STUDY GROUP--The Book of Not Knowing--

[seeking_brilliance]

Welcome to the study group for "The Book of Not Knowing" by Peter Ralston.

If you have this book, you can read along with me and discuss.  I will post my thoughts and interpretations, and welcome anyone else to do the same.  By rules of copyright, you can not quote anything from the book but you may tell us which chapter and passage you are referring to.

Please do not skip ahead!! And do not spoil further insights to be found later in reading. Keep all comments pertinent to what has already been discussed.

(much of chapter one is pretty self explanatory but I expect further chapters will require much more contemplation) 

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((Reading music, or you can listen to it before reading to settle the mind))

 

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Beginning to Wonder & Beyond the Self Mind
Chapter one: 1-15

1:1
A call to step into the 'realm' of not knowing.  It is a jumping point into the state of being. 

1:2
Mind and conceptions are a veil to our true nature.  

1:3-5
The monks live boring lives like us... But why do they seem more content? (maybe no nagging spouses or pressures of money making?  ?? Jk.) 

1:6
All humans 'suffer' from "discomforting uncertainty".  Except most of us accept bs answers for it instead of investigating into our own nature. (I despised the constant queasy uneasiness that comes with worrying, which was one of the catalysts that brought me to this forum and inner work.) 

1:7
Before we start waking up, we take our lives absolutely for granted. Lulled by believing that we know reality and how things are, we don't even have questions that need investigation. Yet there is always this inner struggle--whether we are aware of it or not-- that we are afraid that it's all a fallacy. 

1:8
Oops, cat's out of the bag...

1:9
The human mind craves certainty. It will literally make stuff up to satisfy that craving. 

1:10
As we grow, biases are made and they begin to dictate reality. Mostly right under our noses.

1:11
It's easier to see the faults of biases in other people than in ourselves, mostly because we live such a biased reality, it all just seems normal. (ain't that the truth....) 

1:12
To step outside of this biased reality takes much effort, but it's a worthy effort to see what's true.

1:13
Biased knowing can be useful, but not knowing is something inconceivable (can't have concepts in not-knowing), and can only be experienced, not explained. 

1:14-15
The author acknowledges the difficulties in bringing the reader out of biased reality, but takes on the challenge and compares it to climbing a steep mountain with switchback trails. One may see a view several times, but with increasingly higher vantage points. 
---------------
OK I will stop here for now. Please comment with your interpretations and thoughts. And stay tuned for the next selection of paragraphs. 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by seeking_brilliance

[seeking_brilliance]

((Reading music, or you can listen to it before reading to settle the mind))

 

Knowing and Not-knowing
Chapter One: 16-39

1:16
The famous geniuses of human history had one thing in common: they achieved the state of not-knowing. (This is the eureka state?)

1:17
Likely for survival, we are raised to compare knowing with not-knowing, whereas knowing is something good and not-knowing is bad or undesirable.
 

1:18
Even the term "think outside the box" implies thinking or knowing harder, not stepping outside the box in not-knowing

 

1:19
We all have insights, but without knowing how to tap into the insightful realm of not-knowing, we are subject to receiving insights at random if and when we get them.

 

1:20-22
we are culturally indoctrinated to believe that knowledge is power and not-knowing is weak.  (like the famous NBC meme "The more you know" )

1:23-24
We use the word "unique" to describe our individual personalities, when in truth there is nothing unique, just a cog in the cultural matrix. Roles have been developed over millenia, and we fall into them. In our biased reality, we cannot see that there's actually nothing unique about any of these roles--what's normal to us also feels unique,  and everyone else is  just different.

 

1:25-26
Believing is easier than not-knowing.  But our beliefs quell our need for serious inquiry.

1:27-29
Many geniuses and artists enter this state of not-knowing before creation, any may be unaware, or have a method of achieving this that is not considered any kind of spiritual practice. (I'm supposing this book intends to teach me to reach this on demand, or to become my nature.)

