Q: So...
2415
2416 A: ...while you’re out there with them, please?
2417
2418 A1: Sure.
2419
2420 A: Thank you.
2421
2422 A1: And another bottle?
2423
2424 Q: That’s...
2425
2426 A: Yeah. At least one.
2427
2428 Q: Let’s move to...
2429
2430 A: Sunday.

2431
2432 Q: ...Sunday, right? Well, let me reverse somethin’. Your conversation with the
2433 children - or about the children, was there ever any talk about medical
2434 concerns with either of the children?
2435
2436 A: All I know is (CiCi) is allergic to pea- not peanuts. Like, pine nuts. Pine nuts.
2437
2438 Q: So she has a nut allergy?
2439
2440 A: Yes.
2441
2442 Q: Did they take meds?
2443
2444 A: He - I know that she had, like, an epi-pen, but as far as I know, she didn’t have
2445 any meds. But I never asked. Like, I was just told, like, she has a pretty severe
2446 allergy. And...
2447
2448 Q: Enough to carry an epi-pen. That’s pretty severe.
2449
2450 A: Yeah. While we’re on this, so when he was in North Carolina, um - this is all,
2451 like, hearsay now, because it’s, like, this is in a conversation. Like, he’s telling
2452 me this stuff, but who knows exactly what happened? But he went out there to
2453 go see his family and her family, and while he was in town, before he went
2454 out to North Carolina, I guess his mother had accidentally, like - not exposed
2455 her to something with nuts, but had, like, given a product - I think it was, like,
2456 ice cream, to a different kid that could have traces of nuts. Or something - I
2457 don’t know. But it was, like, his daughter was fine, but she was, like, in the
2458 range of contamination and I think his wife was very upset about that. And
2459 when he got to North Carolina, he told me that he was supposed to spend, like,
2460 half time with them, half the time with her family, and that was supposed to
2461 be what it was. I don’t know. But he said that he went to go see his family,
2462 and they weren’t answering the phone for, like, a day or two before he went
2463 out there. And then, when he got there, there was a note on the door that said,
2464 uh, “Son, if you stop by, we’re at the beach.” And they ignored him for, like,
2465 most of the time that he was out there. And...
2466
2467 Q: His own family?
2468
2469 A: Yes. His mom, his dad, and his sister.
2470
2471 Q: What’d he - what’s the significance? Do you know under - do you know why?
2472
2473 A: Yeah. He said - and, again, I don’t know what is true...
2474
2475 Q: Mm-hm.

2476
2477 A: ...with this man anymore, and what’s not. But he told me that - like, leading
2478 up to it, I was, like, “Well, why are your folks, like, ignoring you?” And I
2479 was, like, really concerned about this. Like, every single day he would talk to
2480 me when he was out there and I was, like, “You talk to your family today?
2481 You talk to your family today? Did you talk to your dad? What happened?
2482 Did you talk to them?” “No, I didn’t.” Or, “Yeah, I talked to my mom.” 
2483 “Well, what’d she say? Are you gonna hang out with them?” Like, I wanted
2484 him to see his people, because it’s important. Family is an important thing,
2485 you know? It just needs to function properly and...
2486
2487 Q: Sure.
2488
2489 A: ...and so I was, like, “Well, um” - and he was, like, “Well, they’re ignoring
2490 me.” And I was, like, “What do you think happened?” And he was, like, “I’m
2491 not really sure, but I think, um, something was said between my wife and
2492 them during that incident.” And he’s, like...
2493
2494 Q: The...
2495
2496 A: “...because every time I...”
2497
2498 Q: ...peanut or...
2499
2500 A: Yes.
2501
2502 Q: ...fruit and nut...
2503
2504 A: That happened before he got there. Yes. And he was, like, “Because every
2505 time that I try to, um - I talk about possibly going over there to see if they’re
2506 home, she gets upset about it.” And I was, like, “Okay.” And he told me that
2507 his mom and his wife did not get along at all. He said that his mom didn’t
2508 even show up to his wedding, because she’s, like, really - did not care for
2509 Shanann. So again, I don’t know what’s true and what’s not, but I just know
2510 that there was, like, some tension there.
2511
2512 Q: Mm-hm.
2513
2514 A: And, again, like, that part is, like - I feel like it’s almost third-party, so that’s
2515 why it’s, like...
2516
2517 Q: Sure.
2518
2519 A: ...I didn’t even worry about...

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

 

TIMDAD16AUGROOM

2521 ((Crosstalk))
2522
2523 Q: Well, but it came from him to you, so it’s not. It is somethin’ that I, um - is -
2524 whether it’s important or not, we can validate that. Uh, I’m sure we will be
2525 having some conversations with family. Um, you know, it - what does it
2526 mean? I don’t know. Um, but...
2527
2528 A: Yeah. I don’t know, either. But I just know...
2529
2530 Q: So...
2531
2532 A: ...like...
2533
2534 Q: Maybe she n- I don’t know.
2535
2536 A: Well, and then, um, he ended up seeing them on the last, like, full day that he
2537 was there, and they told him, supposedly, that she had gotten really upset and
2538 then scream and yelled in front of his s- Chris’s sisters kids that are very
2539 young. And that his mom and his dad had said, like, “You’re never gonna see
2540 Chris again. You’re gonna see me. You’re never gonna see the babies.” And
2541 just, like, threatened them. And then, like, walked off. And I guess that was
2542 the incident that happened prior to him coming out there. And then she didn’t
2543 tell him about it.
2544
2545 Q: Mm-hm.
2546
2547 A: She just, like, let it go and then he just spent all week tryin’ to figure out why
2548 his family was, like...
2549
2550 Q: Hm.
2551
2552 A: ...not tryin’ to be involved.
2553
2554 Q: Gotcha.
2555
2556 A: Um, so again, I’m not sure. That was i- like, it - it just feels really third-party,
2557 so it’s hard for me to, like, talk about. Because...
2558
2559 Q: Sure.
2560
2561 A: ...I don’t know how much...
2562
2563 Q: That’s okay.
2564
2565 A: ...validation...

2566
2567 ((Crosstalk))
2568
2569 Q: So be- beyond the me- the nut allergy for (CiCi), did you know of any other -
2570 did she take meds that you know of? Other than carrying an epi-pen?
2571
2572 A: His kids or his wife?
2573
2574 Q: No, hi- his children.
2575
2576 A: No.
2577
2578 Q: And now - well, if you know anything about his wife’s medical conditions, if
2579 she had any.
2580
2581 A: No. I’ve, like, read in the newspaper. They keep sayin’, “Oh, she had medical
2582 conditions.” And I’m like, “Is that a misprint? Are they talkin’ about (CiCi)?
2583 Or is that just somethin’ else I don’t know?”
2584
2585 Q: So you don’t know anything about...
2586
2587 A: Nope.
2588
2589 Q: ...uh, Shanann having any kind of medical problems?
2590
2591 A: Nope.
2592
2593 Q: Okay. Covered Saturday. So there’s a phone call Saturday night, actually. Um,
2594 from - uh, it can’t be Saturday. It had to be Sunday. I wrote that down quickly.
2595 Sunday night. Is there anything else you think - let’s - let me just back up.
2596 From the Saturday, where you guys had a meal at - at The Lazy Dog, to prior
2597 for the six weeks that you guys were serious - and, um, although your dad’s
2598 here and I think you’re probably pretty comfortable, your relationship with
2599 Chris was - can you describe your relationship?
2600
2601 A: I mean, when he was with me, I considered it to be fairly healthy. Was open
2602 communication and it was what I thought was honest. And it was very calm. It
2603 was respectful. Uh, we got along really well. He gave me my space when I
2604 needed it. I gave him his. And any time, like, he wanted to take care of hi-
2605 like, any time that his kids could be in, like, his life for hours or days or
2606 whatever - whenever they were home, I made sure that I wasn’t a presence in
2607 his life. So that he could be the best dad that he needed to be. Um, and, I
2608 mean, I thought what we had - it was very comfortable for me. I enjoyed it. I
2609 think he did very much, as well.

2611 Q: Your guys - you - six to eight weeks, two mo- whatever it was, you guys have
2612 an intimate relationship during that time?
2613
2614 A: Yes.
2615
2616 Q: Okay. So you’re - and you’re pretty serious. Um, d- did he ever tell you that
2617 he loved you?
2618
2619 A: Yes, he did.
2620
2621 Q: Did you ever tell him the same?
2622
2623 A: Couple times.
2624
2625 Q: Okay. Um, notwithstanding that today, ‘cause that may - those thoughts may
2626 have changed for you, but on - let’s go Mon- Sunday into Monday or Monday,
2627 did you - did you still love him on those days?
2628
2629 A: I think it was something where it was, like, I s- I said it a few times and I
2630 meant it, but he definitely felt the urge to say it to me a lot more than I did to
2631 him. Because it was just all very new to me and it was, like, “Take your time
2632 with this. Like, you don’t need to - to, like, rush that, you know?” Like, I
2633 remember when he was in North Carolina and he was, like, tryin’ to patch
2634 things up with his wife. And he told me he loved me. And I was, like, “Don’t
2635 say that to me. Like, please go try to fi- and I mean it.” And that might be in
2636 the texts, too. Where it’s, like, “Don’t. Don’t. Like, don’t say those words to
2637 me and then go try to make peace with you li- wife and lay in bed with
2638 another woman. Like, just don’t do that.” And I was, like, “It’s not that I don’t
2639 appreciate what you’re saying to me.” It’s, like, just - it just didn’t sit right for
2640 me, you know? So I’d just be like...
2641
2642 Q: Almost like an insecurity where he had to say that to you? Or...
2643
2644 A: I - I don’t - no. I think he - he, like - looking back at all this now, I don’t think
2645 he was trying to fix things with her. So saying “I love you” to me seemed like
2646 probably something that he genuinely meant. Like, “I love this woman.” And
2647 regardless of where he was gonna end up that night. But, to me, in the way
2648 that I was perceiving things, he had told me that he was tryin’ to fix things
2649 with her. So it’s just, like, “This is an inappropriate time.” And I wasn’t mad
2650 at him. And I’m pretty sure that’s in the texts, too. Where it was very, like,
2651 calm but it’s just, like, it’s almost disrespectful. Where it’s, like, “Please
2652 don’t.” I’m like, “You know, if we get to that point where it is you and me,
2653 like, yes, you can say that. But don’t - not then. Like, that’s...”
2654
2655 Q: So you thought he was very genuine when he said that?

2656
2657 A: I - yeah. I did. I mean, and he wrote it and sent all those cards I gave you. Not
2658 in all of them, but, like...
2659
2660 Q: Hm.
2661
2662 A: ...the later ones.
2663
2664 Q: And...
2665
2666 A: Thank you.
2667
2668 Q: When you said it to him, you said you meant it, when you said it.
2669
2670 A: Yes. I just didn’t say it as frequently as he said it. Like, sometimes he would
2671 say it and I was just, like - for me, it was still, like, very, very new. So I kinda,
2672 like, took my time and only said it when I was just, like, “This is a really
2673 important moment.”
2674
2675 Q: So you go- I mean, in the short period of time that you guys were together,
2676 he...
2677
2678 A: Yes.
2679
2680 Q: ...wa- became very attached to you.
2681
2682 A: Yes. Very, very attached.
2683
2684 Q: I mean, he’s sending cards...
2685
2686 A: Flowers.
2687
2688 Q: ...he’s tellin’ you he loves you, he sends you flowers. Does he buy you any
2689 other gifts?
2690
2691 A: Nope. I wouldn’t have wanted them anyways. It’s - flowers is enough. You
2692 can’t - I don’t need expensive stuff.
2693
2694 Q: Okay. But he becomes very attached to you.
2695
2696 A: Yes.
2697
2698 Q: Um, you guys are talking multiple times a day, at least. You’re...
2699
2700 ((Crosstalk))

2701
2702 A: All the time.
2703
2704 Q: You’re seein’ each other on a regular basis.
2705
2706 A: Yep.
2707
2708 Q: Um, so i- it - it’s a very, um - and - and his wife is not around, nor are his
2709 children. So there’s a lot of time for you guys to build your relationship in this
2710 first four - four weeks or so. Is that fair?
2711
2712 A: Yeah. And even when she - she was back, I mean, it was still, like, we were
2713 still spending time together. He was still spending time with his children, and
2714 I have my own life. Like, I mean, there was one week where I just, like, went
2715 out of town for my - with my friends for my birthday. I wasn’t even around
2716 the whole, like, th- last few days of June, up until the 3rd of July. I was, like,
2717 gone. You know? And then there was another - like, a f- last weekend, I had a
2718 friend impromptu come in town from out of state, and I hosted her, uh, for a
2719 few days. And it’s, like, it - like, I still did my own thing all the time. Like,
2720 whether he was there or not. Like, if my friends were, like, “Hey, we want to
2721 make plans,” I would tell him, like, “We’re not hangin’ out today, ‘cause I
2722 want to go see my mom or my dad.”
2723
2724 Q: Did your friends know about him?
2725
2726 A: Nope.
2727
2728 Q: Why?
2729
2730 A: ‘Cause it’s - like, he’s with two women right now. They don’t...
2731
2732 Q: Okay.
2733
2734 A: ...need to know about that.
2735
2736 Q: So if you had a boyfriend of four to eight weeks, on a regu- I don’t know if
2737 you ha- were married prior or if you had a boyfriend before, but if you had a
2738 steady boyfriend, you would let people know - I think you told me before we
2739 got started that y- you just told your dad about Chris, um...
2740
2741 A: No, I wouldn’t of told him.
2742
2743 Q: ...recently.
2744
2745 A: I wouldn’t of told people.

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

 

TIMDAD16AUGROOM

746
2747 Q: Okay.
2748
2749 A: It’s too early. I mean, people...
2750
2751 Q: So you don’t tell your friends, “Hey, I have a new boyfriend”?
2752
2753 A: No, ‘cause they - i- people come and go.
2754
2755 Q: Okay.
2756
2757 A: I mean, dating, seeing these days is, like - it sucks. I mean, so no. I wouldn’t. I
2758 mean, it would have to be somethin’ - even with (Shawn). I think I was with
2759 (Shawn) for probably, like, six or seven months before I brought him home to
2760 my family. I mean, I really - and same with...
2761
2762 Q: Okay.
2763
2764 A: ...the - that was the guy I was in a previous relationship with. But I mean...
2765
2766 Q: But this one, you were a little bit more - you said he’s with two women. Did
2767 that - was that one of your considerations for not telling anybody about him?
2768
2769 A: Y- yes. Well, I mean, it was, like, “Okay. Like, this” - to me, it wasn’t gonna
2770 be an ex- extended thing. Like, if it got to the point where we were, like,
2771 dating for, like, three or four months and he’s still talkin’ about, “Oh, I’m
2772 gonna move out and I’m gonna sell the house,” I think at that point I probably
2773 would’ve just been like, “I don’t think you’re really, like, doing these things
2774 you say you’re gonna do.” And I probably would’ve just, like, left. Because,
2775 at that point, it’s not fair. It wasn’t fair to me in the first place. It wasn’t fair to
2776 her in the first place. It wasn’t fair to any of us in the first place. You know? It
2777 wasn’t fair to his family, for him to have an affair. It wasn’t fair to me to have
2778 him lie to me and make me think that everything is going to plan and, still, to
2779 this day, I don’t even know what’s a lie and what’s not. I don’t even know if
2780 they were, like, filing for divorce. I don’t know if they were putting the house
2781 up. I don’t even know - I don’t even know anymore what is real and what is
2782 not.
2783
2784 Q: Sure.
2785
2786 A: But what I do know is it’s just, like - you know, that wasn’t fair to me, either,
2787 because if I’d a known not even all the truth but, like, obviously, some of it, I
2788 wouldn’t have even engaged in any of this in the first place. And it just - and I
2789 mean, and that’s the part, for me, just, like, on my personal level, outside of
2790 everything that is happening. That is gonna affect me long-term. It’s, like, you

2791 know, I’m gonna wake up every day and know that, like, this mom and her
2792 unborn child and these two little girls are not around anymore. And it breaks
2793 my heart. It is so - oh my god. And - and he - and then I have to think about,
2794 like, the consequences of his actions, and how they affect everybody else.
2795 Like, all of these - her family’s impacted. My name is about to be, like,
2796 slandered for probably a while. I don’t know how long it’s gonna take to heal,
2797 but I would not be surprised if it’s gonna be hard to go out in public
2798 sometimes for a couple of years. And that really hurts me. I’m just, like, this is
2799 a horrible, horrible thing. Like, how dare you? You know? And - and people
2800 aren’t gonna understand that. You know? They’re gonna say, “Oh, you know,
2801 you’re the woman that had an affair with this man who took out his whole
2802 family.” And I take a step back and it’s just, like, I didn’t know. Like, I - I -
2803 uh. It’s - he’s so disgusting. I am so ashamed of him and everything, and I just
2804 - oh, those little girls. They’re so little. They’re so little.
2805
2806 Q: We talked to - we talked a little bit earlier about gettin’ some help for these
2807 things, and we can provide that.
2808
2809 A: God.
2810
2811 A1: Okay.
2812
2813 Q: At - at really, no cost. Through the state.
2814
2815 A1: Oh, one more can - we just want to make sure, uh, there’s resolution.
2816
2817 Q: Absolutely.
2818
2819 A1: That’s why we come to you guys.
2820
2821 Q: Yeah.
2822
2823 A1: To pound this sh...
2824
2825 Q: And...
2826
2827 A1: ...pound it down until there’s...
2828
2829 Q: Yeah, I - I’m...
2830
2831 A1: ...nothin’ left.
2832
2833 Q: ...sorry that you’re talking again today. I really am. I don’t want to put you
2834 through any more trauma than you’ve already been through. There is, um,
2835 reasons for everything that we’re doing today and what - what occurred. And

2836 I’m sorry. I genuinely am sorry. I - it - these are not things that we like to do
2837 twice. It’s the same thing with other types of victims from other crimes. We
2838 want to do it once, and we want to be done. Unfortunately, we didn’t know
2839 yesterday, uh, what we know today. And that’s why we’re here, because we
2840 need this video. And I’m - I am sorry, ‘cause I know it’s hard to talk about it.
2841 But it - it’s...
2842
2843 ((Crosstalk))
2844
2845 A: ...so sad, and she’s pregnant.
2846
2847 A1: And - and wo- on our end, we didn’t...
2848
2849 A: God, they’re so cute. They’re so little. Like, wow. Why? Why? Why? Why?
2850 How? I don’t even understand how you could, like, bring yourself to do that to
2851 somebody who’s, like, that big. Oh, Jesus.
2852
2853 Q: Take a minute. Do you want to step out for a minute?
2854
2855 A: No, I just need to chill with my eyes closed for a sec. I still cannot believe this
2856 is happening. All right. Let’s keep goin’, ‘cause we’re just...
2857
2858 ((Crosstalk))
2859
2860 A: ...gettin’ to, like, the meat of this whole...
2861
2862 Q: Let’s - let’s...
2863
2864 A: ...situation.
2865
2866 Q: ...get to the phone call on Saturday, from 9:00 to 11:00.
2867
2868 A: Uh...
2869
2870 Q: What did you guys - or s- pardon me. On Sunday from 9:00 to 11:00.
2871
2872 A: Yeah. We talked a few times. So Sunday...
2873
2874 A1: You okay?
2875
2876 A: I think so. I need to think. I can’t even think.
2877
2878 Q: Take a couple breaths and take a - take a second.
2879
2880 A: Sunday night. I don’t even know. I don’t think I was that concerned about

2881 anything at that point.
2882
2883 Q: You guys had had a meal - a nice meal the night before. You knew his wife
2884 was probably coming home late that evening.
2885
2886 A: Oh. Um, you know what? I still don’t remember what we talked about. I, like
2887 - honestly, like, we talked about so much random stuff. Like, it’s so hard to
2888 pinpoint some of these things. Um, I don’t remember what we talked about. I
2889 do remember that was a long phone conversation, though. We probably talked
2890 about all sorts of stuff. Um, one thing...
2891
2892 Q: Anything...
2893
2894 A: ...I do remember, though, um, that I didn’t remember earlier when I was
2895 talking to (Mark) - so this is, like, where I’m starting to remember, like, little
2896 bits and pieces.
2897
2898 Q: Mm-hm.
2899
2900 A: I - I don’t remember...
2901
2902 ((Crosstalk))
2903
2904 A: Yeah. No. This was a phone conversation. I don’t remember what was in the
2905 phone conversation. Probably nothing of relevance, to be honest with you.
2906 But, um, usually he talks to me when he’s, like, down in the basement, in his
2907 bed, before he goes to bed and before I go to bed. And I could hear the TV on,
2908 which I thought was kinda weird. I didn’t ask him, I just heard it in the
2909 background, and I remember thinking - and it was, like, right before we got
2910 off the phone. I was, like, “Why the hell is he up?” And there’s, like, no TV
2911 downstairs. So I was, like, “Well, maybe” - I don’t know.
2912
2913 Q: So no TV in the basement, where he usually calls you from?
2914
2915 A: Yeah. And I don’t know how many TVs they have. Like, I’ve never been in
2916 their bedroom. Like, I went upstairs once and it was, like, to their little play
2917 room and I just, like, looked at it. And I was, like, “That’s super cute that your
2918 girls have books.” And that was, like, it. And other than that, I have never
2919 been in any of those rooms in that upstairs. Like, to me, it was just, like, you
2920 don’t - no. Like, ever. I had no - so I don’t know if he has any other TVs. I’m
2921 assuming by, like, how much other nice stuff they have in their house, it
2922 wouldn’t surprise me. So I’m not quite sure what room he was in at that point.
2923 Um, but I just remember hearing the TV, and I was, like - it was just weird to
2924 me, ‘cause I was, like, “Why are you watching TV right now? It is, like, super
2925 late.” And that was the only thing...

2926
2927 Q: And he - and he had phoned you or were you guys already talking when the
2928 TV was goin’ or just...
2929
2930 A: I just remember, like, I - like, go- picked up on it, like, later, but I don’t think
2931 it was, like, throughout the whole conversation.
2932
2933 Q: Okay.
2934
2935 A: Like, I just remember it being towards the end, ‘cause I remember thinking,
2936 like, “Wow, it’s really late.”
2937
2938 Q: The - the, um - somethin’ I didn’t ask you about the house, ‘cause you’d been
2939 there twice and it just, uh, made me remember. Do you remember how you
2940 guys accessed the house?
2941
2942 A: Uh, that’s a good question. Uh, so once through the garage, and I think once
2943 through the front door.
2944
2945 Q: Uh...
2946
2947 A: I think the first time was through the front door. I think. And I think the
2948 second time was through the garage.
2949
2950 Q: Is there anything unique about either of the doors when you went into the
2951 house? That might not be typical of another house?
2952
2953 A: Like, a unique door? I know they have a...
2954
2955 Q: Not the door itself.
2956
2957 A: ...camera on their door.
2958
2959 Q: Okay. There’s - there’s...
2960
2961 A: I mean, I know that.
2962
2963 Q: There’s a camera on the - which door?
2964
2965 A: I - it’s on the front door, isn’t it?
2966
2967 Q: Um, I don’t know. I’m asking you.
2968
2969 A: I think so.

