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Preety_India

Narcissistic Abusive Personalities

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901 A: God, um, okay, so that day, I’m glad you brought that up, um, prior to going
902 to, uh, Bandimere, we went to, um, what is the name of that little town - it’s
903 not Evergreen, it’s, like, in between Lakewo- Morrison.
904
905 Q: Morrison? Okay.
906
907 A: We went to Morrison. And there’s a patio bar there, um, I do not know what it
908 is called. It’s on top of an Italian pizza place. I think it’s literally called, like,
909 the Morrison Grill or Morrison Patio Bar, like, something real simple. Um,
910 and we went - it - it’s just like a rooftop bar, um...
911
912 Q: And you went before the...
913
914 A: ...and it’s above...
915
916 Q: ...drag races?
917
918 A: Yeah, we went before the drag races...
919
920 Q: Okay.
921
922 A: ...and we hung out - yeah, and we hung out there probably for a while. I think
923 we were there for a little while and we ate there, so that’s where we got food. I
924 totally...
925
926 Q: So you - you ate lunch there?
927
928 A: ...spaced it out until just now. Yeah, we did.
929
930 Q: Okay.
931
932 A: Tacos.
933
934 Q: Okay.
935
936 A: Um, this is a really bar by the way. Um, yeah, so we - we - we ate - we, um,
937 we did that and then we went to Bandimere and then I don’t know what we
938 did after Bandimere. I think we just went to (unintelligible). I’m almost
939 positive, like, I don’t think we did anything after that ‘cause it was pretty late.
940 And then on weekend of July 28th through the 29th, um, we went to the sand
941 dunes - we went to the Great Sand Dunes National Park.
942
943 Q: Down in, uh, Alamosa?
944
945 A: Yes.

946
947 Q: July 28th, 29th. Did you guys stay anywhere?
948
949 A: It was the 28th. What did you say? I’m sorry.
950
951 Q: Where did you - where did you stay?
952
953 A: Oh, we camped.
954
955 Q: Okay.
956
957 A: We camped. I don’t remember the name of the campsite, but if you, like, just
958 let me go through probably, like, my old phone navo or, like, go through just
959 the internet and try to look up campsites, I can probably come up with a name
960 for you.
961
962 Q: Let me - let me ask you this. There was, um, some attachments that, uh, when
963 I was looking at some of your phone stuff today, although very limited,
964 there’s a - a man with a backpack, um, he’s got a beard. He - he does not look
965 like Chris to me - in - in your photos. Do you know who I’m talking about?
966
967 A: Yeah. Is he, like, the little, heavier set?
968
969 Q: Yeah, I’d say he’s a little bit bigger.
970
971 A: Yes. That is my friend (Jim). That is the one that I was with on the Monday
972 and Tuesday of last week.
973
974 Q: Okay. So there is some photographs - you mentioned the museum - the car
975 museum. I think I remember seeing a couple photos of - of cars and it didn’t
976 strike me as anything then. Um, so there may be a little bit more on your
977 phone than what I think, uh, but there is definitely no photos of Chris, and I
978 don’t remember seeing, um, any pictures of the sand dunes, but - so did you
979 camp inside the National Park there?
980
981 A: No. It was outside. I think we camped at Zapata Falls. I think that’s the name
982 of the campsite.
983
984 Q: Yep, Zapata Falls?
985
986 A: I think it was the Zapata Falls.
987
988 Q: Mm-hm.
989
990 A: Yeah, it’s Zapata. We...

991
992 Q: It’s before you come to the - you - you turn off 160 and you’re going towards
993 the sand dunes and then you turn off and kind of go up a 4-wheel drive road to
994 Zapata Falls?
995
996 A: Uh, yeah, that, like, really gnarly - one with all the switchbacks...
997
998 Q: Yep.
999
1000 A: ...and the rocks?
1001
1002 Q: Mm-hm.
1003
1004 A: Yeah...
1005
1006 Q: Okay.
1007
1008 A: ...there. And so we - we camped there. Um...
1009
1010 Q: Was it, like, an established campground, or was it just dry camping?
1011
1012 A: No, it was an established campground. There’s a campground up there, like,
1013 you hang that left to go to Zapata Falls Trail, and then you go right and
1014 there’s, like, a big campground loop.
1015
1016 Q: Okay. So that’s where you guys were there.
1017
1018 A: Yes.
1019
1020 Q: All right. Keep going.
1021
1022 A: And then, um, we went to the sand dunes - not the first day, so we got there,
1023 uh, fairly late on - how did I do - how did we get - no, no, no, no, no, that’s
1024 right. So I just - I need to think about this (unintelligible) this was Saturday we
1025 got there, we set up camp and then after we set up camp, we went to the
1026 National Park.
1027
1028 Q: So ac- you went and hiked the - whatever, the - the sand dunes?
1029
1030 A: Yeah. Yeah, we tried and I just remember it was super windy. Oh, my God,
1031 the sand hurt so bad. I was - it was - it started raining, um, and we stayed. We
1032 stayed even though the weather was bad ‘cause there was, like, nobody else
1033 there. Um, and so we did that for most of the afternoon. And then, um, we
1034 came back to the campsite and I showed him how to light a fire ‘cause he’d
1035 never done it before. Um...

1036
1037 Q: He’d never lit a fire?
1038
1039 A: ...he lit - no, he’s never been camping before. He told me he’d never been
1040 camping before and I was...
1041
1042 Q: Oh.
1043
1044 A: ...like, “Well, if you wanna go, I’m trying to go to sand dunes.” So that’s why
1045 we went ‘cause he said he’d never done it.
1046
1047 Q: Okay.
1048
1049 A: Um, so we...
1050
1051 Q: Did you guys visit any, um, there’s not really very much stuff around there,
1052 uh, there’s no restaurants or anything in that area...
1053
1054 A: No...
1055
1056 Q: ...so...
1057
1058 A: ...no, we did stop at the - I think it’s called, like, The Oasis or something. Um,
1059 it’s, like, this little - it’s, like, on the way to the Dunes. It’s not in the Park, but
1060 it’s, like, on that road that you take to get to the Dunes and it’s, like, it’s
1061 almost, like, a little gas station. And we stopped there and we rented a sand 
1062 board, um, to go sandboarding on and, um, we got - I think we got more ice
1063 for cooler, I think, and we got firewood for...
1064
1065 Q: So it’s, like, a gas station?
1066
1067 A: Kind of, but it’s, like, the one-stop shop that everybody goes to ‘cause there’s,
1068 like, nothing else around there.
1069
1070 Q: Right.
1071
1072 A: Like, you wouldn’t - I’m almost sure - I’m almost positive it’s called The
1073 Oasis and they actually have their own campground back there too.
1074
1075 Q: Okay.
1076
1077 A: It’s, like...
1078
1079 Q: I know where you...

1081 A: ...on that road.
1082
1083 Q: Mm-hm. It’s right before you get to the...
1084
1085 A: Yeah.
1086
1087 Q: ...entrance to the - the Park?
1088
1089 A: Yep. Yep, yep, yep.
1090
1091 Q: Okay.
1092
1093 A: On the right-hand side when you’re driving in. Um, I’m glad that you know
1094 what I’m talking about...
1095
1096 Q: Well, I worked, uh...
1097
1098 A: ...because, um...
1099
1100 Q: ...I worked in Southern Colorado for the last five years and I spent a lot of
1101 time around Alamosa and - and The San Luis Valley, so...
1102
1103 A: Oh...
1104
1105 Q: ...I know...
1106
1107 A: ...gotcha.
1108
1109 Q: ...I know a lot of - about that area, unfortunately. Um, so I...
1110
1111 A: Oh, well, that’s - that’s good. That helps me.
1112
1113 Q: ...know where you’re talking about. So you - you got ice...
1114
1115 A: So...
1116
1117 Q: ...um, and, uh, firewood...
1118
1119 A: Yeah. And I got - I’m not sure if we got ice. I think we did just ‘cause I like to
1120 re-up ice every time I go camping.
1121
1122 Q: Who - who paid for it?
1123
1124 A: He did.

1126 Q: Okay. Do you think he used the debit - or the, um, gift card again?
1127
1128 A: Probably. ‘Cause that was the plan in the first place. He was just, like, “Well,
1129 hey, I’ve got these gift cards if you wanna use ‘em. You don’t even have to
1130 spend any money and we can just use these.” And I was, like, “Well, that’s
1131 great.” So I remember for the trip I filled up my gas tank and I paid for gas
1132 and I bought a little bit of groceries, uh, for the cooler. And then, um, he took
1133 care of, like, the campsite and the board and the firewood and all of that.
1134
1135 Q: Okay.
1136
1137 A: Like, I didn’t actually go into that Oasis place I don’t think. I’m almost
1138 positive I didn’t go in there, he did. I - I got in line for the board, I remember
1139 that. But their - their, like, little board rental shop is, like, outside of the
1140 building.
1141
1142 Q: Okay.
1143
1144 A: Or he went inside ‘cause he went and got firewood. Um, and then we went -
1145 went to the Dunes...
1146
1147 Q: And I’m just...
1148
1149 A: ...and we hung out...
1150
1151 Q: ...looking at your dates so you know you’re right. The Bandimere Speedway,
1152 the Mile-High Nationals was July 21.
1153
1154 A: Yeah...
1155
1156 Q: So...
1157
1158 A: ...uh, that’s what I was gonna say. Get online and see if that matches.
1159
1160 Q: Yep, it does, so...
1161
1162 A: Okay. So the - so then all...
1163
1164 Q: ...we’re good.
1165
1166 A: ...those other dates - all those other dates should be good. The only one that
1167 I’m not 100% sure about is the movie. It was that weekend, that movie...
1168
1169 Q: Okay.

