How Am I Not My Brain?

[Eddie_the_Eggplant]

I'm trying to be open-minded to the notion that I am nothing, but I am sure that the concept is incomprehensible. From here, I arrive to two conclusions that bring their own questions.

1. I am, in fact, nothing. (I need help to truly understand what that means.) Can I truly understand what that means? How so?

2. Something that makes more sense to me is that "I" am a concept created by the brain in order to function. (Do I really need this concept to function, though?) 

I hope that we can have a discussion on this. Thanks, everyone!

[SkyPanther]

Just some stuff to play with.

Empty in Buddhist terms is a bit complex.  It does not mean "nothing" per se, but that nothing is inherently "itself".

For instance light.  To us "light" is something... but in reality, it is photons that are emitted as radiation on the electromagnetic spectrum.  We only see a small portion of it:

 

And this is true for all matter.  Matter is energy with a certain frequency.  Without instruments to measure "light" (our eyes, and the brain to be conscious of the Qualia), there is no "light", just photons/electromagnetism.  Consciousness gives that "thing" meaning.  But by itself, it is "nothing" but particle/wave. (which is also a concept we created)

Nothing and something are dependent on each other.  You cannot have one without the other. Because they do not make sense when one is absent.  Like having a coin with only one side.  The problem is that we see nothing and something as separate things; but in reality they are two sides of the same coin.  In Jainism, Buddhism and Hinduism cycles, dependent origination and cause and effect (Kamma) are emphasized.  In the West we tend to see the world as artifacts, not processes.  

 

So from my understanding: 

1) You are as much something as nothing.  Ego, which is what most speak about in enlightenment,  is a construct of memory/experiences/causes/genetics/environment.  It is "real" but is an illusion.

Sort of like this:

 

Your mind creates shapes like these because it puts together information in such a way as to "completes" things that are not actually there.

2)  Do you need this concept to function?  It depends.  If you want to be part of modern culture yes, but you can still see it as an illusion.   You can than construct whatever "personality" or "ego" that best fits the situation. If you see the "egoic self" as impermanent and dependent on your experiences, you can construct whatever ego you wish. 

Of course if the person has still not seen through the egoic self this can cause issues like multiple personality disorders and dissociation. 

The "Arahants" are said not to be able to function in "normal" society without a monastic order supporting them.  Most, if not in a monastic order, would die. 

Quote

 

Milindapanha III.19

"You say that if a layman attains arahantship he must either enter the Order that very day or die and attainparinibbàna. Yet if he is unable to find a robe and bowl and preceptor then that exalted condition of arahantship is a waste, for destruction of life is involved in it."

"The fault does not lie with arahantship but with the state of a layman, because it is too weak to support arahantship. Just as, O king, although food protects the life of beings it will take away the life of one whose digestion is weak; so too, if a layman attains arahantship he must, because of the weakness of that condition, enter the Order that very day or die."

 

 

 

  

Edited May 2, 2016 by SkyPanther

[askdfjnak]

1 hour ago, Eddie_the_Eggplant said:

Something that makes more sense to me is that "I" am a concept created by the brain in order to function. (Do I really need this concept to function, though?) 

"I" am a concept created by the brain, is also a concept created by the brain.

^this is also a concept

You have to move out of the infinite regress of concepts into the realm of experience.

^this is also a concept

Do you see whats happening here?

Once you are in the realm of experience you can search for the beginning and ending points of experience. When you find it is nowhere you will "understand" that you are nothing. But this "understanding" won't be just a concept.  

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Eddie_the_Eggplant said:

I'm trying to be open-minded to the notion that I am nothing, but I am sure that the concept is incomprehensible. From here, I arrive to two conclusions that bring their own questions.

1. I am, in fact, nothing. (I need help to truly understand what that means.) Can I truly understand what that means? How so?

2. Something that makes more sense to me is that "I" am a concept created by the brain in order to function. (Do I really need this concept to function, though?) 

I hope that we can have a discussion on this. Thanks, everyone!

It's not a matter of understanding. It's a matter of 'being' before concepts are placed on top of being. No explanation of the mind could get you there. So, don't try to understand. Try to empty yourself of understanding. These processes are subtractive and deconstructive process, so any understanding placed on top of the phenomenon is going in the opposite direction. The "I" is a thought story, that keeps you believing that you are a small separate person in a large universe. It's the way God convinces itself that it isn't God or at least that's my rational explanation of it. Take it with a grain of salt, though.   

[Corte]

You're trying to do something that goes against everything you've done in this life. I think the concept you bring up is to be used more as inspiration. In your present state of consciousness, it probably is incomprehensible. You can understand what it means by what Skypanther said but this is only the brain trying to understand itself within the limits of the brain. In order to experience it you need to start transcending limits of the human mind, which can take a lot of work over a long time, but with consistent practice its almost inevitable. I feel like its rare for a person to even ponder the possibility of consisting of nothingness, if you can do this, which you have, you've already cleared the first hurdle. I think trying to understand that you're nothing while being a human being can take a lot of passion out of living. Be careful not to use this as an excuse to be depressed! If you don't become depressed while accepting a truth you don't fully understand, then you may find an abundance of passion and purpose for this existence. I hope you can find it on your journey. 

