I am enlightened; sincere seekers ask me anything in relation to the path

[SOUL]

5 hours ago, Emanyalpsid said:

They go hand in hand, we only separate them with our words. Without words, there is no distinction. So, yes, definitely.

Self identity creates separation, not words, even in the absence of words there can be a perceived separation in awareness from the self identity.... words are the result of this separation, not the impetus to it. The body spontaneously creates self identity which results eventually in words. Even if we clarify awareness of the perception of separation as long as we have the body, it generates the self identity in our consciousness so we can be aware of it but not necessarily distracted by it.

3 hours ago, Jack River said:

Interesting but not totally visualizing the illustration. 

We can say that the dualistic behavior or movement of self is its emotional/thought/feeling reaction that moves in a process/cycle of cause-effect-cause-effect right?

This is what we could refer to as a state of inattention right? A movement of self that feeds its own movement in a constant state of inattention. 

So the duality in itself seems to be in the movement of self that reacts to its own resistance/identification-attachment as if that self were separated from the state of resistance/identification-attachment. Which seems to necessitate this duality. 

So that all seems to be the duality in itself. 

Then can we say that the “state” of attention, which implies no duality/divided attention/awareness is not an opposition or opposite born of the dualistic self, but an energy that doesn’t get wasted feeding it’s own process?

Well, there isn't duality, that is just the mistaken impression of our mind from separation coming from our self identity but it doesn't really exist as duality even if the sense of self creates a perception of separation, The body spontaneously creates the sense of self which causes this perceived separation in our consciousness.

There really is no such thing as inattention either, it is distraction so we still have attention but it directed to the body and it's sense of self with the perceived separation. See how that's a false duality? It's not like we either are attentive or have no attention as opposites but our attention is distracted from being on the unity and instead it's on the separation,

At no point are we without attention/awareness, it's just focused elsewhere, it's distracted from the holistic presence of being. All that movement stuff you talk about are examples of what distracts of the separation from self identity. I try not to get too complicated in my own experience of the path because I have found that attempting to understand it can be a distraction as well and understanding it isn't a requirement for liberation,

1 hour ago, Mu_ said:

@SOUL

Ya I may have not seen that you touched upon multiple means of enlightenment, if I recall you were stressing the importance of the whole point of liberation being the actual freeing from suffering.

I think your awakening experience you shared is great and the insight you had was powerful, that the path itself can be a distraction.  I even made a video on that.  However and I go back and forth on this, the path/path/religion may serve up to a point to where that recognition is useful.  Because honestly if you like cutting away all the bullshit and unnecessities of waking up, even the idea that there is existential yearning that cuts away peace and contentment can be a barrier or prevention.  One can still get caught up in the seeking of finding peace and contentment.  Realization is not that.

Well, multiple words at least, that is what I was suggesting.

As long as we have a body and we are alive in that body we are on the path and yes it can be a distraction....it evolved to capture our attention so we behave in a way to keep it alive. Regardless of whether it's simple or complex we walk it and it can be a distraction from being present which is why I simplify mine own path, less to be distracted with.

The body spontaneously creates the existential yearning that manifests as psychological craving, emotional desire, physical hunger and everything like that to keep the organism alive. As long as we have the body we will have the yearning in all it's forms. Yes, they can all serve as a distraction from simply being present, that's what the body does. The food doesn't come to our mouth, we have to go get it, hunger is a physical discontentment to motivate us to eat or we die.

That last little bit is you getting distracted by the path, more specifically by the words again. I did say "realization" and you substituted 'seeking of finding' then tried to make a point about the words. Should I now tell you running around telling others 'not it, not it', neti neti is 'not it' and a distraction as well? Nah... that's 'not it' either, I don't want to be distracted by the path. Haha.

 

Edited November 15, 2018 by SOUL

[Jack River]

8 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Well, there isn't duality, that is just the mistaken impression of our mind from separation coming from our self identity but it doesn't really exist as duality even if the sense of self creates a perception of separation, The body spontaneously creates the sense of self which causes this perceived separation in our consciousness.

There really is no such thing as inattention either, it is distraction so we still have attention but it directed to the body and it's sense of self with the perceived separation. See how that's a false duality? It's not like we are attentive or have no attention as opposites but our attention is distracted from being on the unity and it's on the separation,

At no point are we without attention/awareness, it's just focused elsewhere, it's distracted from the holistic presence of being. All that movement stuff you talk about are examples of what distracts of the separation from self identity. I try not to get too complicated in my own experience of the path because I have found that attempting to understand it can be a distraction as well and understanding it isn't a requirement for liberation,

Sure. But that illusion/impression is as real as self makes it. That’s why it’s so gnarly.

Thats kind of the point as well. The path is the same process of the self. From the standpoint of the self who is identified with the impression/“process of divison” that “movement” is very real. 

