Spiral Dynamics Green Meme Explained in Detail

[White]

"The Individualist – Pluralist Stage 4/5 describes what a person can “see” with a fourth person 
perspective. People now realize that things are not necessarily what they seemed at earlier stages because the interpretation of reality always depends on the position of the observer. Thus the idea of myself as a participant observer as well as having multiple perspectives becomes fascinating to explore. 

Once we realize that as observers we inevitably influence what we observe, pure, detached, that is, “objective” judgment becomes impossible. This individual discovery is supported by more recent challenges to the rational/scientific assumptions of the Newtonian world view in both the subatomic and the astrophysical sciences. We cannot help but filter our observations through our personal and subjective lenses. Simultaneously, once we also allow for the validity of others’ personal views and perspectives, we can no longer disregard the enormous diversity of people and their beliefs, values and 
preferences. They are all seem equally valid and worthy of consideration.

Cognition: recognition of multiple perspectives, 
beginning awareness of the complexity of systems and cultural conditioning

Relativism: discovery of non-objectivity as participant-observer, and of the potential for defensive self-deception 

Positive expression: vivid individualism. Focus 
on and relishing experience in the present, listen to every voice, honor all ideas equally

Truth: can never be found; everything is relative; 
there is no place to evaluate anything with certainty (postmodernism).

Fear of being sucked back into the conventional mindset and constrained by its demands.

The 4th person perspective represents the next differentiation stage in the sequence of the stage by 
stage differentiation-integration pattern. It is considered a major watershed in EDT (Ego Development Theory) as it signifies the move from conventional to postconventional meaning making. Several of the other developmental theories consider the next, the Strategist stage, as a more crucial transformation. From a meaning 
making point of view, what is deemed most important is simply a matter of emphasis and choice. 
Overall, each new stage represents a new reality for the subject, a new way of identifying as a self and of understanding und relating to the world.

The 4th person perspective allows individuals to stand outside the system they grew up in andobserve themselves and their cultural surround from a new altitude. From there one gets a better view of the whole valley or plane below. One can look at the familiar (status quo) through a new lens and query many of its tacit assumptions, values, and beliefs.

The 4th person perspective allows individuals to focus on epistemology, that is, to examine how they came to believe what they believe and feel and how one knows and proves things. The transition to the first postconventional stage is a watershed in so far as it is the first time that the vertical move and the questioning of previously unexamined ideas is no longer supported by society and its chief 
conventional representatives.

Postconventional thinking and questioning assumptions may be taught and encouraged in college courses, but then challenged and or dismissed at work and at home. At this stage of differentiation, individuals realize that all groups and societies see it as their mandate to mold the minds and hearts of their members. What’s novel is that they can now perceive how much their values and worldviews have been influenced by the environments into which they were born, in which they were raised, and in which they currently operate. Who we think we are depends on the historical context, geographic place, economic circumstances, education, the overall structure of the society, and many other factors that are part of shaping us. We have far less control over being “molded” than we previously understood. Socialization, it turns out, is relentless and ongoing from the 
day we enter the world. It begins with the earliest inculcation of what are considered desirable thoughts, feelings, values, and behavior and what is not. It continues through schooling and is reinforced at every moment via the media, commerce, and, most subtly, by the very nature of one’s native language and communication patterns. While the discursive habit is essential for learning and vertical development, it also poses an invisible danger by its deep and unconscious place in most people’s consciousness. 
For many the recognition that one’s own view of life is not the only possible one happens when 
traveling abroad and encountering other peoples and languages. Nowadays, access via television and internet to different ways of life and other mores can open ordinary people’s eyes to diverse perspectives even in the remotest corners of the world. This is in striking contrast to earlier historical periods when only adventurers dared to hazard abroad and often never came back to tell their stories while most ordinary denizens had no access to knowledge beyond their immediate local communities. 
Today’s ubiquity and profusion of information, however, cuts both ways. English as the dominant 
language of international exchange also acts as powerful indoctrination into Western definitions of what 
adults should strive for, what personal attributes will favor success in the world, in short what it means to live the good life.

