Cammy

Thoughts driving me crazy

14 posts in this topic

My understanding: 

  • Thoughts cannot be created or destroyed consciously.
  • "We" are only observers of thoughts.
  • Meditation slows down or stops thoughts from appearing to us (observers) so we can just simply be present in the moment.
  • "We" assign values to thoughts for our survival therefore experience life through our own custom lenses.
  • These thoughts that come to us do not reflect the Truth.

If you don't agree with these or want to expand on the points then comment below. I want to learn.

I have about a million questions but I'll only drop a handful.

Where it becomes unclear for me:

  • Is the process of observing thoughts in itself direct experience?
  • Can I influence thoughts or does free will not exist? 
  • Am I just pure consciousness observing this body (vessel) interact with the world?

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5 hours ago, Cammy said:
  • Is the process of observing thoughts in itself direct experience?
  • Can I influence thoughts or does free will not exist? 
  • Am I just pure consciousness observing this body (vessel) interact with the world?

1: What is a process? Is it a concept?

2: What/who is influencing the thought? What is influencing the influence of the thought? See how far you can take this sequence of questions.

3: Where is concsiousness? Can you put your finger on it? Where does it start and end?


The logos is truth oriented to love, and love is the desire for being to flourish.

Jordan B Peterson

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16 minutes ago, Spacious said:

1: What is a process? Is it a concept?

Thought is an actual process. It’s an actuality taking place within the brain cells. It is a fact that thought works in a process. 

16 minutes ago, Spacious said:

2: What/who is influencing the thought?

This is a great question. 

 

Edited by Faceless

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52 minutes ago, Faceless said:

It is a fact that thought works in a process.

If the question was, what is a thought, but this is the processing of observing thoughts. What is the process of observing thoughts? Is that a thought? Is it a concept? What's the difference?


The logos is truth oriented to love, and love is the desire for being to flourish.

Jordan B Peterson

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5 minutes ago, Spacious said:

Is that a thought?

Ah great question 👍🏻

What do you think? 

Do we agree that thought is the response of memory through knowledge/experience?

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31 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Do we agree that thought is the response of memory through knowledge/experience?

We do, which would mean we agree that thought, process and concept are indistinguishable.


The logos is truth oriented to love, and love is the desire for being to flourish.

Jordan B Peterson

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54 minutes ago, Spacious said:

What is the process of observing thoughts?

If thought is observing itself then it is observing itself according to its content, you see that?

Which means there will be contradiction. Right?  Not really observing at all. In that it escapes the actuality and projects abstractions in the place of the fact. Which then creates this conflict of thinking. 

Edited by Faceless

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28 minutes ago, Faceless said:

If thought is observing itself then it is observing itself according to its content, you see that?

A conceptualisation of observing a thought, sure. It is to be lost in thought. It is not awareness, it is content within awareness. 

I wouldn't call it a contradiction, just another frame which stands in the way of awareness.


The logos is truth oriented to love, and love is the desire for being to flourish.

Jordan B Peterson

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6 minutes ago, Spacious said:

A conceptualisation of observing a thought, sure. It is to be lost in thought. It is not awareness, it is content within awareness. 

 

I think this is what I mean by conditioned consciousness. 

6 minutes ago, Spacious said:

I wouldn't call it a contradiction, just another frame which stands in the way of awareness.

Right. So what I’m implying here is, if we are not aware of that “standing in the way of content/conditioned movement ”, we will project that content as being “AWARENESS” itself. 

Or we will just live in conflict. We will be creating fear by desire unknowingly pursuing pleasure, gratification, and so on. All the troubles that thought/self creates.

As the tilte of this thread is suggesting.

Edited by Faceless

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1 hour ago, Faceless said:

Or we will just live in conflict.

By this you mean duality, division, I see.

I think we are on the same page, with the exception of our language choice.


The logos is truth oriented to love, and love is the desire for being to flourish.

Jordan B Peterson

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30 minutes ago, Spacious said:

By this you mean duality, division, I see.

I think we are on the same page, with the exception of our language choice.

Yes

what I mean by duality is any action taken in accordance to that accumulation of thought/self. I’m speaking psychologically of course. 

All that implies duality. Therefore always a movement of fear, contradiction, conflict

Edited by Faceless

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15 hours ago, Cammy said:

Where it becomes unclear for me:

  • Is the process of observing thoughts in itself direct experience?
  • Can I influence thoughts or does free will not exist? 
  • Am I just pure consciousness observing this body (vessel) interact with the world?

1. Direct experience does not have to be worldless or empty of thoughts. If not, then we wouldn’t be able to give estimations of what direct experience is through words. Removing thought allows us to see direct experience better, but it’s possible to see it without it. Direct experience with thoughts is like putting dotted lines between two places — where we’re conscious that separating ideas into duality is just a helpful tool to communicate, and not reality. This in contrast to places being separated by bold lines — where we’re not conscious on how these places are not truly separate.

2. Who is influencing the thoughts? Who has freewill? There is free will and the thoughts are emergencing from somewhere, but where is it emerging from?

3. In a sense, yes, but I can’t prove that to you. You’d have to find yourself deeper into self inquiry to be able to have insights like these shown to you. Leo explains this in his recent video about intelligence — where it’s possible to be able to gather knowledge from an “infinite intelligence”, but I sense you’re not ready for this yet. Just keep going and you’ll see for yourself.


“The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.” 
― Socrates

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On 10/06/2018 at 5:52 PM, Spacious said:

 

2: What/who is influencing the thought? What is influencing the influence of the thought? See how far you can take this sequence of questions.

Yes I can understand this! Another level which just opens up more doors...

Edited by Cammy

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17 hours ago, WaterfallMachine said:

 

3. In a sense, yes, but I can’t prove that to you. You’d have to find yourself deeper into self inquiry to be able to have insights like these shown to you. Leo explains this in his recent video about intelligence — where it’s possible to be able to gather knowledge from an “infinite intelligence”, but I sense you’re not ready for this yet. Just keep going and you’ll see for yourself.

No I am not friend. Baby steps for me!

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