Edited August 18, 2020 by seeking_brilliance

[seeking_brilliance]

((Reading music, or you can listen to it before reading to settle the mind))

1:30
A distinction is made between being and self. Being is a natural existence, and self is like a cloak we put on through beliefs and 'knowledge'

 

1:31
To remove this cloak, we must not take on more threads with spiritual chanting or more knowledge; but do the opposite and literally take the thing off.

 

1:32-35
We have what we need to get a glimpse of being.  There can be resistance, much of which is cultural drama. The pull to find ourselves does lead to spiritual work, but still may not lead to the self-state of not-knowing/being.

 

1:36-39

From time to time we might have a flash of a more authentic self, but this passes. We fall right back into the matrix of beliefs and assumptions, perhaps because its just easier (which is ironic because it takes a lot more energy and processing power to be someone…)

 

1:40-41

Clearly the matrix of beliefs is veiling something purer and simpler.

Edited August 18, 2020 by seeking_brilliance

[seeking_brilliance]

((Reading music, or you can listen to it before reading to settle the mind))

 

2:1-6
Susan drew better when she was forced to see the object as is, instead of her assumptions and biases.  Her  instructor
wisely guided her to draw from not-knowing.

2:7-8
Not-knowing is not only necessary for creativity, but for contemplation as well.

2:9-10
As a kid, the author contemplated time and imagining the now. The realization he had is still only one I can intuit, but I kind of get it. When its always now, there can be no separation such as 'before' and 'after'.  Things appear to happen in sequence, but all at now. Before is an imaginative thought that shapes what I will imagine for after. But all is in now.

2:11
The author applied his contemplative nature to get better at things, just as martial arts.  I myself do the same to get better at my business trade, and how to reduce stress/suffering in the workplace.

Zen Influence
Chapter Two: 12-14

2:12-14
The author took up Zen and learned that it was a more formalized practice of his natural contemplation/investigation. He learned to let go of mind and knowing for the real big insights.

2:15
Beliefs are powerful and shape reality, but we mostly just trade one set of beliefs for another. Its like shuffling cards, and maybe you'll get a better hand. The author wants us to shed beliefs completely and perhaps there will be no hand at all.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by seeking_brilliance

[seeking_brilliance]

((Reading music, or you can listen to it before reading to settle the mind))

 

Relating Differently to Beliefs
Chapter two: 16-21

2:16-17
Trading unwanted beliefs for more positive ones can of course help navigate society and self confidence, but it does not go the distance of getting to our true authentic self. To do that, we must investigate what beliefs actually are.

2:18
(Interesting car analogy)

2:19
(I did spend many years blindly following beliefs, though like the author I have also always been a bit inquisitive and self analyzing.  Regardless, I remained a victim of beliefs and the ripples they create in reality. )

2:20
The author truly wants us to let go and open up. To drop beliefs and expectations. (I know firsthand how hard it is to drop expectations. Though everything seems to go better when I do.)

2:21
According to the author, giving up 'knowing things' can truly be life altering and feel much more authentic. The irony is that at some point I also need to give up knowing what the author said.

Edited August 18, 2020 by seeking_brilliance

[Zigzag Idiot]

@seeking_brilliance Great idea to have a book study group in a Journal. Hopefully someone will join in. Nonetheless your doing a good job. I'm reading this journal so that in a sense, I'm reading the book somewhat vicariously.

[seeking_brilliance]

@Zigzag Idiot Glad you are enjoying... you're welcome to chime in with any thoughts even if you don't have the book
 

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((Reading music, or you can listen to it before reading to settle the mind))

 

2:22
looking back in history, there was a time when (assumably) everyone thought the earth is flat. Now that we know better, we consider them to be pretty ignorant.  But we are too comfortable in our 'knowing', when actually none of us are astronauts and have seen it firsthand

2:23
Putting myself in one of the ancient's shoes, it is pretty understandable why they believed the world is flat. Even from the highest earthbound distance, you do not see the curve of the earth.

