On naive application of spiral dynamics

[tsuki]

TL;DR at the bottom of the post.

Even though Leo points it out on many different occasions, I would like to address one thing about the model that seems tricky to notice.
When we learn about various stages of the spiral dynamics model, we know that we are somewhere in the spiral.
One result of it is that it will influence our perception of other people in relation to us.
What is counter-intuitive to me (and I became aware of it only recently) is the fact that our color will influence our understanding of the model as we learn it.
Spiral dynamics is a different tool for a person in Red, Blue, Orange, Green, and so on. So please be mindful of what you are trying to do with it and try to see whether it matches up to the color of your choice.

The other thing I noticed is that it is, in my opinion, impossible to reliably judge other people's color.
From my observation so far, it seems that each stage is in reaction to the excesses of the previous stage through (relatively) deep understanding of the assumptions they make about reality. To illustrate the problem, let's say that I'm Orange:

As Orange, I can see that Blue uses religion as the source for making its choices through literal interpretation of a holy book (be it the Bible, Quran, or the law).
As Orange, I can understand that it is only a book and my worldview is constructed in reaction to absolute laws of Blue. In my world, everything goes as long as it serves my personal values.
It is not immediately apparent though, whether a person that I try to judge is Blue or Green, because both of them use religion/spirituality for different reasons. The reasons of said person however may never become a subject of exploration, because as Orange, I'm not compelled to ask questions about religion that I just rejected. From the point of view of Orange - every reason that does not serve my agenda may very well be absolutist, so every other stage gets lumped together as something that is below me.

That argument may be generalized regardless of the color I'm currently at.
Rejection of something that comes before our stage blocks us from appreciating things from later stages, so they become lumped together.

The other half of the same argument is that we cannot reliably tell which stage we're at, again because of the reactional nature of growth.
Things that are rejected at one stage come back later on as valuable in conjunction with the previous stage.
Red is compelled to think about itself as Orange.
Orange is very compelled to think of itself as Yellow.

Again, if we're not rejecting aspects of the model, but exhausting them, then it becomes increasingly difficult to type yourself if you're a high stage.
By exhaustion I mean saying as Green: Capitalism is meh, instead of saying Capitalism is bad. Wouldn't a disinterested Blue or Turquoise say the same thing?

TL;DR: Spiral Dynamics is a great model with a lot of nuance to it. Judging others with it says more about you than about them.

[Brittany]

I agree with your post.

From the perceptive of the void, spiral dynamics is  "the dream trying to understand the dream".

Spiral Dynamics is flawed simply because it is not silence. All noise is in the dream. And spiral dynamics is part of the noise.

It is good to see the bullshit in all systems but still see the usefulness in playing around in them.

Edited July 1, 2018 by Brittany

[Leo Gura]

@tsuki Those are good points.

That's exactly right: your perspective is always relative. There is no such thing as absolute stages. Your ability to understand each stage depends on what stage of the Spiral you are at. And you ego will tend to cloud your vision of the Spiral until you get to solid Yellow.

Many of the lower stages will no be able to understand Spiral Dynamics at all, rejecting it out of hand, or misusing the model for egoic purposes.

[tsuki]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Your ability to understand each stage depends on what stage of the Spiral you are at. And you ego will tend to cloud your vision of the Spiral until you get to solid Yellow.

@Leo Gura Do you think that learning spiral dynamics is a prerequisite to becoming Yellow?
Of course, if you don't know spiral dynamics, you are oblivious to colors, so it is a prerequisite for typing yourself as any stage.
What I'm asking is whether other people's knowledge about SDi should be taken into consideration when typing them?
Or more broadly: should knowledge, or any factual data (like events in life) about people be taken into consideration when typing them?

This prerequisite about learning SDi can be seen as a self-perpetuating mechanism of this model. Locking a stage only to people that know the model.
It's like a mechanism straight out of an MMORPG.

Edited July 2, 2018 by tsuki

[Leo Gura]

@tsuki It's not strictly a prerequisite. There are people who I would classify as Yellow who don't know Spiral Dynamics exists.

But learning Spiral Dynamics will super-charge your ascent and mastery of Yellow and help open you up to Turquoise.

Noam Chomsky is a Yellowish guy, and I don't think he knows about Spiral Dynamics.

Yellow just requires a passion for removing all biases from your perception of the world, and being able to explore diverse perspectives with radical openmindedness and neutrality.