Does Leo way self actualization is feminine

[Javfly33]

You need to transcend that red/blue stage if you want to get anything interesting done with your life in this life time buddy.

The definition of strength and weaknesses changes depending on your perspective and values about life.

There's really nothing accurate about strength or weaknesses apart from what gets you closer to the truth on how reality works or puts your deep into the hole into delusion.

[Moreira]

On 5/11/2019 at 5:39 AM, Leo Gura said:

But how deeply?

Lets say we got a single mom raised boy and he is very femenine. How could we help him to develop his masculine side, without the "toxic masculinity" rituals?

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Moreira said:

Lets say we got a single mom raised boy and he is very femenine. How could we help him to develop his masculine side, without the "toxic masculinity" rituals?

Perhaps more “helpful” questions might be: 

How can we accept and love him without projecting onto him that he is incomplete and needs “help” to develop masculine traits? 

How can we help men that judge other men as being insufficiently masculine in need of “help”?

[Moreira]

30 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Perhaps more “helpful” questions might be: 

How can we accept and love him without projecting onto him that he is incomplete and needs “help” to develop masculine traits? 

How can we help men that judge other men as being insufficiently masculine in need of “help”?

Whenever I try to find which is right I just observe nature. Because nature hasnt been manipulated by humans. See the principle of gender in the Kybalion.

What you say is defending determinism: If a kid has had the bad luck to be raised without father, let him be like that.

Why its better to keep being be the result of a bad destiny instead of fixing and compensating it?

daddy issues, addictions, compulsive behaviour, the nice syndrome, theres a lot of problems derived by the lack of a masculine/femeninje figure in childhood.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Moreira

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Moreira said:

Whenever I try to find which is right I just observe nature. Because nature hasnt been manipulated by humans. See the principle of gender in the Kybalion.

What you say is defending determinism: If a kid has had the bad luck to be raised without father, let him be like that.

Why its better to keep being be the result of a bad destiny instead of fixing and compensating it?

daddy issues, addictions, compulsive behaviour, the nice syndrome, theres a lot of problems derived by the lack of a masculine/femeninje figure in childhood.

There seems to be judgements of what is “good” and “bad” as well as a rationalization of that judgement as being “right”.

Of course a household with heterosexual parents can be healthy, it can also be unhealthy. As well, a household with lesbian or gay parents can be healthy.

You don’t seem to be seeing this through other perspectives and relative experience. . . A man you judge as insufficiently masculine is as “natural” as you are. The relative experience of a human being that identifies as man or masculine is as true and natural as the relative experience of a human being that identifies as a woman or feminine.

There is a young man that has an inner desire to be more masculine, yet didn’t have the resources as a child. There is a young man that resonates with femininity, yet suffers because society tells him there is something “wrong” with you. There is a young man that is gay or desires to be a transgender woman, yet suffers because others have projected onto him that he is not normal and needs to be someone he is not. Marginalization/ostracization of gender is a major cause of neuroses, depression and suicide in young adults. 

I would love the person. If they asked me for help to learn about their true self and grow, I would try to help them. I wouldn’t say “No, that’s actually not who you are. You need help to be someone I think you should be”. If someone told me they desired more confidence and assertiveness, I would try to help them with that. If someone told me they desired to get in touch with their emotions and learn how to be vulnerable, I would help them with that. I wouldn’t project onto them what I think they should be. For me, that doesn’t feel loving and being truly helpful.

I’ve found it helpful to spend time with actual LGBTQ people, learn and observe how natural they are.

 

 

[Moreira]

45 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

To me, this perspective is based on judgements of what is “good” and “bad” as well as a rationalization of that judgement as being “right”.

Of course a household with heterosexual parents can be healthy, it can also be unhealthy. As well, a household with lesbian or gay parents can be healthy.

You don’t seem to be seeing this through other perspectives and relative experience. . . A man you judge as insufficiently masculine is as “natural” as you are. 

There is a young man that has an inner desire to be more masculine, yet never had the resources. There is a young man that resonates with femininity, yet suffers because society tells him there is something “wrong” with you. There is a young man that is gay or desires to be transgender, yet suffers because others have projected onto him that he is not normal and needs to be someone he is not. Marginalization/ostracization of gender is a major cause of neuroses, depression and suicide in young adults. 