2971 Q: Okay.
2972
2973 A: Uh, I don’t know. Um...
2974
2975 Q: Was - did he use a key to access the house?
2976
2977 A: No. Um, he did not. The first time I went over there, he just let me in. And
2978 then the second time - did we go through the garage? I don’t remember. I’ve
2979 been through his garage before. I went through his front door once, though.
2980 ‘Cause I remember he had just cleaned - it was the first time I went through
2981 his front door. ‘Cause he had just cleaned his carpets, and he had moved all
2982 the furniture out of the way, and the furniture was kind of in the way of the
2983 door. And he’s, like, “The door doesn’t open all the way right now. I’ll move
2984 all the furniture back when the carpet dries.” So I do remember that, just kinda
2985 offhandedly. Uh, and the second time, I want to say we went through his
2986 garage, ‘cause I remember his garage. I remember - yeah. Yeah. So...
2987
2988 Q: So he was at the house when you went there? Um, you were never there by
2989 yourself, correct?
2990
2991 A: He was at - yeah, no.
2992
2993 Q: Or he took you there?
2994
2995 A: He - the first time, he was already there...
2996
2997 Q: Okay.
2998
2999 A: ...and I met up with him. And the second time, we went there together.
3000
3001 Q: So the front door - I asked if he had used a key.
3002
3003 A: He let me in.
3004
3005 Q: Okay. So there’s a, um - you know, those key pads...
3006
3007 A: Mm-hm.
3008
3009 Q: ...where you can enter a access code. Do you remember seein’ that on his
3010 door?
3011
3012 A: Oh, like, I want to say vaguely, but to be honest with you, I don’t remember.
3013 Like, he let me in that day. That’s - that was so long...
3014
3015 Q: So he never gave you...

3016
3017 A: ...ago.
3018
3019 Q: He never gave you the code to access his home?
3020
3021 A: No.
3022
3023 Q: Okay.
3024
3025 A: Not at all.
3026
3027 Q: Um, you talk about a security system. Uh, there was a s- uh, camera on the
3028 front door?
3029
3030 A: Mm-hm.
3031
3032 Q: Was that just, like, a - you know what a ring doorbell is? That goes to your
3033 phone?
3034
3035 A: I don’t even know what it looked like.
3036
3037 Q: Okay.
3038
3039 A: I only know that it existed, either because A, I wasn’t paying attention the first
3040 time I was over there but, B, because of all the stuff that’s going on right now.
3041 That’s the only...
3042
3043 Q: Okay.
3044
3045 A: ...reason I know it’s...
3046
3047 Q: Okay.
3048
3049 A: ...e- it exists.
3050
3051 Q: Do you remember seeing any cameras anywhere in the house?
3052
3053 A: No.
3054
3055 Q: Okay. Did he ever tell you about the alarm system or give you an access
3056 code...
3057
3058 A: No.
3059
3060 Q: ...to the alarm system?

3061
3062 A: No, no, no. I wouldn’t have asked for that. I wouldn’t of wanted that anyways.
3063
3064 Q: Sorry to regress to that.
3065
3066 A: No, you’re okay.
3067
3068 Q: We can go back to the - the phone call. Or where you noticed the television in
3069 the background...
3070
3071 A: Yeah.
3072
3073 Q: ...of the phone call.
3074
3075 A: Yep. So I didn’t know what room he was in, but I was just, like - I just
3076 thought it was weird. ‘Cause he’s always, like - before I go to bed and I lay
3077 down, he’s always, like, kinda tryin’ to do the same thing. We just talk. It’s,
3078 like, a really chill thing ‘til one of us is about to pass out. Then that’s, like, the
3079 end of it. Um, but it was strange. ‘Cause I was, like, “The TV’s on.” And I
3080 remember what I was thinkin’. I was, like, “Maybe he’s waitin’ up for her.” 
3081 And then I was, like, “Maybe not.” I didn’t know. I didn’t - it wasn’t
3082 something that, like, alerted me. It was just different from his...
3083
3084 ((Crosstalk))
3085
3086 A: ...standard operating procedure. Because he - whether his wife is home or
3087 she’s gone, he’s always got kinda, like, the standard op when he calls me. So
3088 that’s why it was kind of, like, unique.
3089
3090 Q: Okay.
3091
3092 A: Because it doesn’t really fluctuate when she’s there and when she’s not there.
3093 He’s pretty, like, free rein with what he does.
3094
3095 Q: Mm-hm. So anything i- anything important that you recall during that
3096 conversation about the children, about his wife, about what he was doing the
3097 next day, what he had planned? Anything like that?
3098
3099 A: No.
3100
3101 Q: Did he tell you any of that information?
3102
3103 A: I remember he told he had to go to the field and not to the office on Monday
3104 morning.

3106 Q: Okay. Did he specifically say where he needed to go on Monday morning?
3107
3108 A: No. I don’t ask him for those sites. There’s li- Anadarko’s got, like, thousands
3109 of sites. If he were to tell me, I wouldn’t of - I wouldn’t even tell...
3110
3111 Q: They’re just, like, random numbers and stuff, right?
3112
3113 A: Well, he told me - he said, “I gotta go to a site. I gotta go, um, check out, like,
3114 a valve” or somethin’ where they think that they had a release. Somethin’ like
3115 that. Uh...
3116
3117 Q: Did he mention the town or anywhere...
3118
3119 A: No. No. He just told me that that’s what he had to go do.
3120
3121 Q: Okay.
3122
3123 A: He’s, like - ‘cause, yeah. He was, like, “I won’t see you in the office in the
3124 morning.” ‘Cause I usually - I see him, but I don’t actually, like, talk to him.
3125 Like, I’ll go in the cafeteria. I will put my lunch in the fridge, and him and his
3126 whole team are sitting in there, and I don’t talk to any of them. I just walk out.
3127 Um, but anyways, yeah. He’s, like, “So I won’t see you. I’m goin’ to the
3128 field.” Which is not an uncommon thing for the Ops guys to, like, just go
3129 straight to the field. Like, it happens. Like, typically, they go to the office. I
3130 would say, like, three or four days a week. But there are days where him and
3131 his other team members are not there. Or, like, I’ll get in there and some days
3132 the - the cafeteria’s packed, and they’re all there. And other days, I get in
3133 there, and there’s only, like, three or four of them.
3134
3135 Q: So it didn’t cause you any concern that he said...
3136
3137 A: No.
3138
3139 Q: “...I’m goin’ to the field on Monday. I won’t see you”? That wasn’t...
3140
3141 A: No. It didn’t...
3142
3143 Q: That’s happened before?
3144
3145 A: Yeah, I mean...
3146
3147 Q: Okay.
3148
3149 A: ...it wasn’t something - I mean, and it’s not just him. It’s, like, that whole
3150 team. Like, you can just tell when they’ve got, like, a lot goin’ on. ‘Cause I’ll

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

 

 

TIMDAD16AUGROOM

 

3151 walk in and there’ll be, like, two of them as opposed to, like, six or seven.
3152
3153 Q: Do you know what he did Sunday, during the day?
3154
3155 A: Um, I don’t even know what I did on Sunday during the day. I am so tired. Let
3156 me just think about this. (Daniel) came over Friday. I hung out with him
3157 Saturday. And then Sunday...
3158
3159 Q1: When did (Jim) come in?
3160
3161 A: Monday.
3162
3163 Q1: Huh.
3164
3165 A: (Jim) got here Monday. What did I do on Sunday? I am, like, drawing a blank.
3166 I’m really tired. I don’t know. Can I get back to you on that?
3167
3168 Q: Did you guys have any conversations on Saturday night during your meal,
3169 what he might be doing on Sunday?
3170
3171 A: I’m sure we did. I don’t know why I’m drawing a blank, ‘cause I haven’t
3172 slept.
3173
3174 Q: I- if I say that his - he may have, uh, done something with his children, would
3175 that refresh...
3176
3177 A: Oh, yes.
3178
3179 Q: ...your memory?
3180
3181 A: He went to a birthday party.
3182
3183 Q: Okay. Um, do you know whose house he was going to?
3184
3185 A: Nope, but I know that they had a water balloon fight.
3186
3187 Q: Okay. He - he had one or his children?
3188
3189 A: His children did.
3190
3191 Q: Okay.
3192
3193 A: He said he used to get really into it. He said he got, like, really interactive with
3194 his kids. He’s, like, “So many adults don’t really spend a lot of time playing
3195 with the kids, but I always do.”

3196
3197 A1: We went to the museum on what day? Saturday or Sunday?
3198
3199 A: Sunday.
3200
3201 A1: Okay.
3202
3203 A: That’s right.
3204
3205 A1: Okay.
3206
3207 A: So - yeah, that’s what I was, like, “Was I hanging out with you?” God. Uh,
3208 so...
3209
3210 Q: Very memorable event, huh?
3211
3212 A: Uh, we hi...
3213
3214 A1: That was, uh...
3215
3216 A: Me and him and my - my m- stepmother...
3217
3218 A1: My wife and...
3219
3220 A: ...and my sister went...
3221
3222 A1: Yeah.
3223
3224 A: ...to, uh, the museum. And that’s right.
3225
3226 Q: What museum?
3227
3228 A: Uh, the Denver Museum of Nature and Science. And they went to brunch
3229 prior to that, and I skipped brunch. Um, and I went to the gym.
3230
3231 A1: You shouldn’t of. It was good.
3232
3233 A: I had to do core day. That was the last time I worked, actually. Um...
3234
3235 A1: That’s what we did Sunday. Okay.
3236
3237 A: And - yeah. So core day, and then we went - we went to the museum, and
3238 then, um...
3239
3240 Q: When did you - did he tell you about the water balloon fight on Sunday

3241 evening, during your conversation on the phone?
3242
3243 A: I think so.
3244
3245 Q: Okay. So...
3246
3247 A: I think so.
3248
3249 Q: ...you don’t know whose house he went to on Sunday?
3250
3251 A: No.
3252
3253 Q: Um, but you knew it was for a child’s birthday?
3254
3255 A: Yeah. And he had told me about that in advance, really. So I don’t know if it
3256 was Saturday that he had told me that he was gonna go to the birthday or, like,
3257 Friday. I just remember he was, like, “I gotta go to this birthday party...”
3258
3259 Q: Okay.
3260
3261 A: “...with my kids.”
3262
3263 Q: Um, any other conversation that makes sense?
3264
3265 A: I mean, honestly, at this point, I’m really tired, so I know there are certain
3266 things that I need to tell you guys that we’ll get to as these days progress.
3267
3268 Q: Yep.
3269
3270 A: Um, but in all honesty, if it doesn’t stand out to me now...
3271
3272 Q: Today?
3273
3274 A: ...it probably wasn’t...
3275
3276 Q: That’s fine.
3277
3278 A: ...relevant.
3279
3280 A1: What about that 9 o’clock thing you were tellin’ me on Monday?
3281
3282 A: Oh, what he told me? Oh, yeah. Well, we’ll get there. We’ll get there. We’re
3283 still on Sunday night.
3284
3285 Q: So we’re on Sunday.

3286
3287 A: We’re - we’re gonna go...
3288
3289 ((Crosstalk))
3290
3291 Q: We’re gonna get - we’re gonna get to...
3292
3293 A: This is gonna be a long day.
3294
3295 Q: We’re gonna get there to Monday. We’re - we’re getting there. So Sunday
3296 night - or Sunday during the day, you had your own personal, um, stuff going
3297 on...
3298
3299 A: Mm-hm.
3300
3301 Q: ...with your family.
3302
3303 A: Mm-hm.
3304
3305 Q: You never see him on Sunday. Is that accurate?
3306
3307 A: No. I didn’t see him. What did I do the rest of the day? I came home. I think I
3308 might’ve just chilled at my house. I don’t remember. I think I cleaned my
3309 house. I don’t know. I didn’t see him, though.
3310
3311 Q: Okay. And...
3312
3313 A: Yeah. Saturday was the last time I saw him.
3314
3315 Q: Okay. Sunday, you’re at home. You talk to him from - we know he - you have
3316 a conversation...
3317
3318 A: Mm-hm.
3319
3320 Q: ...in the late evening hours, and then...
3321
3322 A: Mm-hm.
3323
3324 Q: ...you go to sleep?
3325
3326 A: Mm-hm.
3327
3328 Q: Um, on Sunday night?
3329
3330 A: Mm-hm.

3331
3332 Q: When’s the next time you talk with Chris?
3333
3334 A: Probably Monday morning.
3335
3336 Q: Do you know what - what time?
3337
3338 A: No. I mean, so we used to, like, randomly text each other, like, throughout the
3339 day. But we both get really busy. So some days, like, I don’t hear a lot from
3340 him, and some days I don’t text him until, like, 2 o’clock in the afternoon.
3341 ‘Cause I’m just, like, busy. And I - I remember, I didn’t hear a lot from him
3342 that day. Uh, which was, like - that’s not out of the normal for either one of
3343 us, um, during the day. Um, but at one point, I do remember he, like, text me
3344 and he’s, like, “Oh, it’s been a really busy day.” And then, like, said some
3345 other stuff. Which I’m sure you will find in my text. What he said, I don’t
3346 know. It wasn’t obviously, anything that was, like, alerting to me. L- that’s
3347 what I’m sayin’. Like, at this point, like, I remember really key things. But if
3348 it’s, like, a conversation, then I’m like, “I don’t remember exactly what was
3349 discussed.” It’s ‘cause it was probably just bullshit. Like, just...
3350
3351 Q: Just...
3352
3353 A: ...talkin’ to each other. Yeah.
3354
3355 Q: ...small talk stuff?
3356
3357 A: Yeah. Um, but I remember he was busy that day, and we didn’t talk that
3358 much. And then I - I clocked out at 3:00 is what my timecard says. That’s
3359 what I was showing, um, (Mark), the other day. And I got home to go meet
3360 my buddy. One of my good friends was comin’ over to my house. And he
3361 actually has a key to my house. So he was actually there when I got there.
3362 And...
3363
3364 Q: Who’s that?
3365
3366 A: My friend, (Jim). Um, and so (Jim) came over and I got home. He was there.
3367 He had, like, just walked in the door, and, um, I remember, like, briefly, after
3368 he got there, I checked my texts. I mean, briefly after I met up with (Jim), I,
3369 like, glanced at my texts and Chris said something about, like, “My family’s
3370 not home.” Or, like, “My wife and kids aren’t home.” Like, something to that
3371 effect. And I told (Mark) - ‘cause he asked me for a time, and I don’t have an
3372 exact time, but I remember it was, like, right after I walked in the...
3373
3374 Q: That was a text message, though?

3376 A: Yeah. It’s in a text. And it’s, like - it was, like, briefly after I walked in the
3377 door. So based off how long it takes me to get home from work and when I
3378 clocked out, it was probably about 3:45 PM. Um, text me and tells me that.
3379 And, like, he knows when I get off of work, too. So he doesn’t always bug me
3380 if I’m busy. So I don’t know what’s up with that, but that’s when he - that’s
3381 when he sends that to me. And, um...
3382
3383 Q: So you’re saying that he - he would’ve known that you would’ve had your
3384 phone available to you and not been at work when he sent you that text
3385 message?
3386
3387 A: Uh, yes. That’s what I’m trying to say.
3388
3389 Q: So looking back at it, you think it was purposefully sent at that time?
3390
3391 A: Oh, I’m sure.
3392
3393 Q: Is - I’m - the - I’m just asking your feeling on that.
3394
3395 A: Yes. And then he said, “Call me when you can.” And I was, like...
3396
3397 Q: There was no other communication between you and him that morning, on
3398 Monday morning, at all?
3399
3400 A: Well, there w- there was, but it was, like, random, like...
3401
3402 Q: It - but nothin’ about this event?
3403
3404 A: No. No, no, no, no, no.
3405
3406 Q: About, like, “My mo- my wife’s missing” or...
3407
3408 A: No.
3409
3410 Q: “...My” - w- anything?
3411
3412 A: Nothin’.
3413
3414 Q: Okay.
3415
3416 A: Nothin’.
3417
3418 Q: And you knew he wasn’t comin’ to the office, ‘cause he had told you that
3419 Sunday night.

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

TIMDAD16AUGROOM

3421 A: Yeah. And then he goes - and so like, they’re only in the office for the
3422 morning. Like...
3423
3424 Q: Right.
3425
3426 A: ...some days it’s longer than others, but I would say by a maximum of 7:30,
3427 every single morning, they are all gone. And they don’t come back unless they
3428 have, like, a meeting or something that they have to attend. So like, not seeing
3429 him for the rest of the day is not, like, an un-normal thing.
3430
3431 Q: Okay.
3432
3433 A: Like - but, like, I’m saying, like, we don’t really - the only reason we interact
3434 was kind of, like, by an off-chance thing. Like, I don’t work with him.
3435
3436 Q: Mm-hm.
3437
3438 A: Um, so he, uh - yeah. We talked, like, randomly throughout the day, but it was
3439 really sporadic, and he seemed pretty busy. So we didn’t talk too much. Like I
3440 said, didn’t put too much thought into it. It happens all the time. Um, waited
3441 ‘til about 3:45, then sent that text to me. And, yes, he does know that I will be
3442 home at that point, or getting home. Like...
3443
3444 Q: Did you give (Mark) (Jim)’s information?
3445
3446 A: No. I would really, like, not like to involve him in this.
3447
3448 Q: Okay.
3449
3450 A: He does not know about this. He didn’t - and he was not - like, he doesn’t
3451 know any of this is occurring.
3452
3453 Q: Okay.
3454
3455 A: Like, I was literally tryin’ to...
3456
3457 Q: So he - he knows, certainly, through the media that somethin’s occurred?
3458
3459 A: Yeah.
3460
3461 Q: With...
3462
3463 A: He’s, like, out of town.
3464
3465 Q: ...Chris.

3466
3467 A: He’s probably has no idea.
3468
3469 Q: Okay.
3470
3471 A: He doesn’t know...
3472
3473 Q: Okay.
3474
3475 A: ...who Chris is. Like, he’s not - I do not - no.
3476
3477 Q: So he’s just a friend of yours...
3478
3479 A: Yes.
3480
3481 Q: ...um, that was...
3482
3483 A: He does not need to be dragged into this.
3484
3485 Q: ...coming to your apartment and doesn’t know anything about Chr- does he
3486 know anything about Chris?
3487
3488 A: No.
3489
3490 Q: Okay.
3491
3492 A: Nothin’. Absolutely nothin’.
3493
3494 A1: Yeah. We’ve known (Jim) for...
3495
3496 A: He - yeah.
3497
3498 A1: ...ye- years and years.
3499
3500 A: Yeah.
3501
3502 Q: You’re not datin’ him or anything like that?
3503
3504 A: No.
3505
3506 Q: He’s just a friend?
3507
3508 A: He’s, like, one of my very good friends. Like, my dad knows him. He’s a
3509 great guy. He just - he - he works out of state a lot. So when he’s in town, um,
3510 we hang out. But when he’s in town and he’s off of work, to save time - I - so

3511 I - I gave him a key to my house one, ‘cause I trust him and he’s one of my
3512 best friends, and two, ‘cause, uh, sometimes he will just meet me there.
3513 Because I’ll be, like, “Hey, I’m gettin’ off of work.” And then if I get stuck in
3514 traffic or something, he ends up, like, sitting outside of my apartment waiting
3515 for me to get off of work. So I’m like, “Here’s a key.” And, like, my dog loves
3516 him and stuff. So no.
3517
3518 Q: Okay.
3519
3520 A: He’s not involved with it...
3521
3522 Q: So he’s just a family friend?
3523
3524 A: Yes. I don’t even want him dragged...
3525
3526 Q: The only reason I ask...
3527
3528 A: ...into this.
3529
3530 Q: A- and I’m not really concerned, uh, about your location. Um, I think we
3531 already have your cell phone records. Um, at some point, i- did (Mark) ask
3532 you to supply - uh, did they ask for consent to get cell phone records. That’ll
3533 probably be done by warrant, if we...
3534
3535 A: Isn’t that what you just did?
3536
3537 Q: Nope. What I’m talkin’ about is your movement.
3538
3539 A: Oh.
3540
3541 Q: Um, by GPS or by cell phone tower. To show where you were. Obviously -
3542 and I don’t want to cause you concern. We want to know where you were that
3543 day, too. You’re dating a man who did some egregious stuff, and we want to
3544 put - we want to show that you were never near him that day, period.
3545
3546 A: Oh, I mean, you guys can...
3547
3548 Q: So...
3549
3550 A: ...track my stuff.
3551
3552 Q: No, i- I mean, that - that was somethin’ we will have to get a warrant for,
3553 anyways, to - I’m just saying if - if we asked for it, would you have any
3554 objections...

3556 A: Yeah, you’re...
3557
3558 Q: ...to that?
3559
3560 A: No. You can have it.
3561
3562 Q: All right. So, um, we’ll...
3563
3564 A: I’m - I’m a pretty boring person. I don’t...
3565
3566 Q: Well, it sounds like...
3567
3568 A: ...go too many places.
3569
3570 Q: ...you just went to work that day and then you came home and you were there
3571 at 3:45.
3572
3573 A: Yeah, like, give or take...
3574
3575 ((Crosstalk))
3576
3577 A: ...like, five minutes.
3578
3579 Q: Yeah. Right.
3580
3581 A: But yeah. So 3:45 I meet (Jim) there. Yeah, I would totally do...
3582
3583 Q: And so (Jim) is a - understand from an investigative point, he could be a
3584 person who could say, “Yeah. I was there at 3:45. I don’t” - he doesn’t know
3585 Chris. He doesn’t know anything. He could say, with one phone call, “Yeah,
3586 she came in at 3:45.” Done.
3587
3588 A: Totally.
3589
3590 Q: Do you know what I’m sayin’?
3591
3592 A: Yeah.
3593
3594 Q: And I don’t have to ask anything more than, “Hi, Chris. My name’s Kevin.
3595 I’m...”
3596
3597 A: Oh.
3598
3599 Q: Or - or - or (Jim).

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

TIMDAD16AUGROOM

3601 ((Crosstalk))
3602
3603 Q: And I’m not saying you have to...
3604
3605 ((Crosstalk))
3606
3607 A: Just leave (Jim) alone. Just leave (Jim) alone.
3608
3609 ((Crosstalk))
3610
3611 A: (Jim) does not need to be wrapped up in this.
3612
3613 Q: ...some point - if at some point I needed (Jim)’s info to - let’s say we couldn’t
3614 find your phone records. Would you tell...
3615
3616 ((Crosstalk))
3617
3618 A: You can have them. I will give them to you.
3619
3620 Q: Would you tell me who (Jim) was if I couldn’t get them?
3621
3622 A: If you had to.
3623
3624 Q: Okay.
3625
3626 A: I don’t really want to involve him in this.
3627
3628 Q: Perfect.
3629
3630 A: That is not fair to him. That’s not - no. If I do not have to do that...
3631
3632 Q: That’s fine.
3633
3634 A: Um, yeah. So anyways, Chris was, like, “Call me.”
3635
3636 Q: And this is the 3:45 text?
3637
3638 A: Yeah. He sent me, like, a few. There were - I think there was three of them,
3639 and I don’t remember what the other one said. But something about, like,
3640 “Yeah, my family’s gone.” Or - I don’t remember verbatim, but “Call me
3641 when you can.” Or have - “Call me when you have a chance.” Something to
3642 that effect. And so when he told me, “Call me,” I was, like, kind of alerted.
3643 Where I was, like, “Okay. What’s goin’ on?” You know? Um, but first when
3644 he told me, like, his family was, like, not home, that didn’t really seem odd to
3645 me. That his family wasn’t home. It was really vague. I’m like, “Okay. Like,

3646 are they at the grocery store? Like, elaborate.” And so you know - and then
3647 but he says, “Call me,” like it’s, like, an emergency, but then just says that
3648 they’re not there. And so I am, like, really, like, floored by the - well, I’m not,
3649 like, floored but just kinda, like - he says, “Call me,” so I’m concerned, and
3650 then he’s really vague. So I’m like, “Maybe he just wants to talk to me.” I
3651 don’t know. I think it took me a little while to, like, really process the severity
3652 of the situation, just because this is not something that you expect to see every
3653 day. And the way that he talked to me made me believe that this is not what
3654 was goin’ on, at all.
3655
3656 Q: Okay. So you make a phone call to him and you guys have a conversation?
3657
3658 A: I did. I stepped outside. Um...
3659
3660 Q: This is 3:45?
3661
3662 A: Ish. I mean - well, like, I think I actually interacted with (Jim) for, like,
3663 probably a good 15 or 20 minutes. I mean, he’s my guest. He’s in the house.
3664 Um, so I don’t think I called him right away. But, like - I mean, I’m tryin’ to
3665 balance the fact that I have my friend here, and then Chris is saying that
3666 something needs to be addressed. But, to me, it didn’t sound like an
3667 emergency. I mean, it was all the time. Like, people aren’t home right now.
3668 You know? So it just - it wasn’t, like, “Oh my god. I have to take this call. It’s
3669 an emergency.”
3670
3671 Q: It didn’t register as being serious?
3672
3673 A: No. No. I mean, it just - it was the way he said it. And I was, like, “Okay.” So
3674 I, um - I remember hangin’ out with (Jim) for a while, and then I stepped
3675 outside, and I made a call, like, out on my back patio. And I called him. And
3676 he didn’t answer the phone. And then he texted me back? Oh, no. Did he
3677 answer the phone? I don’t remember. I think he missed my call, and then he
3678 called me back. Or he just answered. Either way, it was a very short talk to
3679 him where he was just, like, “I have to go. The cops are here.” And I don’t
3680 remember if he said that on the phone or over text. I don’t...
3681
3682 Q: That’s okay.
3683
3684 A: ...even - I’m so tired.
3685
3686 Q: That’s fine. You don’t need to...
3687
3688 ((Crosstalk))
3689
3690 A: But either way, like, the cops...

