chasing

[Olaf]

@Lyubov of course, best if you happened to meet each other spontaneously, like the typical "I bumped into her and coffee fell over her shirt, then I realised she is the love of my life" movie-type scenario. In a romantic movie they always happened to meet each other by accident or whatever.

What is kind of genius about Mystery is that his first set is a cold approach where he gets 2 girls: then, in the second set he approaches with those two girls, which is him having massive social proof and being very non-needy, as he already has two women with him, which is of course much better than going up to someone alone.

The thing is that if you let your life depend on "accidental" moments where you happen to meet some cute girl, your chances will become much much smaller, even dating apps are terrible unless you are a good-looking fellow, because it is all based on looks.

Cold dm actually works allright, I do it sometimes when I am in state, I come up with the best opening lines for Instagram DMs. Probably best is to make it feel more accidental and spontaneous than actually recreating a movie scene with spilling coffee on eachother hahaha.

[Lyubov]

1 hour ago, Olaf said:

@Lyubov of course, best if you happened to meet each other spontaneously, like the typical "I bumped into her and coffee fell over her shirt, then I realised she is the love of my life" movie-type scenario. In a romantic movie they always happened to meet each other by accident or whatever.

What is kind of genius about Mystery is that his first set is a cold approach where he gets 2 girls: then, in the second set he approaches with those two girls, which is him having massive social proof and being very non-needy, as he already has two women with him, which is of course much better than going up to someone alone.

The thing is that if you let your life depend on "accidental" moments where you happen to meet some cute girl, your chances will become much much smaller, even dating apps are terrible unless you are a good-looking fellow, because it is all based on looks.

Cold dm actually works allright, I do it sometimes when I am in state, I come up with the best opening lines for Instagram DMs. Probably best is to make it feel more accidental and spontaneous than actually recreating a movie scene with spilling coffee on eachother hahaha.

When I said certain guys don't need to approach I didn't mean to say leaving it entirely up to chance or accident. I distinguish between "approaching" (PUA vocab) and what attuned attractive and in flow guys do which is just... socialize, they have a vibe to them. it's really plain as day when you can see a guy "approach" vs just being a chill guy going with the flow which may include starting a conversation sometimes or saying the first word, it may even be a bit direct, but there is a difference between this and "approaching." Guys who are practicing PUA approach. Guys who have game do not approach, they flow. But none of that is by accident. It is a subtler skill. You should be able to tell in 15 minutes just by sharing space with a girl (not even saying much of anything) if you are in the fuckzone or not. It's usually plain as day once you can read body language, eye contact, etc. It can be a bit more ambiguous and a bit harder with some girls but tbh it rarely is, a lot of guys just don't realize how average they are so they have to drill a bunch of "approaches" and they get a ton of NOs from girls that do not see them in their league. You rarely see a tard pull some unbelievable babe. Flukes are exceptionally uncommon (ONS of them do sometimes happen when alcohol / drugs are involved). There is unseen momentum where most guys have a hidden batting average they gotta be honest with themselves about and reflect on what's keeping them from ascending. 

Edited Wednesday at 05:31 PM by Lyubov

[something_else]

2 hours ago, Olaf said:

@something_else Basically your saying, don´t let her chase you, increase your value by social proof. Which means your whole relationship is dependent on other girls wanting you as soon as that is gone, she is gone. This doesn´t sound healthy either.

Responding to @Valach too

If a girl knows that you’re attractive to other women and yet you make it clear you chose her, and you love her, then there is nothing unhealthy about that. Unless you’re putting on an act and you’re planning to cheat on her.

The “attractive to other women” part just puts you in a position where you can express that love very directly without any risk of it coming across as needy.

It’s not social proof. I’m not saying you should actively hit on other women while you’re in a long term relationship to prove to your girlfriend that you’re attractive to women. The example I gave is social proof, to be fair. But that’s not the core point I’m making. The core point is about overall attractiveness, one component of which is social proof.

 

Edited Wednesday at 05:42 PM by something_else

[Valach]

Just now, something_else said:

Responding to @Valach too

If a girl knows that you’re attractive to other women and yet you make it clear you chose her, and you love her, then there is nothing unhealthy about that. Unless you’re putting on an act and you’re planning to cheat on her.

The “attractive to other women” part just puts you in a position where you can express that love very directly without any risk of it coming across as needy.

It’s not social proof. I’m not saying you should actively hit on other women while you’re in a long term relationship to prove to your girlfriend that you’re attractive to women. The example I gave is social proof, to be fair. But that’s not the core point I’m making. The core point is about overall attractiveness, one component of which is social proof.

