Spiral

A Crush?

47 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

I think this advice is good in general, but likely won't be possible for many of the people who comment in this section of the forum from where they currently are. Most people on here have a lot of pain relative to interactions with the opposite gender for a number of reasons. And specifically, most of the guys on here also have a strong resistance to their feminine side because of social pressure to fit the masculine mold. So, there becomes a negative association with others who display femininity too... men and women. This repression also compounds any other issues they may be dealing with.

There is also a strong limiting belief that sexual desirability/success is equated with personal worth in an absolute way. So, the coping mechanism becomes to see the opposite gender in a really reductive, two-dimensional way and to objectify the situation by listing pluses and minuses in the same way one might considering purchasing a vehicle. This "weighing the pros and cons- quantitative thinking" happens in lieu of the ability to access their emotions and intuition which are an aspect of the feminine side that is repressed. This objectification also happens because they have created many defenses against getting hurt and protecting themselves against seeming inferior in some way.

So, what I take from your post is that you pick up on the strong vibe of objectification and failure to see the humanity in other people. And it is truly a really 'yucky' vibe to read it as a person who isn't mired in this pattern and most especially as a woman who can relate to being seen through this lens before. It feels really dismal and salts many of my own wounds relative to relationships. My automatic reaction is to want to say "shame on you." But this isn't helpful. This (likely unconscious) dehumanization and objectification helps them compensate for feeling inferior and out of control in a romantic situation (and thus their litmus test to determine their worth) by thinking and believing in such a way that gives a sense of control and power. So, admonishing someone for these types of issues and viewpoints, will feel to them like you're trying to take away what little refuge they have from pain and low self-worth. They will perceive it as you trying to snatch away their only life raft.

So, my advice to them instead would be to first drop their resistance to their feminine side within themselves and to come to appreciate the parts of themselves that they believe might make them less worthwhile. And also to recognize the desire to to so by recognizing the projection that happens onto their "objects" of desire. Then to begin to see unconditional love as valuable and possible. Then, once they get to that point, empathy and putting themselves in the other's shoes will become possible.

Very well said @Emerald , thank you for putting it into a better approach. I appreciate your work, and I respect your efforts a lot. I've just watched your shadow video and I found it very helpful and efficient.

I have this question for you, these guys have a Emerald to reach and to be educated & cured by. What about the ones they interacted thus most likely they damaged? For example, what would you do when you see your kids tending to harm others?

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20 minutes ago, Sevi said:

Very well said @Emerald , thank you for putting it into a better approach. I appreciate your work, and I respect your efforts a lot. I've just watched your shadow video and I found it very helpful and efficient.

I have this question for you, these guys have a Emerald to reach and to be educated & cured by. What about the ones they interacted thus most likely they damaged? For example, what would you do when you see your kids tending to harm others?

Thank you. :) I'm glad you liked the video.

As for your question, the thing that I can do for someone in this context, which is very limited, is to help them discover and work out their limiting beliefs in a very accepting kind of way. That way they can explore themselves without having to feel judged about anything. And I usually try to give my perspective as a woman, what my psychological experience of their actions would be. So, because most people do genuinely mean well, I think this will help mitigate a lot of the harmful behaviors. The harmful behaviors stem mostly from mis-understanding and a feeling that they themselves are the extreme under-dog in the situation, even though it isn't true. So, they come to see women as being the aggressor who is the arbiter of their self-worth or lack thereof, either consciously or unconsciously. But this simply stems from a mix of social conditioning and not being aware of how women's mating behaviors and feelings differ from that of men's. So, that is why there is often a combative attitude from men toward women because it's used as a form of self-protection because they perceive women as being up on a pedestal. And this is echoed in popular culture as well. But it's a projection and a misconception. So, just getting someone to see that they're projecting, removes some of the barriers to awareness. And it enables people to just see the opposite sex as people who have flaws just like them. It also ideally helps them feel more secure in romantic situations where they're just able to see a person as a whole person. But if a person has not developed the ability to see a person beyond projections, then this will not be possible and the projection will likely be a negative one that seems very powerful against them.