1171 A: ...on the 6th and the 7th. It was that weekend, I just remember what day...
1172
1173 Q: Okay.
1174
1175 A: ...of the weekend. I think - I don’t think it was a Sunday though. I really think
1176 it was a Friday or a Saturday, like, I’m almost positive I didn’t have to work
1177 anyway.
1178
1179 Q: All right. So what’s after, uh...
1180
1181 A: Um...
1182
1183 Q: ...the Great Sand Dunes?
1184
1185 A: Okay, so we went to the - the dunes and then, um, we went and returned the
1186 board and then we went back to the campsite and we lit fire and we ate and we
1187 just hung out by the fire for a few hours and just visited and then it started
1188 raining really hard. So we put everything in the tent and put out the fire and
1189 we went in the tent and I remember he was, like, wide awake and I was so
1190 tired, like, oh my, God. I wanted to sleep so bad and he just, like, would not
1191 sleep and it was kind of bugging me, like, I would - I think I would - I would,
1192 like, almost, like, wake up and, like, half subconsciously, like, have a
1193 conversation with him for a sec and then, like, doze back off. And I just
1194 remember being so tired and he was up - probably for a while.
1195
1196 Q: Okay. And...
1197
1198 A: And then...
1199
1200 Q: ...so you guys...
1201
1202 A: Go ahead.
1203
1204 Q: ...come back to the Denver metro area on Sunday?
1205
1206 A: Kind of. Yeah, but we - so we went, um, one of my friends wanted us to go to
1207 the Renaissance Festival and she didn’t know who I was with, but she was
1208 with, like, uh, the Renaissance Festival in Colorado Springs, and she’s, like,
1209 “Oh, you should stop by.” And I made up and excuse to not go over there. I
1210 just her, I was, like, “Yeah, I don’t really know, you know.” And I, like, kind
1211 of got out of it because I didn’t want her to meet him.
1212
1213 Q: I got it.
1214
1215 A: Um...

 


INFJ-T,ptsd,BPD, autism, anger issues

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1216
1217 Q: What friend was that?
1218
1219 A: (Charlotte).
1220
1221 Q: Okay. So did (Charlotte) ever meet Chris?
1222
1223 A: No, none of my friends ever met him.
1224
1225 Q: Okay.
1226
1227 A: And then, um, uh, on the way back up, we stopped in Colorado Springs to eat,
1228 and we stopped at a restaurant called BJ’s.
1229
1230 Q: On Nevada and I-25?
1231
1232 A: Uh, honestly, I don’t know. I mean, I just remember...
1233
1234 Q: Right by the col-
1235
1236 A: ...what it’s called, like...
1237
1238 Q: ...University of Colorado? There’s a bunch of buildings, uh, and it’s a big,
1239 strip center.
1240
1241 A: Uh...
1242
1243 Q: There’s, like, a Costco...
1244
1245 A: Oh, wait, I think I remember the Costco. I think I remember Costco ‘cause
1246 don’t kind of have, like - like from the highway you can, like, see it...
1247
1248 Q: Yep.
1249
1250 A: ...from the highway, but that main road, you can, like, see the Costco and then
1251 you have to kind of, like, turn in and around into...
1252
1253 Q: Yep.
1254
1255 A: ...shopping center?
1256
1257 Q: Mm-hm.
1258
1259 A: Yeah, that’s the one.

1261 Q: Okay. BJ’s, it’s more like a, um, Brewhouse I guess kind of?
1262
1263 A: Yes. Yes. And it’s, like, really nice - that place. It’s just, like, it’s, like, a nice
1264 restaurant. I mean, not, like, nice, but it’s just, like, it’s - it - yeah, it’s...
1265
1266 Q: Okay.
1267
1268 A: ...it’s a decent place, so we...
1269
1270 Q: So that would’ve been...
1271
1272 A: ...the - it’s a big place. That’s what I was looking for.
1273
1274 Q: Yep.
1275
1276 A: It’s a big restaurant.
1277
1278 Q: Sunday...
1279
1280 A: Yeah, so...
1281
1282 Q: ...July 29th?
1283
1284 A: That - what, uh, what - what - what days did you want to know...
1285
1286 Q: Would - would that have been...
1287
1288 A: Yes, it was Sunday.
1289
1290 Q: ...Sunday, July 29th?
1291
1292 A: Yeah, it was Sunday, July 29th. And if you walk in the restaurant - so picture
1293 walking in, um, and the front doors are behind you, we were sat to the right on
1294 the, like, first level, like, there’s - there’s, like, a few different levels so we
1295 were sat on the right side and then in the right side, we were on the, like, left
1296 portion of the section on the right side, like, there’s - there’s little, like, single
1297 seater booths.
1298
1299 Q: Okay.
1300
1301 A: There’ really small.
1302
1303 Q: Okay.
1304
1305 A: So almost, like, in the center of the restaurant. Almost, but just, like, kind of

1306 on the right section of the - the main floor.
1307
1308 Q: Okay.
1309
1310 A: Okay. So there was that and...
1311
1312 Q: Did you pay - did he again pay with a gift card at that time?
1313
1314 A: Yes. Yes.
1315
1316 Q: Okay. All right.
1317
1318 A: And then we went home.
1319
1320 Q: Okay. Did you see him the following weekend?
1321
1322 A: Uh, no, ‘cause he was out of town.
1323
1324 Q: Okay. Do you know where he went?
1325
1326 A: He - yeah, he went to North Carolina.
1327
1328 Q: Do you remember the dates?
1329
1330 A: Uh, no, I think - I think, uh, I wanna say that he left on the 31st of July. I’m
1331 almost positive ‘cause we hung out the weekend prior at the sand dunes and
1332 then I came into work on Monday the 30th, I remember that. And then I think
1333 he left on Tuesday the 31st of July. I think. And I don’t remember when he
1334 got home.
1335
1336 Q: Okay. Next time you guys go out?
1337
1338 A: Uh, it was that Saturday...
1339
1340 Q: Saturday?
1341
1342 A: ...uh, the 11th...
1343
1344 Q: And you guys...
1345
1346 A: ...and that was...
1347
1348 Q: The Lazy Dog?
1349
1350 A: ...yeah, the st- yeah.

1351
1352 Q: Okay. So we got that all down. What’s next on your list?
1353
1354 A: Um, sorry, I was not - I forgot about all of that stuff and I didn’t...
1355
1356 Q: That’s all right.
1357
1358 A: ...(unintelligible), um...
1359
1360 Q: So we ran through something that I - on - you know, the first time we talked
1361 you were really tired. The second time you were overly stressed and you had
1362 thought of some very important stuff that you wanted to talk about, so it’s
1363 fine. And it - I don’t mind talking to you as many times as I have to talk to
1364 you to get everything down that could atten- you know, at some point be very
1365 important. It’s fine.
1366
1367 A: Understood.
1368
1369 Q: So just don’t - don’t...
1370
1371 A: Understood.
1372
1373 Q: ...worry about that. I, you know, my job is to talk to you and make sure that
1374 this stuff is, um, you know, placed in - in a - a report so it’s there forever, so
1375 it’s - it’s fine. Again, I - I just keep telling you every time, you - when you
1376 remember things, just call me and - and we’ll get it down, all right?
1377
1378 A: Okay. Okay. Yeah, and I hope you guys pull cameras on all that ‘cause, like,
1379 I’m trying to help you. I’m, like, I’m really, honestly disappointed that you
1380 guys don’t have all my text messages or don’t think that you do, like, it makes
1381 me sad, like, I really - I want you guys to have them, like, you need them and
1382 it’s - it’s frustrating to me, but it’s, like, I’ll just tell you everything I know
1383 and we’ll go from there.
1384
1385 Q: That’s right.
1386
1387 A: Um, hold on. Uh, hold on. What else? (Unintelligible). Oh, okay. So now let’s
1388 go to this last week.
1389
1390 Q: Okay.
1391
1392 A: Um, uh, let’s see (unintelligible). Okay. Um, so Monday. I think probably the
1393 most important conversation that I’ve had - I had with him after all of that
1394 took place was that first phone conversation on Monday night, like, the later
1395 one. Remember I told - you were telling me there’s two big ones?