With the turn away from the achievement-orientation and the external world towards inner 
experience -- Individualists and Pluralists alike discover how subjective one’s perspective is and how much of what seemed objective is in the eye of the beholder. The move from being unconsciously embedded in a cultural surround to having a perspective on it can be both liberating and confusing. 
Liberating because now I am even more able to explore and recognize my own unique way of being a human being with new choices and more capacity to understand many fascinating aspects of the world.

 
Confusing because now there are unlimited ways of perceiving the world without any one view better than another. The same object/event can have different meanings for different observers, for the same observer in different contexts or at different times. 

Stage 4/5 persons become interested in watching themselves trying to make sense of themselves. This constitutes an important change in thought mode. Individualists-Pluralists abandon purely rational 
analysis in favor of a more holistic, organismic approach in which feelings, body sensations and context are taken into account. The 4th person perspectives allows people to move from merely logical thinking to a more subtle, psycho-logical approach. The need to reason and to explain everything by rational means lessens. Experience itself becomes the new attraction. Thus the process (or journey) of discovery is now as more intriguing than reaching a goal or creating a product. 
Individualists and Pluralists tend to distrust conventional wisdom and the hyper-rational tenets of 
the Conscientious stage. At least initially, they may reject the Achiever mindset wholesale. They may try to distance themselves from all that went before and reject the strive-drive values of the prior stage. This demands that they reevaluate the soundness of the prefixed role identities that society offers and 
sanctions. One must redefine themselves uniquely and independently of these givens based on their own experience, values, and conclusions. 
When one fully realizes that most prior meaning making was socially and culturallyconditioned, 
scientific certainty and the judgmental frame of mind break down. Moreover, Individualists can learn to consciously scrutinize their beliefs in order to test their assumptions or to relish the novel mental freedom such a maneuver opens up. A big discovery for this stage is the relativity of points of view. 

When people first become aware of this, they may see everything as relative and reject any prior 
certainties including scientific knowledge as absolute and therefore “false.” It takes experience at this stage to realize that successful living likely requires some of the earlier values. Most individuals need to 
make a living to survive. Sticking with a job one may not totally like and getting along with others who do not appreciate constant questioning is thus a requirement for most adults no matter how creative and postconventional one may be.

As Stage 4/5 individuals explore their feelings and motivations, they can also begin to become 
aware of how easily we can fool ourselves. The possibility of defensive self-deception and culturally-biased distortion are now starting to be experienced as ever-present dangers. Given the increasing awareness of one’s own vulnerabilities, persons at the 4th person perspective can exhibit a new, non-hostile type of humor that is directed towards the self. It is based on an the beginning sense of the futility 
of framing things in terms of right and wrong, provable or disprovable. It also recognizes how easily we can fool ourselves about our motives and intentions. 

Cognition: With the 4th person perspective, individuals realize that things are rarely what they 
seem. Rather than problems to solve, one must figure out what to define as “the” problem (a double loop move). Many things that appear as problems can now be seen as polarities to be managed since most values come in pairs. Thus, In the positive, liberated version of this stage, individuals may enjoy paradoxes and contradictions and no longer try to explain them away. “To heck with it! Everything is 
relative.” Linear, intellectual logic gives way to a more holistic understanding of things. It is not always necessary to prove everything in order to embrace it. There is a perception that sudden insights and breakthroughs are possible. Playful exploration and imagination are set free. Life is fresh and enticing.
Rather than trying isolate aspects of experience into different to categories and analyze them 
separately as independent variables, Stage 4/5 individuals are looking for connections and subtler clues to what is going on. Useful information can come from many sources that were previously considered 
outside the realm of scientific inquiry and viewed with skepticism, such as body sensations, intuition, 
dreams, reflection, and meditation. Therefore, the shift from conventional to postconventional stages 
also reflects a qualitative shift from a more linear, rational, intellectual to a more organismic and embodied awareness. In addition, this new way of perceiving can foster the realization that the whole 
(the Gestalt) is more than its separate parts. Therefore attempting to see the whole picture with its parts rather than merely parts and the details becomes an ever more important consideration with further 
vertical development.

