What Is The Purpose Of Having Ideologies?

[Flicker_boy]

Ideologies/belief systems are costly things to mantain. They require you to lie about reality, engage in discussions, ignore things, take inappropriate action, etc, etc to be mantaneid. What's the benefit here? Why do we do this? For us to accept all this costs there must be some (big) benefit to mantaining them, at least a perceived or ilusory one. Any perspective on the matter is appreciated.

[charlie2dogs]

19 minutes ago, Lorenzo Engel said:

Ideologies/belief systems are costly things to mantain. They require you to lie about reality, engage in discussions, ignore things, take inappropriate action, etc, etc to be mantaneid. What's the benefit here? Why do we do this? For us to accept all this costs there must be some (big) benefit to mantaining them, at least a perceived or ilusory one. Any perspective on the matter is appreciated.

once enslaved by the belief system, takes a long long long time to get rid of it,  if ever

[Pelin]

The illusory one is I guess conformity. Just today I was talking to my sister on this. She wants to pursue some voluntary work, but nearly all non-profit organizations follow a political ideology. And joining that organization (in)directly means you support their ideology. The politics are so messed up in my country right now that even if you just want to have a friendly conversation with, let's say family or coworkers, you have to choose between the nationalist or religious conservative ideology. The (big) benefit when you choose one is that you will at least be a part of a community (of lies and you'll have your share of the war between ideologies as a bonus).

[Flicker_boy]

@Pelin nice one

 

[J. M. Wigglesworth]

People generally want to understand the world to a certain degree of comfort. An Idealogy is a psycholgical framework which allows them to feel understanding, to making sense of the world in respect to their psychological development and ability to tolerate nuance and paradox. There is also plenty to be said about using it to manipulate people and ensure that the 'dumb ones' don't do stupid shit. It has some uses but obviously its use is as a crutch. Nothing wrong with being psychologically/spirtually crippled- lots of people I know and like are- but if you're on this forum you probably don't want to be one of them.

Also, check out this vid for an interesting take on belief systems. Rsd Tyler also has some good videos on the power of social condition which may intrigue you.

 

[charlie2dogs]

6 hours ago, Lorenzo Engel said:

Ideologies/belief systems are costly things to mantain. They require you to lie about reality, engage in discussions, ignore things, take inappropriate action, etc, etc to be mantaneid. What's the benefit here? Why do we do this? For us to accept all this costs there must be some (big) benefit to mantaining them, at least a perceived or ilusory one. Any perspective on the matter is appreciated.

ideologies and false belief systems belong to the human identity, thats all it can do

[Kacper Wielunski]

@J. M. Wigglesworth

Very interesting opinion i definitely will check out this vid thanks for sharing it friend. Also isnt this growth mindset and actualization also a little bit like a ideology ? 

[J. M. Wigglesworth]

11 hours ago, Kacper Wielunski said:

@J. M. Wigglesworth

Isnt this growth mindset and actualization also a little bit like a ideology ? 

Yes, this must eventually be discarded/lessened as well. For instance, our overlord Leo mentioned that he was planning on becoming a lot more yogi/hermit-like. Even Mr. Actualized himself is starting to move past it. Yet still, he supports the self-actualization platform by maintaining and responding on the forums, releasing new vids and coaching.

Here's the reason: Self-actualization is a structurally superior crutch compared to the the vast majority of crutches out there. Provided you don't fall into the various 'traps' in it, self-actualization can evolve you to the point where you don't need it or at least pretty damn close. Back to the metaphor of the cripple, would you rather be disabled and do nothing, use a crutch the rest of your life as a shadow of what you could really do or slowly build up your strength and reach your true self even if it requires a lot of exercises and supports? Self-actualization is most closely the last one.

[Kacper Wielunski]

@J. M. Wigglesworth

You are right my friend! Still i think that mixing self actualization and meditation allows for better understanding on wider scale and thus allows you to help on bigger scale just as leo does. Overalli belive that working on your body mind and all meditation work are the best recipe for becoming your best self. 

[MikeS]

Ideologies are easy. Let someone else tell you what to belief in. That way people don't have to think for themselves. It gives them an identity without any effort or introspection.

[Leo Gura]

Imagine for a minute the depth of what you're really asking.

Imagine you have no ideology what so ever. That means you have no beliefs what so ever.

Here are just a few things this means:

• The past doesn't exist and never happened
• The future doesn't exist and will never happen
• You have zero justification for anything you do
• You cannot speak and make any definitive claims or rationalizations
• Nothing has meaning whatsoever
• You are not a human being or even on object
• Others do not exist
• You have no personal history or life story
• You were never born
• You cannot be motivated towards or away from anything
• You do not know who or what you are
• You have no idea what life is and what you're doing here
• You have no idea what will happen next
• Science, history, metaphysics, medicine, technology do not exist
• You have no laws, no morality, no governments
• The universe does not exist

Your entire notion of life & self is completely crippled to the point where you are unable to physically function.

So now you can start to appreciate why people kill over ideology.

On the plus side, you'd have truth

Who's down for truth?

No? No takers?

[Dragallur]

On 7/28/2016 at 10:18 AM, Leo Gura said:

• The past doesn't exist and never happened
• The future doesn't exist and will never happen
• You have zero justification for anything you do
• You cannot speak and make any definitive claims or rationalizations
• Nothing has meaning whatsoever
• You are not a human being or even on object
• Others do not exist
• You have no personal history or life story
• You were never born
• You cannot be motivated towards or away from anything
• You do not know who or what you are
• You have no idea what life is and what you're doing here
• You have no idea what will happen next
• Science, history, metaphysics, medicine, technology do not exist
• You have no laws, no morality, no governments
• The universe does not exist

So is this the reason why people often cry and have depression when they do hard core self-inquiry and enlightenment stuff?

[Spiral]

Without: 

Ideologies:

• Materialism (this guy is the real villain)
• Authoritarian/Totalitarianism
• Nationalism/Patriotism (And yes i know there not the same)
• Racism

Character traits:

• Fanatics
• Xenophobia/homophobia......
• Greed/Power hunger
• Mental illness: paranoia, sadistic and so on

Religion in some cases

Why could we ever justify/want war, suffering?

Missed anything?

Edited August 23, 2016 by Spiral