2:24-25
Even though we've come to know the earth is not flat, and that the sun does not rise and set but the Earth revolves around it,  we tend to even ignore that and live from the viewpoint that our ancestors held. We still say the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, instead of saying what we 'know better': that the earth has made one rotation on its axis in the course of what we call a "day". The sun doesn't move, relative to Earth (although we also now 'know' that the Earth is spinning at 25,000 mph, and that both bodies are hurtling through space at a speed relative to the rest of the galaxy) We take pride in our cultural arrogance of "the rising and setting of the sun"

2:26-27
The author implores us to imagine we are one of these ancient 'flat-earthers.' We are to imagine that we know the earth is flat, and everyone around us agrees, but we begin to question this. (Ok well, like I know the Earth is flat but I don't even know how big it is. Only the gods could really know the shape of the earth, and they aren't telling. It could be square for all I know!)

2:28
We are to practice this inquiry in modern times, knowing from firsthand experience and not what nasa and others tell or show us. This might bring a shift in awareness. (ok well I'm off to work so maybe I'll contemplate this and post my findings)

Edited August 18, 2020 by seeking_brilliance

[Vitamine Water]

I got to chapter 8 a few years ago before it literally got too overwhelming and I quit reading. There is something in this book that I know will fuck me up. So thanks for bringing it into the light again. 

[seeking_brilliance]

@Vitamine Water  Yeah, I figured this would be the only way I would finally read this book...... anyway, welcome and feel free to chime in when something speaks to you

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((Reading music, or you can listen to it before reading to settle the mind))

 

 

Empty Your Cup
Chapter Two: 29- 33

2:29
When performing an inquiry, it's important not to grasp too quickly for answers from the edge of our understanding.

 

2:30
In spiritual pursuits, the sage is one who willingly operates from a curious state of not-knowing. They may possess deep understanding, the actual truth of their understanding is based on "the 'nothing' that not-knowing provides". This is impossible to understand from a state of 'knowing' so such wisdom will always come across as some mysterious juju that only the sages possess.

 

2:31
Experiential investigation is important in this work. The point is to investigate what is true in your own self and life. Doing so will lead to a direct personal experience. ( I think my biggest issue with this is my direct experience is great I guess, but what does that amount to? My direct experience WOULD give a flat earth, but that doesn't make it correct. Yes, it would open creativity channels but its hard to let go and accept that direct experience is king.)

2:32-33
As we progress, we will start to make more distinction between what is true and what he hold as a belief. By advice of the author, "If you haven't had a firsthand encounter with whatever you say is true, then call it a belief."
 

[seeking_brilliance]

Empty Your Cup Exercise
Chapter Two:34-36

The idea is to list everything that you think you know, and investigate whether it is actually known or a belief. Its not meant to be done all at once but to become a living practice, so I will just list a few. I encourage any study group readers to list a few things as well. 
@Zigzag Idiot @Vitamine Water

 

1:  The sky is blue.  Ok, well is it? What we call blue is what I see nearly every day when I look at the sky, so this seems like an easy point for a known. Then again the sky is also black, at night; which according to science is the true 'color' of it, that whole blue thing is just an illusion. And black isn't even a color. And really there isn't even a sky, its all just an illusion of ozone barrier around the earth, which in turn turns the oceans blue, which in turn makes the planet look blue from space, deeming it the 'blue planet.'  And now my head hurts…. Final determination: belief.

2: Pizza hut sells pizza.  Well this seems pretty easy to answer. I've bought pizza hut many times over the years and they definitely sell pizza. Of course this all hinges on the beliefs that there is an entity called pizza hut and the food item they sale is called pizza- but for now I think this is an easy known. Final determination: known.

 3. I'm a white middle-aged male.  I mean… pretty much, yeah. I have experiences of all of those statements. The assumptions come in what is white(caucasion), what is middle-aged, what is a male, and what is this "I'm"?   Final determination: a known belief.  Ok fine, just belief.

4. I am more than the body. Ok this assumes theres a body and that I am also this body, but I can definitely say I'm more than that (If I am that). This is from direct experience exploring immaterial worlds. Final determination: known-ish (based on the probable belief that I am also the body)

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by seeking_brilliance

[seeking_brilliance]

 

We Are Culture
Chapter Three:1-14

3:1
 Everyone feels, on some deep, mostly hidden level, some anguish and angst about our fear of inauthenticity. We tend to ignore it, cover it up, or blame the feeling on something that has happened to us.