But as far as my kids go, the main thing is just to not teach them the negative beliefs or expose them to popular culture that will cement those beliefs in them. If I'm talking to adults, I'm trying to help them unwire a problem. But if I'm talking to my kids, the challenge is to prevent the problem from happening. And just teaching them age-appropriate emotional awareness as they grow up.

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On 2017-10-11 at 11:25 PM, Emerald said:

It's okay to decide not to hang out with people for practical reasons. But if you find yourself judging without a practical reason or on a regular basis beyond what's necessary for practical functioning, then you'll want to look at it. Like, if you're talking to people and you automatically start scrutinizing them by your personal metrics, then you'll really want to become aware of that tendency. Also, there's a difference between "I don't think this person would be good to have in my life." and "This person is a low quality person." One is simply for practical purposes. The other is a condemnation of the person's character and value because of your perception of their weaknesses. The latter will definitely splash back on you and have a very negative effect on your self esteem. This is because, if you write off the value of another human being for their weaknesses, then you will definitely write off your own value every time you fail to meet your own standards. And this will likely be fairly often if you're someone with high standards. So, it gives you the option of either 1. dimming your awareness to your perceived imperfections and repressing those parts of yourself. 2. feeling terrible about yourself.

So, the main thing is simply to watch yourself mindfully as you make judgments. Don't force yourself to stop. But notice honestly whether you believe your judgment means anything real about someone's value. And then, you can find the judgments that you take most seriously, and try to find the repressed traits in yourself that relate back to that particular judgment.

Well for instance if I meet a girl and after a while I find out she is smoking tobacco/weed regularly.(I don't at all)

If my intention is simply friendship i'll think:

  • "oh well that's unfortunate but, it not a big deal, it won't not hurt our friendship"

But if it a potential partner I would think

  • "That kind of behavior is not what i'm look for in a girlfriend, not to mention all the health issues".

Now let's say she is rude to other people(not me), even when unprovoked. i'll be like: "I don't like that and it's really unattractive but I suppose it could work anyway" 

If someone does not respect my time by constantly being late or taking days to respond to a simple text, I also tend to get annoyed. Girls who make fun at others expense or have drinking problems are out.

Every girls I've found attractive within the last 3 years have all had at least had one of the mentioned character traits or been taken. My ex did not, but never fell in love with her. I got "anxious" when we broke up. Not really sad but had a difficulty sitting still for ~ two weeks.

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You can't be enlightened, no one can.;)

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6 hours ago, Spiral said:

Well for instance if I meet a girl and after a while I find out she is smoking tobacco/weed regularly.(I don't at all)

If my intention is simply friendship i'll think:

  • "oh well that's unfortunate but, it not a big deal, it won't not hurt our friendship"

But if it a potential partner I would think

  • "That kind of behavior is not what i'm look for in a girlfriend, not to mention all the health issues".

Now let's say she is rude to other people(not me), even when unprovoked. i'll be like: "I don't like that and it's really unattractive but I suppose it could work anyway" 

If someone does not respect my time by constantly being late or taking days to respond to a simple text, I also tend to get annoyed. Girls who make fun at others expense or have drinking problems are out.

Every girls I've found attractive within the last 3 years have all had at least had one of the mentioned character traits or been taken. My ex did not, but never fell in love with her. I got "anxious" when we broke up. Not really sad but had a difficulty sitting still for ~ two weeks.

I have rules for what I want in my life too. So, if a person engages in activities that I don't want in my life, I'm unlikely to spend time with them outside of very controlled settings. I can't have anything illegal around me or dangerous because I have kids. I don't want any negative influences for them. So, there is nothing wrong with enforcing those boundaries. And it's even okay to be strict about them. The main thing is to watch out for subtle judgments of a person's worth relative to your own. These judgments are often semi-unconscious because people tend not to like to think of themselves as judgmental.

