Still Very Confused On This Morality Thing

[Orange]

Hey peeps. Ive taken some time to think about morality and as a result I'm procrastinating so much on my work because I don't know what I should do with my life...I have a thesis due in in less than a week and haven't started writing much of the 20000 fucking words.  I want to give a message with this paper, a message for respect of every living being but I don't really believe in that message anymore. Because when I look at the replies on morality many replies say: "you just have to be the real you, the you without morals blablabla" 

OK so what if the real you is someone who is sadistic and wants to torture other beings for their pleasure? What if that is the life force in them? It is reality so it is as it should be. 

I guess my question is: who am I to say any message about respect if the life force within other people is non respect? And because that is their life force, it is reality and so it is right. So is my work vain? Is it worth putting the energy in it if I don't even know that it is the right thing to do because others disaprove of the message of respect and because respect is not their life force? 

I know some other posts I wrote are a bit similar to this but Im still very confused and have no direction in my life right now..

Edited July 25, 2016 by Orange

[Ayla]

From my own perspective, I can give you some insights, just chose whatever resonates with you. 

Morality - is a mind construct. There's no such thing. Also, what you perceive as "others" is not there either. 

What you might mean is the human "pull" or drive to respect and love other beings. That, is inherent in ANY human being. It has been extensively studied, and one of the results for example is that, without exception, a human being's FIRST reaction to another's pain, is to help. Mind often comes immediately after and "rationalizes" the non-help. First category is called "heroes" - they just didn't listen to their minds telling them they shouldn't or couldn't do the act of helping. 

Aggressiveness is not a life force, it is a form of acute lack of awareness and giving into mind constructs of past/future.

That being said, these are just both faces of ourselves: the "I" ( the one we perceive ourselves to be ) and the "non-I" (the shadow, or the aspects of ourselves that we perceive SO bad, that they have been pushed into the unconsciousness). As long as both are not integrated and loved, as long as there isn't acceptance for both, our inner demons will keep appearing in the outer world. 

Awareness is the first step. Compassion is the next. Love is the ultimate. 

Hope that helps a bit  

[Orange]

53 minutes ago, Ayla said:

 

Hey Ayla,  thanks for the reply, I like it because it appeals to my values and I like to believe that human is inherently good but reality is not that way so I have a few comments:

 

What you might mean is the human "pull" or drive to respect and love other beings. That, is inherent in ANY human being. It has been extensively studied, and one of the results for example is that, without exception, a human being's FIRST reaction to another's pain, is to help. 

What about psychopaths? They don't have the biological capacity to feel empathy and therefore help anyone

Helping is not their life force, it doesn't produce a reward loop in their brain

53 minutes ago, Ayla said:

Aggressiveness is not a life force, it is a form of acute lack of awareness and giving into mind constructs of past/future.

Why not though? I'm playing devils advocate but why is cruelty and evil not a life force? Being self aware and evil are not exclusive to each other.  I also don't understand what the past and future come to do here. 

53 minutes ago, Ayla said:

That being said, these are just both faces of ourselves: the "I" ( the one we perceive ourselves to be ) and the "non-I" (the shadow, or the aspects of ourselves that we perceive SO bad, that they have been pushed into the unconsciousness). As long as both are not integrated and loved, as long as there isn't acceptance for both, our inner demons will keep appearing in the outer world. 

But for some people the demons are their angels, some people are proud to have those demons for eg. One guy on the Internet was proud to start making a business out of child pornography/abuse and had the ambition to build an empire out of it. 

So I don't know what are demons anyway because everything we have in ourselves is just there and what mainstream society considers demons is for others not demons at all. It's a label. Why are their demons wrong after all? Their brain has reward when they torture a child/animal/person because their brain is built that way. Fortunately or unfortunately (for them) they live in a society that doesn't really like this behavior from them, and if I had a brain wired differently I could be that evil person as well. And I wouldn't understand why I end up locked up if all I'm doing is being true to myself and letting the life force live through me and my actions. .