 


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1396
1397 Q: Right.
1398
1399 A: And the first one was the one where he mentioned the sheets - the smelly
1400 sheets with his kids, and that was also the one where he was telling me he was
1401 gonna go get his wife’s wedding ring appraised. Um, that same conversation,
1402 he - I don’t remember exactly how he phrased this. I, like, I don’t remember,
1403 like, what led to this, but he told me, um, something about, like, he mentioned
1404 that he had told - I don’t know what he said. He said something about the
1405 separation and how, like, she was okay with - with the fact that he wanted a
1406 separation or that, um, something like that. And I remember thinking to
1407 myself, like, wait a minute. Wh- oh, God, I don’t - I’m, like, drawing a blank.
1408 It - here’s the deal is, like, he had been telling me the whole time that I was,
1409 like, spending time with him. That he was getting separated - getting separated
1410 and he kept saying that he was the one who initially initiated the separation
1411 and then that it was more of a mutual thing, like, he said that he was the one
1412 who had initially brought it up...
1413
1414 Q: Okay.
1415
1416 A: ...uh, like, before we had met, and then, like, she was onboard with it where
1417 she was just, like, “I’m not happy either. Let’s do this.” Um, and then I, um, I
1418 remember telling you guys that when he was gonna go to North Carolina, I
1419 kind of, like, backed away from the situation and I was, like, “Hey, I think you
1420 should try to fix things with her because you have a really beautiful life with
1421 her and I think you should try to fix stuff.” And he kept telling me, like, you
1422 know, “I don’t want to. I don’t think she wants to.” And I was just, like,
1423 “Please try, like, just please try.” Like, I just thought he had such a beautiful
1424 life and - and, you know, and I was willing to just leave, like, leave his life. I
1425 was, like, “If you work things out with your wife, I’m gone.” And, like, I - and
1426 - and that’s fine, you know, and - and he’s always be, like, “Well, what about
1427 us?” I’d be, like, “Don’t worry about us, like, try to fix stuff with her.” And he
1428 said, “Okay, I will.” And then when he went to North Carolina, he told me
1429 that he sat down and had a conversation with her and that he told her that he
1430 wanted to fix it. That is what he said to me. He told her that he wanted to fix it
1431 and she said, “No.” That she still wanted the separation and that she was ready
1432 to file for divorce. So I was under the impression, when he got home from
1433 North Carolina, that the divorce was file. That was what I was under the
1434 impression. And so then on Monday when we were on that one phone call
1435 where he was just saying all sorts of weird stuff, he’s, like, again, like, I don’t
1436 remember exactly what was said, but it was something along the lines of, like,
1437 um, “She was okay with the fact that I wanted the separation.”
1438
1439 Q: Right.

1441 A: And then I remember asking him, I was, like, “Wait a minute. When you were
1442 in North Carolina, you told me that you tried to fix it with her and she was the
1443 one who said that she didn’t wanna fix it.”
1444
1445 Q: Okay.
1446
1447 A: And he’s, like, no, I just - and then he goes, “No, I just told her that I still
1448 wanted, you know, to continue with the separation.” And I’m just thinking in
1449 my head, like, “He lied to me. God, he fuckin’ lied to me.” He lied so much. I
1450 - it’s - it’s...
1451
1452 Q: Okay. So that just struck you as another lie?
1453
1454 A: Yeah, so that one I don’t - well, it - it - yeah, well, and then now I’m seeing
1455 the news where he’s telling everybody that he separated from her on - that he
1456 said he was - he told her he wanted a separation on the Monday that she went
1457 missing and I’m just thinking in my head, like, “He told me that he had
1458 already had that conversation with her before I was in - even in his life.”
1459
1460 Q: Well, and so not to ‘cause you anymore stress, but so when you’re talking to
1461 him on Monday, this is Monday, right? This isn’t Sunday, this is Monday...
1462
1463 A: No, this is Monday.
1464
1465 Q: ...so this is after the event? This is after the murders?
1466
1467 A: Yes.
1468
1469 Q: He - he...
1470
1471 A: Yes.
1472
1473 Q: ...is telling you that he - she mentioned, uh, that it was o- she was okay with
1474 the separation, although you know now...
1475
1476 A: Yes.
1477
1478 Q: ...that, um, that wasn’t accurate with those - that was something different than
1479 he had previously told you and certainly she couldn’t’ve been really saying
1480 anything unfortunately. So, I - I mean, he’s making - he’s making up stories
1481 after his wife is deceased. Do you - is that a fair statement?
1482
1483 A: Yeah, well...
1484
1485 Q: Is that - I’m - I’m kind of trying to follow where you’re going.

1486
1487 A: I - I don’t honestly, I - it just struck me as odd because I don’t know if he was
1488 talking about the conversation they had had that day, or...
1489
1490 Q: Okay.
1491
1492 A: ...he was talking about North Carolina. So either way...
1493
1494 Q: It just struck you as a lie?
1495
1496 A: ...it was weird - it - it - it struck me weird because he said that he was the one
1497 that was, like, pushing for it now. And I was just thinking in the back of my
1498 head, like, he - he made it sound like when I first got into his life that he was
1499 the one who had brought up the separation, but that she was, like, super gung-
1500 ho about it, like, he made it sound like she was all onboard with it. And then
1501 when they were in North Carolina, he’s the one who said that he tried to fix it
1502 and she wa- didn’t want anything to do with it, so it was weird to me when he
1503 was saying that he was the one that initiated the separation. ‘Cause I’m, like,
1504 “Wait a minute.” Like - and I think he - it - it was weird to me because I think
1505 he was referring to - to either whatever happened on Monday morning, or he
1506 was referring to whatever happened in North Carolina. And I was just really
1507 confused because I was, like, “Well, at that point, I thought she was the one
1508 pushing you away, like, not you pushing her.”
1509
1510 Q: Gotcha. Okay. All right.
1511
1512 A: Um, so I - I don’t - it’s just a lie.
1513
1514 Q: Yep.
1515
1516 A: I mean, honestly, I don’t know if it has any significance or it’s just - it was
1517 just a lie that I caught him. I don’t, I mean, I think everything he told me was
1518 a lie, but it was, like, a lie on top of - it - it’s a lie that contradicted the
1519 previous lies that he had told me.
1520
1521 Q: I understand. What’s next on your list?
1522
1523 A: So, uh, uh, let me see. Okay, so then in that same, exact conversation two
1524 more things happened.
1525
1526 Q: Okay.
1527
1528 A: One, um, I was asking him about his daughters EpiPen because I know that
1529 (CiCi) has that tree nut allergy...

1531 Q: Okay.
1532
1533 A: ...and I was, like, I was, like, a- again, like, I don’t remember, like, word for
1534 word, but it was something along the lines of, like, “She didn’t take your
1535 daughter’s EpiPen?” And he was, like, “No.” And I was, like, “Well, aren’t
1536 you a little worried?” ‘Cause I was, like, trying to do my own reconnaissance
1537 and I was, like, “Aren’t you worried about that?” And he’s, like, he’s, like,
1538 “Well, we have, like, a stash of them in the basement.” Or something like that.
1539 And he’s, like, “She probably just took one of those.” And I just thought it
1540 was weird because several weeks earlier he had told me how expensive
1541 EpiPens were so I’m, like, “If they’re that expensive, how the - how do you
1542 have a stash? You don’t have a stash. Nobody can afford a stash of EpiPens.”
1543
1544 Q: Right, they’re very expensive.
1545
1546 A: And - yeah, so I almost was, like, so at the time, like, I didn’t think anything
1547 of it, and now that I’m thinking about it I’m, like, “Well, that was a lie too.” 
1548 And so...
1549
1550 Q: Okay.
1551
1552 A: ...so there’s that. And then, um, also in that same conversation - so then I
1553 started questioning him about why he didn’t go to the office on Monday. And
1554 I was, like, uh, you know, and again, like, it’s not an abnormal thing for him
1555 to not go to the office, but it’s less common, like, I would say it happens
1556 maybe once, like, every couple weeks or maybe once or twice a month, like
1557 it’s - it’s pretty in, like, it occurs so it’s not, like, extremely abnormal, but I
1558 just thought it was ironic that his wife was missing and he wasn’t at the office
1559 that morning.
1560
1561 Q: Okay.
1562
1563 A: And so - and he - or here’s the deal. So Sunday night he had told me, “I have
1564 to go straight to the field.” I mean, I guess that’s something else you probably
1565 wanna know...
1566
1567 Q: Okay.
1568
1569 A: ...so I didn’t think of that. So Sunday night...
1570
1571 Q: So Sunday night - during which conversation? The - so one we’re talking
1572 about now...
1573
1574 A: Um, I don’t...