3:2
A way to cover it up is to adopt beliefs and knowledge. These contribute to a 'better' sense of self, but does nothing to the core condition. The more we adopt, the further from our source and inner peace we stray.

3:3-4
This apparently is all thanks to our culture. Culture is what controls  and constructs our frame of mind. This consensus type thinking may unite communities but is just a bunch of assumptions that is like building a house on sand. There is nothing sturdy there to set the framework. Cultural beliefs can make you feel temporarily better, and sometimes the opposite, but does nothing to really get to the core issue of inauthenticity.

3:5
'Cultured' originally meant a refined taste and appreciation of the arts. Somehow it began to describe a collective viewpoint of any group of people (no matter how big or small). It still holds the air of meaning that these collective viewpoints are refined; and they are, since cultural beliefs are a type of organic evolution.

3:6-7
Culture is an imaginary phenomenon, meaning it only exists in the minds of those people. It is not a real thing. It is completely imaginary, and yet defines every aspect of our lives: such as idea, actions, biases, methods, which way to look first when crossing the street, how to pet your dog, etc.  We are born into culture and I'm going to go out on a limb and say that to be an individual person, you can't separate from it. Culture is literally the person and the hive. The one and the many. Hmm…

3:8-9
Cultural programming is imaginary, yet is as natural to us as the air we breathe. The author mentions gender stereotypes for example. These cultural assumptions are constantly reinforced and become synonymous with 'truth'.

3:10
Culture is necessary for structured communities to thrive,( but unfortunately it was not programmed into culture to realize that its all a fallacy.)  The important questions we ask here on Actualized.org, like "who am I? why am I here?" are important  to cultures, but they are answered with cultural answers, causing formation of dogmatic and sometimes deadly religions.

3:11
The human mind craves knowledge so much, it will literally just start making shit up to satisfy. And we eat it like candy. This is a universal trait, so all around the world this is found in every culture.

3:12-13
Its painful to question our beliefs, be they deep, great, or small. Naturally, we just brush the idea that they are just beliefs under the rug and live in the imaginary reality we're creating.  We may even know in the back of our minds that this and that is just a belief, but we still operate from a mode of "its truth". This is source of much unnecessary suffering.

3:14
There are two categories of cultural assumptions which we will focus on for now:
1. how we view not-knowing-- as ignorance and adopting beliefs in lieu of experiencing truth.
2.  assumptions regarding 'self', which result in adopting and preserving the false conceptual self.

Edited August 20, 2020 by seeking_brilliance

[Zigzag Idiot]

To All who read this- Don't let me get away with spewing imagination and bullshit. Please call me out also if I've approached any of this in a wrong or skewed way. That's very possible. I do stuff like that.

 

The statement- "Living on Earth may be expensive but it includes an annual free trip around the sun".

The first part is definitely a belief because expensive is a subjective and relative term. I guess the second part is a belief also because I'm using others study of this part of physical existence. If I got a telescope and studied observable astronomy then it might become a known. As long as I'm using others data, I think it has to stay in the category of belief.

 

I'm going to die in a few years. I know that because I've observed human beings growing older and then dying, most of my life. Well, I know my body is going to die. I'm sure of that. My body has slowly deteriorated with age. I've observed this trajectory in other living creatures and also in myself up till this point in my existence on this planet. I don't know what my experience will be when my body dies though. So anything about my experience of awareness after the death of the body can only be framed as belief,,,, I think.

 

Mind is separate from being. I BELIEVE the majority of humans are not able to distinguish the difference here but I KNOW it's possible through following the Inquiry process. Through the felt sense of the present moment, it can become ontological and known. It's paradoxical though in that the mind can overwhelm being at times and through imagination and self deception the experience can suddenly become all beliefs. So I don't know how it will go tomorrow but I also know it's possible to for this to be distinguished in the felt presence of experience.

 

on·tol·o·gy

/änˈtäləjē/

noun

1. 

the branch of metaphysics dealing with the nature of being.