But I was born with a brain who gets the reward from respect and empathy but I didn't chose this. So again, what is my right to go out and defend those who cannot defend themselves if by doing so, I take away a psychopath's pleasure and ability to live true to their nature?

Well I hope it is clear to understand, I'm trying to get you in my thread of thoughts

[Pelin]

1 hour ago, Ayla said:

 

Awareness is the first step. Compassion is the next. Love is the ultimate. 

 

You put it so simply. I loved this sentence.

[Ayla]

23 minutes ago, Orange said:

What about psychopaths? They don't have the biological capacity to feel empathy and therefore help anyone

Helping is not their life force, it doesn't produce a reward loop in their brain

Sure, but can you find within YOURSELF an instance where you behave like one? We're not here to analyze dis-ease, but to find a solution, right? I know it is HARD to think of it that way. To understand, I'll give you an example. I recently watched the movie "Earthlings" - have you seen it? I REALLY had to sit down and look deeply within myself for all that cruelty and that lack of humanity. I did find it, buried in family lineage and past stories, at my own small level, but the energy was there in need of healing. 

 

2 hours ago, Orange said:

Why not though? I'm playing devils advocate but why is cruelty and evil not a life force? Being self aware and evil are not exclusive to each other.  I also don't understand what the past and future come to do here. 

Quote

If you are totally present in the now, and do not have any judgement about what happened in the past and do not project any future desires, can you find something wrong with your experience? RIGHT NOW? Take a honest look. 

For all your other questions, I only have ONE answer. It is not important that you figure out the outer world. You figure  yourself out. Find out what is inside of you. Nothing is as important. All else are just reflections of humanity's unintegrated shadow. 

2 hours ago, Orange said:

Well I hope it is clear to understand, I'm trying to get you in my thread of thoughts

I was there myself at one point. Then I understood that thoughts are just yet another construct of billions of external factors that has nothing to do with me. 

 

[Emerald]

4 hours ago, Ayla said:

From my own perspective, I can give you some insights, just chose whatever resonates with you. 

Morality - is a mind construct. There's no such thing. Also, what you perceive as "others" is not there either. 

What you might mean is the human "pull" or drive to respect and love other beings. That, is inherent in ANY human being. It has been extensively studied, and one of the results for example is that, without exception, a human being's FIRST reaction to another's pain, is to help. Mind often comes immediately after and "rationalize" the non-help. First category is called "heroes" - they just didn't listen to their minds telling them they shouldn't or couldn't do the act of helping. 

Aggressiveness is not a life force, it is a form of acute lack of awareness and giving into mind constructs of past/future.

That being said, these are just both faces of ourselves: the "I" ( the one we perceive ourselves to be ) and the "non-I" (the shadow, or the aspects of ourselves that we perceive SO bad, that they have been pushed into the unconsciousness). As long as both are not integrated and loved, as long as there isn't acceptance for both, our inner demons will keep appearing in the outer world. 

Awareness is the first step. Compassion is the next. Love is the ultimate. 

Hope that helps a bit  

I really like you. I had the urge to express this for some reason.  

[Ayla]

@Emerald Wilkins   

Hehe.. Thanks. You too 

[Orange]

15 hours ago, Ayla said:

Sure, but can you find within YOURSELF an instance where you behave like one? We're not here to analyze dis-ease, but to find a solution, right? I know it is HARD to think of it that way. To understand, I'll give you an example. I recently watched the movie "Earthlings" - have you seen it? I REALLY had to sit down and look deeply within myself for all that cruelty and that lack of humanity. I did find it, buried in family lineage and past stories, at my own small level, but the energy was there in need of healing.

Yes I have behaved like one before. But is it disease really? Because the majority of people is not psychopathic it's a disease to be that way? Who says so? It's an arbitrary jugement no? Why does everyone need to be empathetic to be a healthy human? Again, I think I have lost all my values so I don't know what to think anymore, I've always been told as a child that killing is bad etc but that's only bad from a majority of people's perspective but it's still an arbitrary jugement. If I lived in a psychopathic society where they would be in the majority maybe they would say that killing and torturing is good and should be rewarded because it is fun. Who is right? 