 
Individualist expression of the 4th person perspective: 
Rather than trying to analyze everything, Individualists want to enjoy their own subjective 
experience. What can be trusted is one’s personal experience, sensations, thoughts and feelings in the here and now. Thus, there is a major shift from the Conscientious person’s preference for “doing” to 
focusing on “being and feeling.” Instead of marching into the future, Individualists become now-oriented.

They begin to notice how feelings are diffused throughout the body. They can come to realize how 
feelings, thoughts and body sensations affect each other. There is a new sense of body/mind connection and a beginning understanding of the interwoven, systemic nature of experience. 

Individualists often replace the focus on causality (past) and goals (future) of the Conscientious person with a fascination with the immediate present. They need to understand and watch how things unfold. Their attention turns from outcomes and deliverables to an interest in the processes, the 
relationships and the complex, non-linear influences among variables. Individualists watch how they themselves and other people change and behave differently in different contexts. They have an existential appreciation for how each moment differs from the next. Therefore the present is newly 
infused with salience and poignancy. Individualists often express hope and enthusiasm for their lives and their unique experience that others find inspiring. At the same time, they may be so idealistic and enamored with their discoveries, they ignore potential difficulties or downsides. In that case, others may find them too unrealistic, “too intense,” or simply “too much.”
Individualists are often concerned with making a unique and personal contribution to the world independent of any socially approved roles or tasks. But part of the work as a postconventional adult is to discover what that unique purpose may be. They can therefore become enthralled with watching themselves trying to make sense of themselves. 
They often withdraw from external affairs and company life, or from ordinary daily routines. Instead, they turn inward in search of their unique gifts or answers to their own burning questions. If they are given room to be themselves and time to experiment freely, they can provide valuable input to the work-place. They find novel ways of looking at problems, or inspire others with their enthusiasm in pursuing their own interests and questions. If working independently, they are likely to fashion schedules and work contexts to optimize their flourishing. Sometimes, they are content to simply live day by day 
following “their own drummer.” Today’s hippy culture still embodies some of that sense of freedom and self-expression in the company of like-minded others symptomatic of the Individualist mindset. 

We have found in our data that Individualists may or may not have a communal bend. Some folks turn towards away from society and focus on their own meaning making. They explore their own minds and hearts and are less preoccupied with issues of equality and making sure that all voices are being 
heard. While they would not discourage such endeavors for those who are into this, it is not where their own interests and energies reside. Unlike Experts, they do appreciate that others have their own unique ways of doing things and being themselves. They recognize that different people have different needs and preferences. That includes their personal need for now exploring their interiors. They are therefore less apt to judge others. Indeed they may at times appear almost “amoral” in their demand to be who 
they are and do what they want. 
In the extreme, when Individualists overfocus on their inner world and the experience of having multiple – often seemingly incompatible -- selves they may express frustration with development and ever expanding self-knowledge. The more one explores, the more confused one may get. When the overriding feeling becomes “everything is relative,” and “there is nothing to hold on to,” cynicism and
nihilism can become a way to defend against the feeling of being adrift on a vast unknown sea unmoored and rudderless. 