1576 Q: ...is your first - you referred to it as your first conversation. Um, I don’t
1577 remember, uh, you had two that were lengthy. One, I believe, was from 9:00
1578 to 11:00 at night, um, and we had talked a little bit...
1579
1580 A: It was...
1581
1582 Q: ...about this previously, about him saying that he wasn’t gonna go to the
1583 office, um...
1584
1585 A: Yeah, so - so he - okay, so - I’m - I’m sorry. It’s, like, I jump around
1586 sometimes...
1587
1588 Q: That’s okay.
1589
1590 A: ...when I start remembering stuff. So he, um, the big conversation that we’re
1591 talking about, the really important one where he, like, gave me all those, like,
1592 weird, uh, one off details, that was the first, long conversation on Monday
1593 night. I don’t know what time that was, but that was, like, the first long one
1594 where he said all of that stuff, like, all of that was in one conversation.
1595
1596 Q: That - and when you say all that stuff, like, the smelly sheets, uh, talking
1597 about...
1598
1599 A: The ring.
1600
1601 Q: ...the ring...
1602
1603 A: ...the wedding ring...
1604
1605 Q: Okay.
1606
1607 A: ...the weird part where he slipped up about, like, him being the one to push...
1608
1609 Q: The se- okay, gotcha.
1610
1611 A: ...them separating and not her...
1612
1613 Q: So...
1614
1615 A: ...and, like, like, and - and then the EpiPen thing and then, um, all of that. And
1616 then so - so back to Sunday the - August the 12th, that night I believe we only
1617 had one phone conversation. I looked at it. I pulled up my phone records today
1618 and I’m pretty sure we only had one phone conversation, and then I think I
1619 just went to bed

1621 Q: Okay.
1622
1623 A: Um, but on Sunday night, um, that phone conversation - that’s the one where I
1624 heard the TV on in the background and I was, like, “Maybe he’s staying up
1625 and waiting for her.” Do you remember I told you guys that?
1626
1627 Q: Yes.
1628
1629 A: I was, like, “I think it was really weird that the TV was on, because he talks to
1630 me when he’s in bed and he wasn’t in bed.” Um, so that - that’s - this is the
1631 same conversation. In that conversation, he told me, “I have to go straight to
1632 the field tomorrow.” And he was just, like, you know, like, “I - I’m not gonna
1633 get to see you in the morning.” And I was just, like, “All right.” And I was,
1634 like, “Why?” And just, like, I gotta go, um, he’s, like, “I gotta go check out a
1635 site.” And, uh, like a release in the morning and a release is, like, when - when
1636 the oil industry has, like, like, a release of any type of, like, oil products or
1637 anything, like, from any of our equipment. And I was, like, I remember asking
1638 him, I was, like, “Well, why would you have to go check out the release?
1639 You’re not part of the environmental team.”
1640
1641 Q: So when you say release, is that...
1642
1643 A: He was...
1644
1645 Q: ...like, a spill?
1646
1647 A: Kind of, yeah. I mean, I don’t wanna call it...
1648
1649 Q: Or, like, something’s leaking or...
1650
1651 A: ...’cause - yeah, like, something’s leaking, like...
1652
1653 Q: Okay.
1654
1655 A: ...any - anything that’s involved with the oil and gas industry, anytime, like,
1656 so- like if a piece of equipment leaks. I mean, you gotta think they’ve got
1657 millions and millions of pieces of equipment, like...
1658
1659 Q: Sure.
1660
1661 A: ...it happens. And so he’s, like, “I have to go check out a release.” And I
1662 remember asking him, I was, like, “Why do you need to go do that? You are
1663 not part of the environmental team.” Because, like, our field operators, they
1664 will find releases and they’ll call - they’ll call our environmental team, which
1665 is, like, who I work for. They don’t call me though, ‘cause I’m not the one that


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1666 deals with that stuff, but they do call people, like, in my department and they
1667 say, “Hey, I’m on this - this jobsite and, you know, like, a tank battery’s
1668 leaking or, like, a - like, a - a oil tank’s leaking or something like that.” And
1669 then we go out and assess it and clean it up and so on and so forth. So
1670 (unintelligible)...
1671
1672 Q: So those are actually specialists that go out and clean this up and he’s not one
1673 of those people?
1674
1675 A: No, he’s not, but sometimes, like, those guys, like, his job is important to, like,
1676 shut in oil wells if there’s a leak or, like, shut valves if there’s a leak, like, he -
1677 he manages the equipment, so - so when he was, like, he’s, like, “I gotta go
1678 check out a release.” And I was, like, “Why are you going to do that? That’s
1679 not your job.” And he was just, like, “I just need to go check out some of the
1680 equipment where the release occurred.” Now that part didn’t really seem too
1681 odd to me because, I mean, it make sense that they’re, like, “Hey, we have a
1682 release.” Send an operator out and make sure all - oh, he said he had to do a
1683 lockout/tagout on the site, um, so that means that depending on where the
1684 release is, if it’s near a piece of equipment that could be pote- have, like,
1685 potential energy to be hazardous, what we do in the oil industry is what’s
1686 called lockout/tagout. And certified operators, such as himself, um, will go out
1687 there and they will pull a lock with a tag on the, like, the - on the piece of
1688 equipment where you operate it, um, so that it cannot be in use, like, they’ll
1689 de-energize the piece of equipment and, like, shut it down, and then they’ll put
1690 a lockout/tagout tag on it and then the point is is, like, so then if the
1691 environmental team comes in to clean up the mess, nobody accidently
1692 reenergizes this piece of equipment while we’re trying to clean up the mess
1693 because it could injure somebody. Does that make sense?
1694
1695 Q: Yes. I got it.
1696
1697 A: Okay. So - so now I’m remembering this just now and he was, like, he’s, like,
1698 “I think I gotta go do a lockout/tagout on some of that equipment for the
1699 release.”
1700
1701 Q: Would that be something that would’ve been tracked? Certainly, um, there’s a
1702 lot of, uh, paperwork and safety requirements and all sorts of things with each
1703 site, so if he was actually going to do a lockout/tagout, would that be
1704 something that I’d be able to look at - record at Anadarko and - and know that
1705 he was actually assigned to do that?
1706
1707 A: To be honest with you, probably. Again, I do not work with him, um, but if
1708 there’s one thing that I do know about Anadarko and I love and I’m gonna
1709 miss those guys so much, it’s the fact that they’re very safe, like, that is -
1710 they’re one of the best oil and gas companies because of how safe they are.

1711 Um, so with that being said, I would be willing to bet that there’s typically...
1712
1713 Q: Well, like, you...
1714
1715 A: ...a protocol.
1716
1717 Q: Right. So I - I mean, th- there would have to be a known problem for him to
1718 do a lockout/tagout, right?
1719
1720 A: Yes.
1721
1722 Q: So...
1723
1724 A: Yes.
1725
1726 Q: ...somebody would’ve had to call and said, hey, there’s a - in your guys’ 
1727 words, release, um, at this site and then some boss or whoever it may be
1728 would call Chris and say, “Hey, Chris. I need you to go check this out. If it’s
1729 so, you’re a skilled, um, equipment operator, you make the decision. You lock
1730 it out if you have to.” Then the environmental team comes and cleans it up, so
1731 there’s gotta be, like, a track...
1732
1733 A: Yep.
1734
1735 Q: ...record of all that going on? Um...
1736
1737 A: Uh, I’m assu- I’m assuming that there probably is because lockout/tagout...
1738
1739 Q: ...because if...
1740
1741 A: ...I mean, it’s - it’s to save lives so it’s a very serious thing...
1742
1743 Q: Right, it’s a safety thing...
1744
1745 A: ...and, like, certainly - certain people - yeah, and, like, only certain people are
1746 authorized, like, I couldn’t lockout/tagout something, like, I don’t have...
1747
1748 Q: Right.
1749
1750 A: ...that certification.
1751
1752 Q: Plus you’re shutting down...
1753
1754 A: It’s not...

1756 Q: ...a piece of equipment that makes money. So, um...
1757
1758 A: Yes.
1759
1760 Q: ...somebody wants to know that, right?
1761
1762 A: Yes.
1763
1764 Q: Somebody - there...
1765
1766 A: Yes.
1767
1768 Q: ...there is a, I mean, there - it - it’s a business. I’m just trying to think as a
1769 business person how they would - would do that because certainly if you’re
1770 doing that, they wanna get the team out there and clean up whatever is going
1771 on as soon as possible so...
1772
1773 A: So...
1774
1775 Q: ...they can piece of equipment back in order and running so they can continue
1776 to pump oil.
1777
1778 A: Understood. Understood. Well and, too, the thing - the other thing too is the,
1779 like, he hadn’t even looked at the site yet so it’s, like, how do you know that
1780 you need a lockout/tagout? I don’t know. Um...
1781
1782 Q: That - and that’s what I’m saying.
1783
1784 A: ...that is - that’s (unintelligible)...
1785
1786 Q: I mean, I would like to - it’s something for me to investigate. I’m just kind of
1787 trying to get a - ‘cause you obviously know a lot...
1788
1789 A: Yeah.
1790
1791 Q: ...more about the oil industry. I don’t know anything about it. That makes
1792 sense to me...
1793
1794 A: And that’s good.
1795
1796 Q: ...um, so that’s good. Cool. Thank you.
1797
1798 A: Yeah. I - I didn’t even, like, think of that till just now, so anyways, that is a
1799 question for Anadarko. That is not a question for me.