2. 

a set of concepts and categories in a subject area or domain that shows their properties and the relations between them.

"what's new about our ontology is that it is created automatically from large datasets"

 

 

e·pis·te·mol·o·gy

/əˌpistəˈmäləjē/

noun

PHILOSOPHY

the theory of knowledge, especially with regard to its methods, validity, and scope. Epistemology is the investigation of what distinguishes justified belief from opinion.

 

I heard Alan Watts say this one time-

“There was a young man who said though, it seems that I know that I know, but what I would like to see is the I that knows me when I know that I know that I know.”

 

 

[seeking_brilliance]

@Zigzag Idiot awesome, thanks for sharing!
I think, at least in my case, that when I say "I am going to die" I really mean that the body will cease to function and wither. I really don't know what I'll do. Whoever that is.  (me) 

BUT!!! its still a belief, because even though we've observed it with other bodies, we have not actually observed it with the body in question. We are just making an (educated) assumption. 

Edited August 20, 2020 by seeking_brilliance

[Zigzag Idiot]

11 minutes ago, seeking_brilliance said:

I really don't know what I'll do. Whoever that is.  (me)

Me too also,,, ? whoever I am and what it is I'll do,,,?

Regarding chapter 3, A quote from Ocke de Boer delivers a perspective given in the Fourth Way regarding Acquired Conscience vs. Awakened Conscience as seemingly very relative food for thought with what was given in chapter 3.

Ocke: These religions almost always fall into the hands of people with a lower level of being, often possessed of intolerance and a need for convention. These religions soon become dogmatic, and therefore increase subjective, or acquired, conscience.   Acquired conscience has been well described by Nicoll in his Commentaries. It is a subjective conscience based on collusions (collective illusions). It is also well described at the end of the chapter Bogachevsky in Meetings With Remarkable Men.   Bogachevsky often urged me not to adopt any conventions, either those of my immediate circle or those of any other people. He said; From the conventions with which one is stuffed subjective morality is formed, but for real life objective morality is needed, which comes only from Conscience.   And in general I repeat, acts of this kind occur simply because people stuff their children, while the future men is still being formed in them, with all sorts of conventions, and so prevent Nature herself from developing in them that conscience which has taken form over thousands of years of struggle by our ancestors against just such conventions.  

Ocke: One of the aims of our Work is to bring us in contact with Conscience, which is in our subconsciousness. Conscience is the inner memory for those actions necessary to bring any given situation back in tune with Unity. Although this definition of Conscience is correct, it stays incomplete, because Conscience cannot be reasoned but must come into Being.   

Taken from- http://www.higherbeingbodies.com/a-dialogue-with-ocke.html

[seeking_brilliance]

((Reading music, or you can listen to it before reading to settle the mind))

 

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Not-knowing in our culture
Chapter Three: 15-23

3:15-16
As a cultural assumption that goes largely unquestioned, is that ignorance or not-knowing is bad. We build biases around this idea and shame those for being ignorant. When we notice it in ourselves, we are ashamed and get upset.

3:17
Not-knowing cannot be prevented. It exists around us already non-stop. The trick is to change our relationship with it.

3:18
Not-knowing is not a concept. (the word is a concept to describe something indescribable. It is itself, a primary being.  It is prior to knowing. In culture, we avoid not-knowing like a plague. It’s a built in function of the evolution of culture and society. We come across it countless times but ignore it and chose to give the dramatic attention to the knowing counterpart.

3:19
The author isn't denouncing "knowing", but is saying that not-knowing is the source of creativity and knowledge. It is the "ever-present aspect of being. " It can appear in different forms, just as having nothing, ignorance, or a disconnect from the universe. (whereas knowing would be connecting). We consider not-knowing a defect, but it is not.

3:20
We are asked to consider not-knowing as a state, and not an absence of something. Its an empty state of being. Harmless, and beneficial, like being calm.  (I personally like to call it openness, as in being open to input.)

3:21
In the state of not-knowing, we instantly bypass all the cultural mumbo jumbo that's been controlling every aspect of our lives, as well as and also any other 'knowing' we may have had. It is here we finally find our true, authentic self, unformed and open. The author refers to it as the real-self.