3691
3692 Q: It’s - it’s the context.
3693
3694 A: Yeah. I mean, you guys’ll figure it out. “The cops - the cops are here.” And
3695 I’m just like, “All right.” And then I remember we were, like, in a - like, we
3696 were texting, but I was, like, hanging out with my company. So it wasn’t, like,
3697 a non-stop text. It was just kinda, like, I would check my phone every once in
3698 a while, and we would communicate with each other. And he was just saying,
3699 like, they weren’t there and that her friend, Nicky, was there. And that her
3700 friend, Nicky, had called the cops. And I’m like, “Why would this girl call the
3701 cops?” And I’m like - I honestly do not remember the order of operations on
3702 all of this, but I’m pretty sure the majority of our conversation that night, until
3703 my friend, (Jim), left the house - which was probably pretty late. I don’t even
3704 know what time. Like, 9:00 or 10:00 - was all via text. So you should have
3705 this via text.
3706
3707 Q: Okay.
3708
3709 A: Like, I don’t think we started talking again on the phone until, like, after my
3710 company left. Um, and he was, like, uh - I don’t know. He just started, like,
3711 giving me details about stuff, and I don’t remember what order. But he was
3712 sayin’, like, Nicky was really upset, and that the cops were there, and that they
3713 were, like, searchin’ the house. And I was just, like, “What?” You know, like,
3714 “What? Why?” And he was tellin’ me that, um, they had, like, had a
3715 disagreement or something like that and then, um, he told me, like, she was
3716 gonna go to a friend’s house. And I was, like, “Okay. Well, maybe she left.
3717 You know, maybe she just, like, went to her friend’s.” And then I think he - I
3718 don’t remember, but I think he was the one that told me that her cell phone
3719 and her purse were still there. I think he told me that.
3720
3721 Q: He told you her cell phone...
3722
3723 A: I’m...
3724
3725 Q: ...and purse were still there?
3726
3727 A: I think he did. I don’t remember.
3728
3729 ((Crosstalk))
3730
3731 Q: What’s the significance of that, in your mind, at that time?
3732
3733 A: At that point, I thought this woman was really tryin’ to get out of this house.
3734
3735 Q: Okay.

3736
3737 A: That’s what I thought. ‘Cause he said that they’d had a disagreement, and I
3738 was just, like, “Okay. Well” - I mean, I leave my cell phone at home,
3739 sometimes.
3740
3741 Q: But he - he said disagreement. What - did he tell you what it was about or...
3742
3743 A: Not at that point. Not at that point.
3744
3745 Q: Okay.
3746
3747 A: So, um, again, like, you guys are gonna have to check these texts, ‘cause it’s
3748 all, like - I don’t know. My brain’s...
3749
3750 ((Crosstalk))
3751
3752 Q: That’s okay.
3753
3754 A: ...mashed potato right now. Um, but I remember him sayin’ that and I’m just
3755 thinkin’, like, “Well, maybe she was in a rush, you know? Like, maybe she
3756 was just, like, ‘I’m goin’ to my friend’s. I’m leavin’ my cell phone here
3757 because I don’t want you callin’ me. I don’t want anyone else callin’ me.’” I
3758 mean, there are days where, like, when I’m outside of work, I will just shut
3759 my phone off. I just do it and it’s, like, my way of getting peace. So to me,
3760 that - I mean, like, it was weird that she - w- it wasn’t even that weird to me
3761 that she left her phone, just because I leave my phone. But it was weird to me
3762 that she left her purse. But knowing the fact that that girl was, like, always on
3763 her phone, then yeah. I guess it is kinda odd.
3764
3765 Q: Like, she lived on her phone, I think.
3766
3767 A: Uh, yeah.
3768
3769 Q: Pretty much is my understanding of her and a phone. So...
3770
3771 A: Yeah.
3772
3773 Q: ...I don’t know if you knew that...
3774
3775 A: I did.
3776
3777 Q: ...until prior to the media stuff or just from Chris.
3778
3779 A: I did.

3781 Q: So did that - so did that strike you as odd? But if you were thinking...
3782
3783 A: Kind of. I mean, agai...
3784
3785 Q: ...maybe she just left?
3786
3787 A: I just thought she needed to, like, get away from the situation. I mean, I - that
3788 didn’t seem that awkward to me, that a couple that is going through a
3789 separation would be, like, “We’re - I need to leave.”
3790
3791 Q: Mm-hm.
3792
3793 A: “I just need some space.” Like, it didn’t even, like, process. I was, like,
3794 “Okay. Like, give her some space.” You know? And, um, on that note, too,
3795 um, when he was in - we’re gonna jump back for just a second.
3796
3797 Q: That’s okay.
3798
3799 A: I had a thought. So when, uh, he was comin’ back from North Carolina, that
3800 was when he officially told me, “We’re gonna get a divorce and we’re gonna
3801 put the house up for sale.” Like, he told me they were separating and they
3802 were, like, gonna put the house up for sale, but they hadn’t done it yet. And
3803 then, when he got back from North Carolina, that was when he was, like, it
3804 was, like, a sealed deal.
3805
3806 Q: Okay.
3807
3808 A: Um, and the reason that is of significance is because at some point over the
3809 weekend - I don’t remember when - he told me that they were putting the
3810 house up. I - I don’t know if it was they were putting it up on Monday. Like,
3811 the day they went missing. Or if it was that they were calling the realtor to
3812 verify some stuff so they could put it up that week. Like, I don’t - I don’t quite
3813 remember. I just remember, like, the house was supposed to be, like, on the
3814 market, like, that week.
3815
3816 Q: Did he name a realtor ever?
3817
3818 A: Yeah, he did, and I don’t remember her name. It was a female.
3819
3820 Q: Okay.
3821
3822 A: And I don’t remember her name.
3823
3824 Q: That’s fine.

3826 A: Like, at all. I was tryin’ to think of that for you guys not too long ago.
3827
3828 A1: Is it a company? Do you got the company name?
3829
3830 A: No. He never gave me that. He, like, gave me her name and he’s - it was the
3831 same name twice. He gave it to me once when he was in North Carolina, and
3832 then once - the other time - ‘cause I remember askin’. I was, like, “Who’s
3833 that?” ‘Cause he was, like - he’s, like, “I’m gonna have to have her call so-
3834 and-so today and make sure everything’s still good to go.” I was, like, “Who’s
3835 that?” He’s, like, “The realtor.” I was, like, “Oh.” Or not today but, like,
3836 Monday.
3837
3838 Q: If it ever comes to your mind, just...
3839
3840 A: Yeah. I doubt it.
3841
3842 ((Crosstalk))
3843
3844 A: That was such a...
3845
3846 Q: Yeah.
3847
3848 A: I will try. I don’t...
3849
3850 Q: Lots of names.
3851
3852 A: ...remember what it was.
3853
3854 Q: That’s fine. It’s not that critical. Um, that person may come forward to us
3855 anyways, um - uh, perhaps. So...
3856
3857 A: Okay.
3858
3859 Q: ...don’t worry about it. Let’s go back to the phone calls on Monday afternoon.
3860
3861 A: Yeah. So, um - so he’s, like, texting me a lot of this information, and I’m
3862 startin’ to kinda freak out. And it’s not like I’m freaked out, like, “Oh, she got
3863 murdered.” I mean, that is not what I thought. It’s, like, “Okay.” Like, the way
3864 I looked at this, like, apparently his wife had been gone since mid-day. Well,
3865 was when she got, like, reported missing. I didn’t know that. Like, he’s - the
3866 way I looked at this, it was, “I got home from work just now.” I mean, he
3867 didn’t say that, but I interpreted, “I just got home from work, and my family is
3868 not here.”
3869
3870 Q: Okay.

3871
3872 A: So when we’re texting for, like, a few hours - like, the cop thing was kinda
3873 weird but he’s, like, Nicky insisted they call the cops. Nicky insisted they call
3874 the cops. And I’m like, “Okay.” You know? And I’m just tryin’ to figure out,
3875 “Well, like, what role does this woman play in this situation? Like, is she...”
3876
3877 Q: Did you know who she was?
3878
3879 A: No. I don’t know any of his people. Um, like, this has been pretty, like, tight
3880 wrapped for a while, which is probably a really good thing. Um, but anyways,
3881 um, I didn’t know, like, who she was. And so, um, like, I started askin’ him. I
3882 was, like, “Well, where do you think your wife is at?” And he’s, like - he’s,
3883 like, “I think she’ll be back tonight. Like, I think she’s, like, out with
3884 somebody.” And he was tellin’ me that they had had a disagreement. So I was,
3885 like, “Well” - I remember s- telling him - I was, like, “You should make sure
3886 that you have a f-” oh, um, wait a minute. No, no, no. So all that happened,
3887 and then it starts gettin’ kinda late out. And I remember we talked for text for
3888 a while and part of this conversation. Then it moved to the phone. Um, and I
3889 remember tellin’ him - ‘cause he was, like, “I think she’ll just be back
3890 tomorrow. I think she’s just gonna be gone for the night, like, with a friend.” 
3891 You know? And I...
3892
3893 Q: Did he name the friend?
3894
3895 A: No. He didn’t. And, like, I - well, and ‘cause I - I don’t think - he made it
3896 sound like he didn’t know, like, what friend’s house she would be at. And I
3897 remember talkin’ to him and I was, like, “Well, maybe it’s that Nicky girl.” 
3898 And he’s, like, “Well, Nicky called the cops. So why would she be at Nicky’s
3899 house?” I’m like, “I don’t know. Kinda throws her off the trail of where she’s
3900 at, you know?” And it’s, like - it sounds kinda weird but it’s, like, I - he really
3901 made this sound like this woman was just, like, upset, left the house, and that
3902 was probably what he thought happened to her. And so I - I didn’t really put
3903 too much, like...
3904
3905 Q: Did he tell you the kids were missing, as well, with her?
3906
3907 A: Yes. I knew...
3908
3909 Q: Okay.
3910
3911 A: I mean, which made sense to me, ‘cause I was, like, “Well, if you were at
3912 work all day.” I mean, he didn’t tell me he got home early. He didn’t say that
3913 to me. So I mean, it made sense. Like, if she’s gonna leave, they should
3914 probably go with her. Um, and - and so, uh, I don’t know. I wish - I feel like I
3915 wish I should’ve, like, processed all of this earlier, but I just don’t feel like,

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

 

 

 

TIMDAD16AUGROOM

3916 when one of my friends is gone, I’m, like, “Oh my god. They got murdered.
3917 We should address this. Like, I haven’t heard from them for four hours.”
3918
3919 Q: It’s not a typical thought when somebody...
3920
3921 A: No.
3922
3923 Q: ...just checks out for a day.
3924
3925 A: No. So it got late at night and, like, I remember telling him - I was, like - he’s,
3926 like, “I think she’ll be back tomorrow.” And he was gonna go into work. And
3927 I told him not to. I was, like, “You need to stay home and you need to help the
3928 cops.” I’m like, “And you need to wait for her to come back.” And he’s, like,
3929 tellin’ me, like, “Well, what if, like, she comes back and she sees my truck?” 
3930 And I was, like, “You know what I would do?” I was, like, “I would ask one
3931 of your good friends who’s off of work tomorrow, to come over to this house
3932 and hang out with you while you’re here.” I was, like, “And go park your
3933 truck down the street.” I was, like, “So she’s upset at you and she wants to
3934 come back.” I was, like, “But she doesn’t want to be here if you’re here,
3935 maybe?” I was, like, “If she comes back,” I was, like, “and she doesn’t see
3936 your truck, maybe she’d be more willing to come in the house.” I’m like,
3937 “You know?” I’m like, “But don’t be alone with her.” I was, like, “Because if
3938 she’s upset enough to leave,” I was, like, “you don’t know what kinda
3939 confrontation you’re gonna have when you get back in the house.” And I was,
3940 like, “So that’s why you should have a friend there. So that you’re not alone
3941 with her.” And I was, like, “And if, for some reason, you are alone with her,” I
3942 told him - I was, like - I really thought she just left. I did. I was, like, “Get
3943 your phone, put it on video, and put it in your pocket.” And I was, like, “And
3944 just zip it up.” And he’s, like, “Why?” And I told him. I was, like, “‘Cause
3945 you can voice record.” I was, like, “So if she comes home,” I was, like, “and
3946 you two are still, like, you know - if there’s some choice words being said
3947 because you guys obviously got into, like, something that’s, you know...”
3948
3949 ((Crosstalk))
3950
3951 Q: Did he ever articulate what their argument was?
3952
3953 ((Crosstalk))
3954
3955 A: He did, and I will get there, but you know, I told him, like, “Just be prepared.” 
3956 You know, ‘cause at this point, like, it wasn’t, like, I was, like, tryin’ to make
3957 her to be a bad person. It was just, like, I didn’t know what was going on. I
3958 assumed that she had left, so I was, like, “Well, when you get back,” because I
3959 knew that they were going through a divorce. It was, like, “Just cover your
3960 bases. You know, try not to be alone. And if you are, just record what you

3961 guys are talking about. So like, at the end of the day, like, nothing bad
3962 happens to you, you know?” And, like, that was kinda how I processed that
3963 whole situation. And so, um, he was, like, “All right.” And then, uh, she didn’t
3964 come home that night. That was Monday night, right? Yes.
3965
3966 Q: We’re talkin’ about Monday.
3967
3968 A: Monday? Monday night. Yes. Um, and he told me, um, what he - this is what
3969 he told me they talked about, and I realize that this was, like, total bullshit.
3970 And I think he’s telling you guys a different story. And I think the reason that
3971 he’s telling me what he’s telling - I think the story he’s telling you is probably
3972 slightly more accurate than the one he told me on this case, and the reason is
3973 because I think he was tryin’ to save his ass with the fact that she’s pregnant.
3974 So he told me, um, that they - that she had asked him to wake her up before he
3975 left for work on Monday morning. And so I don’t know if she did that in a text
3976 or how it was supposedly communicated. Um, but he said that he went to get
3977 her up - which I also found weird. ‘Cause, like, she’s still sleepin’ when he
3978 leaves. ‘Cause he - she gets up with the kids, and they get up shortly after that
3979 but, like, it’s just him in the mornings, you know? And so she w- he
3980 supposedly - he said that she woke up and those two kinda just, like, got in a
3981 disagreement, and I don’t know what all was said, but he was, like, “She was
3982 bein’ pretty mean.” And then he said, uh, “She told me that she’s pregnant,
3983 and she told me that the kid is not mine.” That is what he told me.
3984
3985 Q: So he - “She’s pregnant, the kid’s not mine...”
3986
3987 A: And that she s...
3988
3989 Q: Like, he’s playin’ he didn’t know she was pregnant?
3990
3991 A: Yep.
3992
3993 Q: Until that morning?
3994
3995 A: Yep.
3996
3997 Q: And that it’s not i- she had an affair with somebody else.
3998
3999 A: Yes. And this is before I knew she was 15 weeks pregnant.
4000
4001 Q: Okay.
4002
4003 A: Like, all the stuff on Monday that I read i- from my recollection - ‘cause I
4004 didn’t find out she was pregnant ‘til Tuesday. So anything that got posted on
4005 Monday did not emphasize the fact that she, like, had a baby on board. Um, so

4006 then, um...
4007
4008 Q: Let me ask you somethin’. You said that he usually s- gets up in the morning
4009 and just it’s him and she gets up and takes care of the kids. Is that the routine
4010 that you know for them? Um, or do you know him to get up and, like, prepare
4011 meals prior to him leaving the home?
4012
4013 A: Oh, he gets up and he, like, goes to the gym and he, I mean, works on his
4014 basement.
4015
4016 Q: Uh, what - okay.
4017
4018 A: And, like, makes breakfast. And I don’t know his whole routine.
4019
4020 Q: Does he make breakfast for himself or does he make breakfast for his
4021 children?
4022
4023 A: D- I don’t know. I think - I don’t know. They’re still sleeping at that point.
4024 Like, all I know is he, at one point in some time in this whole thing, he told
4025 me that they usually get up at, like, 6:30 and she gets - she gets them ready
4026 and takes them to school and, like, does all the morning stuff with them, as far
4027 as I know. And then in the afternoons, when he gets home from work, he
4028 kinda does more of the afternoon stuff.
4029
4030 Q: Okay.
4031
4032 A: So it’s kinda, like, a tag-team operation that they have going on, but I think
4033 she does more in the AM and he does more in the PM.
4034
4035 Q: Right.
4036
4037 A: Is kind of how I process that, but I don’t know.
4038
4039 Q: Okay.
4040
4041 A: Um...
4042
4043 Q: So then she’s mean to him and then throws this out?
4044
4045 A: Yes.
4046
4047 Q: That she’s pregnant from another man?
4048
4049 A: And I said, “Do you believe her?” And he was just, like - he said somethin’ 
4050 about, like, “Oh, yeah. Like, she’s - she kinda looked like she was showing

4051 when we were in North Carolina, but I wasn’t sure.” And I’m like, “So you
4052 think she’s pregnant?” And he’s, like, “Yeah.” And I was, like, “Do you think
4053 she’s, like, having an affair?” And he’s, like, “I think she said that out of
4054 spite.” And he’s, like - and I was, like, “Okay.” And then - and, again, like, I
4055 think he’s just saying all this to me to try to cover his tracks with me. Like, I
4056 think w- I don’t know what he told you guys, but I bet it’s probably very
4057 different, and I think that what he said to me - it - it was, like, directed towards
4058 me. Like, this whole bullshit little box lie that he had right there was, like, the
4059 lie directed at me - at me.
4060
4061 Q: Did he say when the arguments started?
4062
4063 A: Nope.
4064
4065 Q: Um...
4066
4067 A: He just said it was in the morning.
4068
4069 Q: Did he say i- did...
4070
4071 A: He said he woke her up in the morning.
4072
4073 Q: Okay. Did he say when she came home? Did he ever let you know that?
4074
4075 A: Uh, I think he w- I want to say he said around, like, 2:00, but I don’t know.
4076
4077 Q: Okay.
4078
4079 A: Um...
4080
4081 Q: And then he woke her for what purpose?
4082
4083 A: ‘Cause she asked him to.
4084
4085 Q: Okay.
4086
4087 A: So I was under the impression that he was asleep. I’m assuming this is how it,
4088 like, went and what he was tryin’ to tell me. Is that he was asleep by the time
4089 she got home, and she sent him a text and said, “Wake me up before you
4090 leave.” And then he woke her up and they got in an argument, and then he
4091 went to work.
4092
4093 Q: Okay.
4094
4095 A: That is how I processed it.

4096
4097 Q: And the context of that argument, again, was just the she’s pregnant and is
4098 there anything else that he shared with you?
4099
4100 A: He did not elaborate on it, and I didn’t ask. I didn’t ask.
4101
4102 Q: W- what were you thinkin’ at that time?
4103
4104 A: Uh, this was, like, on Monday. I don’t - I mean, I - again, at that point, I was,
4105 like - I still thought she left. I mean, this was all on Monday. Like, I
4106 legitimately thought this woman left the premises with her kids and just
4107 wanted nothin’ to do with him for, like, 24 hours.
4108
4109 Q: So his story was believable? That she was pregnant from another man and
4110 maybe she took off for that guy or...
4111
4112 A: I - he - he - I mean, he said several times, like, “I think she just said that out of
4113 spite.”
4114
4115 Q: Okay.
4116
4117 A: Like, he thought she was with one of her friends.
4118
4119 Q: So he sto- held true to that story? Uh, she’s...
4120
4121 A: Pretty much.
4122
4123 Q: She’s just leavin’, and she’s with a friend?
4124
4125 A: That was kinda what he thought. And that’s kinda what he had me believing.
4126 And, at the time, I wasn’t really alarmed, because it’d been, like, a half a day.
4127
4128 Q: Sure.
4129
4130 A: Um, and so then Tuesday rolled around, and...
4131
4132 Q: Did you see him at all on Monday? You said you didn’t. I...
4133
4134 A: No.
4135
4136 Q: Right. Or...
4137
4138 A: I did not see him?
4139
4140 Q: Okay.

4141
4142 A: And I went to work Monday and Tuesday.
4143
4144 Q: Did he ever try to convince you to come see him? Or say he wanted to come
4145 to your house?
4146
4147 A: No, not at all. We were supposed to go look - pick out apartments to go look
4148 at on Wednesday - so yesterday. Um, but, uh, that obviously...
4149
4150 Q: Right.
4151
4152 A: ...didn’t work.
4153
4154 Q: So on Monday you never - he never tried to be convincing to get you to come
4155 up to see him?
4156
4157 A: No, no, no, no, no, no.
4158
4159 Q: Nothin’?
4160
4161 A: Not - not that I’m aware of. I don’t think so, because he - I had - my buddy,
4162 (Jim), was over Monday and Tuesday, and he knew (Jim) was over Monday
4163 and Tuesday. And that’s why we were gonna hang out on Wednesday.
4164
4165 Q: Okay.
4166
4167 A: Um, so no. He didn’t ask me. Um, so Tuesday rolled around, and she still
4168 wasn’t around. And this is when I started gettin’ kinda sick. Like, my friend,
4169 (Jim) was sick on Monday when he came up and I don’t know. I just started
4170 feelin’ like crap as it was. And then, um, I was just kinda havin’ a hard time
4171 focusing and, like, thinking about what was going on. ‘Cause - and I’d asked
4172 him a few times. I’m like, “Where’s your family, Chris? Like, where’s your
4173 family?” You know? And he would tell me, like, “I don’t know.” Or, “I want
4174 them home.” Like, I - it - it - I asked, like, several times. So I think I got
4175 different responses, but each time, like, he didn’t know where they were. You
4176 know? And I’m like, “She’s still not home?” And he’s, like, “No.” And - oh,
4177 and I had also asked him to, like, um - he said he had a friend, (Dave), named
4178 - that was a cop. Which I also find convenient that there’s another (Dave)
4179 working this case, who’s a cop. Um, but he would - I was, like, “Well,
4180 (Dave)’s off. Why don’t you just have him, like, post up outside your house,
4181 too, and see if she shows up?” You know? And he told me on Tuesday
4182 morning - he was, like, “I called (Dave) and asked him to sit outside my
4183 house, and he’s gonna do it.” And he’s, like, “And then my friend, (Nick), is
4184 coming over later on this afternoon.” And I was, like, “Okay.”