But it sounds like you might be attracted to girls who do things that don't jibe with your intended lifestyle. Sometimes, this can indicate an attraction point in yourself where you become attracted to certain dysfunctions in other people. Sometimes this can have to do with low self-esteem and feeling like you're only worth being with someone with issues. Or it can just be an attraction to a repressed part of yourself. Or another possibility is simply that you don't know anyone personally that doesn't have those traits. Which would you say, if any, describes you?

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10 hours ago, Emerald said:

I have rules for what I want in my life too. So, if a person engages in activities that I don't want in my life, I'm unlikely to spend time with them outside of very controlled settings. I can't have anything illegal around me or dangerous because I have kids. I don't want any negative influences for them. So, there is nothing wrong with enforcing those boundaries. And it's even okay to be strict about them. The main thing is to watch out for subtle judgments of a person's worth relative to your own. These judgments are often semi-unconscious because people tend not to like to think of themselves as judgmental.

But it sounds like you might be attracted to girls who do things that don't jibe with your intended lifestyle. Sometimes, this can indicate an attraction point in yourself where you become attracted to certain dysfunctions in other people. Sometimes this can have to do with low self-esteem and feeling like you're only worth being with someone with issues. Or it can just be an attraction to a repressed part of yourself. Or another possibility is simply that you don't know anyone personally that doesn't have those traits. Which would you say, if any, describes you?

I don't know for me it feels like most people that I meet are like this, we are all in your early 20's, student parties and weed-smoking is the norm around here. A lot of the times people aren't even aware that they are hurtful, or they don't think before they speak.

Now I wish I could say that looks don't matter to me, but that's not the case.  I'm not attracted to most people in general, adding character traits just makes it more complicated. Perhaps I'm spoiled. But it not like I focus on peoples flaws, I just don't feel any attraction towards them.

One think I do judge are people like this(googled it):

 67068.jpg

This is really unappealing to me, yet I can imagine "normal" guys won't care.

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You can't be enlightened, no one can.;)

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9 hours ago, Spiral said:

I don't know for me it feels like most people that I meet are like this, we are all in your early 20's, student parties and weed-smoking is the norm around here. A lot of the times people aren't even aware that they are hurtful, or they don't think before they speak.

Now I wish I could say that looks don't matter to me, but that's not the case.  I'm not attracted to most people in general, adding character traits just makes it more complicated. Perhaps I'm spoiled. But it not like I focus on peoples flaws, I just don't feel any attraction towards them.

One think I do judge are people like this(googled it):

This is really unappealing to me, yet I can imagine "normal" guys won't care.

I was never attracted to people who were into that lifestyle too, even when I was in my teens and early twenties. So, I've never found anyone who is into that lifestyle very attractive: male or female. This is true even if I think they are good looking on the outside. I think this is because, with a lot of people who are into this lifestyle, their range of emotions is very narrow. I feel very strong, single-pointed emotions toward any guy that I come to be infatuated with. And I have a lot of passion, romantically and in other contexts. So, if a guy is really promiscuous to the point where he can't feel deep attractions toward a particular woman and he's numb or undeveloped to the point where he can't feel strong/deep emotions in general, then I think my subconscious/intuition sort of auto-sorts that guy away from my sphere of potential mates. This is just because I know that he probably won't be able to provide me with the emotions that I want to feel in a relationship because he doesn't have the range of emotions to meet me in my experience, romantically or in other contexts.

So, it isn't weird to find people unattractive whose lifestyle doesn't resonate with you or whose personality is unsatisfying to be around for you. If I was only ever around people who engaged in that sort of lifestyle then I might find myself in a situation where I didn't have any strong feelings toward anyone. So, my advice is to try to find someone whose personality resonates with your own that you have congruence with. Then, it may be possible for you to experience strong attractions every once and a while when a woman comes along who you have chemistry with. But trying hoping to feel deep emotions toward someone who is presently incapable of feeling deep emotions in themselves, is unlikely to work. And if it does work, you'll find yourself hurt because their lack of emotional awareness will make them aloof and non-empathetic toward all aspects of life, including you.

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