Identity: While some people at Stage 4/5 relish inconsistencies as proof of the illogical nature of 
conventional beliefs, others at this stage may become confused by observing the many contradictions. 
They often describe themselves as having subpersonalities, many voices, or as an “inner tribe.” These voices cannot be readily synthesized into a coherent self-identity. “Sometimes I act, feel and think one way, other times in another depending on all sorts of conditions: my mood, how well I have slept, what context I was in. There is a struggle within myself, different voices competing for attention. And all seem 
real and important parts of me. Who am I? What is going on? How can anyone tell with certainty who they really are as they are changing and growing?” Thus, the prevalent anxiety of Stage 4/5 is around integrating different parts of oneself. “I can be both my old rational self, and a new, different kind of person; I am afraid I have multiple personalities. I feel confused, split, ambivalent.”
Instead of the imagined greater integration and harmony, the 4th person perspective and 
experience may feel like a cacophony rather than a symphony. Depression at this level has several 
facets: a) The realistic fear of being reabsorbed, that is sucked back into the “rat race” of the Achiever mindset by the demands of society; b) The dread of a routine work life that does rarely allows for individual self-expression and creativity; c) The concern that one will never find a clear self-definition from which to consistently operate and generate a coherent self sense; d) The deep experience of worry 
and tensions that come from growing beyond the conventional mindset especially when it comes to intimate relationships.
The experience of looking at the world with different eyes than those that used to be one’s closest allies, such as a spouse or a long-term friend, can create great distress for both parties. While the conventional partner is confused about the new way of behaving of the person with the 4th person perspective, those who are postconventional feel misunderstood and un appreciated for what they now 
feel they have to offer. The latter also often wish for the significant other to become more like 
themselves. This, in turn, can make the person “left behind” feel disrespected and misunderstood. In this sense, the move of one partner from conventional to postconventional meaning making poses a particular challenge to couples and long-term relationships. Unlike later stages, early postconventional 
individuals cannot yet fully appreciate the gifts of the earlier levels. They genuinely feel that if only others -- including their loved ones -- would become more like themselves, then everybody would be happier and the whole world would be better place.

Pluralist expression of 4th person perspective

Pluralists, on the other hand, tend to focus on the multiplicity of voices and contexts. Aware of their own views as interpretations, they do not want to impose these on others. They seek instead to respect and understand all positions. Individual differences are celebrated and paid attention to in a way that Achievers cannot yet appreciate. The very differences become the center of attention now rather than being bracketed out in order to “manage” the differences in order to reach an agreed upon goal. When a 
group of mostly Pluralists get together, they often make room for everybody to express their positions and opinions as each person’s view is considered equally genuine and valid from their own point of view 
as well as a crucial aspect of the overall diversity in the room. 
The tendency, to treat every opinion with the same regard can be driven to an extreme. In 
societies, organizations or teams where everybody’s voice is given equal opportunity for expression, 
meetings can run on forever and little gets resolved or accomplished. The over-focus on fairness and voice, can lead to “decision paralysis” as no one dares to take a lead role, assert a position, or make an executive decision for fear to be seen as unilateral, uncooperative, or oppressive. Indeed, it is one of the more problematic attributes of many proponents of radical pluralism that they judge all hierarchies as oppressive. They cannot recognize that decision paralysis is its own form of oppression and constraint. 
On the positive side, especially those individuals who were or felt marginalized in the past may feel 
acknowledged and heard for the first time. 

Above all, an awareness of human diversity and multiple perspectives is the powerful and 
progressive contribution that this stage has brought to human affairs. Moreover, the egalitarian 
emphasis of the Pluralist worldview is an important step towards further differentiation and integration Although it is difficult for Stage 3/4 and Stage 4 people to tolerate committed Pluralists with their egalitarian fervor, Pluralists have prepared the way for an even deeper appreciation and tolerance of 
difference, one that allows for making qualitative distinctions as well as for cherishing human diversity. This more discerning and flexible view becomes possible at the next, the Strategist stage. To differentiate this capacity from the Pluralist perspective, an individual at the next level can prioritize 
among voices because they recognize that some views are based on better evidence and take more aspects of a situation into account. 