4186 Q: Did you ever hear (Nick)’s name before?
4187
4188 A: I’ve actually heard that name a few times. Like...
4189
4190 Q: Okay.
4191
4192 A: ...around him. Like, there’s certain - I never heard “(Dave)” before. (Dave)
4193 was new. But I’ve heard the name (Nick) a lot, so I don’t know if that’s, like,
4194 real or what, but if I was to guess, like, friends that he, like, legitimately has, I
4195 would assume that he was one of them. Um, but yeah. Because I know he’s
4196 told me before, like, when we first started hanging out, that (Nick) lived kind
4197 of in the area and he’s, like, um - he’s, like, “He actually goes” - he’s a trail
4198 runner. And he’s, like, “He runs at East Lake #3.”
4199
4200 ((Crosstalk))
4201
4202 Q: ...in your area?
4203
4204 A: Kind of.
4205
4206 Q: Okay.
4207
4208 A: And I remember him saying that to me once. He’s, like, “You know that park
4209 that we, like, hung out at?” I was, like, “Yeah.” He’s, like, “My buddy runs
4210 over there. We should not go to that park anymore.” And I was, like, “Okay.
4211 Um, that’s cool.” And, uh, anyways, where were we at?
4212
4213 Q: Tuesday morning.
4214
4215 A: Tuesday morning.
4216
4217 Q: We’re almost done.
4218
4219 A: I know. I’m just - I’m just - I’m tryin’ to just keep it all together here for you
4220 guys. Um, Tuesday morning. Oh, so he said (Dave) was gonna stay outside of
4221 his house and (Nick) was gonna come over that afternoon. I was, like, “All
4222 right.” And then, um, I don’t - I think most of the texting throughout that day
4223 was kinda, like, “Have you heard anything? Like, what’s going on?” It was
4224 kinda, like, me checking up on him. Um, and I don’t remember everything,
4225 but it wasn’t a - a - I didn’t even make it through the entire work day. Like, I
4226 was feeling really, really sick. Um, like, in general. And then I decided on my
4227 lunch break to get on the internet and look at what was going on with all the
4228 reports. And I saw a report that was, like, this woman who’s 15 weeks
4229 pregnant and her two daughters are missing. And I was, like, “Whoa. What?” 
4230 And I was just, like, so floored and I read a couple other articles, just to make

4231 sure that - you know how the newspapers are. And, like, just double check.
4232 Like, am I really reading this right? And then I’m like, “Okay.” And sh- he
4233 had told me previously, like, “She says she’s pregnant with another man’s
4234 kid.” But he’d said, like, he could kinda tell in - in North Carolina. But that
4235 girl is, like, obviously pregnant. I mean, in her photos. I mean, 15 weeks.
4236 That’s, like, four months. That’s pretty far along. And so it’s - that’s, like,
4237 how would you not know if she’s showing? Like, you totally know she’s
4238 showing. And so oh my god, I got so sick. I was just, like, “I need to go.” I
4239 just, like, packed my stuff and I left work, and I went home and, uh - I
4240 remember I told (Jim) that I was gonna get home early. And he wanted to
4241 come over right away, and I was just, like - I just needed some time to, like,
4242 process what was going on. But I did tell him - I was, like, “You can come
4243 over earlier than you did yesterday.” ‘Cause he didn’t want to wait in traffic.
4244 That was the thing. He’s, like, “Save me some time.” So I don’t remember
4245 what time he got there. Um, I probably still have that text, ‘cause I don’t have
4246 any reason to delete those. Um, but he - so he came over a little early, but I
4247 did have, like, a gap of time in there. I don’t know how long it was. I bet it
4248 was, like, after I got - from the time I got home to the time (Jim) got there, I
4249 bet it was probably, like - I don’t know. Hour-and-a-half, maybe. Somewhere
4250 around there. Um, and, uh, I remember talking to Chris during this time, and it
4251 was, like, all text. I did not talk to him on the phone at all on Tuesday. And I
4252 was pretty upset, where I was just, like - you know, I was going back and
4253 forth. Like, “Where’s your family?” This and this and this. But I’m like,
4254 “She’s pregnant.” You know? And this and this - and he’s, like, “The baby’s
4255 not mine. The baby’s not mine.” And I’m just, like, “You told me yesterday
4256 that you think that when she said she cheated on you, she did it out of spite.” 
4257 And he was, like, “Yeah.” And I’m like, “So then it’s your kid.” And he kept
4258 denying it. And then, like, he started, like, kinda worrying about us. He’d just
4259 be, like, “Well, does this ruin everything with us?” This and this and this. And
4260 I’m like, “No.” I’m like - and I’m, like, just trying to, like - his situation is so
4261 much more important right now than, like, our situation.
4262
4263 Q: But his main concern is you and him.
4264
4265 A: Kinda, sort of. I mean, and I keep, like, askin’ him. Like - I’m like - and I told
4266 him numerous times, which is also in the texts that you guys will pull - I’m
4267 just, like, “You need to focus on finding your kids and your wife right now.” 
4268 And I was, like, “And you need to focus on finding all three of your kids.” 
4269 And I, like, kept, like, emphasizing to him, like, he had three kids, you know?
4270 And, like, I wasn’t even, like mad about it. I was just like, “You need to find
4271 your family. You need to f-”...
4272
4273 Q: Did he ever go look for them that you know of?
4274
4275 A: Uh, I don’t know. I don’t think so. That, like, doesn’t even, like, ring a bell to

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

 

TIMDAD16AUGROOM

4276 me so I don’t think so.
4277
4278 Q: ‘Kay.
4279
4280 A: Um, but, uh - oh and I forgot something else that’s really important. I will add
4281 it in there, too. But let me just finish this thought. So then, um, Tuesday - were
4282 we talkin’ about - oh. Yeah. So I kept tellin’ him, I was like, “Chris, I know
4283 it’s yours. It’s okay.” I was like, “Go find your family,” you know? And I
4284 was, like - was I - was I hurt? Yes. But at the time, I realized, like, his
4285 situation with what he had going on was, like, way more important than, like,
4286 our situation. And so that’s why I was just, like - like, I had - I confronted
4287 about it and then I was like, “You need to go find them.” And, like, we talked
4288 about it for a little while and then I was just like - I don’t remember exactly
4289 how it went but something along the lines where I was like, “Why can’t you
4290 just be honest with me?” I was like, “Stop lying to me. Like, stop lying.”
4291
4292 Q: Did - did you have an inclination - you’ve talked to this man a lot. And during
4293 this Tuesday, Wednesday conversation, did you feel like he was bullshittin’ 
4294 you? Uh...
4295
4296 A: A little bit kind of, yeah. I mean, because he was like - not Monday. Monday,
4297 I did not. But Tuesday, yeah. That’s when it all started to click. I was like,
4298 “Oh my goodness,” because he was like, “Well” - like, he just didn’t seem as,
4299 like, concerned as he should be and he was, like, super worried about shit with
4300 us. And I’m just like...
4301
4302 Q: So concerned about his family and overly concerned about your relationship?
4303
4304 A: Yes.
4305
4306 Q: ‘Kay.
4307
4308 A: And I kept, like, tryin’ to put it on the back burner. And shame on me for
4309 bringing it up in the first place. I was just really taken back. Like, “Wait a
4310 minute. She’s 15 weeks. Like, how would you not notice that?” Like, I was
4311 just, like - I was confused. And I was also like, “Is he lyin’ to me?” And I
4312 kinda wanted to know because I realized that, like, there’s a situation at hand
4313 here and I’m just like, “What is going on?” You know? And for part of it, it
4314 wasn’t even, like, me trying to find out ‘cause I’m upset. It was almost, like,
4315 me tryin’ to find out ‘cause I’m like, “Is there something else I’m missing
4316 here?” Like, I felt like there was, like, pieces to this puzzle that I didn’t know
4317 existed that were, like, not in place and it was strange. And so, um, anyways I
4318 told him, I was like, “Be honest with me.” I was like, “Don’t lie.” And I don’t
4319 remember exactly how it went but I was, like, tryin’ to emphasize, like, “Stop
4320 bullshittin’ me.” So he told me the truth. And he told me it was his and then
4321 he knew about it.
4322
4323 Q: ‘Kay.
4324
4325 A: I was like, “Okay.” And then he asked me again, like, “Did that ruin
4326 everything?” And I was like, “No, it didn’t.” And in the back of my head, it’s
4327 like, “Yeah, I’m done. I’m not dealin’ with that. Don’t lie to me.” But his
4328 situation is so critical right now that it’s like, I’m not gonna, like, ruffle his
4329 mental feathers because they’re already, like, really ruffled because of the
4330 situation. So, like, out of respect for his mental health, I just, like, dropped it.
4331 And I just kept telling him, like, “We’re okay. We’re okay. We’re okay.” But
4332 then I, uh...
4333
4334 Q: How many times do you think he asked you during these phone calls...
4335
4336 A: Oh it wasn’t a phone call. This was text.
4337
4338 Q: Pardon me.
4339
4340 A: Text Tues...
4341
4342 Q: Text...
4343
4344 A: Text Tuesday.
4345
4346 Q: Text Tuesday. How many times did you think he brought up your relationship
4347 and if you guys were okay?
4348
4349 A: Probably, like, two or three times.
4350
4351 Q: And how many times did he bring up concern for his children or his wife?
4352
4353 A: I think he brought it up a lot, too. I mean, he kept tellin’ me that he was, like,
4354 worried about them.
4355
4356 Q: Okay.
4357
4358 A: I mean, it happened. It wasn’t like he was just, like, spaced out. I mean, he
4359 was definitely showing that, too. I was just surprised that he was, like, also
4360 showing it for me. ‘Cause at that moment, if I had some crazy stuff goin’ on
4361 with somebody in my family, I would be putting all my relationship stuff on
4362 hold like, “Look, like, baby, I gotta deal with this. Someone in my family’s
4363 missing. When I find them, we will talk.” And that would just be it. But that’s
4364 just me. I mean, that’s how I would address the situation. And that’s kinda
4365 how I’ve been, like, gauging how I handled Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday

4366 as, like, “What would I have done?”
4367
4368 Q: Sure.
4369
4370 A: You know? And - and kind of, like, that’s why I didn’t contact you guys on
4371 Monday, because I probably wouldn’t have done that for one of my friends.
4372 And not that I’m coldhearted, it’s just, like - it’s just - uh - uh, that’s just not
4373 how me and my friends work. So it didn’t - you know, so anyways...
4374
4375 Q: There was a - there was extenuating circumstances that you wouldn’t have
4376 known that caused her friends to be concerned.
4377
4378 A: Mm-hm.
4379
4380 Q: Just so you know. I- there’s nothing wrong with you for not goin’, “Oh
4381 something’s wrong,” and not callin’ the police. The people that provided the
4382 information to the police initially had way more information about her than
4383 you do. So that’s why they came forward. So I can see a - I can feel a little
4384 reservation that you’re like, “Why didn’t I do something? Why didn’t” - you
4385 didn’t know enough. I think a normal person on Monday - a reasonable person
4386 is just goin’, “Shit, this woman’s in a w- whacked out relationship with her
4387 husband, she’s got two kids. Now she’s pregnant. She just takes off.” So don’t
4388 blame yourself for not making a phone call to the law enforcement or goin’ to
4389 the poli- you didn’t know anything. So I’m just tryin’ to help you get past that.
4390 Don’t worry about it.
4391
4392 A: Okay.
4393
4394 Q: It’s - it’s not - the - the people that came to us had way more info than you did
4395 regarding what was happening with her life.
4396
4397 A: Okay.
4398
4399 Q: Okay? So...
4400
4401 A: So - thank you.
4402
4403 Q: Don’t get - don’t - don’t blame your- beat yourself up over that. Please don’t.
4404
4405 A: Okay.
4406
4407 Q: Okay?
4408
4409 A: And then, uh, so Tuesday after that conversation, I told him - I was like - I
4410 told him to delete his texts ‘cause I knew he was, like, going crazy texting me.

4411 And I didn’t want any of his friends to see him texting me because they didn’t
4412 - I don’t think they knew about me. It had nothin’ to do with you guys. It was
4413 just, like - I mean, and you’ll see ‘em, you know? But it was...
4414
4415 Q: The secrecy of your relationship.
4416
4417 A: Pretty much. And I - I just, like, feel like he was, like, texting me so much
4418 openly and he had friends there that I was like - I didn’t want them to see that.
4419 And so I was, like, tryin’ to get him to slow down. And then I told him, too,
4420 like, um, after he lied to me, I was just kinda like - I was done. And I was
4421 tryin’ to find a way to, like, get away from the situation without alarming him
4422 or panicking him. So I told him, like, “Everything is all good. I’m still here for
4423 you.” And I feel bad ‘cause, like, I lied to him but I mean, I, like, just tried to
4424 keep him calm and then I told him, like, “Contact me once they find your
4425 family. And then we’ll talk.”
4426
4427 Q: That was Tuesday?
4428
4429 A: That was Tuesday.
4430
4431 Q: Okay.
4432
4433 A: And he sent me a text back saying something along the lines of, like - what
4434 did he say? Something like, “Please just think of - of” - oh and, like, I kept
4435 tellin’ him I was scared. I was really frickin’ scared. In fact, that’s another
4436 thing I’m missing. I’m so tired. Monday night, like, I called him back in the
4437 middle of the night. ‘Cause I could not sleep. I could not sleep at all. And I
4438 remember when I called him, he sounded like he was sleeping. And I was like,
4439 “How the hell can you sleep right now?” I think that’s exactly what I said to
4440 him. And he was just like, “I’m just kinda dozin’ off and on on the couch.” 
4441 And I just remember thinkin’, like, “I haven’t shut my eyes yet and this is not
4442 even my family.” And so that happened on Monday night. Um, so then I was
4443 going somewhere with that that had to do with Tuesday and I forgot what it
4444 was. I’m so sorry.
4445
4446 Q: Take - take a breath and relax.
4447
4448 A: Um...
4449
4450 Q: We’re - we’re almost to Wednesday and then we’re out of here.
4451
4452 A: Yeah. So then, um - yeah, so then once he - he lied to me, I just really tryin’ 
4453 to, like, push him away and he was like, “Just don’t forget, like, the person
4454 that you knew me to be when you were with me,” or something like that. And,
4455 like, it was almost...

4456
4457 Q: That’s - was that strange?
4458
4459 A: It just kinda sounded almost like a farewell. And, like, I didn’t think it was too
4460 weird because I was like, “I think he realizes that I’m up- really upset that he
4461 lied to me and I think he’s aware of the fact that I’m probably about to walk
4462 away from him.” So I think that was, like, his way of, like, saying goodbye.
4463 So it didn’t really seem strange in the context of what was going on between,
4464 like, the him and I part of stuff. And then, um - and I kept asking him, too,
4465 like, “What did you do, Chris? What did you do?” And he was like, “I didn’t
4466 do anything.” And I’m like, “Where’s your family?” And, like, I asked him
4467 that. I don’t know if I started doing that on Tuesday or if I started doing that
4468 on Monday. But I definitely - I think it was Tuesday. ‘Cause I don’t really
4469 think I was that alarmed on Monday. And then, um - uh, so that was supposed
4470 to be, like, our final sign-off text. And then (Jim) got there at my house and I
4471 was hanging out with (Jim). But I was still, like, in my head, just kinda, like,
4472 stressed out. And I remember I, like, walked to the room, went in my bedroom
4473 and texted Chris one more time and I told him, I was like, “If you did
4474 something bad,” I was like, “you’re gonna ruin your life.” And I was like,
4475 “And if you did something bad,” I was like, “you’re gonna ruin my life.” I
4476 was like, “And I promise you that.” And he responded back to me and he’s
4477 like, “I didn’t hurt my family, (Nicki).” And that was, like, the last text. That
4478 was the last time we ever talked. And I never said another word to him after
4479 that.
4480
4481 Q: That was Tuesday?
4482
4483 A: That was Tuesday. And then he left me alone. He gave me the space that I
4484 asked him. He respected it. And he didn’t, like, mess with me at all.
4485
4486 Q: Was that a phone call where you said it? F...
4487
4488 A: No, that’s all Tuesday - text Tuesday.
4489
4490 Q: Text Tuesday.
4491
4492 A: Just call it text Tuesday.
4493
4494 Q: All texts. Okay.
4495
4496 A: Everything was texts. I did not talk to that man on the phone at all that day. I
4497 mean, I don’t think so. I’m pretty sure it was all texts.
4498
4499 Q: ‘Kay.

4501 A: Um, and then, uh...
4502
4503 Q: So at that time in your mind, if you said that, what - what are you thinking?
4504 What - were you thinking that he maybe did something to his family?
4505
4506 A: Yeah. I started gettin’ really scared.
4507
4508 Q: What - what caused that thought?
4509
4510 A: The fact that he lied to me.
4511
4512 Q: Okay.
4513
4514 A: And that she still wasn’t home and it was day two. I figure if you’re upset for
4515 a day, you leave for a day but you come back. And she wasn’t back. And it
4516 was, like, midday. And not only that but, like, she doesn’t have her phone, she
4517 doesn’t have her - her car, she doesn’t have the kids’ EpiPen. She doesn’t
4518 have any of that. So what I’m thinkin’ in my head is like, “For a night, if
4519 you’re really upset, somebody comes, pick - one of your friends picks you up,
4520 like, okay.” But I can’t explain that for two days. Like, that just doesn’t, like,
4521 logically process in my mind as something that any woman I know would do.
4522 The one-night thing, I know women that would do that. But the two-night
4523 thing, no. And so I’m like, “She’s still not back and he just lied to me. And it
4524 made me - like, I just started getting scared. And I remember, like, telling him
4525 that throughout the whole day. Like, I - I don’t even know how many times I
4526 texted him that. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s, like, eight, ten times. I’m just
4527 like, “I’m scared. I’m scared. I’m scared.” And one of the last texts that I sent
4528 to him, too, I told him - I said, “I’m scared because I feel like I don’t know
4529 who you are anymore.” And I s...
4530
4531 Q: And his response to that?
4532
4533 A: I don’t even remember to be honest with you. I think that was, like, in that,
4534 like, sign-off text that I sent to him.
4535
4536 Q: Okay.
4537
4538 A: Um, but I mean, I was. I was, like, kinda scared. I was - what I was really
4539 scared for was scared for his family’s wellbeing because, like, I don’t know
4540 where these people are at this point and it’s scary. I mean, it’s scary that she’s
4541 gone but it’s even more scary to me that these little girls are gone. Like, that
4542 was the part that really freaked me out. Like, if it was just her, I’d be like,
4543 “Well maybe she took off with somebody. Maybe she didn’t. I mean, I don’t
4544 know because she’s a grown woman and she can make those choices.” But
4545 if...

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

4546
4547 Q: Well were some of the scared - was there s- fear in you that people were
4548 gonna find out about your relationship, too?
4549
4550 A: No, I didn’t even care about that at that point.
4551
4552 Q: At that point, there was n-...
4553
4554 A: I was just, like...
4555
4556 Q: Okay.
4557
4558 A: ...scared, like, of the situation. It was just, like, getting escalated and it was
4559 freaking me out. And he was just, like, not - he was strange. So another thing -
4560 so that was Tuesday. And that was it for Tuesday but I forgot some stuff on
4561 Monday that I did need to bring up to you guys. So Monday, um, when we
4562 were on the phone, at one point he mentioned to me - I can’t even believe I
4563 have to say this. She left her wedding ring here and I said something along the
4564 lines of, “Does that mean you two are done?” And he was like - uh, oh my
4565 God. He said, “How much do you think it’s worth?” And I r- like, remember
4566 hearing him say that and being like, “What the fuck?”And I remember
4567 thinkin’ to myself, like, “I don’t even know how to respond to this.” And so I
4568 was like, “I don’t know. Pawn it, man.” And I was just, like - I was like, “I
4569 pawn jewelry all the time.” I was like, “I pawned jewelry a few times.” I was
4570 like, “It’s not worth shit though.” And I was like, “So I don’t know if you
4571 really wanna do that.” And he’s like, “No. No. I think I’m gonna get it
4572 appraised. It’s a nice rock.” And I was just like, “Okay.” And it was, like,
4573 really awkward. And then he, like...
4574
4575 Q: And that was on Monday?
4576
4577 A: That was on Monday night. And that, to me, was, like - it was kinda strange.
4578 And then the Tuesday lying thing - like, I’m telling you, it started, like,
4579 Monday night, him saying that, that was why I couldn’t sleep. ‘Cause he made
4580 the comment about the wedding ring.
4581
4582 Q: Okay.
4583
4584 A: And then Tuesday, her still not comin’ home and then him lyin’ to me. And I
4585 was just like, “Oh my God. Oh my God. Like, what if something happened?” 
4586 And it was, like, really hard for me to put...
4587
4588 Q: When - when you say, “What - what if something happened?” what were you
4589 thinking?

4591 A: Like, what if somebody took her? Like, could he possibly hurt her? And that
4592 was, like, the first time that I really, I think, genuinely considered, “Did this
4593 man hurt his wife?” And it was, like, hard for me to grasp. And, uh, I thought
4594 about it a lot and I - I waited for the night ‘cause I wanted to see if she would
4595 come home. And it was already pretty late. And I had company and I was just,
4596 like, “Let me just see how this plays out.” And, um, my buddy (Jim) left, I
4597 don’t know, probably, like, 9:00 or 10:00. Probably just, like, the same time
4598 he always leaves. And then, um, I couldn’t sleep then. It was really bad. And I
4599 woke up in the morning and I saw the interview that he had with the
4600 newspapers. And he just looked really different to me.
4601
4602 Q: How so?
4603
4604 A: The white in his eyes is gone. They’re, like, a different color now. It’s like he
4605 has no soul. I swear to God. I saw it and I was just like, “Look at his eyes.” I
4606 saw his mugshot. They’re not even the same color. Like, when you guys
4607 retrieve the pictures that are on my phone, look at his eyes then compared to
4608 now. Like, it’s the scariest shit I think I’ve ever seen in my life. It freaked me
4609 out. I was like, “That’s not even the same man that I know.” And it was really
4610 uncomfortable. Um, but anyways I saw that report in the morning and I was
4611 just to the point where I was just like, “All right. Like, something happened.” 
4612 This woman is missing. Whether it was him or someone else, I know, like, a
4613 woman went missing not too long ago in Longmont. Like, I think it was, like,
4614 two months ago or something like that. And you guys - not you guys. But
4615 somebody up there called off the search on her. I don’t think they ever found
4616 her. So I was like, “I don’t know, maybe that’s connected, maybe somebody
4617 came and got her. Maybe he did something. I don’t know.” But I knew, like, it
4618 was a problem. And at this point, I was like, “I’m in a very messy situation
4619 with this man. And I don’t know what to do.” And so I called my dad ‘cause
4620 he’s, like, the only person that I trust with everything in the whole world and I
4621 was just like, “I have a problem.” And I told him everything and my - I was
4622 like - we just discussed it and it was like, “We need to go to cops.” Definitely.
4623 Because I figured you guys would find me eventually but I was like, “I feel
4624 like they need to speak to me. I feel like I’m a very important person for you
4625 guys to communicate with.”
4626
4627 Q: You are.
4628
4629 A: And so, you know - and again, I wish I’d have done it sooner but it just, like -
4630 it just kinda took the sequence of events of his lies and all of his bullshit
4631 falling apart for me to process that I needed to address the situation. And so -
4632 you know, and the time. And so that, to me - and another thing he lied to me
4633 on I caught him on Monday night, he was like - oh it was right after the
4634 wedding ring thing. He was talkin’ about - it might’ve been before. One of the
4635 two. But he was - he was, like, talkin’ about how, um - he, like, reflected on

4636 North Carolina and he was talkin’ about how he wanted the separation and all
4637 this stuff. And I’m like, “Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I
4638 thought you were the one tryin’ to make peace with her and she’s the one who
4639 didn’t want it.” He’s like, “No, I wanted it.” And I was just like, “Okay.” And
4640 another thing on Monday night, his breathing was, like - uh, it was like his
4641 voice would crack sometimes. But I didn’t, like, condemn him for anything
4642 like that because I was like, “Well yeah, he’s probably stressed the hell out.
4643 His family’s gone,” you know what I’m saying?
4644
4645 Q: Sure.
4646
4647 A: So I don’t know. So that happened. And then, um...
4648
4649 Q: He never made any admissions to you about anything that he had done?
4650
4651 A: Nope.
4652
4653 Q: Um, he never said anything about doing - or at any time, not - not just in these
4654 days but during your relationship, did he ever say anything about hurting his
4655 wife, his children?
4656
4657 A: Never. Never.
4658
4659 Q: Did - in - in - on these conversations from Monday to Tuesday, um, did he
4660 ever say that, um, you know, somebody did something to them? Or did he
4661 ever give s- uh - um, an excuse to you how this could’ve happened?
4662
4663 A: No. I mean, he - he was...
4664
4665 Q: Other than they just were goin’ to a friend’s house.
4666
4667 A: Yeah, or he was like, “Yeah, I think she’s, like, with one of her friends. She
4668 doesn’t wanna talk to me,” kinda thing.
4669
4670 Q: So...
4671
4672 A: But other than that, no. I mean, like, he told me, like, “Yeah, she said she was
4673 with another man. But I think it was out of spite.” Like, he never really, like,
4674 held that she was with another dude. Like, sh- he never was like, “Yeah, she’s
4675 with some guy.” Like, she said it but I don’t think she meant it.
4676
4677 Q: Mm-hm.
4678
4679 A: Is kinda what he was, like, directing towards me. But no, he - I think that’s
4680 why I gave him the benefit of the doubt so long. Like, he has always been