3:22-23
Trying to know just leads to too much spinning wheels and suffering. Our negative relationship with not-knowing just adds fuel to the fire. As we begin to question our assumptions in daily practice, it becomes clear that we have been taking these assumptions as reality. When we identify an assumption we should open up to not-knowing and "seek out a  more genuine experience."

[seeking_brilliance]

((Reading music, or you can listen to it before reading to settle the mind))

The Self in Our Culture
Chapter Three: 24-27

 

3:24
Since the beginning of culture, we've tried to answer the question of "what is self?"  But being a culture based on knowledge, this is unanswerable through knowledge so we just make stuff up.

3:25-26
We keep looking at 'being' as related to 'knowing'. As if our being can somehow be known, if we just try hard enough.  The idea that we simply can't know being, and it must be experienced instead, does not sit well with culture.  Religions attempt to find the meaning of life  but are still wrongly based on trying to know.

3:27
The most we get out of knowing is the ability to live a conceptual life. It is not truly satisfying (although it definitely goes through the range of emotions and thrills of drama.)

[seeking_brilliance]

 

 

 

The Cost of Our Assumptions
Chapter Three: 28-30

 

3:28
Two main cultural assumptions arise and play off each other, our assumptions of not-knowing (that it's bad) and our view of self (we realize we don't know what self is, but then think that's bad.) So doing what any good little cultural not-knower, we make shit up and are left with a conceptual self that is taken as true and real.  Just these two interplaying tandems are so powerful we are not even close to an experience of real being.

 

3:29
The author has boiled down five main effects of this interplay, effects that arise as perceived negative conditions :  Emptiness, Self-doubt, feeling trapped, suffering, and struggling.

 

3:30
Everyone experiences these conditions at various degrees and predispositions, but basically all five can be found in operation amongst anyone.

 

Emptiness
Chapter Three: 31-32

 

3:31
(Growing up, I was taught that people who didn't find god were roaming around with this emptiness in their heart, a void that could only be successfully filled with God's love. The 'sinners' would try anything to fill it: work, drugs, sex, gambling, etc. ) Here the author states that this is a basic condition of all cultural individuals: with physical effects such as a rift in the heart, a void in the pit of your stomach, or a hole or incompleteness in the very core of your being.

 

3:32
This is accompanied with the sense that you are alone, even in a crowd. (In other words, you don't feel like anyone understands you and you are so cut off from everyone else they can never help you and they might as well not exist)

 

Self Doubt
Chapter Three: 33-34

 

3:33
This is referring to a deeper self doubt than just not believing in your art or work, this is at the core a complete feeling of inauthenticity. That the big answers  are out there and you are left out of the loop.

 

3:34
So to find ourselves, we tend to try and improve our self image.  This is just adding more shit to the dung pile of BS, while our true authentic self is getting buried deeper and deeper.

[seeking_brilliance]

 

Feeling Trapped, Suffering, and Struggling
Chapter Three:35-39

3:35-36
A common 'disorder' within all cultures is the feeling of being trapped. This manifests in many ways. (In a very physical sense, I can think of the time-old story of growing up in a place and dying there. Not exploring something beyond. Feeling trapped in a town, school, job, etc. Sure I've dealt with this a lot, still do. Luckily I also manifest contentedness and love.)

3:37
This is talking about (even after seeing suffering for what it is ) we choose to feel and endure it. We choose by not confessing its true. Nearly all forms of emotional suffering is due to cultural assumptions. This book should remedy this, but I expect its still important to confess to our intentional victimization.

'Between grief and nothing, I will take grief'
--William Faulkner

 

3:38-39
( I was thinking about this earlier. Humans struggle non-stop. Even when there's time of peace, something is going on even subtly in the background. There's really not true peace as long as one is the cultural matrix.)
Struggling emerges from the constant back and forth of mental suffering and replacing that with positives. ( Its funny…positives, negatives, revolving, like thought is some kind of battery? an imaginary battery that fuels an imaginary self….in imagination lol)

Your Own Experiences of These Consenquences
Chapter Three:40-47

Exercise:

Emptiness

Read book for questions:

A: When I run into feelings of Emptiness, I tend to call it an incompleteness. I don't feel whole. I'm fucked up and missing out on perfection. I feel alone, misunderstood, and scared of isolation. I don't feel real. I want to be real and validated.