[Eddie_the_Eggplant]

@Corte @Corte @SkyPanther I'm sorry for the tagging, my phone is being difficult.

How do I transcend these limits of the human mind so that I can experience this? 

And thanks to everyone. You have all been a great help!

Edited May 3, 2016 by Eddie_the_Eggplant
Adding words

[charlie2dogs]

5 hours ago, Eddie_the_Eggplant said:

I'm trying to be open-minded to the notion that I am nothing, but I am sure that the concept is incomprehensible. From here, I arrive to two conclusions that bring their own questions.

1. I am, in fact, nothing. (I need help to truly understand what that means.) Can I truly understand what that means? How so?

2. Something that makes more sense to me is that "I" am a concept created by the brain in order to function. (Do I really need this concept to function, though?) 

I hope that we can have a discussion on this. Thanks, everyone!

your brain is a physical organ, the control center of your being is not the brain, the brain only functions because of consciousness, consciousness is the control center, the human body is the physical representation and creation of consciousness.

[charlie2dogs]

13 minutes ago, Eddie_the_Eggplant said:

@Corte @Corte @SkyPanther I'm sorry for the tagging, my phone is being difficult.

How do I transcend these limits of the human mind so that I can experience this? 

And thanks to everyone. You have all been a great help!

you transcend it by becoming self realized functioning as a being of consciousness, rather than a human identity acting out through the ego and desires of the flesh creating consequences for yourself and everyone else.

[Ajax]

By

5 hours ago, Eddie_the_Eggplant said:

I'm trying to be open-minded to the notion that I am nothing, but I am sure that the concept is incomprehensible. From here, I arrive to two conclusions that bring their own questions.

1. I am, in fact, nothing. (I need help to truly understand what that means.) Can I truly understand what that means? How so?

2. Something that makes more sense to me is that "I" am a concept created by the brain in order to function. (Do I really need this concept to function, though?) 

I hope that we can have a discussion on this. Thanks, everyone!

The foundation of science is to be totally unbiased... of course the more that it knows, the harder it is to do so. The idea was to have complete and accurate observations so that it may make inferences from those observations.  However, when models are made... many observations fall short of is original goal.

Let me introduce you to a quotation by Thomas Edison:

"At the time I experimented on the incandescent lamp I did not understand Ohm's Law. Moreover, I do not want to understand Ohm's Law. It would prevent me from experimenting."

My point is the easier you can disregard the theory that the brain is the source of thought, the easier it is to consider new ideas. Try this:

Ask yourself, " How exactly does the brain think a thought?" Do you know? Does anybody know? If you have an answer keep asking why and how until you get to the answer "I don't know". Then you realize that since you don't know, it might not be wise to be clutching to an answer that you don't know. Socratize yourself! So that you can open you mind to new possibilities...

 

To answer your question simply and directly:

Watch leo's videos on enlightenment in sequence and do the exercises that he tells you. Pay full attention and try not to miss a thing. That will be time consuming but it will be the best way to at least attempt to experience it. He gives pretty specific directions.
 

Edited May 3, 2016 by Ajax

[Rodrigo]

@Eddie_the_Eggplant  you cant think about something that doesnt exist by using thoughts that dont exist and expect to experience something real because of it.

The thought you think you have is inventing problems that dont exist and trying to solve them so thoughts of intelligence and spirituality can arise, originating thoughts of achievement, individuality, thoughts of feeling special or superior to less thoughtfull creatures around you......

 

[cetus]

16 hours ago, Eddie_the_Eggplant said:

1. I am, in fact, nothing. (I need help to truly understand what that means.) Can I truly understand what that means? How so?

@Eddie_the_Eggplant This can't be fully understood by mind. Mind is the very thing that separates us from the truth of what we are.  Transcendence of mind is the only way this truth is fully realized. Once that truth is realized, you will never see yourself the same way again.  That could come after many hours of meditation. Or, you could transcend the mind this very moment. But that would instantly shatter the illusory foundation of yourself that you have built all your life. That could be too much to accept at one time. The process of slowly unfolding the truth through meditation is the most gentle way to full acceptance. So what's the pay off? When there is the letting go of self, something wonderful happens. There is the experience of what some refer to as "pure self" or "true self" or "soul" or "Atman" whatever you choose to call it. And that is infinite and does not exist within the confines of mind, and objects and space and time. You transcend all these mental constructs and become liberated. After the experience of the transcendence of mind, mind is than understood for what it is. Just mind. It can be used at any time we choose. Mind or "the brain" becomes just a useful tool for working within this space/time universe we call existence and no longer a mental confinement. Just my 2 cents worth!

Edited May 3, 2016 by cetus56