 

4681 such a civil, gentle man to me. And he’s always been pretty calm and, like,
4682 levelheaded when he talks about the d- like, the differences between him and
4683 his wife. And I mean, that’s a sensitive subject. And he never, ever seemed
4684 like he was, like, aggressive about it. I mean, he was always just, like, chill.
4685 And he never talked ill of his children. He was always so bubbly about them.
4686 Like, those were his babies. So when all this happened, I was just like, “What
4687 the fuck?” And...
4688
4689 Q: S- so that brings me to a question real quick. I mean, you got - you - I don’t
4690 think anybody over the last six or eight weeks knows this dude better than -
4691 than you. I really don’t. You guys probably spent more time together than
4692 anybody.
4693
4694 A: Mm-hm.
4695
4696 Q: Um, conversation, whatever. Relationship. Um, what do you think - the -
4697 what’s the catalyst for this event? Do you have any - have you had - and I - I
4698 know it’s a hard question but I wanna get it out now we’re here. If - if there’s
4699 a thought that you have, um, that might lead us to understand a little bit why
4700 he might’ve done something like this, um - like I said, I don’t - I met Chris on
4701 - on Wednesday. Um, so I don’t know Chris. Not like you do.
4702
4703 A: Um, you know, I’ve thought about this. And sometimes I think to myself if I
4704 wasn’t in that man’s life, would his family still be alive? And I’ve thought
4705 about this a lot. And I think I can give myself different responses. But in all
4706 honesty, I think they might be alive but not permanently. I do not think that
4707 this man just snapped. I don’t think that he just met some fuckin’ amazing
4708 woman and he was just gonna try to fuckin’ murder his family and then think
4709 that I was okay with, like, building a relationship with somebody who did
4710 something like that. Like, at what fucking point, you know? And not only that,
4711 like, I always try to say, you know, like, “When we get to a point where we’ve
4712 been together long enough, I would love to meet your children.” Like, I never
4713 (discluded) them from anything. Like, I remember comin’ back from
4714 Colorado Springs and I was like, “Oh my God, they got the Cheyenne Zoo
4715 down here. You gotta take your kids. And, like, the - you can feed the giraffes
4716 and they would love it.” Like, I always tried to, like, in- like, show him cool
4717 things like, “Hey, man, would your kids like this? ‘Cause my nephew would
4718 like this. Like, check this out.” You know? Like, I sent him a screenshot of
4719 some rainbow u- unicorn Lucky Charms the other day. I was like, “Do your
4720 daughters know about these? ‘Cause I bet these are epic.” Like, little things
4721 like that where it’s like - like, genuinely - like, I care. I do. Like, despite how
4722 messy this is and how I’m sure I’m gonna be portrayed in the media and
4723 everything, like, I care about, like, his wellbeing with his children and all of
4724 that. And so for me, like, when I think of, “What was he - going through his
4725 head?” I find it really hard to believe that I am the catalyst for all of this. I will

 

4726 be willing to say that I think me being in his life accelerated what was
4727 inevitably about to happen. But I don’t think people just snap. Love does not
4728 murder. Hate and resentment murder. That’s the way I look at that. I do not
4729 know what is the truth anymore and what’s not and I don’t have all of the
4730 details. But this is just my, like, opinion but I’m pretty convinced that that
4731 woman and him did not get along very well and the reason they stuck together
4732 was, “Hey we’re gonna do kids.” And I think they also stuck together because
4733 they were in a very bad financial bind. And I think that she continuously
4734 disregarded it. And I think he messed up because he was too passive to say
4735 anything to her about it and really address it. And it just got to the point where
4736 it’s just like, you file bankruptcy and then what do you do? Just wait 'til you
4737 file the next one? I don’t know. I don’t know what their finances look like
4738 now but from the way it made it sound, it’s probably a pretty stark situation.
4739 And I don’t know if hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt over and over
4740 and over again are enough to lead a man to, like, wanna take somebody out
4741 but I don’t know. I’ve heard of people committing suicide over that shit
4742 before. And I would never justify what he did. I think it’s fuckin’ disgusting.
4743 It’s - ugh. Like, he’s such a fuckin’ pig. But I just - I try to, like, be like,
4744 “Why?” I try to come up with the why. And I really think that he was
4745 struggling with her really bad and not only that, he’s got a third child on the
4746 way and I know he was probably just like, “I can’t fucking afford a third kid.” 
4747 Wants it but can’t afford it, you know? And he always told me he, like,
4748 wanted a little boy. You know? He wanted a third child.
4749
4750 Q: Mm-hm.
4751
4752 A: And so I think that it was just something like I think they were in a financial
4753 situation and I think she was very non-responsive to him trying to - to, like,
4754 solve problems and, like, get out of the situations that they were in. And I
4755 think people just get complacent is what it is. And then, you know, I think, uh,
4756 he met me and I think I was, like, a breath of fresh air for him where it was
4757 like, he could get away and just be like, “You know what? I can be myself. I
4758 don’t have to worry about money right now.” Like, you know, and this girl,
4759 like” - I have my shit together. Like, my life is so, like, very in order.
4760
4761 Q: You seem very, uh, organized and independent and dialed in for a 30 y...
4762
4763 A: Always. Like, I do really good at - I do really good at work, I have, like,
4764 almost a perfect credit score. I’ve been savin’ money for a house. Like, I don’t
4765 mess around. I mean, I did. I screwed up. This is, like, my one screw up ever
4766 and it’s about to be on, like, n- national news. But, um, just very dialed in.
4767 And I think it was, like, a breath of fresh air for him to, like, be around
4768 something like that because I don’t think that he knew that that was, like, a
4769 real thing. And he had told me that, like, numerous times. Like, “I didn’t
4770 know, like, women like you, like, existed.” I was just like, “All right.” Like, I

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

TIMDAD16AUGROOM

4771 don’t - and I - when he meant it, it was just like - like, just, like, the way you
4772 run your life. And so - ‘cause he got married really young, you know? And so
4773 to answer your question, I think inevitably it was going to happen. I think it
4774 just got propelled faster. I mean, I don’t think - I don’t understand what he
4775 would’ve achieved with - if he wanted to be with me that bad, what he
4776 would’ve achieved with me by doing what he did. I think his situation at home
4777 was way, way deeper than anything him and I ever had and it led to that. And
4778 I don’t know what happened in that conversation that they had. But I kinda
4779 have a feeling that it wasn’t even about her pregnancy or another man or me. I
4780 have a feeling it was about money.
4781
4782 Q: So drillin’ down, you think money...
4783
4784 A: I think it’s...
4785
4786 Q: ...for him is the - the biggest downfall? Uh, you guy- I mean, beyond the relat-
4787 really, I don’t know that you know too much about the relationship or the
4788 particulars just other than monetary issues, financial issues. That sounds like
4789 what you guys talked about when you talked about their relationship.
4790
4791 A: I mean, like, he told me other things. Like, they really didn’t, like, sleep
4792 together too much, stuff like that. But I feel like a lot of husbands and wives
4793 don’t do that. But it was like, “Well of course you don’t. That’s why you’re
4794 coming to me.” You know? Um, but, um, no. I think - I think I just - like, me
4795 being in his life just pushed that forward. I honestly think that there’s probably
4796 a good possibility that this would’ve just happened, like, further down the
4797 road where it would’ve just got...
4798
4799 Q: So did you see that i- before yesterday or Tuesday? Or was that just kind of
4800 something that you have reflected on and you’ve thought about this now
4801 goin’, “Man, I - now that I see that in this guy” - or just because of the
4802 lifestyle he was living? And if you didn’t get removed from it, h- this was
4803 gonna happen sooner rather than later like you said?
4804
4805 A: Um, you know, if I was to reflect on anything over, like, the past few weeks
4806 besides, like, the stuff, the last few days where you’re like, “Hey is there, like,
4807 any red flags?” um, I would say, like, no. But one thing I did notice one time
4808 is we were sittin’ on my couch and I was tellin’ him, like, “My house” - I have
4809 a really beautiful house. Like, it’s set up, like, really nice. But everything I
4810 have is, like, from Craigslist or Goodwill. Like, I have pieced it together and
4811 it’s all, uh, like, markdown stuff. And I have pieced it together in a way like,
4812 “It’s pretty, huh? It’s a pretty house.” But you would never guess that, like,
4813 everything I got is, like, super discount. And, um, one day we were sittin’ on
4814 my couch and we were just, like, bullshittin’ about some stuff. And I was
4815 tellin’ him like, “Oh yeah, you know, like, I got this marked down, American

4816 Furniture ‘cause, like, the corner was dented. And, like, I got this one off a
4817 guy on Craigslist. And I put it all” - and I was, like, tellin’ him, I was like, “I
4818 put it all together.” And I was like, “To me,” I was like, “material things don’t
4819 make a home.” I was like, “It’s the energy and the love that you bring to the
4820 home.” I was like, “It’s not about what it looks like.” I was like, “It’s about
4821 what you, like, bring to it mentally.” And he, like, collapsed in my lap and
4822 gave me, like, the biggest, most genuine hug I think that man has ever given
4823 me. And he just laid there. And he was just like, “You are so different.” I
4824 didn’t even say anything. I just, like, put my fingers in his hair and just let him
4825 chill there. And I assumed that it had to do with the finances. But it didn’t,
4826 like, stress me out. It was just, like, this relief sigh where he just, like, dropped
4827 into my arms. And I didn’t, like, really think too much of that event except for
4828 that I was like - this was, like, a - it was, like, a really genuine hug. Like,
4829 collapsed into my lap. Like, just so relieved. And I didn’t really think much of
4830 it until, like, I started reading about, like, their bankruptcy and all this other
4831 shit and I was like, “Oh.” So I think it might’ve been bigger than he let on
4832 ‘cause he never told me about his bankruptcy.
4833
4834 Q: Sure.
4835
4836 A: You know, he just told me about his current financials and he didn’t even get
4837 that in depth but I’m assuming they’re trash. And so yeah, I think - I think her
4838 spending all that money and not listening to him and him not standing up for
4839 himself in a calm and, you know...
4840
4841 A1: Just elevate?
4842
4843 A: Yeah, manner just kinda...
4844
4845 Q: La- last hard question regarding this.
4846
4847 A: Go ahead.
4848
4849 Q: And - and then I - I have just two cursory questions regarding some -
4850 something else and then I think maybe Tim has a few questions for you. But
4851 the - I think what you, um, say about the finances directs - direct- ra- dir-
4852 directly at his wife. Do you think that goes to the children as well? Because
4853 she took, uh - did she treat them like that, like they were gold and they got
4854 everything as well that you know of? Or do you think there’s a separate issue
4855 for why he may have, um, done what he did to his children other than
4856 financial?
4857
4858 A: That part, I don’t have an answer for. I can’t fuckin’ explain that. I don’t even
4859 think there is an answer. I don’t - I don’t even think there’s any sort of, like,
4860 computing up here that could possibly give a rational explanation for why that

4861 would’ve happened.
4862
4863 Q: ‘Kay.
4864
4865 A: I mean, the only thing that I’ve honestly thought of when I play the scenario
4866 over in my head is that maybe they woke up and saw him doin’ in their mom.
4867 And he was like, “Fuck.
4868
4869 Q: ‘Kay.
4870
4871 A: Now I gotta do this, too.” I don’t know. I’m like - I’m like, “Why?” Because
4872 they were, like, his, like, little lifeline, you know? He - he - that was
4873 everything to him, you know? And I get, like, those two have problems.
4874
4875 Q: But he had a great relationship his - but from what you’re accounting is he...
4876
4877 A: With his kids.
4878
4879 Q: ...he loved his children.
4880
4881 A: Yeah. Like, I’m - that part - it just - it’s - oh my g- that’s the worst part of this
4882 whole mess. The worst part of this whole mess. And...
4883
4884 Q: We won’t dwell on it. We don’t have to do that.
4885
4886 A: No.
4887
4888 Q: Let me ask you, um...
4889
4890 A: But - so no, I don’t - I don’t have an explanation. That’s the only thing I can
4891 possibly, plausibly think of is maybe they saw it. But other than that, I don’t
4892 know what the fuck.
4893
4894 Q: Okay. Who’s (Charlotte)?
4895
4896 A: Are you asking me who (Charlotte)...
4897
4898 Q: Mm-hm. Mm-hm.
4899
4900 A: Like, one of my friends?
4901
4902 Q: Mm-hm.
4903
4904 A: Uh, she’s, like, a really good friend of mine. Why?

4906 Q: Did you have some conversations with her regarding another boyfriend?
4907
4908 A: No.
4909
4910 Q: That you might have met on eHarmony? Or did she meet somebody on
4911 eHarmony?
4912
4913 A: No. She’s gay, she doesn’t...
4914
4915 Q: Okay.
4916
4917 A: She’s engaged.
4918
4919 Q: So there’s some text messages that - between - that we got off your phone
4920 obviously.
4921
4922 A: Mm-hm.
4923
4924 Q: Um, and the only reason I’m asking this is because he found out maybe you
4925 had another boyfriend, you understand the - my l- uh, m- my line of
4926 questioning that looked like maybe you had another boyfriend. And I don’t
4927 know if that’s this (Jim) guy...
4928
4929 A: No.
4930
4931 Q: ...that maybe you guys were - no, I’m not sayin’ that he’s your boyfriend. That
4932 - that when we were interpreting the text messages, that it seemed like he
4933 might - you know, “This man came to my house, he has a key to my house,” 
4934 that you’re saying right now.
4935
4936 A: Oh.
4937
4938 Q: When I look at that from my perspective, (Jim) may be another boyfriend for
4939 you.
4940
4941 A: Oh no, no, no, no, no. (Charlotte) is, like, my oldest friend. I love that girl.
4942
4943 Q: So did you have a conversation with (Charlotte) about (Jim)?
4944
4945 A: I mean, sometimes we talk about him. We’re all friends.
4946
4947 Q: W- did - or would - did you guys ever have a conversation about eHarmony?
4948 That’s the - an online...
4949
4950 A: I mean, possibly. I was on there for a while.

4951
4952 Q: Okay.
4953
4954 A: But I didn’t actually ever go out on any dates f- with guys from eHarmony.
4955
4956 Q: Okay.
4957
4958 A: Not one.
4959
4960 Q: Okay.
4961
4962 A: Like, I talked to a couple guys on there but I was like, “No.” I didn’t go on
4963 any dates.
4964
4965 Q: So another - s- the only reason n- would be another potential reason for him to
4966 be upset.
4967
4968 A: No.
4969
4970 Q: And...
4971
4972 A: He knew about (Jim). He’s always known that (Jim) is one of my good
4973 friends.
4974
4975 Q: Okay.
4976
4977 A: And I lay it out at people at the beginning, like, “I have friends that are male, I
4978 have friends that are female. These are my friends. That’s what it is.”
4979
4980 Q: Okay.
4981
4982 A: Like, he never to me seemed, like, jealous of (Jim) by, like, any means. So no,
4983 I’m curious what texts you’re talking about with (Charlotte).
4984
4985 Q: I have m- I have, like, a hun-...
4986
4987 A: I wanna look that - I talk to that girl so much.
4988
4989 Q: I have 153 pages of text messages so I can’t r- if I could pull it up, I would but
4990 I don’t know where it is.
4991
4992 A: I thought you guys just got my texts.
4993
4994 Q: We got, uh - when we asked for everything, we - for seven days, they give us
4995 everything.

4996
4997 A: Oh so why did you need to just do that if you just had ‘em?
4998
4999 Q: ‘Cause I don’t know that it’s - they’re completely accurate. Again, what they
5000 send me is - I don’t have any way to verify that they’re accurate.
5001
5002 A: Got ya.
5003
5004 Q: And - and if you delete a text message, sometimes those are not retained by
5005 carriers. Um, they - they’re still on your hand set. There’s a way to recover
5006 ‘em from your phone.
5007
5008 A: Got you.
5009
5010 Q: But they may not be held - there are certain carriers that don’t even keep text
5011 messages. And I won’t tell you who those people are but they don’t keep ‘em.
5012 We can’t even get our hands on ‘em because they don’t have a database, they
5013 won’t pay the money. They’re stored on your stuff and your stuff only. So
5014 that’s why we ask for it. And some of those things disappear in three days.
5015 Five days. Seven days. Unless we ask them to keep ‘em. And sometimes we
5016 don’t know in time. So that’s why we do it, too. ‘Kay? So just, uh, a q- it was
5017 a question because it also would provide potentially a motive for what Chris
5018 did if - if he found out that you had another boyfriend. And...
5019
5020 A: Why would he kill his family ‘cause I have a boyfriend?
5021
5022 Q: Well he wigs out that he finds out that you have a boyfriend and just loses it
5023 altogether. Do you understand? ‘Cause he’s already losin’ his wife and now
5024 his new girlfriend has another boyfriend. And he just - he can’t - there’s
5025 multiple reasons why it just - it was a concern that...
5026
5027 A: His cheese slid off his cracker. So sad. I don’t know. He’s, like, not even the
5028 same. I look at those, like, mugshots and it’s - they’re scary. They scare me.
5029
5030 Q1: Yeah...
5031
5032 Q: Tim?
5033
5034 Q1: ...that’s what you said about that video, too. It didn’t - I had noticed it was - I
5035 would’ve been a wreck. Woof.
5036
5037 A: I don’t know, I mean, I volunteer with some guys for - when I did the arm-
5038 military stuff that had PTSD and they were tellin’ me when they went through
5039 trauma that they, like, kinda locked up. So, like, I didn’t even think it was the
5040 fact that he was calm that freaked me out. It was, like, his...

5041
5042 Q1: Oh when you were helpin’ those guys out...
5043
5044 A: ...eyes.
5045
5046 Q1: ...when the - from the...
5047
5048 A: Yeah.
5049
5050 Q1: Oh yeah.
5051
5052 A: It was his - like, that part didn’t - ‘cause I was like, “I - I’ve seen” - there’s
5053 these guys that have been at battle that I’ve worked with that are like, “Yeah,
5054 I’ve experienced this. This is how I handle my trauma.” And they’re, like,
5055 very, like, just kinda like zombies. But - so I didn’t hold that against him. It
5056 was just his eyes. Um, the - just the - the light is g- gone from him eyes.
5057
5058 Q1: So let me just finish just with a couple quick questions here but besides the
5059 obvious, you know, and - and what he’s done, uh, do you - was there - what’s
5060 the worst thing about this guy? Did you ever have just some sense - you seem
5061 to be pretty together with who you date, the people you, you know, hang
5062 around with. You - you seem to know a lot about people. Was there some
5063 impression he gave you that was negative?
5064
5065 A: The whole time - like, the whole time we were together?
5066
5067 Q1: Yeah. Anything negative that sticks out?
5068
5069 A: I didn’t think anything negative. I mean, like, I have preferences. Like, I
5070 thought he was, like - I don’t wanna use the word clingy ‘cause that’s fucked
5071 up. He was, like, really - he was a lot more into me than I was into him. And it
5072 didn’t make...
5073
5074 Q1: The entire time?
5075
5076 A: Yeah. I mean, I really enjoyed his company though. I mean, enough so that I
5077 kept everything going despite the situation. And I mean, like, it didn’t scare
5078 me or anything. It’s just, like, I don’t move that fast.
5079
5080 Q1: Okay.
5081
5082 A: So I think things were moving...
5083
5084 Q1: What were his long term plans with you? What did - what did he discuss with
5085 you?

5086
5087 A: Like, I mean, we’d, like, bullshit about it every once in a while and be like,
5088 “Oh yeah” - like, I asked him, I was like, “If you didn’t have that big house,” 
5089 ‘cause he didn’t wanna live in it and he had made it very clear he didn’t pick
5090 that out, he didn’t - none of that. I was like, “Well if you could have a house
5091 that you wanted, what would your house look like?” And he would tell me,
5092 like, “I want a little ranch home. Like, it doesn’t need all these floors. Just a
5093 few bedrooms. Enough space for my kids. Maybe some property so they can,
5094 like, run around. You know, two-car garage, maybe three. Put the old sports
5095 car in there,” ‘cause he liked cars. Stuff like that. You know, I’d tell him, I’m
5096 like, “I’m simple, too. So if you end up doing that and we end up staying
5097 together, let’s do it.” But it was never like, “Sell your house. Let’s go buy a
5098 house.” Like, it was very...
5099
5100 Q1: He ever say anything about gettin’ married?
5101
5102 A: To me?
5103
5104 Q1: Yeah.
5105
5106 A: I mean, w- it was, like, a thing where it was, like, offhandedly, like, “One day,
5107 maybe this will happen.” But again, it was like, these were - I did not take
5108 these as very, like, deep, deep conversations. It wasn’t like, “This is when
5109 we’re gonna get married. This is what’s gonna go on.”
5110
5111 Q1: Okay.
5112
5113 A: You know? Um...
5114
5115 Q1: And you knew him for how long?
5116
5117 A: F- brief.
5118
5119 Q1: In total. Just - not even - not dating him but I mean, when did you - when were
5120 you first aware of him? How long?
5121
5122 A: I don’t know. Probably the beginning of June or maybe May. So, like, two and
5123 a half, three months tops. I mean, this is all, like, really fresh. Like, all of this
5124 is compounded into, like, a very small timeframe.
5125
5126 Q1: Very quick.
5127
5128 A: Yes.
5129
5130 Q1: Has he worked for the company for a while?

5131
5132 A: Yeah. I don’t know how long. I wanna say, like, five or six years off the top of
5133 my head but I don’t know. But he’s...
5134
5135 Q1: Did he supervise people? Do you know anything about that?
5136
5137 A: Uh, yeah, kind of. So he was an operator and the way that operators are set up
5138 at Anadarko was they have operator 1, operator 2, operator 3. But then each
5139 operator is, like, broke down into, like, the basic guy, the medium guy and,
5140 like, the foreman. And then it starts all over again. So he is still on level 1 of
5141 the operators but he’s, like, the top dog on the level one of the operators.
5142
5143 Q1: Okay. The whole time you known him is two or three months? Did he ever
5144 complain of anything, any medical issues whatsoever? Or did you ever pick
5145 up on anything? Does he - is he allergic to anything? Does he have any - you
5146 know, a s- a special diet? Anything that’s - that’s messin’ with him
5147 physically?
5148
5149 A: Not that I’m aware of. Not at all.
5150
5151 Q1: Okay how about psychologically? Did you ever think, “There’s - there’s
5152 something wrong with this guy”? I mean, was it...
5153
5154 A: N- I wouldn’t have dated him if I did. He - honestly - I mean, maybe because I
5155 thought he was, like, one of the, like, most laid back and, like, decent men I’d
5156 ever met and I just haven’t met a lot of people like that. But I mean, no. Not
5157 up until all this stuff started happening. Then I was like, “Whoa. You are not
5158 the person that I thought you were.” Um, but prior to that, n- no. Not at all.
5159
5160 Q1: Okay.
5161
5162 A: I really didn’t. I enjoyed his company.
5163
5164 Q1: You think he was datin’ anyone else?
5165
5166 A: No.
5167
5168 Q1: No way?
5169
5170 A: No.
5171
5172 Q1: Okay.
5173
5174 A: He was way too invested in that.