When Loevinger created her original theory in the sixties and seventies, a focus on diversity and equality of perspectives was at the forefront of social thought. People who dedicated themselves to bringing diversity issues into the public discourse were therefore deemed postconventional. In the 
meantime, diversity and equality concerns are mentioned at all levels of development because they have become anchored in the law. Therefore mere mentioning of diversity and gender equality no longer indicates postconventional development. Especially when Achievers and Experts execute 
diversity trainings, even with the best of intentions, they may focus so much on the differences to be 
valued that the bonds of our common humanity can get overlooked in the process. 
A special case of pluralism is the academic discipline of deconstructive postmodernism. It beliefs that it is impossible to defend any belief by proclaiming that all views are subjective and therefore legitimate since everything is relative. When relativism is carried to its logical extreme no view or interpretation is better than any other. All are equal. Postmodernists believe that any metanarrative 
succumbs to the same subjective arbitrariness. They deny the legitimacy of all hierarchies and all hierarchical ordering. When Pluralists adopt this belief, they may be hypersensitive to perceived instances of judgment as “better” or “valuable” in human terms. According to Wilber, radical postmodernism leads to what he calls “Boomeritis (2003).” In the extreme case, postmodernists assert 
with absolute certainty that there is no position from which to judge anything. They do not yet recognize the inherent self-contradiction in their assertion. It is, of course, a form of judgment and hierarchical ordering of values as those who disagree clearly have a less evolved view from theirs. 

Social: The very heightened capacity to contact the self and to introspect leads to a greater 
capacity to empathize with others and to tolerate different ideas, behaviors and reactions. Stage 4/5 individuals are often admired by others, especially by other postconventional persons, for their unconcerned, energetic self-expression, their spontaneity, and their ability to live a life according to their own unique style free from restrictive conventions. At the same time, they may be feared as unpredictable or dismissed as dreamers and non-doers, especially in an strive-drive Achiever context. 

Their relationships with others are intense and mutually rewarding when there is synergy and choice. When they have to manage others as part of a job, they can be autocratic or idiosyncratic to such a 
degree, that others find them “impossible to nail down”, “aloof and unapproachable ” or simply “wishy-washy.” One never knows where one stands with such a leader. 

Internal dimension: Individuals are deeply concerned with their interiors, with feelings and motiva-tions. They show a beginning awareness of inner conflict and ambivalence as natural aspects of reality 
and of the potential for defensive self-deception and culturally biased distortion.

 
Cognitive level: Things are not always what they seem. One’s interpretation of the world depends largely on one’s position as an observer. One is always a participant observer. One can never be totally detached or “objective.” The same object has a different meaning for different observers. Individuals 
abandon purely rational analysis in favor of a more holistic, organismic approach in which multiple perspectives and interpretations as well as the context are taken into account. Mature Individualists-
Pluralists can integrate and bridge rational thought with non-linear approaches to getting information. Prevalent anxiety: “I can be both my old rational self, and a new, different kind of person; I am afraid I can’t figure out who I really am. I feel confused, split, ambivalent.”
Depressive style: Inner conflict and despair about ever finding one’s true self. 

Preoccupation: Rather than trying to analyze everything, State 4/5 individuals want to enjoy the 
subjective experience, their unique way of making sense of things. It is all that can be trusted. They are newly focused with being and feeling rather than with doing and achieving. Instead of marching into the future, individuals become now-oriented as they infuse experience in the present with importance. The 
past is gone and the future cannot really be known. Meaning making has shifted from an analytical -intellectual to a more organismic, somatic and holistic mode of understanding. 