1801 Q: Yep.
1802
1803 A: Um, but, um, anyways, so he told me that he was gonna have to do that and I
1804 was, like, “All right. Cool.” You know, and then, um, and then - so he didn’t
1805 show up for wo- I mean, well, he did show up for work on Monday, but
1806 supposedly he was in the field. Um, and then Monday evening, um, after my
1807 friend (Jim) left, he - that’s when, uh, Chris and I spoke on the phone in that
1808 first, really extended conversation. Again, I don’t know exactly what time it
1809 was. It was late, but that first, really extended conversation. That’s when he
1810 started saying kind of all that really creepy stuff and then, um, he - in that
1811 conversation I started questioning him. And I was, like, I was, like, did you
1812 really - I don’t even remember exactly what I said, but I asked him, I was,
1813 like, “Did you really go to a job site this morning?” And he was, like, “Yeah.” 
1814 I was, like, “And who told you to go there?” And he - I think he said that his
1815 foreman had asked either him or his - his, like, co- cowing man is this guy
1816 named (Troy). I don’t know (Troy). I don’t even know what he looks like, but
1817 I do know he - he exists, so he - he - I guess their foreman relies on Chris and
1818 (Troy) to kind of, like, run their little part of the field. And so Chris was, like,
1819 he was, like, “Yeah, my foreman asked either he or (Troy) to go out there and
1820 go look at it.” And...
1821
1822 Q: Do you know his foreman’s name?
1823
1824 A: Um, I don’t - he’s got a few of ‘em I think.
1825
1826 Q: Okay.
1827
1828 A: I wanna say...
1829
1830 Q: That’s okay.
1831
1832 A: ...I wa- wanna say (Luke Eppel), but I don’t know. You’re gonna need to find
1833 that out with Anadarko too.
1834
1835 Q: Okay.
1836
1837 A: That’s an Anadarko question.
1838
1839 Q: That’s all right.
1840
1841 A: Um...
1842
1843 Q: And I know - I know who...
1844
1845 A: ...but I...

1846
1847 Q: ...(Luke) is and I know who (Troy) is, so we probably have already answered
1848 that. Um...
1849
1850 A: Okay.
1851
1852 Q: ...all right?
1853
1854 A: Yes.
1855
1856 Q: Great.
1857
1858 A: So, um, anyways, um, so I told him to prove it ‘cause at this point, I mean, the
1859 things he’d been saying, like, the sheets was kind of weird. You know what it
1860 was? It was the wedding ring comment that freaked me out, like, the sheets
1861 did, like, was kind of weird at the time, um, and the fact that I thought he had
1862 maybe had just lied to me about their separation, but it was, like, the wedding
1863 ring comment, like, he was so callous, like, he was just ready to, like, cash it
1864 in and get some money...
1865
1866 Q: You were telling...
1867
1868 A: ...and I was just, like...
1869
1870 Q: ...him to prove what?
1871
1872 A: To prove that they had told him to go to the field right away.
1873
1874 Q: Okay. So...
1875
1876 A: And he’s, like, “How do you want me to do that?” And I was, like, “You take
1877 screenshots of your Anadarko phone and you text them to me.”
1878
1879 Q: And did he do that?
1880
1881 A: And I ma- yes, he did.
1882
1883 Q: Okay. All right.
1884
1885 A: And he didn’t - he didn’t send me the whole conversation, but it - there was
1886 two pictures of a release, um, followed intermittently with, like, there was
1887 texts, like, on either side of the picture and, um, it looked - I, like, I - I didn’t
1888 get everything. He just sent me, like, part of their conversation and I didn’t
1889 have dates and times on either, like, you couldn’t see the dates and times of
1890 what he was sending me, so he could’ve been sending me something that was,

1891 like, not recent. It could’ve been something from, like, weeks ago and I
1892 wouldn’t’ve known, but, um, he sent it to me. And he sent it quick, like, it
1893 just, like, instantaneously when I asked him for it, like, I was still on the
1894 phone with him and...
1895
1896 Q: Right.
1897
1898 A: ...then I looked at it while I was still on the phone, and it looked - it - it made
1899 sense with what he’d been saying, but...
1900
1901 Q: Okay.
1902
1903 A: ...the only thing in there - yeah, like, it almost looked like someone else was
1904 originally gonna go to that site and th- it looked like the conversation -
1905 someone I interpreted it, the conversation that he had had with his foreman
1906 and with (Troy) or whoever was in that - that conversation, it looked like the
1907 conversation had occurred probably at some point over the weekend. And then
1908 it looked like (Troy), I think, or somebody else in the field was originally
1909 gonna go out there on - first thing on Monday and he told them not to worry
1910 about it and that he would do it.
1911
1912 Q: Okay.
1913
1914 A: And - and I, again, I don’t know the exact words, like, I don’t have that whole
1915 conversation. Again, that is something that you - you need to go to Anadarko
1916 for that.
1917
1918 Q: Yep. Okay. What’s next?
1919
1920 A: Uh, um, and yes, well, then that was - and that conversation - that’s the end of
1921 that and then...
1922
1923 Q: Okay.
1924
1925 A: ...um, what else - what else - what else? Oh, um, so, uh, okay, and then that
1926 same night, um, remember I told you we had that one, big phone conversation
1927 that you and me just discussed, and then we FaceTimed for, like, two
1928 minutes...
1929
1930 Q: Right.
1931
1932 A: ...and then - and then we had another big phone conversation?
1933
1934 Q: Yep.

1936 A: So when - when we FaceTimed, um, I don’t know - I don’t know. I’ll just - I
1937 don’t know if it’s relevant but, like you say, just say it anyways? Uh, he was
1938 wearing a black, wife beater, um, I think it was black. And I told you guys that
1939 he was laying on a mattress that had no sheets? And, um, so I’ve been in his
1940 house, but I’ve never been in his kids’ room or the room where his wife slept,
1941 like, I went upstairs once, but it was back to that little playroom where all the
1942 books are at?
1943
1944 Q: Right.
1945
1946 A: But I did not go in any of their rooms up there, like, ever. But I remember that
1947 the time I did go upstairs, his - the bedroom door to the upstairs bedroom, like,
1948 the main room was open and I really, like, I didn’t wanna look, but, like, just
1949 when I was walking by, I noticed that they have, like, a really, big bed, like,
1950 uh, it was, like, a tall, pillory - just, like, a big bed, uh, frame. And so, um, I
1951 don’t really know exactly what it looked like. It just looked like a quick
1952 glance or whatever - it’s just, like, “That looks really big and, um, nice, you
1953 know.”
1954
1955 Q: Sure.
1956
1957 A: Uh, but again, like, I didn’t go in there so I didn’t get, like, a good view of it,
1958 but I noticed that night that we were FaceTiming, I was trying to figure out
1959 where the hell he was because I was, like, I was, like, he was laying down
1960 talking to me and he didn’t have any sheets on the bed, um, but the
1961 background didn’t look like the basement. And I’ve seen the basement and
1962 I’ve seen the bed in the basement, like, I’ve seen his little dwelling area down
1963 there and it didn’t look like that. And I saw, um, it kind of looked like he was,
1964 I mean, he was laying down and he had the phone, like, facing him, but you
1965 could kind of see in the background, like, the bed and it looked like - like a
1966 really, elegant, really tall bedframe.
1967
1968 Q: So you think it was the master bedroom?
1969
1970 A: Yes, I do.
1971
1972 Q: Okay.
1973
1974 A: I think it was. I didn’t - I didn’t ask, but I’m assuming it was and just no
1975 sheets on there.
1976
1977 Q: Okay.
1978
1979 A: Like, I remember the mattress - if I remember pro- properly, I think it was
1980 blue, but I don’t remember, um, 100%, but he was just, like, laying on it in a


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1981 black, wife beater and I just remember, like, seeing this - and - and again, like,
1982 I am not - I’ve never been in that room so I don’t know...
1983
1984 Q: Okay.
1985
1986 A: ...100%, like, “Oh, that was it.” It just - it - it kind of looked like something
1987 very elegant and it definitely was not what was in the basement.
1988
1989 Q: Okay. What’s next?
1990
1991 A: Um...
1992
1993 Q: Keeping you on track.
1994
1995 A: I’m trying to go in order. I think that’s it.
1996
1997 Q: Okay.
1998
1999 A: I think that’s all I’ve got.
2000
2001 Q: So, I asked you a couple questions, um, when I was driving, when we talked
2002 earlier today, and since we weren’t...
2003
2004 A: Okay.
2005
2006 Q: ...on tape, I’m gonna just ask again, um...
2007
2008 A: Okay.
2009
2010 Q: ...which was, uh, when - when I - I called you after we looked at your phone
2011 download and told you that the messages you deleted, um, like, right now,
2012 they don’t look, I mean, I can’t see them, so I’m trying to recover them, like I
2013 told you, through, uh, some computer forensics. We’ll see if we - we can get
2014 that done. But, um, one of the questions that I had for was if you ever social
2015 media and you said you did not. So...
2016
2017 A: No.
2018
2019 Q: ...you don’t use...
2020
2021 A: I - I don’t. I...
2022
2023 Q: ...any social media, you’ve never used Facebook or Facebook Messenger, uh,
2024 with Chris?