I deal with them by lashing out. Backsliding. Unconscious eating.  Escapism. Filling the void in my being. Covering up. Denial. (That being said, I do look a lot of it straight in the face. Marijuana helps with that.)

These feelings can encompass the whole chest area and upper stomach, and extending up to the throat, with a tightening feeling, but also a sense of breaking apart or crumbling. A dramatic feeling of dying. 

I've isolated the feeling of incompleteness. It is not always there, but tends to arise in tangent with self-doubt. Not seeing that I am all and enough. Not content with truth. When I face this, I tend to decide to work on such a thing 'later' and then go and smoke pot to enjoy my next hour. (sad but true… or is it only culturally sad wink wink)

The feeling would have been absent before whatever caused it because I definitely do not feel this always, or at least its not constantly in awareness.

 

Keeping busy fills it. I literally won't sit still, probably because of it. Pot makes keeping busy more fun. Yes I see what I'm saying here.

 

What is at the core of the feeling of emptiness?  I don't feel real. I want to be real and validated. I want to exist and matter.  And be remembered.

Edited August 24, 2020 by seeking_brilliance

[Zigzag Idiot]

Great notes and also self observations, @seeking_brilliance .

The term 'deficient emptiness' is one that I find useful which encapsulates the core of a variety of negative states of consciousness and the practice is to develop the capacity to sit with it. Sitting with it then allows space for transformations to occur.

On the subject of suffering is a quote from the Fourth Way work. I find it very sustinct and to the point distinguishing unnecessary suffering and intentional (conscious) suffering.

The first is Unnecessary Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that we incur because of our unreasonable attitudes and expectations towards others, from our ill-will, hatred and rejection of others, from doubt, possessiveness, arrogance and self pity. In other words, suffering arising from our self-importance.

The second is Unavoidable Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that comes to us by accident or from events beyond our control, such as interpersonal conflicts, war, disaster, disease or death.

Third, we have Voluntary Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that we take upon ourselves in order to accomplish a personal aim, such as an athlete who disciplines himself to win a race, or a student who labours to get good grades.

And finally we have Intentional Suffering. According to Bennett, this would be the kind of suffering that we take upon ourselves in order to accomplish an impersonal or altruistic goal, one that is directed more towards service to others or to the Work, and not for any personal gain. 

 

I too, have used cannabis for dissociating from the world. If one is half aware that that is what's going on, though, it looses its effectiveness and although not immediately, integration to some degree will occur. I'm just saying this seems to be the case in my own life.

IME, A great hardcore practice for dealing with suffering is ruthlessly observing ones own schadenfreude. It's culturally acceptable to wish ill on the bad guys in the movies but when these kinds of thoughts arise in association with family and friends, it's another story. If not observed and sorted out and dealt with, these kinds of thoughts can hurl one into a psychic entropy. I can give myself some space and declare yes, a reactive part of me is saying this but in my heart of hearts, this is not me and I say NO to this negative little sub personality. After engaging in this kind of Inquiry, I even begin to have empathy towards people who are chronically negative in some way, realizing that they're caught up in suffering and being propelled automatically in reactive behavior. In a sense, they're caught up in their own Hell.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude

[seeking_brilliance]

@Zigzag Idiot Wow schadenfreude... Of course I am familiar with this but never knew there was a word for it (culturally speaking). 

Yes I remember as a kid I would feel joy when kids cry and throw tantrums, and also when they get punished. Of course now it's just annoying lol. I never knew why I felt that way and maybe some suffering arose due to feeling bad about feeling that way... 

As an adult, I feel this way when people get in trouble for doing something wrong, like speeding, running red-light, are jerks about wearing masks in current situation, are Karen's and get shut down, etc. 

Edited August 24, 2020 by seeking_brilliance