Personality types: Individualists often prefer to live at the fringe of society, to live exactly the way 
they want to be. Admired by postconventional people for their spontaneity and unique self-expression, conventional persons may distrust them for being non-conformist and impossible to understand and predict. Avowed Pluralists can be powerful advocates for tolerance and equality, but also get hung up in 
endless discussions and overprivileging diversity to the neglect of our common humanity

Language clues: The Syntax of the 4th person perspective contains many contingencies, non-banal 
qualifications, and several contrasting ideas. “Even though, despite, nonetheless, ,” signal beginning greater cognitive complexity and replace “but” and “or.” Individuals can now entertain contradicting ideas 
and join them by “both/and” and “while.” The writings contain vivid personal information (often 
punctuated with exclamation marks) and more nuanced psychological vocabulary and comments on their own responses to the MAP. MAP protocols show a distinct emphasis and “need” for unique self-expression, a vivid sense of released energy and individuality. The verbal rejection of gender items and other prompts in sentence completions such as ,“How can I generalize?” or “it all depends” indicate beginning awareness of relativity of point of view and the nature of generalization.

[Joseph Maynor]

I’d be more impressed if you described Green from your own experience.  Look inward.  Start to observe Green as it really is, not just post stuff you read about it.  

Edited June 23, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[White]

3 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I’d be more impressed if you described Green from your own experience.  Look inward.  Start to observe Green as it really is, not just post stuff you read about it.  

But none of us know what a red, blue, orange, Green, yellow thought is. That's why we need the map to show us. Or we make mistakes like you do re: you imagine that orange is the beginning of the individual self. That's a huge mistake you made there. You also make many others. Which is why I'm posting actual clinical data and consensus so that anyone who is taking you seriously isn't misled. 

[White]

@Joseph Maynor I mean dude, once people study this then you can't fool them anymore with shit like Joe Rogan is yellow. Joe Rogan doesn't even know what relativism is for heaven's sake . And neither do you . You just read a spiral dynamics, did some trip and now you think you have passed through yellow and onto turquoise in a year . You're deluded. It takes 5 years to get through a stage. And your journal's are full of self pittying bullshit that is about you against this forum and how nobody understands you. That's not yellow at all. Yellow is waaayyyyy out of your league . You haven't a friggin clue Joseph 

[tsuki]

@White What @Joseph Maynor  says is to explain it with your own words, without referencing the text.
See the commonalities between the theory and your understanding. Produce your own spiral dynamics.

This is how you learn what existence is. It is beyond the mind. Trust your connection to it. Use it.

[Joseph Maynor]

1 minute ago, tsuki said:

@White What @Joseph Maynor  says is to explain it with your own words, without referencing the text.
See the commonalities between the theory and your understanding. Produce your own spiral dynamics.

This is how you learn what existence is. It is beyond the mind. Trust your connection to it. Use it.

Wow you’re getting smart!

[tsuki]

2 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Wow you’re getting smart!

Or did you finally started to listen what I'm saying?
Smartness and listening are two sides of the same coin.

Oh, and thanks. I appreciate it.

Edited June 23, 2018 by tsuki

[White]

7 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@White What @Joseph Maynor  says is to explain it with your own words, without referencing the text.
See the commonalities between the theory and your understanding. Produce your own spiral dynamics.

This is how you learn what existence is. It is beyond the mind. Trust your connection to it. Use it.

It doesn't work like that . Go spend some time on an actual integral forum and watch carefully 

[tsuki]

@White Yeah, I'm sure all people will defend their definitions fiercely.
Definitions are not the point of theory though. Integration is.

If you do not see that, then perhaps Joseph is right about your color.
Existentialist philosophy helps to transcend Green. You could take a look into that to evolve.

Edited June 23, 2018 by tsuki

[White]

1 minute ago, tsuki said:

@White Yeah, I'm sure all people will defend their definitions fiercely.
Definitions are not the point of theory though. Integration is.

If you do not see that, then perhaps Joseph is right about your color.
Existentialist philosophy helps to transcend Green. You could take a look into that to evolve.

I would take your advice if I believed that this worked for you and Joseph. It hasn't. 

[tsuki]

1 minute ago, White said:

I would take your advice if I believed that this worked for you and Joseph. It hasn't. 

