"Stand by". The future of America

[Sempiternity]

I'd love some opinions on this. When asked if he would condemn white supremacist groups Trump said "stand back and stand by".  He has been telling everyone clear as can be that the election will go to him one way or another. Telling his base that the very soul of this country is at stake and under Biden their way of life is over. Trump has ensured his base /the Right that the very soul, the future of this county and all it's people, is at stake. They are right, this is a fight for the future of this country. Each side's version of the future of this country is completely incompatible with the other. We are getting to the point where the two halfs of the country cannot coexist with each other.

Some have been saying for a long time that we could be heading for another civil war. Trump knows this, his base knows this, and he has been signaling to them, like tonight, to do whatever it takes to ensure he continues to stay in power. He told large groups of armed white supremacist groups, on streets in many many major cities across the country, to "stand by"! Basically saying wait for his word, after the elections, after Biden is declared the winner, and he will give the order. That order is going to be to use those loaded assault rifles and defend your country. At least that's the way I interpret it. 

So to me, a major armed militia reaction is inevitable. Here's my main question to be answered in the next couple months:

• How large will the armed white supremacist groups/Trump supporters response be when the time comes? 
  • Most of them could be all talk and when that time came they'd do nothing, or there could more out there than we think that are willing to 'go there' when the time come. Hard to say.
• Will these armed white supremacist groups/Trump supporters use deadly force if Trump tells them to?
• If so, to what degree will they take things? 
  • Will they kill people in the streets, and if so are we talking dozens, hundreds, thousands ... ? 
• If the armed white supremacist groups/Trump supporters use deadly force after the elections to keep Trump in power, who will stop them?
• Will the Democrats stop them?
• Will the cops stop them? 
• Will the military stop them?

The Democrats have proven themselves completely unprepared and toothless in fighting back against Trump. They seem powerless against Trump at every turn, and I don't see that changing when he attempts a coup and declares a dictatorship. They'll probably say "well, we tried". 

The cops have for the most part sided with Trump and the white supremacist groups. They are actively trying to stop any opposition of this coup happening. 

The military has officially said,  numerous times, they will not get involved. 

No one knows the future, but to me, it's not looking good.

Do you think we are headed towards one of the worst moments in American History since the Civil War?

Do you think this will be the end of Democracy/life as we know it here in this country in the up coming months?

If we are headed down this path, who do you think could stop it?

Is it possible to stop it from happening?

Will each half the country fight to the death to make sure the other half doesn't win?

Or do you think this is all more of Trumps lies and once Biden wins all this will be over? 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Jed Vassallo

[Opo]

3 minutes ago, Jed Vassallo said:

• The military has officially said,  numerous times, they will not get involved. 

Source? 

[Sempiternity]

1 minute ago, Opo said:

Source? 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/08/28/election-2020-top-general-says-military-have-no-role-election/5660726002/

[Opo]

14 minutes ago, Jed Vassallo said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/08/28/election-2020-top-general-says-military-have-no-role-election/5660726002/

They said that the military job is to keep Americans safe.

So if people with guns started walking around and pretending they are the authority military should step in and put them in their place. 

They also said that courts should be the ones who decide the winner and when courts decide I think they will step in.

They just don't want to step in before it's decided who is the next president. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Opo

[Sempiternity]

They're not stepping in now with loads of armed militia on the streets threatening people, will it be any different after the election? 

Trump is betting on his not accepting the results to go to the courts, and he, with his latest hand picked appointee, could have the majority of the Supreme court side with him. Going against the will of (what ever percentage Biden wins by) the majority of Americans. Pretty par for the course it seems, and to me the most likely outcome. 

If that happens would the military intervene? I doubt it. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Jed Vassallo

[No Self]

Keep in mind that the scenario of the two parties living in separate, incompatible worlds was already the case during the previous election, and even to some degree the one before that. What is surprising is that this trend has continued despite (or because of?) the sheer number of insane dramas of the past 4 years. The power of the Fox news network is clearly at play there.