And yes I watched earthlings. And I'm trying to understand your example, so I hope I'm not interpreting it wrong but what you mean is: we are conditioned in a certain way (by family, society) to accept that certain forms of cruelty are 'normal'? And so they must be removed out of the context of 'family and society stories' in order to heal them? In other words; reject those false stories we were fed with and find another story that will not 'normalise' cruelty anymore? 

Eg. 1) Society/family story: the meat industry kills the cows and that's how it should be because we need to eat hamburgers >> this story normalises killing in the slaughterhouses 

2) Story that does not normalise cruelty anymore: the meat industry kills the cows and as I have seen in earthlings and other videos the cows are dying in intense pain and its contributing to global warming

 

Healing occurs when you have recognised that the story 1) is the story that is keeping you in the 'I am contributing to cruelty' seat without feeling guilty because family and society tell you that this is normal and how things are. 

And then you heal because you replace it with story 2) ? The story that is not influenced by family/society/culture, the story that recognises that there is indeed cruelty and no humanity in the current meat industry, circus industry etc. 

Or maybe I interpreted everything wrong but that's how I understood your sentences when you wrote them..

 

15 hours ago, Ayla said:

If you are totally present in the now, and do not have any judgement about what happened in the past and do not project any future desires, can you find something wrong with your experience? RIGHT NOW? Take a honest look. 

OK,  I don't understand what you want to make me understand here...that in the present, whatever you do, nothing is wrong? Even is its raping a child? 

15 hours ago, Ayla said:

For all your other questions, I only have ONE answer. It is not important that you figure out the outer world. You figure  yourself out. Find out what is inside of you. Nothing is as important. All else are just reflections of humanity's unintegrated shadow. 

Yes I'm trying to, meditation is one way but is there anything else you recommend? 

 

Ayla maybe I'm nagging you with all these questions (still open to anyone else btw) and you might get bored of it which I'd understand too, but, I guess if you don't want to reply you won't do it and it's cool. 

I'm just a lost soul testing my luck trying to find my way again..

[Ayla]

@Orange , what I mean, is the need to drop ALL stories: 1, 2, 2, 17...all of them. 

Oneness is not just a cute principle out there. It is LITERAL truth. "You" reading "my" words here now, is just an illusion you believe through programming and repetition of a false assumption. This is also the case with what you believe to be "time". 

Now if you sit down and drop all concepts of "outside of me" and "now/then". can you find something WRONG? Can you find any psychopaths? Any murderers? Cause if you can, they are also YOU (me). Your energy and attention and focus "feeds" that energy as if your brain would prepare it. So my invitation was to find out inside of the body-mind that you perceive yourself to be,  where exactly the energy of a psychopath is lurking. Cause it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to be manifested "out there" and it not to be "in here". 

Think about it like this: there's a baby in the room and you are in charge of taking care of it. The only way  for you to do this, is to watch a screen where the baby is filmed 24/24 from all angles. When you see something on that screen (what you perceive as the outer world), it is ONLY because the baby is doing that thing (inner world). 

So, the question you should ask yourself is not if something is "bad" but if you can find it and heal it inside of yourself. 

Here is how I currently see things in terms of good/bad etc: 

• in order for the reality to remain grounded and stable, we need some SOLID NO's - which are like walls that box us in ( NO to kill, NO to rape, etc)
• MAYBE YES and MAYBE NO - are like doorways: I might say no to something that SERVES MY SPIRITUAL GROWTH FOR NOW, which I would not keep as a SOLID NO for the rest of my life ( doing a 9 to 5 job for example ) 
• The YES is like an open window, like the acceptance and willingness for all there is, as it is, right now. YES to every opportunity that point out inside of me where the crime comes from, where the violence comes from, the hunger, the abuse.... everything.

Here's some videos that might assist further :

https://youtu.be/rIi4ijet_FE

https://youtu.be/DS3cEW0c3og

 

[Orange]

Thanks Ayla for the reply,  sorry I'm trying hard to understand, but I'm not on the same level of understanding as you are I suppose so I still have a question

1 hour ago, Ayla said:

 

Oneness is not just a cute principle out there. It is LITERAL truth. "You" reading "my" words here now, is just an illusion you believe through programming and repetition of a false assumption. This is also the case with what you believe to be "time". 