I would love the person. If they asked me for help to learn about their true self and grow, I would try to help them. I wouldn’t say “No, that’s actually not who you are. You need help to be someone I think you should be”. If someone told me they desired more confidence and assertiveness, I would try to help them with that. If someone told me they desired to get in touch with emotions and learn how to be vulnerable, I would help them with that. I wouldn’t project onto them what I think they should be. For me, that doesn’t feel loving and being truly helpful.

I wouldn’t throw in determinism. To me, this would be an intellectual way to justify the narrative in my head and avoid expanding into something I am uncomfortable with. It’s more about what is, how the mind judges how “is” should be and the desire to control. This would be a trap of believing in an objective reality and missing relativity. The relative experience of a being that identifies as man or masculine is as true and natural as the relative experience of a being that identifies as a woman or feminine.

I find it helpful to drop how I think nature is or should be and to spend time in actual nature observing. Spending time with actual LGBTQ people and observing how natural they are.

 

 

The sad thing, and the example I proposed, is that some kids dont have the option to experiment both sides (masculinity and femeninity) and then choose how to be.

You cannot deny a single mum raised kid the oportunity to experiment how it feels to be a man, to have a manly behaviour, o certain approach or viewpoints that women dont have.

I agree with you let everybody be lesbian gay transgender, if they want. But the question is more intricate.

What hapens when a femenine kid without father is exposed to media influencing and promoting homosexuality in TV and movies, in progressive schools encouraged to dress like a princess, eating and drinking endocrine disruptors, watching drag queen contests in TV, and dont experimenting the other side of the spectrum? we know what happens.

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Moreira said:

You cannot deny a single mum raised kid the oportunity to experiment how it feels to be a man, to have a manly behaviour, o certain approach or viewpoints that women dont have.

I’m not saying your perspective is wrong. To me, the perspective is narrow and you are extrapolating. 

I feel bad for a boy or girl that is discouraged from developing their masculine traits. And I feel bad for a boy or girl that is discouraged from developing their feminine traits. Yet I don’t correlate male = masculine and female = feminine as best. It is just as disappointing to me to see a boy discouraged from expressing masculine as a boy discouraged from expressing feminine. Yet in most cultures, it the suppression of males expressing feminine is more common, so that is my bigger concern.

You seem to be hyper focused on the loss of masculinity. What about a young boy raised in a house with a masculine father who learned masculine traits? This boy was deprived the opportunity to develop as a feminine man or transgender woman. If he was raised by lesbian women, perhaps he could have blossomed into a beautiful transgender woman - rather than being stuck as a masculine male.

When we identify and see only one side as being good, it creates a lens of perception. If I identify as male and think masculine maleness is best, I will interpret reality through that lens. I will feel bad for boys raised in single mother homes because they didn’t get a chance to have a masculine father role model. if I identify as nonbinary and see exploring non-binary gender as best, I will feel bad for children that grew up with heterosexual parents and were raised to believe they were male or female. I would feel bad they didn’t have the opportunity to explore non-binary genders. Both views come from a place a love, we want people to have access to what we think is good. Yet each view is also contracted through a lens of perception.
 

1 hour ago, Moreira said:

What hapens when a femenine kid without father is exposed to media influencing and promoting homosexuality in TV and movies, in progressive schools encouraged to dress like a princess, eating and drinking endocrine disruptors, watching drag queen contests in TV, and dont experimenting the other side of the spectrum? we know what happens.

I don’t see a LGBTQ or progressive conspiracy to brainwash children into becoming gay, lesbian or transgender. The goal is for LGBTQ inclusion and equality. Yet to the majority dominant group, inclusion and equality appears as a threatening power grab that is harmful. Cis, trans, straight, gay can all be included in society. 

Ironically, the opposite of the situation you describe above is very prevalent and causes a lot of harm. LGBTQ kids undergo enormous marginalization/ostracization/stigmatization. Abuse toward LGBTQ teens is prevalent - such that they often mask their identity and suffer. Their rates of psychological problems and suicide is much higher than the general population. Why don’t you feel concern for these kids? Why aren’t you a advocate for them and willing to fight for them? 

[Conscious life]

On 11/5/2019 at 0:33 AM, Leo Gura said:

What a devil calls strength is actually weakness, and what he calls weakness is actually strength.

 

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