5176 Q1: Um, was the relationship pretty - was it sexual right off the bat?
5177
5178 A: Pretty close. I mean, like, once we got it to be, like, where we’re hangin’ out
5179 outside of work, yeah. I mean, it wasn’t, like, immediate but shortly following
5180 that, yes. And then it just continued.
5181
5182 Q1: Okay. Pretty consistently throughout the relationship?
5183
5184 A: Mm-hm.
5185
5186 Q1: So kinda hot and heavy. Um, you mentioned that maybe you guys were
5187 sendin’ some photos back and forth. What did - what kinda photos is he
5188 sending you?
5189
5190 A: Well see, he would, like, send me, like, workout photos, stuff like that. He
5191 sent me a couple of inappropriate pictures. I did not request those. I didn’t
5192 even want ‘em. I was just like, “Why do men do this?”
5193
5194 Q1: What - what were they?
5195
5196 A: Oh it was of his - his package. And I’m just like, “Okay cool.” Um...
5197
5198 Q1: Like, his face and everything? Or just...
5199
5200 A: No, no, no.
5201
5202 Q1: Okay.
5203
5204 A: Um, no. That’s it. But I think he only did that, like, one time. It was just like,
5205 “I don’t even really want this.” But usually he would just send me pictures,
5206 like workout pictures, like, progress picture stuff. And I would just kinda keep
5207 him updated. Like - ‘cause he - like, he had some, like, fitness goals in mind.
5208 So I was kinda, like, tryin’ to help him out with that.
5209
5210 Q1: Okay.
5211
5212 A: Uh...
5213
5214 Q1: When was the last time you guys were intimate?
5215
5216 A: Uh, Saturday. Saturday.
5217
5218 Q1: Was that the Broncos game?
5219
5220 A: Uh-huh.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

 

TIMDAD16AUGROOM

 

 

5221
5222 Q1: Where - where would that have taken place?
5223
5224 A: At my house.
5225
5226 Q1: When he went to go pick you up before headin’ up to, uh...
5227
5228 A: He didn’t pick me up. We drive my vehicle. But, um, yeah. Prior to and
5229 immediately following afterwards. So it was like, he...
5230
5231 Q1: So when he dropped you back off...
5232
5233 A: ...he came to my house...
5234
5235 Q1: ...you - you did...
5236
5237 A: ...it happened and then we went out to dinner and he came back to my house,
5238 happened again and then he left.
5239
5240 Q1: Okay. Any other stressors in his life besides finances and - th- that he
5241 mentioned? And his wife?
5242
5243 A: I mean, just the fact that they just - that she doesn’t, like, let him openly
5244 communicate. I mean, but other than that, no. I mean, nothin’ that I really
5245 know of. He was - I mean, we didn’t, like, dive super deep into that stuff. It
5246 was just, like, occasionally there’d be a conversation where it would come up
5247 and I mean, he - it wasn’t even really information that he wanted to provide. It
5248 was just, like, me being curious like, “Why are you separating from her? This
5249 is good to know.” Or, like, “What are your finances like in case I end up
5250 building a life with you?” But it was usually me, like, doing the inquiries. But
5251 I used to try not to be, like, super invasive about that stuff.
5252
5253 Q1: Mm-hm. What are the - in your mind again, just real quick, what are the
5254 things that - that really pop out to you that he would complain about about his
5255 wife?
5256
5257 A: Just that she didn’t listen to him. She, like, never listened to him. She always
5258 just, like, shut him up. Oh and he told me once that she used to, like - like,
5259 kinda, like, talk shit to him in front of his kids and his kids were startin’ to
5260 repeat it.
5261
5262 Q1: Did he give you an example?
5263
5264 A: Yeah, uh, she said - what did she say? He said he tried to ask her for
5265 something and ask her a question. I don’t know. Something he - he didn’t,

5266 like, dive super into this. This was, like, pretty early on. And he - she said, uh
5267 - she told him to shut up and that he didn’t know anything. And his kids
5268 started, like, repeating it. And he said that it made him really sad and he
5269 realized that that was when he needed to separate from her.
5270
5271 Q1: So - and - and he’d never though - he said she was a good mom?
5272
5273 A: Yeah. I mean, he never complained about her bein’, like, a bad mom or
5274 neglectful, anything like that.
5275
5276 Q1: Abusive, anything like that?
5277
5278 A: Nothing. Nothing. When it comes to, like, violence or anger or any of that,
5279 nothing. I mean, and he even said, like, “Yeah, like, so she - she kinda, like,
5280 gets bossy with me sometimes but as far as, like, arguing back and forth,” he’s
5281 like, “that never happens.” He’s like, “We don’t fight like that.” So I don’t
5282 know. He seemed pretty, like, even-keeled with stuff so...
5283
5284 Q: And just, uh - did they talk about how they disciplined their kids at all?
5285
5286 A: I never asked. I felt like that was not my place.
5287
5288 Q: Di- and he never mentioned it?
5289
5290 A: Nope.
5291
5292 Q: That’s all I was (unintelligible). Just making sure nobody else...
5293
5294 A: What time is it? I bet it’s so late.
5295
5296 Q: It’s 8 o’clock.
5297
5298 A: Damn.
5299
5300 Q1: Yeah, it’s...
5301
5302 Q: It’s time to go. You have my card. Y- things will probably come to your mind
5303 in the next day, week, month, year. Especially as you get some sleep and - and
5304 recover here. Please don’t hesitate to call me. My email’s on there. You can
5305 email me. The business phone number on there is not accurate. I used to work
5306 in our Pueblo office until...
5307
5308 A: So what is it?
5309
5310 Q: ...July. Just call my cell phone. I’m never in my office anyway. So...

5311
5312 A: Okay.
5313
5314 Q: Okay? My cell phone will always be the same. So just call my cell phone.
5315 Um, and - and I will respond to you as soon as I can. If - if you need, uh, you
5316 know, to send me an email, again, you can send an email to me. Okay? If I
5317 can help you in any way with some services to deal with the obvious trauma
5318 that you face, let me and I’ll get you in touch with the people that can help
5319 you. Um, also, uh, if you have issues with anybody intimidating you in any
5320 fashion, I will tell you right now, I have zero tolerance for that. Zero. I will
5321 charge anybody if I can prove it and I will take them straight to jail. Period.
5322
5323 A: Thanks.
5324
5325 Q: You are not - you’re not a suspect in anything, you’re merely a witness.
5326 Unfortunately for you, you met a man who did some terrible things. And I will
5327 not - I - I won’t stand for it. I - through my career period, zero tolerance. Uh,
5328 you will go straight to jail. You call me immediately and I will handle it.
5329
5330 A: I appreciate that.
5331
5332 Q: ‘Kay? And finally you probably eventually are gonna get media inquiries.
5333
5334 A: When are you thinking this is gonna happen?
5335
5336 Q: I don’t think it’s gonna happen soon. I really don’t. I will tell you today that
5337 there was an inquiry from a media member requesting to know if there was
5338 any other people involved in Chris’s life. Um, you know, is - I think they’re...
5339
5340 Q1: Fishing.
5341
5342 Q: ...the story is - they’re - they’re searching. But - but there is no - there’s only a
5343 multiple couple of time - reasons that somebody would think what would
5344 cause this. Are they...
5345
5346 A: Well, uh, they’re seein’ the financial stuff, they’re postin’ it.
5347
5348 Q: Right. And...
5349
5350 A: I’m seein’ it.
5351
5352 Q: So I think there’s a buffer for you for a couple of reasons. I told you today I - I
5353 did not see the affidavit. I don’t think your name was mentioned in it. I -
5354 there’s no reason for it I don’t think at this time for his arrest. When, uh, the
5355 affidavit becomes public, which I think they mentioned may be early next

5356 week, um, that’ll keep the m- media busy for a while. Um...
5357
5358 A1: Oh so her name wasn’t in it that you think?
5359
5360 Q: I don’t think your name was in it.
5361
5362 A: (Mark) said he didn’t publish that thing yet.
5363
5364 Q: Right.
5365
5366 A: So if he hasn’t...
5367
5368 Q: He - um, so I talked to (Mark) this morning and I know he has not written a
5369 report. Now I do know that he did talk to, um, the people yesterday just
5370 regarding her because it was important for some of the things we were doing
5371 yesterday. Again, I don’t think your name appears in that report. Um, so - but
5372 don’t hold me to that. I - I didn’t write the affidavit. But, uh, a- from - from
5373 what I know, it doesn’t. So at some point, this - your name is gonna come out.
5374 I mean, there’s just no way it’s not. And - and like I told you, I won’t...
5375
5376 A: So when do you think that is? Like, when we take this to trial?
5377
5378 Q: Um...
5379
5380 A: Like, at what point - because nobody knows about this.
5381
5382 Q: Right. But Chris does.
5383
5384 A: Yeah. I don’t think he’s in any rush to tell the media anything. I mean, maybe.
5385
5386 Q: These are mi- mitigators that he - in his mind or - uh, y- and you got a phone
5387 call from the public defender’s office. Whether you talked to them or not,
5388 that’s your business.
5389
5390 A: I did not.
5391
5392 Q: You didn’t?
5393
5394 A: I did not.
5395
5396 Q: Oh I thought you did.
5397
5398 A: I did not.
5399
5400 Q: Hm.

5401
5402 A: I didn’t know what to do. (Mark) said to ask you what to do.
5403
5404 Q: Okay so they - did they reach out to you?
5405
5406 A: Yep.
5407
5408 Q: Okay. You can - your decision. You don’t have to talk to ‘em or you can. Um,
5409 I - I won’t say either way. Uh, you have to make that decision for yourself.
5410
5411 A: I don’t really know what to do. I feel like if I talk to them, they’re either
5412 gonna try to, like, find some holes in my story or try to get me to, like, be
5413 Chris’s only ally and I don’t really feel like dealing with either one of those.
5414
5415 Q: Then I think you’ve made up your mind.
5416
5417 A: Yeah. I don’t want to...
5418
5419 Q: So then maybe confide in your father.
5420
5421 A1: No, that’s - we were talkin’ about that.
5422
5423 Q: Yeah.
5424
5425 A: Sh- we already talked.
5426
5427 Q: Um, I can’t really give you legal advice. They have every reason to want to
5428 talk to you. Just like if they got to you before I did, I would wanna talk to you,
5429 too. You understand what I mean? And I won’t hamper with their
5430 investigation is or anything. They - they want information, too. Certainly.
5431 They have a client that they’re tryin’ to protect and - and make sure that
5432 everything that we’re looking at is - is the same thing that they would wanna
5433 look at.
5434
5435 A1: But they can get it from you.
5436
5437 Q: They will get it from us.
5438
5439 A1: So...
5440
5441 Q: It’ll be, uh - in discovery, they’ll get, um, everything that we’ve talked about
5442 here.
5443
5444 A1: It’s in discovery.

5446 Q: And that’s - so when that happens, which is pretty short order, uh, the reports
5447 that we will generate, everybody involved in this case will be sent to the
5448 public defender’s office. I think at that time, you might, uh, find that - that,
5449 um, i- y- there could be some exposure for you. Um, so, uh, I am not gonna
5450 tell anybody who you are. If somebody called me today, I - I don’t talk to the
5451 media. I don’t have any business talkin’ to the media. (Mark) has no business
5452 talkin’ to the media. They don’t need to know who you are. It - your part in
5453 this is not relative to anything they - you know, to the story. I- for me. It - it -
5454 it’s nothing that they need to know. And, um, I don’t ever give information to
5455 anybody.
5456
5457 A1: Okay.
5458
5459 A: They’re gonna dwell on it though. They’re gonna try to use that as his why. I
5460 don’t think it’s his why. I really don’t.
5461
5462 Q: That’s why we a- I asked you that question.
5463
5464 A: You know...
5465
5466 Q: ‘Cause you think his why is financial.
5467
5468 A: Yeah.
5469
5470 Q: Uh, and whether or not we ever know what his why is, I don’t know.
5471
5472 A: Did he tell you guys what his why was?
5473
5474 Q: I can’t tell - discuss it with you.
5475
5476 A1: So, um, just a - a quick open question, the way the legal system runs, is it, um
5477 - if he totally confesses and pleads guilty, is there a reason for a trial? Or do
5478 they just pack enough discoveries together that this proves what he said and...
5479
5480 Q: S- so the purpose of...
5481
5482 A1: ...and he goes to a kinda court and it’s done? Or...
5483
5484 Q: The purpose for discovery is we have to sh- we’re obligated by law to share
5485 everything that we know with, um, the public defender or a private attorney.
5486
5487 A1: Absolutely. Right. Okay.
5488
5489 Q: Um, it doesn’t go the other way. Uh, they don’t have to share anything with
5490 us. So we are obligated to give them everything we have. No matter what

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

 

 

TIMDAD16AUGROOM

5491 happens. Um, I can tell you right now, probably sometime early this week will
5492 be his, you know - he’s gonna enter a plea. Either I’m guilty or not guilty.
5493 That will probably be sometime Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday of this coming
5494 week. W- I would imagine, uh, from what I heard today. Now it might be a
5495 little more delayed. And then that starts the legal process. So, uh...
5496
5497 A1: But if he pleads guilty though...
5498
5499 Q: If he pleads guilty, um, you know, could that happen today? Cer- certainly. I
5500 mean, he could go to his attorneys - you’ve seen it happen before. Um, if he
5501 pleads guilty, is that information still available? Absolutely. Because there’s
5502 still, uh, got to be legal process...
5503
5504 A1: Mm-hm.
5505
5506 Q: ...regarding is he competent to stand, uh, for - can he make that plea? I- are -
5507 are the attorneys gonna allow him to do so?
5508
5509 A1: All the stuff.
5510
5511 Q: You - you know what I’m talkin’ about.
5512
5513 A1: Yep. Okay.
5514
5515 Q: So tha- all that information still goes to them. Um, and then that would play
5516 into, you know, potentially what is the sentence, what - what could be the
5517 penalty, all those things have to be looked at by attorneys. So, um, there is no
5518 not them ever getting her name. Uh, it is gonna be there at some point. And,
5519 um, I don’t know - I - I understand your fear. A- and that’s why I told you that
5520 if anybody m- I don’t care if somebody calls you and says, you know,
5521 anything minor, you call me and let me know please. I won’t...
5522
5523 A: I appreciate that.
5524
5525 Q: I will not stand for that, okay?
5526
5527 A: Well I’m (unintelligible)...
5528
5529 A1: So it’s the - it would be - the news people would be the only ones that - and of
5530 course they already know what to...
5531
5532 A: God, work is gonna be such a mess, too. That’s gonna be, like, a whole
5533 ‘nother level. Like, everybody at my work I heard was so, like, just damaged
5534 and broken today. And then it’s like, “Let’s just add (Nicki) into this whole
5535 mix.” It’s not gonna be good for all of their m- like, mentally either. It’s just

 

5536 gonna be a mess.
5537
5538 A1: Maybe your employer could transfer you to another business.
5539
5540 Q: I think that’s a fair state- I will tell you right now that I - Anadarko has been
5541 very, very helpful with us and is very concerned about their employees in this
5542 event. Um, and I - I’m tired, too. Uh, but you may - uh, your employ- your
5543 employer definitely n- is - has an indication of your relationship with Chris I
5544 would think.
5545
5546 A: They’re not my employer.
5547
5548 Q: Oh that’s right, you work for a different company.
5549
5550 A: Yeah, but...
5551
5552 A1: But...
5553
5554 A: ...you’re saying...
5555
5556 Q: I think...
5557
5558 A: ...Anadarko has an in- has knowledge of that.
5559
5560 Q: Well f- maybe...
5561
5562 A: Who are you talkin’ about? Tasman or Anadarko?
5563
5564 Q: Uh, I don’t even know what Tasman is.
5565
5566 A: Tasman is the people that cut my check and I’m contracted out to APC.
5567
5568 Q: So I think people n- um, sus- have suspicion that there was a relationship
5569 Chri- with Chris. Not saying you but they may know that - I think there was
5570 some suspicion that he was havin’ a relationship with somebody else. Not
5571 your name specifically. But if you went to your bosses and said, “I have an
5572 issue that I don’t” - you know, like your dad’s saying, I think that you might
5573 find that they’ll just get you out of there.
5574
5575 A1: See, that’s what - and - and that’s what we were talkin’ about today ‘cause
5576 they probably have a policy for, um, psychological health, they probably have
5577 a policy for, uh, inquisitive, you know, people buggin’ other employees. Uh,
5578 that’s a big company with a lot of HR and there’s...
5579
5580 Q: Do you have an employee assistance program? EAP?

5581
5582 A: I don’t - uh, oh yeah. That - so that - they were there all day today. But it’s
5583 like I got so many calls today from people I work with.
5584
5585 Q: Those are questions that you can ask them anonymously and that information
5586 is retained.
5587
5588 A1: See, that’s what I was sayin’ because if...
5589
5590 A: So what am I supposed to do, tell my boss?
5591
5592 A1: Well - well what - no, but they’re - your boss isn’t gonna want rumormongers,
5593 they’re not gonna want, uh, people f- stressin’ you out, they’re not gonna wait
5594 - they don’t want erratic workflow, they don’t want any of that. So they’ll -
5595 they’ll probably do a broadcast letter of, “Anybody that was friends,
5596 acquaintances of it...
5597
5598 A: They already did. They already dealt with all the (unintelligible) stuff today.
5599
5600 A1: ...or anything else, please respect that employee’s feelings.” And right there,
5601 “Oh and by the way, if any of you have a problem (unintelligible), you can
5602 call Mickey Mouse at” - you know, and that - and that’s probably...
5603
5604 A: See, but...
5605
5606 A1: ...they probably have a policy with that.
5607
5608 A: Here’s the problem though.
5609
5610 A1: And I’m hopin’ that they do.
5611
5612 A: I don’t work for them.
5613
5614 A1: But they can still protect you under that.
5615
5616 A: But if they, like, transfer me, like, they’re gonna be like, “You’re not even our
5617 employee.” Like, I’m pretty sure I’m about to lose my job over this.
5618
5619 A1: No, I...
5620
5621 Q: No, you’re not gonna - why would you lose your job?
5622
5623 A: I don’t know, ‘cause I feel like people are just gonna complain about being
5624 uncomfortable with working with me. Like, I - I am not gonna have any
5625 respect from anybody there. I think I’ll have, like, two people that still...

5626
5627 Q: You really didn’t do anything wrong.
5628
5629 A: I had an affair was married man who lied to me and made me believe that he
5630 really wasn’t, like, as married as I think he was. But the media is not gonna be
5631 so kind to let everybody know that. I think people are gonna think I’m, like,
5632 the reason that he went off the deep end.
5633
5634 A1: Well when...
5635
5636 Q: That’s prob- probably a fair statement. I would probably agree with you to
5637 some effect but if these people, you know ‘em at work then you...
5638
5639 A1: And the company will...
5640
5641 Q: Protect you at some point.
5642
5643 A1: The company will buffer that as much as they can because if not, it’d be - it’d
5644 be chaos amongst employees and they can’t have that.
5645
5646 A: I’m just so sad. Like, this is, like...
5647
5648 A1: It’s just not good in their - their best interests.
5649
5650 A: ...the job of all jobs I’ve ever had in my life and I fucked it up.
5651
5652 A1: It’s really...
5653
5654 A: Aw...
5655
5656 A1: Well she been out in the field - what, you been home, uh, three months of the
5657 year on an average...
5658
5659 A: Not even.
5660
5661 A1: ...in s- staggered amount out in the middle of nowhere on oil rigs. This little
5662 thing was out hangin’ on oil rigs and now they got her in environmental where
5663 she’s able to clean up stuff.
5664
5665 Q: Right.
5666
5667 A1: And it’s a hot job, man. It’s just a hot job. And...
5668
5669 Q: I - y...

5671 A: I mean, would you advise me...
5672
5673 Q: I wouldn’t start...
5674
5675 A: ...talking to, like, my head higher-up?
5676
5677 Q: I can’t give you legal advice. Maybe the best thing to do on that is talk to your
5678 EAP, whoever the - the employees assistance people are. They’re anonymous
5679 , they know all your HR rules, they know all your policy and procedure stuff
5680 and, “How do I - h- h- how can I mitigate this?”
5681
5682 A1: Fair (unintelligible).
5683
5684 Q: And also f- the - your problem, too, is not just - i- is this gonna become, uh, an
5685 environment where you can’t work? Um, you know, so you have to call those
5686 people and say, “I don’t want this to happen so how do we take care of it? I
5687 wanna continue to work for you guys. I love my job.” Whatever. Um, you
5688 know, just be proactive. I don’t know, um, your bosses on site.
5689
5690 A: Yeah, she’s pretty cool. I don’t know. She’s...
5691
5692 Q: I think that’s a personal decision you have to make.
5693
5694 A1: Yeah. But I - I don’t think...
5695
5696 A: Yeah. I mean, I didn’t even think about talkin’ to them at all but I keep
5697 thinkin’ about ‘em like, “Man, when my name gets out in the news, this is
5698 about to be crazy.”
5699
5700 A1: No, like, uh, w...
5701
5702 A: Like, I had people call me all day. Like, my office mate would not shut up.
5703 She just called me today and she was just like, “Oh my God, did you read this
5704 article and this article? And what did you think? And oh my God. And this
5705 and this,” and I’m just like, “I don’t - I don’t wanna talk about this. Please
5706 leave me alone.” And, like, it was really overwhelming. And my project
5707 manager called me and he’s really chill so we made it a very quick
5708 conversation. But some people just, like, didn’t get it. And it’s so hard to me
5709 ‘cause I feel like I’m...
5710
5711 Q: I would get in front of it.
5712
5713 A: ...lying to them.
5714
5715 Q: I’d get in front of it. N- don’t...