Now if you sit down and drop all concepts of "outside of me" and "now/then". can you find something WRONG? Can you find any psychopaths? Any murderers? Cause if you can, they are also YOU (me). Your energy and attention and focus "feeds" that energy as if your brain would prepare it. So my invitation was to find out inside of the body-mind that you perceive yourself to be,  where exactly the energy of a psychopath is lurking. Cause it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to be manifested "out there" and it not to be "in here". 

Why is it impossible? It is out there because I got interested in that subject and started researching. Does it mean that everyone who researches this has a psychopath energy inside?  

I'll check the video out , thanks

[Ayla]

1 minute ago, Orange said:

Why is it impossible? It is out there because I got interested in that subject and started researching. Does it mean that everyone who researches this has a psychopath energy inside?  

 

No. It exists in "ALL" of us as long as it is "OUT THERE" - again, in reality, there isn't any "all" and any "out there" in reality. 

What I would say though, is that you noticing it, it might indicate that that's something inside of your mental construct that needs healing. Depending on it's importance (gravity), you will see it on the screen (outside) more and more pronounced. In your country, in your state, in your town, in your neighborhood, in your house, in your own experience - and then you will be FORCED to heal it somehow. The sooner you get the message, it will manifest further and further and your attention will not go there anymore. 

[Mal]

Orange, stop listening to this nonsense. Remember what Charlie said abou people being unqualified to help you while they themselves are still wounded. Be warned

[Mal]

Someone on here got depersonalisation disorder watching Leo's videos. That is is disorder the person now has to live with for the rest of their lives

[Mal]

You may even have a healthy outlook. If you do this shadow work whos to say you won't create a perpetrator introject? 

Visit a psychologist for this type of thing, 

[Orange]

1 hour ago, Mal said:

Someone on here got depersonalisation disorder watching Leo's videos. That is is disorder the person now has to live with for the rest of their lives

'Someone' you mean me? 

[Mal]

On 7/26/2016 at 9:17 PM, Orange said:

'Someone' you mean me? 

Not you. See, you're already getting paranoid listening to this garbage.

Don't just accept all energies that are in your personal space. These are very dangerous concepts to play with, and believe me not one person on this forum is qualified to share. They are not conscious, if they were they would realise the can of worms they are opening. "Fools rush in" etc.

Stay away from them for your own sake.

[Mal]

These people are showing off their knowledge. Even people who are enlightened would not give you such detailed intellectual knowledge. It goes against enlightenment

[Mal]

Do you mind disclosing how old you are?

[Mal]

1 hour ago, Piotr said:

@Orange Hey Orange,

I would stick to your own perspective to it at the moment. There is no point in trying to convince yourself to 'no-morality' 'construct' which comes to those only who effortlessly operate from transcendental state of being (nearly no one). You might consider the ideas that Ayla is presenting, but don't accept them as dogmas as this is equivalent to almost torturing yourself.

If you want to have a boost of well-written transcendental logic go read one of Dalai Lama's books, they are usually cheap and you might not feel as you're forcing yourself to anything after reading them.

Do you not think picking any tom dick and harry on here and diagnosing them with a YouTube Mooji selection is not dogmatic in itself?

Everyone is different and needs different interventions. 

 

[Mal]

@Piotr What I bring is I've realised that this website is a hive for showing off knowledge people are not qualified to show off.

That's as much as I know, that this site is bollocks. I don't expect you to be conscious of that, but it's a fact.

These ideas never helped anybody, talking about enlightenemnt doesn't help because as soon as you conceptualise it you are on here complaining that you can get the state back. 

That's because you made it a thing to speak of, and you lose energy. It's not a concept, the best thing anyone can do is stay present and not talk about it. 

Even I know that.

Anyway Peter, I don't even read your posts so I can't return the passive aggressive compliment.

I advise anybody here looking for progress to drop all ideas and stay present. It's that simple. 

Take care and all the best