2026 A: No, nothing. I’ve never used any social media with him at all. I have
2027 LinkedIn, um, when him and I first started hanging out, um, for business
2028 purposes, but it was something that I was, like, never on and then, um,
2029 honestly, once all this - all of this news media stuff and everything started
2030 happening, I deleted the - the LinkedIn just so that it’s - it’s harder for these
2031 people to try to come track me down and ask me a million questions, um, but
2032 I...
2033
2034 Q: Okay.
2035
2036 A: ...never, ever spoke to him on that. I don’t even think he has it. I don’t even
2037 know. I, like, never used it...
2038
2039 Q: Okay. And then...
2040
2041 A: ...so I don’t know. But as far, like, actual, social media, I haven’t had any of
2042 that other stuff, like, Twi- I’ve never had Twitter, I’ve never had Instagram, I
2043 haven’t had Facebook since 2016 so no, him and I never had any connection
2044 on any social media.
2045
2046 Q: Do you know when he closed his Facebook?
2047
2048 A: No, no, I’m glad you brought that up because I forgot to write that down the
2049 other day. He mentioned that to me on Saturday when we were at dinner. I
2050 think it was either when we were walking in the restaurant or walking out of
2051 the restaurant.
2052
2053 Q: Okay. And what did he say?
2054
2055 A: He just, like, offhandedly was, like, uh, “I shut down my Facebook.” And I
2056 was, like, “What? Why?” And he’s, like, “‘Cause I’m never really on there.” 
2057 He’s, like, “She used to be on there all the time, uh, for work.” And he’s, like,
2058 “But I don’t need it.” And he just, like, it was, like, very, like, random,
2059 nonchalant comment. And I was...
2060
2061 Q: So do you - was...
2062
2063 A: ...surprised. Oh, and then I - no, no, no, no. And then I asked him, I said - I
2064 said, “Did you - did you shut it down all the way?” And he kind of, like, gave
2065 me this puzzled look and I was, like, “You have to actually, like, write
2066 Facebook with a letter, I mean, not, like, a letter, letter, but you need to send
2067 them an email. You can’t just deactivate it.” I was, like, “You need to send
2068 them an email that says I want you - I am so-and-so. I want you to shut my
2069 account.”

2071 Q: So what was his response to that?
2072
2073 A: Um, um, I don’t remember what he said to me.
2074
2075 Q: So do you think he...
2076
2077 A: I really don’t...
2078
2079 Q: ...just deactivated it...
2080
2081 A: ...I don’t think he did it.
2082
2083 Q: ...not shut it down?
2084
2085 A: That’s what I think he did...
2086
2087 Q: Okay.
2088
2089 A: ...but I don’t think he - he - I don’t even think he knew that he hadn’t
2090 completely gotten rid of it.
2091
2092 Q: Okay.
2093
2094 A: ‘Cause I’ve done it so I know what you have to do to do it.
2095
2096 Q: Okay. Anything else?
2097
2098 A: Uh, no, but that was just kind of offhanded that you - you mentioned that, so,
2099 yeah...
2100
2101 Q: Okay.
2102
2103 A: ...but we - no - no, we never - we never talked on Facebook.
2104
2105 Q: And then I - I asked you, um, if - if necessary - if for some reason I needed to
2106 get your phone, um, that, uh, you would be willing to provide me the handset
2107 if - if necessary and you s- you were in agreement to that?
2108
2109 A: Yeah, I mean, just - you guys just give me something else so that I can, like,
2110 get ahold of people in my life that I need to get ahold of and, um, that’s fine.
2111
2112 Q: Okay.
2113
2114 A: Can I have it back when you guys are done though? I mean - and if you need
2115 to keep it I can, like, go get another phone if I have to.

2116
2117 Q: Well, we - we can work that out should that come up, um, I’m...
2118
2119 A: Okay.
2120
2121 Q: ...still waiting...
2122
2123 A: Okay.
2124
2125 Q: ...waiting for a call from the, uh, computer forensics expert to - to...
2126
2127 A: Okay.
2128
2129 Q: ...give me an idea because of your - your phone’s an iPhone, which makes an-
2130 my knowledge of this is that if you deleted something of- off an iPhone, it’s
2131 gone. Now I - I don’t know if that’s true or not, so I asked you also, uh, to call
2132 Verizon, ‘cause that’s your provider, and to see if they could give you some
2133 advice on that. Did you happen to do that?
2134
2135 A: I did. So, um, I - I got on their online chat and I - I saved that in case, for some
2136 reason, you guys need it you can see that I asked them. Um, I was able to -
2137 they told me that there’s, like, several cloud storage devices. They said that
2138 Verizon has a cloud and iPhone has the cloud, um, and I checked and, of
2139 course, my iPhone cloud backup is not, uh, it’s not active...
2140
2141 Q: Okay.
2142
2143 A: ...so go figure? I just - I don’t - I don’t pay attention to that stuff, I really
2144 don’t.
2145
2146 Q: Well, that’s...
2147
2148 A: Um...
2149
2150 Q: ...why I asked you if you used any cloud stuff earlier, um, so none of that was
2151 active?
2152
2153 A: No, that was not - and then I asked ‘em, they’re, like, “Well, your - your
2154 phone works with Verizon, uh, Verizon iCloud.” And I was, like, “Well, how
2155 do I activate that? Like, how do I open that - open that? Where do I find that
2156 in my phone?” And he’s, like, “Oh, it’s an app. You have to download the
2157 app.” And I was, like, “Well, is anything from previous conversations gonna
2158 be on there if I haven’t downloaded the app yet?” And he said, “No.”
2159
2160 Q: Okay.

 

Edited by Preety_India

INFJ-T,ptsd,BPD, autism, anger issues

Cleared out ignore list today. 

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2NDPH21AUG645PM

2161
2162 A: But I’ll let you guys look at that conversation and my phone and maybe...
2163
2164 Q: No, no, no.
2165
2166 A: ...you guys can figure out something...
2167
2168 Q: It makes perfect sense to me.
2169
2170 A: ...that I can’t.
2171
2172 Q: I know exactly what they’re saying. So that was their only...
2173
2174 A: So...
2175
2176 Q: They were saying if you had the cloud it would’ve been backed up to the
2177 cloud, but since you didn’t, you - the messages are gone.
2178
2179 A: Yeah. And my iPhone Cloud is not backing anything up either...
2180
2181 Q: Right.
2182
2183 A: ...so - I...
2184
2185 Q: Okay.
2186
2187 A: ...it - it’s just not active so I’m really sorry about that. But...
2188
2189 Q: That’s okay.
2190
2191 A: ...um, on a good note - so then, um, I found this thing under data usage. I’ll
2192 show you. I was gonna bring my laptop in when I come, um, not that you need
2193 anything off of there, but just so I can, like, show you the - my Verizon
2194 account and maybe we can see if we can dig up some stuff on there, but I
2195 found a, um, I found, uh, messages and it wasn’t the actual body of the text
2196 message, but it was, like, the date and time and the phone...
2197
2198 Q: Okay.
2199
2200 A: ...number that it went to, and I received it and I got really excited. I was, like,
2201 “Oh, my God. It’s a message log.” And even if it wasn’t the body of the
2202 message, it would probably help us to figure out what’s missing and what’s
2203 not. And I was super excited and then I started scrolling through it and
2204 realized the last ones that they have are from 8-14, so I think they keep ‘em
2205 for a week and then they get rid of ‘em.

2206
2207 Q: Okay. So did you screenshot that?
2208
2209 A: I wish I would’ve known that two days ago - what’s that?
2210
2211 Q: Did you take a screenshot of that or anything like that?
2212
2213 A: I mean, I can if you want me to.
2214
2215 Q: Or is it - is it in your...
2216
2217 A: It just...
2218
2219 Q: ...is that in your personal Verizon account?
2220
2221 A: Yes.
2222
2223 Q: Yeah, so would you just, um, like, print that page or do something for me?
2224 ‘Cause in the event that they are just, you know, computer generation
2225 deletion, uh, if there is something there, I’d like to try to save it as much as we
2226 can.
2227
2228 A: Well, I mean, I wish you guys would’ve told me this, like, two days ago
2229 because if they’re only saving - it looks like they’re not saving the body of the
2230 messages. It looks...
2231
2232 Q: Right.
2233
2234 A: ...like what they’re doing is they’re saving the date and time, it’s like a
2235 timestamp for the text messages...
2236
2237 Q: Sure.
2238
2239 A: ...and who they came from, and it looks like they’re only saving ‘em for a
2240 week, like...
2241
2242 Q: Right.
2243
2244 A: ...today they went to 8-14, and I’m afraid that if I wait, tomorrow they’ll only
2245 go to 8-15.
2246
2247 Q: Right.
2248
2249 A: You know what I’m saying?