Trump is unlikely to directly command his faction to initiate combat, though he does communicate with dog whistles so blunt that it would be hard to miss the concealed message.

I have no prediction of what will happen in the election itself, but I unfortunately am expecting a fair amount of violence in some areas regardless of the outcome. Syria's civil war started under somewhat similar circumstances, with an authoritarian ruler versus large rebel groups of former military personnel. My best advice to anyone reading this is to not participate in any protests or demonstrations as the tensions escalate (such as the ones that followed Trump's first election); they do not have a good track record in persuading bullets to change their trajectory.

[Sempiternity]

3 minutes ago, No Self said:

My best advice to anyone reading this is to not participate in any protests or demonstrations as the tensions escalate (such as the ones that followed Trump's first election); they do not have a good track record in persuading bullets to change their trajectory.

All good points. But if the people don't stand up to what's most likely coming, and the government won't, and the police won't, and the military wont, who will then? With no opposition, doesn't it mean Trump will stay in power and it's the end of our democracy? 

[Opo]

2 minutes ago, Jed Vassallo said:

They're not stepping in now with loads of armed militia on the streets threatening people, will it be any different after the election? 

Idn what specifically they are doing but if they are just outside with guns and a few of them are threatening people they should be left alone. Because if you try to silence them it will just escalate. 

I am talking if they start shooting people and enforcing their own laws military would step in. 

[Sempiternity]

3 minutes ago, Opo said:

I am talking if they start shooting people and enforcing their own laws military would step in. 

Very much hope you're right.

[No Self]

23 minutes ago, Jed Vassallo said:

All good points. But if the people don't stand up to what's most likely coming, and the government won't, and the police won't, and the military wont, who will then? With no opposition, doesn't it mean Trump will stay in power and it's the end of our democracy? 

It is important to advocate for change that you believe in, but it is important to use tactics that are effective.

The mindset that saw pro-reform protesters massacred in Sharpville (South Africa) in 1960, Tiananmen Square in 1989 or Syria in 2011 is absolutely primed in modern day US. Leftist protesters have been defamed as pests who need to be beaten into submission, or even a threat to a way of life that must be exterminated. In this climate, traditional protests could be a counterproductive measure. Other ways must be found, and we must accept that it could end up taking many years to restore democracy.

[Preety_India]

 

Trump is a war monger. He openly embraces terrorism like the white supremacist groups that he wants to stand behind him. Look at his audacity now that He is a president. 

He is highly likely going to cause a race war with his hateful war mongering tactics, he already did it with his "when the looting starts, the shooting starts" tweet, that's not a proper mindset, and this war is no disaster to Trump, he will sit back with popcorn and enjoy it because it's all entertainment for him as long as his life is not in danger, it's no concern for him how many Americans lose their lives meanwhile he lives with 24/7 security and this was clearly visible in his coronavirus response, he did not care if people died, he was seeking a validation for his own messed up Ideologies about the coronavirus. 

For Trump, the only thing that matters is victory, people cheering for him, even if it came at the price of millions of lives, so he will be excited at the prospect of a race war, for hmm, the sight of people fighting over him will be a moment of pride rather than disaster. He will keep tweeting calmly from his tower and not give one damn about people dying in streets 

Trump is an embodiment of a war mongering evil dictator. And he also makes sure that he cashes in on it..he capitalizes on people's sentiments to fatten his bank account. 

He constantly divides America by using "they", it's already a battle in his mind because he has made everything about his people VS they. In the debate, he did not say the American public but used the words "my people", of course, because it's all about him and his cult fanatics and the fringe white supremacists groups that always stand by him. 

I pray that he is not elected and does not win the election by scrupulous means. He has a dangerous mind. 

He is a con artist with his fake fascism. Conning the government out of taxes and conning the people out of peace and security. 

If the mindset like Trump continues, American constitution will be posed a major threat, that's why he needs to be impeached if he becomes President. 

He is not only a threat to Democratic values but also a huge con job on finances. He will ruin the finances, since he has done nothing to improve the economic situation, he doesn't have a plan in hand for Medicare, he only keeps repeating bogus talking points and false claims of success that doesn't exist. 