 

I think you missunderstood me. I am questioning how healthy the dynamic of desiring a socially valuable person is in the first place. I am not disputing that it "works"

[something_else]

8 minutes ago, Valach said:

I think you missunderstood me. I am questioning how healthy the dynamic of desiring a socially valuable person is in the first place. I am not disputing that it "works"

Ah ok, my bad  If someone has an anxious attachment style it probably isn’t a great idea.

But I’m arguing for what I think is one of the healthier relationship dynamics, which assumes both people are fairly secure in attachment style.

[Valach]

1 minute ago, something_else said:

Ah ok, my bad  If someone has an anxious attachment style it probably isn’t a great idea.

But I’m arguing for what I think is one of the healthier relationship dynamics, which assumes both people are fairly secure in attachment style.

Of course, I am in agreement with that. But it does not require to have "options" or to be socially valuable.

Edited Wednesday at 05:57 PM by Valach

[Olaf]

@Lyubov you sound like you are leading with looks rather than with game. There is something to being in state by being social, that is what I do all the time, but then you talking about looks and how in the first seconds you will know if she wants to fuck you, which is again leading with looks, you basically agreeing with looksmaxing over using game. If looks is your way to go, then I don´t feel we have a constructive discussion here, if you are open to see that game-flow state-frame can work, then we can have a productive conversation: otherwise you have to talk to cavicular on how to do looksmaxing. I don´t support that idea. 

[Lyubov]

55 minutes ago, Olaf said:

@Lyubov you sound like you are leading with looks rather than with game. There is something to being in state by being social, that is what I do all the time, but then you talking about looks and how in the first seconds you will know if she wants to fuck you, which is again leading with looks, you basically agreeing with looksmaxing over using game. If looks is your way to go, then I don´t feel we have a constructive discussion here, if you are open to see that game-flow state-frame can work, then we can have a productive conversation: otherwise you have to talk to cavicular on how to do looksmaxing. I don´t support that idea. 

I’m leading with flow (my words) which isn’t just some “yeah dude it’s all in the mind thing.” Flow is earned. It takes into account hard truths and really deeply observing the field. I account for determinism in my perspective because I’ve been around long enough and been with enough women to go full circle and see what ways I’ve deluded myself but also not given myself enough credit. 

You need to be giving your looks and aura and swag and self esteem the most weight, even over your “game.” Looking good and instantly having women show a twinkle in their eye for you will build momentum for pulling 100x more than any game or any sort of approaching.

Do you want to pull the best women in a nigh club and the best looking girls Instagram apart from ones with followers in the tens to hundreds of thousands? You think these girls chase you cause of your game? Bro they chase you cause they aren’t idiots and see that you are a valuable asset in their life and which your looks and aura and swag heavily convey. Peacocks grow feathers for a reason and women are very quick to identify who they wanna fuck. 

The “game” part is salt on food, it’s basically sprinkled on, you aren’t doing anything to get them to chase you, you’re getting out of your own way from fucking it up and chasing them. Getting girl to chase = you stay in flow and stop chasing them. 

Edited Wednesday at 08:52 PM by Lyubov

[Olaf]

@Lyubov I don't play the looks game, the only attention I put on looks is to amplify the vibe, which is swagger clothes and jewlery etc. Be in flow state, which is inner game and then from there you still have to know what you are doing. Cavicular has no game whatsoever and only uses his looks, which to me is just awful to even listen to, I can't even understand how he can go up and say such autistic things like he hasn't been social for a single day in his life. Then he went to Europe and was surprised that these girls were not down for him, just because it works in America doesn't mean it works here lol. Aura/swag/self esteem all comes from getting into flow state which is part of game, Owen is all about this. Then the other dating coaches teach more technical shit, which is useful to combine with it.

[Lyubov]

15 minutes ago, Olaf said:

@Lyubov I don't play the looks game, the only attention I put on looks is to amplify the vibe, which is swagger clothes and jewlery etc. Be in flow state, which is inner game and then from there you still have to know what you are doing. Cavicular has no game whatsoever and only uses his looks, which to me is just awful to even listen to, I can't even understand how he can go up and say such autistic things like he hasn't been social for a single day in his life. Then he went to Europe and was surprised that these girls were not down for him, just because it works in America doesn't mean it works here lol. Aura/swag/self esteem all comes from getting into flow state which is part of game, Owen is all about this. Then the other dating coaches teach more technical shit, which is useful to combine with it.

I didn’t mention clavicular and I don’t think my school of thought is adjacent enough to him to illicit his name as if they are the same or similar to what I’m saying. As if this guy is the name you call upon jsut because someone mentions that your raw looks is one part of building up flow. 

But even he pulls a lot and I’m sure he pulls some pretty good looking girls his age. You don’t need your little game when you have the momentum of your foundation behind you. Game is largely a coping strategy for guys who fall into mediocrity. 