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

 

 

TIMDAD16AUGROOM

5716
5717 A1: Yeah, because the company...
5718
5719 Q: Make a decision.
5720
5721 A1: It - I don’t think it would be in their best interest legally, morally or profit-
5722 wise to have a bunch of junk goin’ on. They would suppress it to keep it at
5723 least where everybody’s treated with respect throughout the company. This is
5724 a tough situation. It d- l- you know, they’ll put the - the presidential speech in
5725 it but...
5726
5727 A: I mean, I could do that job, like, 75% of that at home.
5728
5729 A1: Yeah, I would...
5730
5731 A: I’ve already been thinkin’ about that. I was thinkin’ about just askin’ 
5732 (Unintelligible) like, “Hey, man, just let me come in at, like, 5:00 in the
5733 morning and deal with the gas monitors, like, two days a week. No one will
5734 even know I’m there.
5735
5736 A1: And I believe that...
5737
5738 A: And let me just work at home.”
5739
5740 A1: ...they probably made a statement on that - what do you call it? OHP or...
5741
5742 A: EAP.
5743
5744 Q: EAP.
5745
5746 A1: EAP.
5747
5748 A: They put out a notice today.
5749
5750 A1: If they put that out and it says your confidentiality will be respected...
5751
5752 Q: It has to be.
5753
5754 A1: If that got leaked through an HR department and that got out after you told
5755 ‘em something, that would not be good for...
5756
5757 Q: Em- employment law is very strict on that kinda stuff and...
5758
5759 A1: Yeah, so I - I think you should just atta- not attack it but be proactive in it and
5760 snuff it because

5761
5762 A: And what, just go tell my boss, like - not what I told you guys but, like, a
5763 summed up version of it like, “Hey...
5764
5765 Q: But they - they...
5766
5767 A: ...my name is about to get released in the media and there’s a lot of stuff tied
5768 to me that’s tied to”...
5769
5770 Q: I don’t know if I’d do that in that fashion. I might j- you just need to figure out
5771 a tactful way to do that. And perhaps an employment - there’s attorneys that
5772 deal with employment law. Um, and maybe you wanna reach out to one of
5773 them. That might help you. I don’t know. Um...
5774
5775 A: Ah, damn.
5776
5777 Q: You know, uh, it - it’s - it’s a decision that you might need to make or you
5778 might wanna talk - I think I would talk to EAP first ‘cause it’s not gonna cost
5779 you any money. Um, but...
5780
5781 A: See if they’ll do something - I hope so ‘cause they’re not actually my
5782 employer so that...
5783
5784 Q: Well they’re an outside, uh, agency that just knows what’s going on.
5785
5786 A1: But both c...
5787
5788 A: So yeah, I don’t know so sh...
5789
5790 A1: Both companies, it would be in their best interest to protect everybody
5791 including all the foremen he worked with, apprentices he worked with. I
5792 mean, all of those people have a lot of information, too.
5793
5794 A: Not like me.
5795
5796 A1: But again, they don’t wanna hear it, they don’t wanna have - you know, they
5797 don’t wanna talk about it. They have the same rights. So it would be a
5798 company-wide thing. So I would just...
5799
5800 Q: On the media stuff...
5801
5802 A1: We’ll work on that.
5803
5804 Q: Yeah, I think you’ve got a grip on that. Um, on the media stuff for you, I
5805 wouldn’t talk to the media. Just tell ‘em you don’t have any comment and for

 

5806 you, probably the same. And if they just persist, um, you - you know, maybe
5807 per- put somebody - it - it seems like your dad is your - your biggest
5808 confidante here and maybe make a brief statement. If - you know, “My
5809 daughter doesn’t wanna say anything. Have a nice day.” Whatever. You
5810 know, ‘cause if you appease ‘em a little bit, sometimes they’ll go away. Um,
5811 that would just be my suggestion. Um, don’t talk to them. The - you don’t
5812 need to.
5813
5814 A: I’m not going to. I guess they’re gonna make their own assumptions. You,
5815 uh...
5816
5817 Q: But, um, so...
5818
5819 A1: So does your neighbor, so does the p...
5820
5821 Q: Right.
5822
5823 A1: ...guy that’s stopped at the red light.
5824
5825 Q: They’ll be talk- as soon as they figure out who you are, they’re gonna talk to
5826 your neighbor and they’re gonna say, “Oh yeah, I saw Chris, you know, and
5827 her together, you know?” Whatever. You know it’s gonna happen. Just
5828 prepare yourself and then it won’t be - there - there - there’s an...
5829
5830 A: Are they gonna, like, swarm my house?
5831
5832 Q: I don’t think so.
5833
5834 A: No? They were, like, swarmin’ his. He told he that, he’s like, “There’s media
5835 everywhere.” And it’s just like, “I hope that does not happen to me.”
5836
5837 Q: Well - yeah.
5838
5839 A: I mean, I have, like, a little - I have, like, a safe house in Denver that I can go
5840 to that I have the keys to...
5841
5842 Q: There you go.
5843
5844 A: ...that has nobody there ever.
5845
5846 A1: That’s what we’re - that’s what we’re thinkin’ for the next couple weeks.
5847
5848 A: And that’s - all I have to do is check the mail and there’s no questions asked
5849 and nobody knows where it is and I’m not telling anybody. But it’s, like, a
5850 really nice spot for me to, like, hide out...

 

5851
5852 Q: Go there.
5853
5854 A: ...and I don’t have any friends in that building. I mean, it’s an apartment but
5855 it’s - it’s safe.
5856
5857 A1: And we will answer your phone calls but the same house is from...
5858
5859 Q: Go - go there.
5860
5861 A: The safe house is the safe house.
5862
5863 A1: ...people bangin’ on her apartment door.
5864
5865 A: When should I go there? When do you think all this is gonna start happening?
5866 I mean, it’s kinda...
5867
5868 Q: I mean, might be just good for you to go there anyways for your sanity. And
5869 stay away from this place that you had a connection to this man with and get y
5870 really thoughts in order and...
5871
5872 A: That’s so sad. That was my nest. It was, like, such a warm little place.
5873
5874 A1: That was your...
5875
5876 A: And now it’s like, I haven’t even slept in my bed. I’ve just been sleeping on
5877 the couch with the dog. I don’t even wanna do it.
5878
5879 Q: What other questions can we answer before we go? I - I kn- I don’t foresee
5880 talkin’ to you again regarding this. Now an attorney might review something
5881 and go, “Hey can you ask her another question?” Um, and that would be a
5882 long ways down the line. I don’t think there’s anything else. I let you talk for a
5883 long time today to get it all out. Um, so we don’t have to do this again ‘cause I
5884 don’t wanna traumatize you again. Um, but if there is important things that
5885 come up, please know that I do wanna talk to you about those. Other things
5886 that we haven’t talked about today or if something just - I mean, “I gotta tell
5887 him,” just call me.
5888
5889 A: I mean, like, some things I thought were really important, like, the other day,
5890 like, I didn’t mention the wedding ring thing and then I was like, “That was
5891 really creepy. I should probably tell them about that.”
5892
5893 A1: And yeah, the...
5894
5895 A: And you got those cards.

5896
5897 Q: Yeah, um...
5898
5899 A: I gave you those cards.
5900
5901 Q: So you gave me cards and there was clothing in there.
5902
5903 A: Yeah, I just - I don’t care what you do with it all. I just don’t want it.
5904
5905 Q: The clothing - wa- was any of the clothing anything he wore this weekend? Or
5906 is it stuff that was from...
5907
5908 A: No, no, no. It was, like, stuff that he brought over, like, prior to that.
5909
5910 Q: Okay.
5911
5912 A: None of that - like, some of it’s been washed and folded since then. Yeah, I
5913 just wanted it out of my house and didn’t wanna throw it away.
5914
5915 Q: We’ll - we’ll take care of it.
5916
5917 A: So you guys can deal with it.
5918
5919 Q: We have it. We’ll take care of that. Um, if I have questions on the context of a
5920 text message, I might just call you and say, “The hell does this mean?” ‘Cause
5921 I might not understand what you were talkin’ about.
5922
5923 A: Okay.
5924
5925 Q: If that’s okay with you. Um...
5926
5927 A: Yeah, that’s fine.
5928
5929 Q: If - if it’s - I’m not gonna bother you unless it’s really important. I - ‘cause I
5930 think I have everything I need from you today.
5931
5932 A1: Okay yeah, we just wanted to make sure you guys had it so that...
5933
5934 Q: Well and we don’t - I d- I don’t...
5935
5936 A1: You could find the right person or something and get it done.
5937
5938 Q: We don’t wanna do it again. Yeah. And we know we have the right person.
5939 And I’m sorry that you’re involved. I am. It’s never a good time to say
5940 anything like that but it’s - it’s a bad deal, this whole thing is. And this is one

5941 of the tougher cases that I think - I’ve been doin’ this a long time. It’s - you
5942 know, it’s tough. So for you to - it’s even tougher and don’t forget to reach out
5943 to somebody for your sanity. Like I told - I asked you downstairs a question
5944 and you said, “No.” You remember what question I asked you, right?
5945
5946 A: No. You know how many questions you’ve asked me tonight?
5947
5948 A1: Did you want a pizza?
5949
5950 Q: Well he’ll a...
5951
5952 A: Pizza. I love pizza.
5953
5954 Q: Well I want food, too. I asked you if you had any, um conce- I asked if sh- I
5955 should be concerned at all about you hurt - hurting yourself.
5956
5957 A: Oh. No. I don’t feel the need to do that.
5958
5959 Q: Right.
5960
5961 A: I just want people to leave me alone.
5962
5963 Q: And if you...
5964
5965 A: I just feel like I wanna, like, hide for a little while while all of this is
5966 happening.
5967
5968 Q: Just please reach out to your family or even me and if there’s any - if you have
5969 any things that’s struggling, I w- like I told you, there’s people I could put you
5970 in touch that will talk to ya. I’m not a psychologist, I’m not - that’s not what I
5971 am. But people sometimes that get caught in these situations, they end up
5972 having lots of emotional issues and you need to address ‘em. Don’t just hide
5973 that stuff, okay?
5974
5975 A: All right. Um, are you guys gonna help me if we go...
5976
5977 Q: You’re super - you’re super, super intelligent so...
5978
5979 A: I appreciate that. That’s a nice compliment. When we go to, like, trail for this,
5980 if that’s what he so feels the need to take this to, um, are you guys gonna help,
5981 like, coach me through these questions?
5982
5983 Q: Of course. So we would be there, um, to re-discuss our conversation today,
5984 the conversation you had with (Mark) and then an attorney would, um, talk to
5985 you prior to any questioning on the stand regarding what kinda questions

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

 

TIMDAD16AUGROOM

 

5986 they’re going to ask you. And r- really the only thing you have to remem- I
5987 mean, if you’re worried about your recollection or your recall or, you know,
5988 how you might remember this, everybody worries about that. Even we do. We
5989 spend hours on the stand and it’s very difficult. But the only thing you have to
5990 remember is tell the truth. And the truth will never change in your mind. You
5991 know what happened during these six weeks. You know what happened on
5992 Monday and Tuesday. And as long as you tell the truth then d- you - there’s
5993 nothing to be worried about. If you don’t remember something, you don’t
5994 remember it. Um, might they pick on ya a little bit about that? Absolutely.
5995 They usually pick on us a lot more than they do you guys. So, um - but y-
5996 that’s so far down the road. I mean...
5997
5998 A: I mean, how long are we talkin’? Like, how long is this whole process gonna
5999 take?
6000
6001 Q: That could be - well - so he has the right to a speedy trial once he makes a
6002 plea, which is 45 days. Do I think that’s gonna happen? Absolutely not. I can
6003 tell you that the majority of the homicides that I work on average somewhere
6004 between one and three years.
6005
6006 A1: Yeah, look at the clown man.
6007
6008 A: So I gotta just deal with the media like...
6009
6010 A1: With the theater.
6011
6012 A: ...knockin’ on my door like that for, like, three years? ‘Cause that’s, like,
6013 enough to go cr...
6014
6015 Q: Your - this case will be hot until the next unfortunately crazy case comes up.
6016 And - and you know it’s true.
6017
6018 A: That’s just...
6019
6020 Q: I don’t know if you watch the news. There’s a reason I really don’t.
6021
6022 A1: Every week.
6023
6024 A: I don’t watch American news.
6025
6026 Q: But you know there’s something new every week that’s the hot topic. This one
6027 might be hot for a week, two, three, whatever. And then something else is
6028 gonna happen. And - and they’re gonna forget all about this one until it comes
6029 back to court. And then it’s gonna be revived. If it - if it ever does. I don’t
6030 know if that...

6031
6032 A1: So...
6033
6034 Q: You know, he has all sorts of - he could plea. He could say, “I wanna go to
6035 trial. I didn’t do this.” Whatever. He could say whatever. Um, so it could be
6036 tomorrow, it could be five years. It’s - it just depends. I mean, there’s a lot of
6037 things that can slow cases down. Um...
6038
6039 A1: Yeah, look at that theater thing. I mean, that was a whirlwind for, what, a
6040 month or so?
6041
6042 Q: Sure.
6043
6044 A1: And then all of a sudden it - as soon as people started figurin’ out what that
6045 guy was all about, all the sudden they started just, like - “Man, he’s weird. He
6046 was psycho. Look at him.” And - and he just kinda just...
6047
6048 Q: And then it petered off and then...
6049
6050 A1: But then he also shows up every...
6051
6052 Q: Y- a huge - that’s a huge, huge event.
6053
6054 A1: Yeah.
6055
6056 Q: Um, you know, certainly un- unprecedented.
6057
6058 A1: But it shows up every six months or year here.
6059
6060 Q: Sure.
6061
6062 A1: Um...
6063
6064 Q: You know, I mean, you look at - I - I just - there’s no way to - to know that.
6065
6066 A1: Okay.
6067
6068 Q: But if - like your dad’s saying, you know, like, on that, that guy was sent to
6069 the state hospital for evaluation and that takes a long, long time and that can
6070 draw out cases if there’s evaluations. There’s all sorts of things that come into
6071 play that really, don’t worry about. Um, i- put this thing out of your mind as
6072 much as you can and when the time comes, if it ever does, that you had to
6073 testify, you will be in good hands. We’ll take care of you, the att- the attorneys
6074 handling this case are gonna (unintelligible). ‘Kay?

6076 A1: Okay.
6077
6078 A: So, um, I don’t...
6079
6080 Q: And if you have questions that you (unintelligible), just call me.
6081
6082 A1: Yeah, I don’t - I don’t think we’re gonna talk to the other side, from what we
6083 were discussing.
6084
6085 A: I don’t...
6086
6087 A1: They can get the discoveries from you guys and it’s...
6088
6089 A: I don’t wanna deal with him anymore.
6090
6091 A1: ...it’s - it’s the last thing...
6092
6093 A: (Mark) already said - he’s like, “He might try to call you.” I think I’m gonna
6094 just ignore that.
6095
6096 Q: Who?
6097
6098 A: Chris. I don’t know if he will try to call me. I hear- did they find those little
6099 girls yet? I know they’ve been lookin’ for ‘em.
6100
6101 Q: We don’t - we don’t know.
6102
6103 A: And they thought - or they knew where they were at. You don’t know yet?
6104
6105 Q: I don’t.
6106
6107 A: ‘Cause you’ve been in here with me?
6108
6109 Q: Right.
6110
6111 A: Ah, my God.
6112
6113 A1: I find the whole thing very weird if they (close) - as much as you told me that
6114 he doesn’t - he was as normal as he was but yet some c- very close friend
6115 would call within a couple of hours of her not answerin’ the door or what was
6116 it, a - just...
6117
6118 A: Well I think she was, like, on meds or something. Like, so I think he - she
6119 wasn’t concerned about Chris.

6121 A1: But to call the - but to call the police within just, like, the same day and yet he
6122 acted normal on this end, that is just - that is weird.
6123
6124 A: Yeah.
6125
6126 A1: Somebody - there’s - the - two different lives there or something.
6127
6128 A: Oh there’s definitely two different lives there. That’s why sometimes I have
6129 to, like - I feel like - when he’s like, “Well what did she” - people are like,
6130 “What did he say about her?” And it’s just like, “I don’t even know if I wanna
6131 say it ‘cause who knows if that’s what’s really happening.”
6132
6133 Q: Mm-hm.
6134
6135 A: I mean, maybe. Maybe not.
6136
6137 A1: Uh, (Molly) called me back so we’ll call her from (unintelligible).
6138
6139 A: Okay. I think I might need to approach Anadarko. I really don’t wanna go to
6140 work tomorrow. I don’t think I’m going to. I think I’m gonna just take the
6141 week off and then we can sort things out on the weekend and then I can, like,
6142 reach out to my supervisor and EAP or whatever.
6143
6144 A1: Yeah, you need a little sleep and some time.
6145
6146 Q: Yeah, you definitely need some sleep. Don’t drive tonight.
6147
6148 A: (Unintelligible).
6149
6150 Q: (Unintelligible) get the - I’m gonna shut this off.
6151
6152 A1: She’s, uh - um...
6153
6154
6155 The transcript has been reviewed with the audio recording submitted and it is an accurate 
6156 transcription.
6157 Signed______ Agent Kevin Koback 090718
6158 ____________________________________________

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

 

Code - 2NDPH21AUG645PM

 

12 Q: Today is August 21, 2018. This is Agent Kevin Koback from the Colorado

13 Bureau of Investigation placing a phone call to Nichol Kessinger, also known

14 as (Nicky), at 720-656-9605. The current time is 6:45 pm.

15

16 A: Hello?

17

18 Q: Hi, (Nicky), it’s Kevin.

19

20 A: Hi, Kevin.

21

22 Q: How are you?

23

24 A: I’m okay.

25

26 Q: All right. Um, can you - I - I’m running a recorder so you know, um...

27

28 A: Okay.

29

30 Q: ...I - I just want you to introduce yourself again for the tape recorder, just say

31 your legal name for me, and then we’ll get started.

32

33 A: Okay. Okay. It’s Nichol (Lee) Kessinger.

34

35 Q: And your birthday, Nichol?

36

37 A: July 3rd, 1988.

38

39 Q: And you go by (Nicky), correct?

40

41 A: Yes, sir.

42

43 Q: Okay. All righty. So you text me this morning, we had a brief conversation

44 regarding some new information that you remembered, uh, from just

45 reflecting on what’s been going on with this case. So...

46
47 A: Yes.
48
49 Q: ...you wanna start with that? So you - did you write some things down?
50
51 A: I did...
52
53 Q: Okay.
54
55 A: ...so they’re kind of out-of-order. They kind of just, are, as they came to my
56 head.
57
58 Q: Sure.
59
60 A: Um, so we’ll go over them in the order that I wrote them down.
61
62 Q: That’s fine.
63
64 A: Um, so I was thinking about the whole, um, uh, what is the - the name of the -
65 the stuff she sold for Le-Vel? Um...
66
67 Q: Thrive.
68
69 A: ...the, uh - I’m sorry?
70
71 Q: Thrive?
72
73 A: Thrive, that’s right. I was, like, it starts with a T and I’m drawing a blank. So I
74 started thinking about this whole Thrive thing because I remember that we
75 spoke la- at the end of last week and you’re asking what I thought of it and I
76 made it clear that I just - I didn’t understand it, um, and the reason I had a hard
77 time understanding it was because I didn’t understand how people who were
78 living sedentary lifestyles and had poor diets were losing so much weight on
79 this - on this program, and Chris was never able to tell me what was in it, like,
80 he always - he not always, but when we first met, he was, like, “You should
81 try this stuff. You should try this stuff.” And I never - I never wanted to. I was
82 uncomfortable with it because I didn’t know what it was, um, and I even had
83 looked on their website and I still didn’t completely understand it and so I just
84 kind of - I stayed away from that. And not only that, I mean, he told me, you
85 know, the only things he pretty much told me is, “It gives you energy and it’s
86 like a weight loss supplement.” And I’m not trying to lose any weight, like, I
87 don’t need that and I didn’t feel like I needed the energy either. So he never
88 pushed it again and I never - I never, like, he always sore the Thrive patches
89 and I never questioned it. It was, like, what he did. Um, but one thing I do
90 remember him mentioning to me when he first tried to introduce me to Thrive,

91 was that you needed one patch a day, um, and when he would hang out with
92 me, he always wore two - always wore two.
93
94 Q: Okay.
95
96 A: And I don’t know if he’s just, like...
97
98 Q: Do you remember where he...
99
100 A: ...doubling up or...
101
102 Q: ...where he wore ‘em?
103
104 A: Yeah, so he would usually wear one on, like, his left tricep, bicep area, and
105 then sometimes he would wear another one on the right side in the same spot,
106 or he would wear it on his, like, lower back.
107
108 Q: Okay.
109
110 A: Um, but he always had two and I remember thinking, like, “I thought you only
111 needed one of these. Why are you using two?” And I never - I never
112 questioned it because for me, I mean, like, I never questioned him about it
113 because to me, I just felt like since I wasn’t involved with that program and I
114 didn’t wanna be involved, it wasn’t really my - my position to - to - to
115 question him.
116
117 Q: Sure.
118
119 A: Um, and now I know that there’s also supplements that go with it. There’s,
120 like, a pill and - and, like, a morning shake or - there’s, like, a lot of stuff that
121 goes with it, but there’s, like, a daily routing of, like, three or four items that
122 you are su- supposed to take. Now was he doubling up on those other items? I
123 am not sure. I do not know that.
124
125 Q: Was he fol- do you know if he was following the complete routine?
126
127 A: Um, as far as I know he was following it. And he had told me that that is why
128 he lost a bunch of weight. He said that the reason he’d lost so much weight
129 was all because of Thrive. And then he said at some point a few months ago,
130 he had started getting stagnant with the weight loss and so that is when he
131 decided that he was gonna start working out again and that’s when he decided
132 he wanted to start eating healthy as well because he was realizing that he’d,
133 like, plateaued and he - he still wanted to continue with his fitness, but I think
134 he was realizing, like, maybe a diet, like, a healthy diet and exercise is what I
135 need at this point. So that was the avenue that he was starting to go down and

136 he’d been going down by the time I met him, um, but he was still doing
137 Thrive on top of it.
138
139 Q: Okay.
140
141 A: So the thing that caught my - yeah, so the thing that caught my attention about
142 this recently when I was thinking about it is the fact that, um, I think maybe
143 the reason he was doing the two a day, and this is just speculation, is because
144 it had, like, plateaued so maybe he was doubling up because he thought it had
145 plateaued. So the reason that this comes to my attention is because of this
146 weight loss. So, um, he lost 13 pounds in about 5 weeks. In fact, I can give
147 you the dates. He lost 13 pounds from July 4th to August 11th is how much
148 weight he lost, because August 4 - I mean, July 4th was the day that I went to
149 his house and sat down with him and asked him, “How much do you weigh?” 
150 And he asked me, “Can you just, like, look at my macros and see how much
151 protein people my size would usually eat and all?” And just asked me to, like,
152 glance at it. So that’s why I went over was to...
153
154 Q: So that’s...
155
156 A: ...kind of, like, help him.
157
158 Q: ...when you say his house, that’s his house in Frederick that he, uh...
159
160 A: Yes.
161
162 Q: ...Shanann?
163
164 A: Yes. That’s the...
165
166 Q: Okay.
167
168 A: ...one that I told you guys I went to...
169
170 Q: Right.
171
172 A: ...on the 4th, and that was why I went there was to - to sit down with him that
173 morning of the 4th and just discuss his goals, you know, and again, I’m not a
174 fitness trainer so he already had a de- he- an idea in mind, he was just asking
175 me, like, “Can you just glance at this and tell me what you think since you pay
176 atten-”
177
178 Q: Right.
179
180 A: “...close attention to these things?” So anyways, um...

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

 

181

182 Q: So, wh-

183

184 A: ...uh...

185

186 Q: ...I’m gonna ask ya - I think I already asked ya and we discussed this one, but

187 July 4th was the first time you went to his house? And then I think...

188

189 A: Yes.

190

191 Q: ...you said, like, the following Monday or Sunday was the - the fin- the second

192 and final time you’d been to his home?

193

194 A: Um, I - well, I have to - it was a Saturday and I’ll have to look it up. It was

195 either the Sat- it was - hold on, let me pull out a calendar. I really just wanna,

196 like, uh, that’s July. So the 4th and then that weekend and the - I think - I

197 think, and I will double-check this, but I’m pretty sure - I know for a fact I

198 was at his house on July 4th...

199

200 Q: Mm-hm.

201

202 A: ...and I think the second time I went to his house was Saturday the 14th.

203

204 Q: Okay. And - and do you - those are - if I remember right, you only had been

205 there two times, right?

206

207 A: Yeah, like, I didn’t wanna go back. After that second time that I was there it’s

208 just, like, “I don’t wanna be at this house. Like if you wanna hangout, come to

209 my house.” So - so yeah. So the 14th was the last time I was there.