Either you don't believe that we're tier two, or you don't believe that my proposition had worked for me.
In both cases you're not using the advice because of your current understanding of us.
In short: you don't listen because you don't want to.

[White]

@tsuki I don't listen because I listen to the experts. Not some random on the internet who continually acts out red, blue orange sub personalities while believing they passed through yellow into turquoise in one year. I've been studying integral psychology since 2008 and i know that Joseph maynor is talking lies. He is not at all like a yellow or turquoise. He doesn't understand green and he just uses outside references to imagine what green is. He hasn't passed through that stage yet. Therefore he's not Green, he's blue pretending to be integral.  Read his content and fact check it against actual data from actual psychologists who known what they are talking about. 

[tsuki]

@White Not going to argue with you.
Your sources had been very helpful to me and I wish you best luck in your growth. Keep rockin, man!

[White]

@tsuki you really think Joe rogan is yellow?

That's enough for me to know both of you are talking crap

[Joseph Maynor]

6 minutes ago, White said:

@tsuki I don't listen because I listen to the experts. Not some random on the internet who continually acts out red, blue orange sub personalities while believing they passed through yellow into turquoise in one year. I've been studying integral psychology since 2008 and i know that Joseph maynor is talking lies. He is not at all like a yellow or turquoise. He doesn't understand green and he just uses outside references to imagine what green is. He hasn't passed through that stage yet. Therefore he's not Green, he's blue pretending to be integral.  Read his content and fact check it against actual data from actual psychologists who known what they are talking about. 

You’re the only expert.  That’s what you don’t get.  Experts haha.  Have fun with that.  

Edited June 23, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

15 minutes ago, White said:

I would take your advice if I believed that this worked for you and Joseph. It hasn't. 

Dude you joined the Forum like 3 days ago and you think you know everything about everybody here.  Get your own judgments reined-in a bit.  Your judgments are way ahead of your actual experience.  

Edited June 23, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[White]

@Joseph Maynor you think you went through yellow in one year. The research shows it's impossible. And your behaviour is low consciousness behaviour Joseph. It's just nihilistic rambling about how nobody understands you.  The data is there to show people what yellow looks like. You don't come close. You annoy people, you piss them off, and you gaslight them by trying to excuse your crappy self serving behaviour by saying they are deluded because they are green. I've spelled out what green and yellow is, it's up to other now to fact check your story against the data. That's what the data is for.  

[White]

5 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Dude you joined the Forum like 3 days ago and you think you know everything about everybody here.  Get your own judgments reined-in a bit.  Your judgments are way ahead of your actual experience.  

Again Joseph. I'm not judging.  Im saying that you are not a typical yellow and you are misleading people with false information. Nobody goes through a stage in a year. I've read your first entries on the forum from 1 year ago and you're not even at orange, not fully. There is no way you're enlightened or integral. I just spent the last 3 days busting my gut to show people you're nowhere near the stage descriptions . You're making it up as you go along. Joe Rogan was the blast straw for me, what a load of crap. Joe Rogan?

Edited June 23, 2018 by White

[Joseph Maynor]

5 minutes ago, White said:

Again Joseph. I'm not judging.  Im saying that you are not a typical yellow and you are misleading people with false information. Nobody goes through a stage in a year. I've read your first entries on the forum from 1 year ago and you're not even at orange, not fully. There is no way you're enlightened or integral. I just spent the last 3 days busting my gut to show people you're nowhere near the stage descriptions . You're making it up as you go along. Joe Rogan was the blast straw for me, what a load of crap. Joe Rogan?

Wow!  Thanks for revealing your true motivation to us.  This folks is called a smoking gun.

Edited June 23, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[White]

1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Wow!  Thanks for revealing your true motivation to us.  This folks is called a smoking gun.

Why do you delight in getting into arguments with people? 

You're toxic and delusional and you're misleading people. 

Why are you even here?