If innatention is taking place, that is the fact(what is taking place) as a state of innatention. 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Jack River

[SOUL]

1 minute ago, Jack River said:

Sure. But that illusion/impression is as real as self makes it. That’s why it’s so gnarly.

Thats kind of the point as well. The path is the same process of the self. From the standpoint of the self who is identified with the impression/“process of divison” that “movement” is very real. 

Yes, attention on the self identity distracts from awareness simply being present. The path is the product of the body just as is the sense of self identity a product of the body. Even if we don't focus on the self identity the body will still produce the sense of self and is part of the part.

Simplifying the path to just being present and only addressing what the body needs to survive as the body creates the sensation to motivate us it ceases to feed the self identity as a distraction on the path. The body creates the sensations to keep it alive but we don't have to create and believe the story about the body to be alive.

[Jack River]

I use to know, from accumulating knowledge,  that this movement was an illusion, but that still did not mean I understood the whole of the movement. This seems to determine the degree of embodiment/action in our day to day relationship. I “knew” with divided attention this movement was illusion before, as I conformed to that idea. But to actually see this “movement” with its reaction and maintain a relationship with it is a lot different than believing it as an idea. This seems to be the barrier to actually embodying/complete action. 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

11 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Yes, attention on the self identity distracts from awareness simply being present

To me it seems to be, Attention is action that is whole..and in that “state” self identity is not in movement. SEEING is its ending. This ofcourse can be seen as the process unfolds. 

That is not a distraction to me. The distraction is inattention itself. Inattention seems to be the state of (thought/emotion reaction loop that feeds itself). 

If that makes sense

Edited November 15, 2018 by Jack River

[SOUL]

10 minutes ago, Jack River said:

To me it seems to be, Attention is action that is whole..and in that “state” self identity is not in movement. SEEING is its ending. This ofcourse can be seen as the process unfolds. 

That is not a distraction to me. The distraction is inattention itself. Inattention seems to be the state of innaterntion(thought/emotion reaction loop that feeds itself). 

If that makes sense

There is no inattention, that's part of the false perception of duality. Awareness is aware, it's just a matter of what is the awareness/attention on? Is it on being present or is it on all the self identity/movement stuff?

Edited November 15, 2018 by SOUL

[Jack River]

1 minute ago, SOUL said:

There is no inattention, that's part of the false perception of duality. Awareness is aware, it's just a matter of what is the awareness/attention on?

I feel you brah..

There is no movement unless there is

This is what I just referred to. 

That depends on the degree and quality of awareness. Do you see what I am saying dude? 

[Jack River]

Thats the point, is the “movement/process” of attachment/resistance/identification aware through its own veil, or...?

Edited November 15, 2018 by Jack River

[Emanyalpsid]

3 hours ago, SOUL said:

Self identity creates separation, not words, even in the absence of words there can be a perceived separation in awareness from the self identity.... words are the result of this separation, not the impetus to it. The body spontaneously creates self identity which results eventually in words. Even if we clarify awareness of the perception of separation as long as we have the body, it generates the self identity in our consciousness so we can be aware of it but not necessarily distracted by it.

Well, this is the same as with insight and liberation. They go hand in hand, in other words; they are mutually dependent. Words create a self and the other way around. The body does not spontaneously create a self identy, this comes from ignorance, wrong-knowing or lack of understanding. I get the feeling you didn't see through the mutual dependent origination of everything yet as you deem understanding as less important. For more information, see chapter 10, 11 and 12 on the website.

 

To elaborate a bit more for the readers to understand. Both explantions underneath are true and both are not-true, however they are not false. 

-How can we have genuine and clear insight with the conditioned self identity filtering our perception? So it seems that attachment doesn't lead to insight but it is liberation, unattached perception, that leads to insight.

-Yes, but liberation comes from insight, whether it is an intuitive understanding or a conceptual understanding doesn't matter, it stretches from feeling to thought. In relation to Buddhism of course.

Liberation leads to insight and insight leads to liberation. So they are both true, but therefore, if one looks for the truth, they both can not be true. However, they are not false either. It is the believe in 'truth,' you have, which prevents you from seeing through this as one must be false and one must be true.

So, if two people discuss enlightenment, but who are not enlightened; 

1. they will try to reason their way to the truth, however in this case there are two truths. So there is a big chance they will differ from opinion what enlightenment is and how to reach it. They will not see that they are both true and will only get mingled up in semantics and the search for the real truth. They will not get closer to enlightenment. 

