Is this a workable view on free will vs predetermination?

[zambize]

3 minutes ago, Yousef said:

First of all..desires are never satisfied.  LITTERALY so.  It keep growing and flaming by indulgence. .and they die out only by letting go of them. Also it's important to realize that there is no distinction between desires and "baisc needs." Like food and water. .they are actually even worse.  Because one can live his whole life without petty desires like sex and money and fame ..but he can't survive without food and water.  Sour can you see? ..we are more enslaved by our so called "basic needs". Why we have to feel hungry every  6 hours or so?..isn't that a burden?.  The fact is. .we don't need anything . Every cause .will bring an effect. .if you stopped breathing. .you will die. .just that. .you don't NEED to breath.  you need to breathe if you need to live. but what if you don't need to live?  Because you can never die..now to realize that you must awake. 

While I'm not actively trying to make myself full of desires, if I have the desire to go skiing, I do.  I'm not upset that I have that desires, they just exist.  To me I feel like the idea that you cant have desires leads to an attitude of repression whenever desires come up, and this leads to a less concious state of mind for me.  Many of my desires such as the desire to make myself happier are very welcome to me.  This is not to be confused with being a slave to your desire or needing to act on your desires, because some desires can be toxic and hurtful to yourself and others.  That being said, this is the attitude that has worked best for me, and I plan on seeing it through until once again I find myself realizing how delusional I am

[zambize]

1 minute ago, ivankiss said:

 

Desire is pure and genuine. It is the creator's nudge. A compass.

I actually like a lot of what you said, so just because I picked this one part, doesn't mean I disagree with your post.  Also lowkey love how you write, me and the rest of these chumps are so boring with diction.  

Anyways, I think you have to consider different kinds of desires, certainly it seems that the deepest desire we have is to self actualize, and I would call that pure and genuine.  However what about the desire of a heroine addict to stick a needle in their arm, would you recommend them following through with this desire?  Is it pure and genuine?

[zambize]

1 minute ago, Yousef said:

@zambize @ivankiss which one is worse..a desire to gain 100 million dollars that I can let go of very easily..or a never-ending desire for food that ultimately will not serve it's initial purpose which is survival  (because I will die anyway  )?

I would say it depends on which on makes you suffer more, and also the difficulty in which removing that desire would cause.  My desires dont personally bother me that much, so I really wouldn't mind having both of those desires 

[ivankiss]

@Yousef You don't have to ever die if you choose that  You are eternal. Free.

Thank you @zambize

Liked how you emphasized the desire for self actualization. That is exactly what I am talking about.

If it benefits your growth and expansion; it is real, true and genuine. 

If you are stuck in a loop of self-harm, denial and resistance; it is falsehood. 

What feels good is good, what does not is not. It should not be over-complicated heh.

Emotions are one's compass aswell.

 

[zambize]

Just now, ivankiss said:

@Yousef You don't have to ever die if you choose that  You are eternal. Free.

Thank you @zambize

Liked how you emphasized the desire for self actualization. That is exactly what I am talking about.

If it benefits your growth and expansion; it is real, true and genuine. 

If you are stuck in a loop of self-harm, denial and resistance; it is falsehood. 

What feels good is good, what does not is not. It should not be over-complicated heh.

Emotions are one's compass aswell.

 

Amen to that brother 

[Jack River]

The desire of psychological evolution seems to be the dangerous factor here. 

All things are conditioned and interdependent. The organism looks to keep itself healthy. Intelligence. 

But over time the mechanism that helped keep the organism healthy has actually started working against the organism as a whole. Thought is inherently setting limits and transcending those limits bringing about an imbalance. This imbalance arises from a fundamental confusion. This confusion manifests as desire. 

Desire as in psychologically, when given total importance, seems to distort things of the mind to meet its needs in order to escape fear of fear.

So we seem to be always trying to escape our fear of fear, therefore strengthing fear/desire(duality/conflict). 

Edited January 4, 2019 by Jack River

[ivankiss]

@zambize <3 

[zambize]

6 minutes ago, Yousef said:

So why not die now?

Having a good time, enjoying my life, dont really see how suicide would benefit me.  I'm excited about my future, however irrelevant it may be 

[Jack River]

The choosing between Suicide and no Suicide seems simply reactionary. Mind has concluded upon some construction of mind and acts on that image based on the minds preference(the past). 

Its essentially all positive/negative resistance of desire. 

This desire limits itself by jumping from one contradiction to another, one condition to another, one conflict to another. 

Edited January 4, 2019 by Jack River

[lmfao]

@Preetom What really matters probably isn't the verbal descriptions and arguments you give for free will. What really matters is probably just where your awareness is. I see no reason your view isn't workable, in fact I might like it. 

15 hours ago, Preetom said:

Please share your personal standing on this topic of free will vs predetermination.

Who knows if there is free will or predetermination. The way I guess I might see it is that reality is always in a situation which you did nothing to create. Even the facet of reality that is your awareness is beyond your control, it is just the way it is. 

Edited January 4, 2019 by lmfao

[Preetom]

@Arhattobe @Jack River

Remember the word 'I'. Please honestly write what that word points towards right now in your own experience.

[Preetom]

33 minutes ago, lmfao said:

The way I guess I might see it is that reality is always in a situation which you did nothing to create. 

I become totally silent everytime this hits me  

God's honest truth, I have no idea how come it is what it is and what is about to come

[Jack River]

30 minutes ago, Preetom said:

@Arhattobe @Jack River

Remember the word 'I'. Please honestly write what that word points towards right now in your own experience.

Experience implies I.  

Thats what I’m referring to. The chooser that distinguishes itself between the process of choosing and the choosing. 

 The choosing that arises out of divison. 

The little i is often still concluded upon as being the big I. This is a common trick of mind. 

Conclusion/identification in general is an indication of this. 

But anyway. I’m only talking about what is as it is apparent. Shine light on that what is. It’s up to others if they escape that what is or not. The degree that this escape comes to full stop determines a seeing of what lies beyond that of I. 

Also communication will be difficult when we are speaking of certain teachings. So with the distinction of little i, big I, this is revealed. 

Guess It all depends on how we speak about such matters. 

 

Edited January 4, 2019 by Jack River

[Preetom]

10 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Experience implies I.  

Thats what I’m referring to. The chooser that distinguishes itself between the process of choosing and the choosing. 

 The choosing that arises out of divison. 

The little i is often still concluded upon as being the big I. This is a common trick of mind. 

Conclusion/identification in general is an indication of this. 

But anyway. I’m only talking about what is as it is apparent. Shine light on that what is. It’s up to others if they escape that what is or not. The degree that this escape comes to full stop determines a seeing of what lies beyond that of I. 

Also communication will be difficult when we are speaking of certain teachings. So with the distinction of little i, big I, this is revealed. 

Guess It all depends on how we speak about such matters. 

 

So the 'I' feels located and somehow special/heavy and separate from other things?

[Jack River]

Just now, Preetom said:

So the 'I' feels located and somehow special/heavy and separate from other things?

Any I does so yes. 

[Preetom]

Just now, Jack River said:

Any I does so yes. 

but there is also a simultaneous 'seeing' that sees through that experience?

[Jack River]

3 minutes ago, Preetom said:

but there is also a simultaneous 'seeing' that sees through that experience?

As in conscious awareness? Yes. 

To attention...and perhaps even beyond(no I-no center). But that’s not for me to post about. 

Edited January 4, 2019 by Jack River