2251 Q: Yeah, so if you print those tonight...
2252
2253 A: So, and - and I was...
2254
2255 Q: ...that’d be great.
2256
2257 A: ...just, like, I know, I was so bummed. I was, like, the two days I needed, like,
2258 right before where they cut it off.
2259
2260 Q: Yeah, that’s okay.
2261
2262 A: Um...
2263
2264 Q: I think we’re gonna be okay with what we have, um, like I said, I’m just
2265 trying to make sure we have as much information as possible. And sometimes
2266 it takes a little bit of extra work to get to that information, but I’m okay with
2267 that because it could be very important later on down the line. It could be very
2268 important now, um...
2269
2270 A: Uh...
2271
2272 Q: ...but, I just don’t wanna lose...
2273
2274 A: ...I agree. Well, and ‘cause it’s, like, I know that sometimes, like, I can miss
2275 some things, but also, like, I want you guys to see those texts because maybe
2276 there is something important there that I can’t even think of, you know...
2277
2278 Q: Sure.
2279
2280 A: ...or not only that, but, like, it validates everything that I’m saying to you
2281 guys...
2282
2283 Q: Right.
2284
2285 A: ...you know?
2286
2287 Q: Okay.
2288
2289 A: Um...
2290
2291 Q: Well, I’ll work on the texts and, um, like I said, I’m gonna talk to, um, the
2292 other agent who, um, is kind of the - the lead agent on this case, and I think
2293 that she’s gonna wanna sit down with you and kind of, like, go through the
2294 contexts of the messages to get a better idea, you know, ‘cause text messages
2295 are just words, you - you - we don’t know what was said before that in a

2296 phone conversation, or what might’ve been followed up in a phone
2297 conversation or what started - prompted a text message to be sent, either from
2298 a prior meeting or something like that. So it - it’ll be very helpful. Um, I don’t
2299 think that’s gonna happen this week ‘cause I know she’s super busy, so just be
2300 patient with that. Uh, that information isn’t going anywhere, we have that
2301 retained. And - and I appreciate you saying that you’ll, uh, cooperate in doing
2302 that.
2303
2304 A: No, I mean, I really wanna help you guys, I mean, I - I have no reason not to
2305 help you guys. I, uh, I - I’m - I can’t even believe he’s trying to blame this on
2306 his wife. I - I just - I can’t even imagine, like, how hard he’s making this on
2307 the family right now. It’s just - it makes me so sad. It’s so sad.
2308
2309 Q: Right.
2310
2311 A: I, uh...
2312
2313 Q: All right. Well, keep taking...
2314
2315 A: ...we-
2316
2317 Q: ...notes as new things come to mind.
2318
2319 A: Okay. Um, but I was gonna tell you I did get my phone log...
2320
2321 Q: Okay.
2322
2323 A: ...um, um, I got everything through the 13th was on my last month’s billing
2324 statement, so I got a .pdf of that. I did save it. It’s on my desktop, um, and it
2325 shows all my inco- incoming and outgoing in it and it - it shows, like, where it
2326 was generated from so, like, if I was at work it shows, like, Platteville, and if I
2327 was at home it says Thornton, like...
2328
2329 Q: Sure.
2330
2331 A: ...um, I’ve got those.
2332
2333 Q: Do you have, um, do you have my email address on my business card?
2334
2335 A: Okay. You want me to just email that to you?
2336
2337 Q: That’d be great. Then, um...
2338
2339 A: Okay. And then I...

2341 Q: ...that’d be the easiest for both of us.
2342
2343 A: Okay. And then my next billing cycle, uh, started on the 14th, so if you guys
2344 want home, I mean, if you want the phone records from the 14th, they’re not,
2345 like, in this nice .pdf because they haven’t billed ‘em for me yet. They’re, like,
2346 in this weird, shitty Excel file and I tried to, like, open it, and, like, like, make
2347 it user friendly and readable, and I don’t - I feel like it’s an Excel sheet. I - I
2348 don’t - I don’t know...
2349
2350 Q: It’s fine. Yeah...
2351
2352 A: ...what to do with it, I mean...
2353
2354 Q: ...I know what it - it’s in. You - it - it’ll be fine, uh, you can send it to me
2355 however you have it.
2356
2357 A: So you want the Excel? Okay, so do you want the Excel sheet too? ‘Cause I,
2358 like I said...
2359
2360 Q: Sure.
2361
2362 A: ...I have the .pdf copy goes...
2363
2364 Q: Yep.
2365
2366 A: ...through the 13th, and then the Excel is, like...
2367
2368 Q: That...
2369
2370 A: ...sheet is, like, 14th on, but the date - the dates don’t show up on the Excel
2371 sheet when I - when I downloaded it. I don’t know. I gotta look at it and see...
2372
2373 Q: Okay.
2374
2375 A: ...if I can get that to - to work. And if - and if it doesn’t work, I mean, at the
2376 end of this billing cycle, which will be in probably, like, three weeks or so, uh,
2377 then I can give you the 14th...
2378
2379 Q: Yep.
2380
2381 A: ...you know what I mean?
2382
2383 Q: And then just - yeah, you can just send me everything that you have, uh, off
2384 this most recent, and then when your bill comes in if - if you’d be, uh, if you’ll
2385 remember to just send that to me. And, um, we’re...

2386
2387 A: Yeah.
2388
2389 Q: ...we’re getting those records, but again, I always like to ask - they’re your
2390 records, so I always ask for you to share those with me, uh, that way, uh, it
2391 just shows cooperation, number one. Number two, if we don’t have
2392 something, then I don’t have to go back and write a warrant to get it. You’re -
2393 you’re, uh, consenting to give it - that stuff me and - and it’s helpful to our
2394 investigation and that’s all that we really care about.
2395
2396 A: I know. And I want you guys, you know, to - to - to do the best that you can
2397 and so anyway that I can help - I’m really disappointed about those texts. I
2398 just - honestly, that wasn’t the first thing on my mind when I, like, deleted
2399 them. I was just, like, I was so disgusted with him. I was, like, “I don’t even
2400 wanna look at this, like, you need to go away from my life, like, right now.” 
2401 And I just boom, got rid of it.
2402
2403 Q: Okay.
2404
2405 A: I didn’t even, like, realize, like, “Oh, my God. These guys are gonna need...”
2406
2407 Q: You ca-
2408
2409 A: “...these.” Um...
2410
2411 Q: It’s okay. You - you didn’t know. We - we’ve talked - don’t beat yourself up
2412 about the texts, we’ll figure it out.
2413
2414 A: I (unintelligible).
2415
2416 Q: Okay?
2417
2418 A: Okay.
2419
2420 Q: All right?
2421
2422 A: I’m - I’m hoping we can recover most of them. Um, I think I had one more
2423 thing to say to you. I don’t know. The media is, like, really (unintelligible).
2424 Today it’s crazy. After I got off the phone with you, I literally probably got,
2425 like, numerous phone calls from friends and numerous texts from people
2426 saying that the media is, like, coming to their houses and asking them
2427 questions. So I don’t know. I must be hiding out pretty well because...
2428
2429 Q: Good.

 

Edited by Preety_India

INFJ-T,ptsd,BPD, autism, anger issues

Cleared out ignore list today. 