2. however, because one can only understand this when actually reaching nirvana, one has to hold on to a truth before that, as else one would remain in continiuous doubt. Therefore, buddhism designed the four noble truths. However, because 'truth' has such a central point in western thinking, we become too attached to the truth. In the end you will need to let this go again and if you become too attached to this, it inhibits your enlightenment. Therefore, I dont mention the truth anywhere on the website, but only use empirical evidence out of science. 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Emanyalpsid

[Emanyalpsid]

@Jack River I will go into your questions another day, I noticed them though. I had a rough day and contemplating about these deep subjects cost a lot of energy. This forum is my first discussion with other people about enlightenment and I have to dive in the minds of others and my own. And I dont have a lot of experience with this yet. Also my 'enlightenment' is not so long ago and there are a lot of subjects brought up here, which I did not think or talk to about with others yet.

[Mu_]

2 hours ago, Jack River said:

Observation of this whole process of self/path(fixed projected structure) is pretty gnarly. SEEING it as the unit of movement/time that it is. 

 

2 hours ago, Jack River said:

@Mu_ fosho. 

the word implies a quality condition or state, but I wouldn’t refer to it as a state/condition. This “place” where knowing is not.

Not that its that big of a deal, because if you truely are where you describe it can be pretty perfect, nothing needs to change.  However in the pursuit of truth and who and what you are.  The place your referring to as ultimate is only 1 vantage point of all the infinities views, it is not itself the ultimate.  I dont think its possible to have a view that is simultaneously experiencing the infinity of all views from their vantage point at all times with all knowledge and all past and all destiny included.  This is what I referee to as Gods view and its unreachable and unknowable.  Self understanding of this I believe can free you as the "i" and into understanding i-I and letting go of pointing to a state/location/idea of god/infinity/awareness/nonduality and into a continuous recognition that God is never not the case.

[Mu_]

7 minutes ago, Emanyalpsid said:

@Jack River I will go into your questions another day, I noticed them though. I had a rough day and contemplating about these deep subjects cost a lot of energy. This forum is my first discussion with other people about enlightenment and I have to dive in the minds of others and my own. And I dont have a lot of experience with this yet. Also my 'enlightenment' is not so long ago and there are a lot of subjects brought up here, which I did not think or talk to about with others yet.

I'm in the same boat.

[Emanyalpsid]

2 hours ago, FoxFoxFox said:

Do you have active kundalini, and if so, what insight has it specifically unlocked so far? What is your understanding of bliss?

I dont know what kundalini is exactly, but it has something to do with feeling/releasing of energy in different body parts right? I feel a lot of energy in my head, a bit the same as when you are high and you feel this in your head. You could say I feel a bit high all the time, but I am not in my head. I feel very 'grounded.' But I presume that this is feeling of energy is more due to an increase of neurtransmitter activity in the brain due to an increase in connections between neurons. Created due to an increase in ways you perceive and look at things or some sort. The opposite of what happens in the brain when someone is depressed, where the numbers of used connections decreases. 

If someone wants to call this kundalini, soit.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Emanyalpsid

[Jack River]

@Mu_ @Emanyalpsid?

 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Jack River

[Emanyalpsid]

On 14-11-2018 at 7:56 PM, Hellspeed said:

A true Enlightened Master can heal him/her and others. Egoic Enlightened and the realization of truth, not, this stage hasn't reached Turquoise yet. 

What do you mean with heal?

[Jack River]

34 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

The place your referring to as ultimate is only 1 vantage point of all the infinities views, it is not itself the ultimate.  I dont think its possible to have a view that is simultaneously experiencing the infinity of all views from their vantage point at all times with all knowledge and all past and all destiny included.  This is what I referee to as Gods view and its unreachable and unknowable. 

I don’t think we are talking about the same nonthing.  

Are you learned on this stuff I’m talking about? 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Jack River

[Mu_]

9 minutes ago, Jack River said:

@Mu_ @Emanyalpsid?

 

So are you actually a surfer?  Your dudes, brah's, profile picture and other use of language makes me think of stereo typical surfer.

[Jack River]

Just now, Mu_ said:

So are you actually a surfer?  Your dudes, brah's, profile picture and other use of language makes me think of stereo typical surfer.

 

 yeah I am a looser surf rat  

[Mu_]

8 minutes ago, Jack River said:

I don’t think are talking about the same nonthing.  

Are you learned on this stuff I’m talking about? 

As much as I've been able to follow, its in line with many of the same understandings I've encountered as well.  But I do admit some of your usages of words/metaphors and analogies you've shared, I have a hard time following sometimes.  Its no fault, I get told the same thing sometimes.  I guess as a soul recognizing a soul searching for and trying to understand this whole thing called "....." I've been trying to highlight a particular nuance to you that maybe is not my place to..  There is only 1 thing and your nonthing and my idea's and all our idea's on this forum and realizations are "It". 

 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Mu_

[Mu_]

Maybe you get it, maybe you don't, maybe you want to get it, maybe you don't, either way its fine, theres no "out there requirement" you have to, but as a seeker of truth, I imagine its what your trying to understand, or maybe I've misunderstood.  And maybe its not my place, so I'll leave it at that.