210

211 Q: Okay.

212

213 A: Uh...

214

215 Q: Great.

216

217 A: ...but back to this - so the - the Thrive thing, so I - I was - I was, like, kind of

218 concerned that he was losing so much weight, um, but I also wasn’t because

219 he was, like, kind of fine tuning his diet, but it was enough for me to look at it,

220 um, because I was, like, well, I mean, it’s - it wasn’t, like, a - a - a severe

221 weight loss, but it was - it was kind of fast. So, like, okay, “Well, are you

222 getting enough calories? What’s going on?” And I couldn’t figure it out ‘cause

223 I was looking at what he was eating and it was, like, healthy proteins and

224 vegetables and - and he was eating a decent amount of food and I’m just, like,

225 “How is this man losing so much weight?” And then I started thinking about it

226 the other day and I’m, like, “Oh, my God. It’s because he was, like, doubling
227 up on all the Thrive stuff and he was starting to eat really healthy.” So that, I
228 think, is where the weight loss comes from.
229
230 Q: So did you see change in him, personally, during that time from July 4th - or,
231 pardon me, July - July 4th to August 11th when he lost that kind of weight?
232
233 A: What did you say? What was the question you asked because I...
234
235 Q: Did - did you s- did you see a lot of change in him, like, um, not physical
236 change, but was his personality different or was it just the weight loss?
237
238 A: No, it was just the weight loss, like...
239
240 Q: Okay.
241
242 A: ...I didn’t think he was any different, but this is the one thing that I wanted to
243 point out to you guys was that - that he always this way, I just wanna state that
244 right now, like, this was not something that started at any certain point, but
245 from the first time that we started hanging out, he always had a ridiculous
246 amount of energy. And it wasn’t that he was, like, super high strung and
247 bouncing off the walls, it was that he could stay up. He, like, didn’t need to
248 sleep. And he was always that way, like, when we would hang out, he - oh,
249 my God, I would try to get him to go to bed at, like, 10:00 every night. I’m,
250 like, “If you’re gonna stay here, you need to go to be at, like, 10:00 because I
251 have to get up and go to work in the morning and so do you.” And he - he
252 would keep me up, like, every night and we - usually I would say, I mean, it
253 kind of fluctuated, but typically I would say that we went to bed somewhere -
254 when he stayed the night at my house on those nights, somewhere between
255 11:00 and midnight every night. And it used to bug me because it was, like, I
256 was so tired. I’m so - I wanna go to bed.
257
258 Q: What time did you wake? What time...
259
260 A: I’m sorry?
261
262 Q: ...what time did you usually wake up?
263
264 A: Um, it kind of depended on the day and what I had going on at work, but I
265 would say in between 4:30 and 5:00 is, like, a pretty accurate assumption of
266 when I’m supposed to get up for work.
267
268 Q: Okay. All right.
269
270 A: So, I mean, and then so what I would do is I would go to work all day and

271 then when I would get off work, I would sleep. I would go home and nap and
272 I would - and my naps varied in time. Sometimes it was a half an hour,
273 sometimes it was, like, an hour and a half. It was, like, whatever my body
274 needed and then I would get up and I would go to the gym. And then after I
275 got back from the gym, he would come over to my house and it would be the
276 same thing where it was, like, he would keep me up. And I will tell you
277 without those naps, there’s no way I would’ve been able to keep up with him.
278 No way.
279
280 Q: Okay.
281
282 A: And - and an- and another thing about that too, and he was always like that,
283 always, and - and it used to - he - I could tell, like, his body wanted to sleep,
284 but, like, his mind couldn’t sleep. And the reason that I say that is because he -
285 I - he - sometimes I would see him, like, he would keep me up so I’d be, like,
286 “All right, well, like, let’s watch a movie, you know, uh, if you wanna
287 hangout.” And so we’d be up and I’d see him, like, doze off, and then, like,
288 wake right back up and, like, doze off and wake right back up.
289
290 Q: Okay.
291
292 A: And there was a few times - there was a few times that we were having a
293 conversation and he would be talking to me, Kevin, he would, like, fall asleep
294 mid-sentence and wake up...
295
296 Q: Okay.
297
298 A: ...like, snap - yeah, and he would, like, snap out of it, like, five or ten seconds
299 later and keep talking right where he left off.
300
301 Q: That’s weird.
302
303 A: Yeah. It always, like, blew my mind. I was, like, “This guy must really like
304 me if he’s, like, avoiding sleep to be with me.” And it was, like, I just - I
305 couldn’t do it, like, I napped probably almost every, single day...
306
307 Q: Right.
308
309 A: ...after I hung out with him.
310
311 Q: Right. Okay. I get - so I get...
312
313 A: So it was just - honestly, it was all...
314
315 Q: ...so

316
317 A: ...it was like he was on speed.
318
319 Q: ...so you think the Thrive thing contributed to that or at least his own drive for
320 losing weight and getting in shape and maybe his, um, attraction to you, um,
321 drove him? Because you’re pretty physically fit and he was kind of motivated
322 by that? I think I remember you saying that earlier, um, but you were trying to
323 help him get in better shape.
324
325 A: Well, and, I mean, he was already in good, physical shape and he was already
326 taking care of his health and his diet and the gym. I just think he was, like,
327 “Hey, since you’re already in the, uh, live a healthy lifestyle, uh, would you
328 be willing to just give me some input?”
329
330 Q: Okay.
331
332 A: Maybe I can fine-tune it.
333
334 Q: But do...
335
336 A: You know, I never (unintelligible)...
337
338 Q: ...you think that was some of the motivation for him to...
339
340 A: Uh...
341
342 Q: ...stay awake long hours and, um, you know, maybe use multiple patches of
343 Thrive to try to impress you, for lack of better terms?
344
345 A: No, I think it was the Thrive and I think his body wanted to sleep. I think it
346 really wanted to sleep. I think he legitimately was trying to lose weight and I
347 think that’s what was keeping him up...
348
349 Q: Okay. Cool.
350
351 A: ...because at the end of the day, like, I wanted to sleep, but he just was, like,
352 really restless and didn’t seem like he wanted to, but he always seemed, like,
353 really respectful of my wishes, so you would think that he would be onboard
354 with that, but it was almost, like, he, like, couldn’t calm his brain, you know,
355 and...
356
357 Q: Mm-hm.
358
359 A: ...like I said, he wasn’t acting high energy, he just, like, wouldn’t sleep and I
360 almost think that’s what it was. It was almost restless where it’s, like, “Hey, I

361 can’t turn off at the end of the night. Stay up with me.” And he never said that,
362 but that was kind of the impression that I got.
363
364 Q: Okay.
365
366 A: And so...
367
368 Q: All right.
369
370 A: ...and again, the double Thrive patches, I mean, maybe, but I don’t really think
371 he was trying to impress me. I mean, he told me, like, “I plateaued on this
372 stuff.” So I think maybe he was, like, “Whoa, what if I double dip?”
373
374 Q: Mm-hm.
375
376 A: So...
377
378 Q: Right, so he’s trying to get over...
379
380 A: ...I’m not sure...
381
382 Q: I get it. Okay.
383
384 A: Yeah. So I don’t - I don’t think that was a - a me motivated thing for him. I
385 think that was - he - ‘cause he was already working on the Thrive thing and,
386 like I said, and his fitness. He was doing all that prior to me being in his life.
387
388 Q: Okay.
389
390 A: So, and - and so - and I don’t know if he was double patching before I met
391 him. He double patched the whole time I knew him, so I don’t know if, like,
392 that occurred once I came into his life, or if he had already started doing that
393 once he plateaued.
394
395 Q: Right.
396
397 A: I never asked.
398
399 Q: Okay. All right.
400
401 A: I just found that really interesting, so...
402
403 Q: Yeah.
404
405 A: ...I just wanted to bring that up.

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

2NDPH21AUG645PM

406
407 Q: Yeah, and I appreciate it and your - that’s the kind of things that...
408
409 A: Yeah.
410
411 Q: ...I want, uh, when we talked prior, uh, just to - re- get you to recall things that
412 didn’t seem out of place then that - but when you reflect back, may have
413 seemed out of place now with what you know. So, what’s the next...
414
415 A: I agr- I mean, it was scary to me, like, it was scary that he lost that much
416 weight on that stuff, but I guess a lot of people do and I keep thinking about it.
417
418 Q: Yeah, I mean...
419
420 A: I’m, like, it almost seems like it’s a drug.
421
422 Q: ...if you look at any diet though, I mean, I - I’m not a fitness guy, if you read
423 about Atkins or any of these other diets, people lose excessive amounts of
424 weight in short periods of time, so, um...
425
426 A: Yeah.
427
428 Q: ...yeah, but, whatever. I - I think it’s interesting that, uh, this Thrive played a
429 part in it, um, and quite frankly, I - I am gonna get one of these patches, uh, to
430 try to figure out what it is. Um, so we’ll - we’ll - we’ll figure that out, um, at
431 some point. So...
432
433 A: Okay.
434
435 Q: ...what’s next on your list?
436
437 A: Um, let’s see, let’s see, let’s see. Um, oh, okay. So this is Saturday. This is
438 when I made...
439
440 Q: So Saturday...
441
442 A: ...a reference to...
443
444 Q: ...would’ve been...
445
446 A: This is Saturday the 11th of August.
447
448 Q: Okay.
449
450 A: Was that the 11th?

51
452 Q: Okay.
453
454 A: This is the night that we attempted to go to the Lazy Dog on 120th and
455 Federal and we walked in and I looked at their menu a bit, like, trying to seat
456 us, and I looked at their menu and I was, like, “I’m not eating here.”
457
458 Q: Right.
459
460 A: Um, and because - yeah, so we went to the other Lazy Dog, which is actually
461 owned by somebody else, so they have a different menu, so we went to the
462 Lazy Dog off of - I think it’s 144th that I told you guys, and we sat down and
463 we ate. And we were attempting to watch the...
464
465 Q: It’s on Highway 7, right?
466
467 A: What’s that?
468
469 Q: Is it on Highway 7?
470
471 A: I don’t think so. It’s on I-25 and, like, 144th.
472
473 Q: Okay.
474
475 A: I mean, I can look it up and I can...
476
477 Q: No, that’s okay...
478
479 A: ...screenshot it and send it to you.
480
481 Q: I think, uh, there’s...
482
483 A: Um...
484
485 Q: ...two of ‘em and I think there was some confusion. One of our guys went, and
486 I just wanna make sure he went to the right one, um, I don’t - I don’t - I don’t
487 know the Lazy Dog, but I’ll ask him tomorrow. 144th is right by...
488
489 A: The...
490
491 Q: ...Highway 7.
492
493 A: Okay. Well, I - I don’t know that. I don’t know.
494
495 Q: Yeah.

496
497 A: I’d just - I had never been to that one, so, um, I think it’s 144th. It might be
498 135th. I will it up tonight and...
499
500 Q: Okay.
501
502 A: ...then will just screenshot you the address and I will send it so that you guys -
503 if you guys need to pull those videos you can find it.
504
505 Q: Okay.
506
507 A: Um, but one thing that I noticed about this is that, um, so normally when we
508 went out, um, I try to keep things pretty cheap, just to be, like, respectful, like,
509 I never went to, like, expensive places or anything and sometimes I would pay
510 for things, sometimes he would, but when he paid, he would always use these,
511 like, Anadarko gift cards, um, like, these little, gray gift cards, and they were
512 always, like, $25 or $50 and they always came in, like, like, denominational
513 increments that made sense. And he told me that he got these from Anadarko
514 as rewards for, like, doing really good stuff at work. And is that true? I don’t
515 know. I don’t know if, I mean, I know that him and his wife have a lot of
516 financial issues so I don’t know if maybe he’s the one who actually wanted to
517 spend all the money and maybe he was cashing his paycheck in the, uh, gift
518 cards so that his wife couldn’t track it. I don’t know. I don’t know...
519
520 Q: Okay.
521
522 A: ...but I think it’s something you guys will need to confirm with Anadarko.
523
524 Q: So were they actually in the name of Anadarko? Do - do you remember - or
525 did he just tell you that they were gift cards?
526
527 A: They - they would say - no, no, no, no, I’ve seen ‘em.
528
529 Q: Okay.
530
531 A: They say Anadarko on ‘em. They’re, like, little sil- dark silver, like, credit
532 cards, but they’re, like, gift cards.
533
534 Q: So, you’re - you’re...
535
536 A: Um...
537
538 Q: ...just suspicious that potentially he was hiding money from his wife with
539 these gift cards?

541 A: Honestly, no, I think Anadarko legitimately gave him these, but oil industry is
542 pretty good about - when our operators do things that are safe, um, or they do
543 a really good job at something, um, they - they, uh, they usually provide, like,
544 gift cards or some sort of incentive for - it’s just a safe (unintelligible)...
545
546 Q: So they bonus these guys out if they’re doing a good job or being extra, like,
547 they have no safety violations and stuff?
548
549 A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, stuff like that, so it’s, like, they’re, like, safety rewards, so...
550
551 Q: Okay.
552
553 A: ...um, yeah, so - so do I think they were legitimate? Honestly, yes. I - I - I do.
554 That’s something you need to confirm with Anadarko though, because I
555 wasn’t one of their employees so I don’t know.
556
557 Q: Okay.
558
559 A: Um, but I did think to myself, like, if they do have money issues, maybe he
560 was possibly concealing it, but the thing - it’s not even the gift cards, I think,
561 that are, like, the main focus on this right now. For me, the main focus, uh, I
562 wanted to bring your guys’ attention is he always paid with those. Always.
563 And then...
564
565 Q: Every time you guys...
566
567 A: ...on the night...
568
569 Q: ...so you - you - we talked about this, um, prior and let’s just revisit it, um, you
570 guys never really went out on a date per se, with the exception of this
571 Saturday night on the 11th? Usually you guys...
572
573 A: No, we went...
574
575 Q: ...spent time at your home, um, versus going out? Un- unless I’m mistaken on
576 what you’re saying.
577
578 A: You are. I...
579
580 Q: Okay.
581
582 A: ...so we on most nights would hang out at my house, but we went out a few
583 times and I have dates for everything and...
584
585 Q: Okay.

586
587 A: ...I can give you that, once...
588
589 Q: Yeah.
590
591 A: ...I’m done with this. Um, so, um, the reason that this caught my attention was
592 not because of the gift cards, it was the lack of the gift card. So when we went
593 out to dinner, he went to pay the check and I noticed that instead of using one
594 of the Anadarko gift cards, he had a baby blue credit card in his hand that he
595 used to pay.
596
597 Q: Okay.
598
599 A: And I just remember thinking to myself, like, why isn’t he using any of those
600 gift cards? I’m pretty sure he still has a balance on one of those, but I couldn’t
601 remember. And then I was just, like, I was, like, maybe - ‘cause, you know, at
602 this point - at this point he had made it clear to me that they were, like, filing
603 for divorce, like, it was, like, done. So I was, like, “Well, maybe he just
604 doesn’t really care anymore, you know.” And - but then another part of me
605 was, like, “But technically, they’re still together so why would he do that?” 
606 And, like, I just - I didn’t ask because, like, at - he had made it sound like by
607 that Saturday that they were so far removed from each other that I was, like,
608 “It’s plausible that now he’s just not, like, has nothing to cover up, you
609 know.” But then at the same time, I still feel like, until your divorce is 100%
610 completely final and you’re out of that house, why would you do that?
611
612 Q: Sure.
613
614 A: I mean, so, again, I didn’t ask him, like...
615
616 Q: So you just found it was a little bit suspicious, um, that he used a credit card
617 versus the, um, the gift card?
618
619 A: It was, like, he had nothing to hide...
620
621 Q: Right.
622
623 A: ...or nothing to lose. He...
624
625 Q: He...
626
627 A: ...was just, like, “Yeah, I’m gonna pay with this...”
628
629 Q: Right.

631 A: “...and I don’t care.”
632
633 Q: Okay. So - and that would certainly be, uh, if it was a credit card, um, just
634 thinking, uh, would be something that maybe his wife would see at some point
635 and he would have to then...
636
637 A: Yes.
638
639 Q: ...try to have to explain that. So in your mind, he’s, like, “Oh, well, we’re
640 divorced or I don’t care anymore. Um, she’s gonna find out that I have a - a -
641 a girlfriend.”
642
643 A: I don’t really know what he was thinking. I mean, I can’t think for that man, I
644 mean, I don’t even - I can’t even process half the shit he’s done or the lies he’s
645 pulled at this point so I don’t know. I just think that that was extremely
646 peculiar because he had never done that before...
647
648 Q: Okay.
649
650 A: ...and it didn’t seem like a big deal to him.
651
652 Q: All right. I - I get where - where you’re going. Um, so it kind of made you
653 think that he didn’t have anything to hide anymore?
654
655 A: No, not at all. And again, you know, I mean, there was other parts of our
656 relationship where it’s, like, he talked to me on the phone pretty freely, like,
657 all the time, you know, so for me, like, he never really seemed - it never really
658 seemed, like, on the phone, like, he had to hide anything at all. And that’s
659 why, you know, when he’s telling me, “Yeah, we’re getting separated. Yeah,
660 I’m sleeping in the basement.” Like, it didn’t even, like, occur to me, like,
661 maybe this isn’t happening because it was, like, he was so liberal about his
662 communication with me, even if they were in the same house together at the
663 same time. And so for me, I was, like, “All right. Well, maybe she’s upstairs,
664 he’s downstairs, they’re separated. It doesn’t really matter if he makes a phone
665 call.” And so that he was always liberal with, but when it came to, like, paying
666 for things, it was always the Anadarko gift cards. And again...
667
668 Q: Mm-hm.
669
670 A: ...like, I don’t know if that’s ‘cause he was hiding it from her or if that was
671 because he happened to have these gift cards and why not spend those as
672 opposed to, like, the money in your bank account. I mean, I don’t know. I just
673 noticed that that one last time that we hung out, that he paid with a credit card
674 and I was confused because I was pretty sure that he still had a balance
675 remaining on, like, one of those Anadarko cards, but I - I...

676
677 Q: Okay.
678
679 A: ...I don’t know.
680
681 Q: Got it.
682
683 A: I don’t know.
684
685 Q: All right. What’s next?
686
687 A: So - all right. And then, uh, let me just give you dates real quick...
688
689 Q: Sure.
690
691 A: ...um, for the thing when we were out in public. So I think I have these rights,
692 I hope I have these right, um, but on Sunday - I think it was Sunday - I think it
693 was Sunday the 5th. I think.
694
695 Q: July 5th?
696
697 A: Um, yeah, that’s what I meant. I’m sorry. I’m glad that you’re paying
698 attention to this ‘cause - yeah. So July - I think July - I’m gonna start at the
699 beginning.
700
701 Q: Okay.
702
703 A: So I went out of town for my birthday. I came home on July 3rd, which is the
704 night of my birthday. On the 4th of July, I went over to his house in the
705 morning and then - and helped him with his, like, meal plan thing, and then
706 after that I went to the 4th of July Rockies game with one of my friends. And
707 then on the 5th? I think it was the 5th, I don’t remember, um, we went to go
708 see a movie, um, and we went to the movie theatre that is up by that Lazy 
709 Dog, I think, on 144th and I-25. Um...
710
711 Q: What movie...
712
713 A: ...he wanted to go...
714
715 Q: ...did you see?
716
717 A: That new Jurassic Park movie. I don’t know what it’s called.
718
719 Q: Okay.

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

 

 

2NDPH21AUG645PM

721 A: And I remember, um, we got there and the first showing was sold out I think?
722 I don’t remember. I think either we were gonna go see another movie and it
723 was sold out, or that one was sold out. So - but when we went up there to start
724 with, it was sold out and so we - we left and we, um, we went and, like,
725 walked down to these benches that were, like, right across from the Victoria’s
726 Secret. Um, and I don’t know what corner of the building that would be on,
727 um, if you guys need me to go to there and try to figure out, I can do that.
728
729 Q: No, we- I’ll figure it out. That’s okay.
730
731 A: Um, yeah, and we, like, sat in these benches - on this bench under this tree
732 and, like, just bullshitted until the next showing of the movie. Um, and they
733 we went to the second showing of the movie. And it was really late. I wanna
734 say...
735
736 Q: Do you - uh...
737
738 A: ...it was, like, 9:00 something.
739
740 Q: PM?
741
742 A: Yeah, it was late.
743
744 Q: On - on the 5th?
745
746 A: And I wanna say - I don’t - I - I just - I just don’t even wanna say it’s Sunday
747 ‘cause I feel like it was, like, not Sunday. I don’t think it was my birthday
748 though. I don’t know.
749
750 Q: Okay.
751
752 A: I don’t know. I might have all my dates mixed up. If I have all my dates
753 mixed up, just...
754
755 Q: That’s okay.
756
757 A: ...(unintelligible) camera or something, just...
758
759 Q: That you get - you’re getting us close.
760
761 A: ...you - you’ll find it. Okay. So then, um, let me go back to, um, no. I was
762 looking at August, that’s why the date - the date sounded weird. It was - it
763 was, like, it was either the 6th of July or the 7th of July.
764
765 Q: Okay.

766
767 A: I was looking at the wrong month on the calendar.
768
769 Q: So Sunday the 6th - pardon me...
770
771 A: No, it’s - it’s either - I think - ‘cause on this one I’m saying I didn’t think it
772 was a Sunday, so it is either Friday the 6th...
773
774 Q: Okay.
775
776 A: ...or Saturday the 7th...
777
778 Q: Uh, the...
779
780 A: ...of July. I’m sorry. I was...
781
782 Q: That’s okay.
783
784 A: ...looking at the wrong calendar. Um, so one of tho- well, ‘cause I remember
785 that was, like, our first, like, outing. That was, like, our first date and it was
786 the weekend right after my birthday week, so...
787
788 Q: Okay.
789
790 A: ...um, so it had to have been, yeah, either probably the 6th or the 7th. And
791 then...
792
793 Q: Okay.
794
795 A: ...we didn’t go anywhere again until the next weekend. And that weekend, on
796 Saturday the 14th, that’s the day that I went to his house. Um, we went up to
797 Boulder and we went to the Shelby Mustang Museum, so this was July 14th.
798
799 Q: Okay.
800
801 A: Yeah. So we went up there, took a tour and then, um, after that we left and,
802 um, we went to his hou-
803
804 Q: Do you remember time that would’ve been?
805
806 A: That we left?
807
808 Q: Mm-hm.
809
810 A: I don’t know. It was probably...

811
812 Q: Well, what time do you think you got to the museum?
813
814 A: Uh, God. I don’t even remember, um...
815
816 Q: Morning? Afternoon? Night?
817
818 A: I think it was pretty, like, a decent time in the morning. I bet you we got there
819 at, like, 11:00 or so, ‘cause I remember it took us probably, like, an hour, an
820 hour and a half to walk through it I think. It was - it’s a small museum. And
821 then after that we were gonna go to lunch in Boulder and then we decided not
822 to. And then, um, we just went to - we went to his house and I dropped him
823 off ‘cause I had picked him up to go to the museum, so I dropped him off...
824
825 Q: So you’re dri-
826
827 A: ...at - what?
828
829 Q: ...you’re driving your 4Runner?
830
831 A: Yeah. We - we drove my 4Runner all the time. I told you I was only in his
832 vehicle one time and I think...
833
834 Q: Right.
835
836 A: ...it was, like, so he could go get gas or something, like, everything - all of
837 these adventures were all done in my truck.
838
839 Q: Okay.
840
841 A: U- um, so then, uh, we went to his house and, um, we were over there for a
842 little while, but then I was just, like, “I don’t really wanna be here.” So I left
843 and I left him there. He didn’t go with me.
844
845 Q: At his home?
846
847 A: Uh, yeah, like, I left him there.
848
849 Q: Okay.
850
851 A: Um, and I left by myself. And then on the weekend of the 21st? And this is
852 how you’ll know if my dates are lined up. I would base it off of this date and
853 work your way backwards, but, like, um, this weekend I went to Bandimere 
854 Speedway with him. As I we- and saw - think it was called the Mopar Mile-
855 High Nationals

856
857 Q: Mm-hm.
858
859 A: It might’ve been called (Thunder on the Mountain). I don’t know. It was the
860 drag races though and it was on - yeah, Saturday the 21st.
861
862 Q: Okay.
863
864 A: And were there, like, the majority of the day. I think - I think we got there,
865 like, early afternoon and we were there till it ended pretty much.
866
867 Q: Was that, uh, late in the evening?
868
869 A: Yeah. Those things go pretty like, like, it gets dark.
870
871 Q: Okay. So you guys - so you...
872
873 A: So (unintelligible)...
874
875 Q: ...dro- did you pick him up again and then drive your truck or - or your
876 4Runner, right? It’s a 4Runner? Drive your 4Runner?
877
878 A: I didn’t pick him up. No, I didn’t - I didn’t pick him up again because I never
879 went back to his house, like, he came to my house and then we carpooled.
880
881 Q: Okay. So he drove to your house, you guys...
882
883 A: So...
884
885 Q: ...carpooled down to the Mile-High Nationals and you stayed a majority of the
886 day? Is there anybody...
887
888 A: Yes.
889
890 Q: ...with you guys on any of these dates, or is it just you two?
891
892 A: It’s just us.
893
894 Q: Okay. Did you, um...
895
896 A: Um...
897
898 Q: ...have meals anywhere after you left there? Did you stop at any bars or
899 anything?

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India