The only reason he manages to attract a crowd is because he is able to appeal to their white supremacist mindset, he feeds on their subconscious beliefs that they can't bring out in the open. He gives words to forbidden feelings and thoughts.. 

He is a threat to national peace and security, given his large burden of debt, nobody in the oval office is allowed to remain with that. He enjoys special privileges because like a child he demands them. 

He said that he would do so much for black Americans that Hillary couldn't do in 10 years, this was in 2016 debate and 4 years later he has slapped black people in their faces, by making disparaging comments on black people and undermining their progress, encouraging a race war. 

Pandemic, war, this is nothing for Trump, he gets to live in his golden tower and watch the mayhem below. 

He used the presidency to his business advantage, installed his family members in the white house like good old nepotism. 

He does exactly what a cunning authoritarian would do. With no shame or remorse. His only goal is selfishness because that's all he learned all his life in his business, running his business like a ponzi scheme, smooth talking nonsense to pull people in and then no outcome, just funds invested into his businesses, and then he set his eyes on the presidency because he realized that if he can con so many people that he can even con a nation to do his bidding. 

This presidency is not a service or leadership for Trump, it's just an opportunity to further his agenda and his career to puff his ego and satisfy his last wish of becoming a president, this is petulant man child's wish to win a game against all odds just for the thrill, he is not about making anything great, but exploiting everything for his needs. 

 

[No Self]

6 hours ago, neutralempty said:

You know, I always wonder, how there are billions of sentient beings right now being tortured and holocausted for taste pleasure and habits, while people caught in these huge opinions of presidential candidates.

I happen to agree!

At the end of the day, the events that you speak of boil down to contemporary society being just plain primitive. Apes with technology. Wooden clubs replaced with F-35 fighter jets and ICBMs. And spears replaced by slaughterhouses.

Historically, human primitiveness has been caused by the inevitable outcome of primitive vs. advanced combat. John Green once told the story of native Americans quizzing European invaders on the issue of land ownership. They asked, "Isn't the Earth for all of God's men?", to which the Europeans responded with guns. The shameless lying and cheating of the more primitive side in today's politics is a microcosm of the same thing, except that the outcome is less inevitable.

The election outcome is significant because it involves the most influential country on Earth and whether its direction will move towards enlightenment, or revert towards primitiveness such as fossil fuels, environmental destruction, authoritarianism, racism, cruelty, etc.

[Gidiot]

@Preety_India very well said. Trumps politics are a politics of hate, fear, cowardice, barbarity, sexism, racism, xenophobia, exclusion, division, violence, white supremacy, egocentric narcissism, regression, authoritarianism, fascistic ideals, science denial, anti-intellectualism, laziness, aggression, entertainment, con artistry, toxic masculinity, toxic stage blue,red, and orange, projection, denial, toxic sexuality, bullying, and braggadocio that has all been vicious and unwarranted to be thrust on the American people Even if they voted for him. It’s been an exasperatingly long four years under trump and it’s been so bad I would gleefully celebrate the election of someone like Joe Biden,

we need to a return to love and I feel love will win, I am not pessimistic about this at all, I think people are sick and tired of trump and his lies and craziness, 

I will send energy out before the election with all my hear in order to imagine a better future, the collective consciousness needed to see how destructive the Republican Party was to a peaceful livelihood and how fragile everything we built actually is.

america needs to redeem itself to the world and while Biden isn’t a visionary he’s what we need to elect to get us to that visionary. Baby steps.

I hope all of you will send out loving energy into the world and hope for the best, it is certainly a crucial election and we need to tell all the fascists that work under trunk that their strategies will not work in the long term because they are based off of falsehoods like genetic superiority and hate being stronger than love. 
 

we will get there if he wins again we will make sure he feels our pain. 
 

I wish everyone the best in these times and to get through this 

[Sempiternity]

Just to add to the conversation:
 

Hyperbolic? Maybe.