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2NDPH21AUG645PM

2431 A: ...they’re going to great links, like, I’ve had people that I haven’t talked to in,
2432 like, a year trying to contact me, like, people, like, old coworkers that I hardly
2433 even know are, like, “Hey, are you okay?”
2434
2435 Q: Well, just continue to do what you’re doing and your choice whether to talk to
2436 them or not. Again, you don’t have to talk to them if you don’t want to. Um,
2437 and just I - like we said before, your dad is probably your best ally in this and
2438 hopefully he’ll take some of the brunt of, uh, these people phoning and - and
2439 tell them to go away if that’s your wishes, and then, uh, go from there. But
2440 stay in touch with me. If you go somewhere, like, you know, if you’re gonna
2441 leave the state or whatever, just make sure you - let me know your phone
2442 number, um, and - and, uh, an address where - if I had to send you legal
2443 correspondence, you know, I could send that to you. Okay?
2444
2445 A: I will - I will definitely do that. I, you know, I’ve already discussed the
2446 situation with my dad where it’s, like, you know, I really need to see A,
2447 what’s going on with my employer and B, like, I kind of wanna wait until a lot
2448 of this media stuff happens and figure out, like, who is safe to give my new
2449 phone number to and who is and right now, I don’t have an answer for that, so
2450 I’m just kind of rolling with the number that I have.
2451
2452 Q: Uh, I...
2453
2454 A: So, we...
2455
2456 Q: Exactly, so...
2457
2458 A: ...we will see and I’m...
2459
2460 Q: ...uh, your number is, um, like, that information is, uh, available to, uh, the
2461 defense and the prosecution. When - when I write a re- like, if you change
2462 your number, um, it is available to - I - I have to generate a report so that goes
2463 out in discovery, so that could be, uh, something that they would see. Now
2464 whether or not they share that with the media or not, I mean, I’m not
2465 concerned that the prosecutor’s office is going to. I know my office isn’t
2466 going to, um, so just keep that in mind, um, you - you know, changing your
2467 stuff, uh, you - you’re almost obligated. In fact, I’ll tell you you are to keep
2468 me updated because you are a witness and you’re critical in this case, so we
2469 know how to - if somebody, you know, an attorney needed to get you for a - a
2470 hearing or something, uh, how to get in touch with you and that’s really what
2471 it’s about. Um, it’s not us keeping track of you or any of that stuff, so just -
2472 just remember that.
2473
2474 A: Oh, and I - I would definitely keep you guys in the loop. I mean...

2476 Q: Okay. Good.
2477
2478 A: ...and - and I guess, uh, my last question is how long does it usually take for
2479 them to find people? ‘Cause I feel like I’m pretty stashed because of how I’ve
2480 kept my information for the last, like, few years anyways, I think, has...
2481
2482 Q: I...
2483
2484 A: ...done me some justice.
2485
2486 Q: ...I don’t know, I mean, it just depends. I think if - sooner or later, I mean, it’s
2487 - you can always find somebody, I’ll tell you that. Now they have a lot of
2488 money and they have a lot of resources and - and they have a big desire to
2489 figure out who you are, um, so...
2490
2491 A: Right.
2492
2493 Q: ...I mean, do I think at some point that, you know, you’re gonna have to tell
2494 them, no comment or I don’t wanna talk to you or give a statement, whatever
2495 you decide to do, um, yeah, I do. And - and when - I don’t know, I mean,
2496 that’s a personal thing for you and - and your family, how you guys wanna
2497 decide to deal with that and maybe even, um, you know, with legal counsel at
2498 some point, you might wanna have somebody just to say, “Hey, leave my
2499 client alone.” Um, you know, I don’t know. And maybe that’s just your dad,
2500 uh, your dad seemed very concerned and willing to help when we met last
2501 week and maybe he’s just the right person to answer that question, uh, or, you
2502 know, to tell the media, “Look, my daughter’s not interested in talking to any
2503 of you, stop.” You know, um, I - I don’t know. And - and it’s not really a
2504 great question for me. I’d like to tell you, uh, I mean, I know what I would do,
2505 but I can’t tell you what to do. Do you know what I mean?
2506
2507 A: Right.
2508
2509 Q: O- only...
2510
2511 A: Right.
2512
2513 Q: ...you can make that choice.
2514
2515 A: Okay.
2516
2517 Q: So, but, uh, you’re...
2518
2519 A: Oh, understood.

2521 Q: ...to answer your question, I think if they wanna find you, they’re not gonna
2522 stop until they do. I - I really do.
2523
2524 A: No, I - I agree. I think - I’m - I’m impressed with the lengths that they’re
2525 going to right now. It’s kind of nice, but they haven’t done it yet. They’ve
2526 been looking for two days and they’ve been unsuccessful.
2527
2528 Q: Well, hopefully if you wanna stay hidden you will, and if I can help in any
2529 way - not with that stuff ‘cause I’m not really able to do that, but, um, you
2530 know, the rest of the stuff - I know we had you talking to (Hazel) and it
2531 sounds like we got that stuff going. If anything new comes up, don’t hesitate
2532 to call me. Don’t make it - don’t think like you’re bothering me or this is a
2533 problem. This is what I do. This is very important getting all this down...
2534
2535 A: Okay.
2536
2537 Q: ...and getting it - getting a record of it is very important, okay? So don’t
2538 hesitate to call me.
2539
2540 A: Okay. And then my question, um, can they, like, release my name to the
2541 papers if they have, like, no information on me? I’m sure that they’re trying
2542 to, like, put two and two together at this point, but I feel like that would be a
2543 very bold statement to be, like, this is who it was when they have no idea.
2544
2545 Q: I mean, so I - can they - they’re - they can do anything they want really, um, is
2546 there repercussions for doing anything? Of course. Um, do I think that they’re
2547 gonna be cautious? Um, I - I think that the media really, you know, they get
2548 involved in all these cases and they don’t report, uh, something until they -
2549 they know accurately, um, especially names because if - let’s say they say
2550 that, uh, your name is, you know, Nikki somebody else and you’re the wrong
2551 person. Do they open themself up to exposure to a lawsuit for slandering
2552 somebody’s name? Absolutely. So I don’t think that you need to worry about
2553 that, um, I do think it - like I told you this morning, there is some warrants that
2554 have gone out, um, I do believe that they’re sealed, uh, that do have your
2555 name in it because of the phone information, um, some of that stuff between
2556 you and Chris. Your name is in those. Now those are sealed. When those
2557 come unsealed, I don’t know. Um, that - that’s a judge’s decision, not mine,
2558 so a judge can continue to keep that sealed for the, you know, the length of the
2559 investigation if he wants to because it protects our investigation by not
2560 releasing information. And that’s the purpose of that is so people don’t know
2561 what we’re doing so the media can’t dig and find out what we’re doing and
2562 they can’t damage the case that we’re building, so, um, that - that could go on
2563 forever, so I - I don’t really have an answer for that. I - I don’t know how
2564 long.

2566 A: Okay.
2567
2568 Q: It - it varies, um, you know, depending on the judge and - and some legal
2569 decisions.
2570
2571 A: Okay.
2572
2573 Q: All right?
2574
2575 A: All right. Well, I...
2576
2577 Q: Hang in there.
2578
2579 A: ...appreciate your time and if I think of anything else, I will let you know...
2580
2581 Q: Okay.
2582
2583 A: ...but hopefully that is the end of it and...
2584
2585 Q: Great.
2586
2587 A: ...I will send you that, um, that record just for this month and then I’ll see if I
2588 can, like, clean up the Excel thing, but I don’t like something that you can
2589 manipulate data. I’d rather just give you - wait till the end of the month and
2590 give you the .pdf for the 14th...
2591
2592 Q: Sure.
2593
2594 A: ...moving forward.
2595
2596 Q: That’s fine too.
2597
2598 A: That would make me feel better.
2599
2600 Q: That’s fine. And then, um, I will be in touch with you here in the next, you
2601 know probably sometime next week to try to get you set up to come in and sit
2602 down, uh, to talk about all this information.
2603
2604 A: Okay.
2605
2606 Q: Okay? Hang in there, (Nicky).
2607
2608 A: All right. Thank you.
2609
2610 Q: All right. We’ll talk to you soon.

2611
2612 A: Ha- have a good night.
2613
2614 Q: You too.
2615
2616 A: Bye.
2617
2618 Q: Bye. The time is 8:14. Gonna end this recording.
2619
2620
2621 The transcript has been reviewed with the audio recording submitted and it is an accurate 
2622 transcription.
2623 Signed Agent Kevin Koback

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Preety_India

INFJ-T,ptsd,BPD, autism, anger issues

Cleared out ignore list today. 

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They lie 

They deflect the discussion 

They don't acknowledge 

They don't accept apologies 

They don't seek a resolution but pretend to 

They throw back blame 

They gaslight 

They don't accept their mistakes and flaws 

They project a lot 

They speculate that you will do something wrong in the future 

They get covert with their insults 

They put down 

They tend to gossip 

They like to bully 

They don't give a closure to the complainant 

They make the other person look like a drama Queen or drama creator 

They don't change 

They don't admit that they are the aggressor 

They don't like being confronted 

They like sarcasm 

They push back when confronted instead of accepting their actions. 

They make the discussion futile and drag it on with no proper closure 

They don't listen and already start defending before even listening 

They impose their opinions and will on others 

They never care or respect boundaries 

They resort to direct abuse when no one is watching 

They do passive aggressive shit 

They control the narrative 

They want to have the last word 

They twist the narrative 

They look for a scapegoat 

They play social games, power games and ego games. 

They show sociopathic tendencies where if they are given freedom, they get animalistic about it and use it to say the most abusive stuff 

They abuse their power of authority. 

They never accept or apologize or change. 

They never let you win or settle an argument. You never win with them no matter how much you try. 

 


INFJ-T,ptsd,BPD, autism, anger issues

Cleared out ignore list today. 

..

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