I can’t attest to Owen’s results, I’ve never went out with him and saw only one person  claimed to be his girlfriend so idk if it’s entirely true but she looked alright, but from what I heard here he doesn’t actually get the insane results with women as much as you would think he does. I’m talking like effortless baddies and the top picks, high caliber women, picked up with game. He was marketing a mansion parties approach the last time I saw a video by him which ofc you’re going to have the most swag and look the most comfortable in your own home. You’d have to have some serious blocks in your social skills to not pull a girl from a party you threw at your own mansion. 

it’s difficult to quantify everything, I suppose my stance is loosely in not putting much weight into game as I am your looks your swag and aura and status and lifestyle and self esteem. Do you FEEL attractive? Do you notice women make eyes with you and do an irl right swipe on you when you’re in their vicinity? If not then those girls you approach and waste your energy on will be a no 95% of the time. And the guys getting them don’t need to approach they are basically invited over through body language. 

Edited Wednesday at 09:31 PM by Lyubov

[Olaf]

@Lyubov looks work duhhh. I am just saying I am not playing that game, neither am I interested in that. I am not optimizing looks to get laid, I am building on game that is done by Mystery and Owen who don't have "coping" mechanisms, they have real solid game, look at Owen infield footage, I have his hot seat at home, it is undeniable that looks aren't everything. You can play the looks game, the money game or you can build upon the real game. I don't want men to become looksmaxers and will never stand for that in my life, I wouldn't be suprised if in 2050 guys will start wearing make up to improve their looks and become girls themself.

[Lyubov]

10 minutes ago, Olaf said:

@Lyubov looks work duhhh. I am just saying I am not playing that game, neither am I interested in that. I am not optimizing looks to get laid, I am building on game that is done by Mystery and Owen who don't have "coping" mechanisms, they have real solid game, look at Owen infield footage, I have his hot seat at home, it is undeniable that looks aren't everything. You can play the looks game, the money game or you can build upon the real game. I don't want men to become looksmaxers and will never stand for that in my life, I wouldn't be suprised if in 2050 guys will start wearing make up to improve their looks and become girls themself.

You can cherry pick lots of social interactions and basically set yourself up to look amazing at anything when you’re designing a course. Owen infield is just normal nightlife socializing for an average attuned guy that hasn’t fallen into mediocrity and can occasionally pull. I’m not saying he hasn’t had some good sets. I’m saying that your school of thought is dated and inefficient. Even Owen pivoted hard over to mansion game and lifestyle at least what he was churning out in 2018/19 when IG was really becoming a new norm. You need to be maximizing everything especially what’s valued most where you’re located, different places value different things, doing everything to get your self esteem strong and then make yourself look amazing. It’s a funny term but I actually do like it, if you wanna ascend and be that guy that actually has eyes made at him you need to level up your looks and swag which directly affects your confidence and aura. That or stick to game and enjoy approaching. 

Edited Wednesday at 09:47 PM by Lyubov

[Olaf]

@Lyubov It's all compensation, compensation for the lack of internal confidence, if you derive your confidence from looks, you have 0 understanding what real confidence is, wait till your 40, pff you gonna have a real bad time. You are basically being a beta male trying to dove yourself up just like girls trying to make themself look cute and pretty before they go out. Your hair is a bit messy; omg you might start crying, who messed it up? Here is a tissue. 

[Lyubov]

20 minutes ago, Olaf said:

@Lyubov It's all compensation, compensation for the lack of internal confidence, if you derive your confidence from looks, you have 0 understanding what real confidence is, wait till your 40, pff you gonna have a real bad time. You are basically being a beta male trying to dove yourself up just like girls trying to make themself look cute and pretty before they go out. Your hair is a bit messy; omg you might start crying, who messed it up? Here is a tissue. 

I’m 35 so I’m already quite aware of aging and how it’s affected me, which it definitely has with how I’m noticed when I go out, in fact a lot of what I wrote here has been 15 years of experience and deep contemplation and a lot of insight into what I actually experienced during my pua journey vs the story I laid over it (survivorship bias)

I agree with you that you should be cultivating a confidence that is so thick and blind to what others think that you are always delighted with yourself and optimistic of what’s to come. I don’t disagree here. It’s very empowering to go from a very mediocre depressed guy who doesn’t pull to pick up speeches which say you’re already hot and all you need is game to pull a high caliber woman. That was really empowering for me to take action and do the whole game thing ages ago and being delusional like this actually sets into motion a lot of internal changes. 

The funny thing is in hindsight while that played a role in getting me out, it wasn’t my game which got me laid but my swag and authentic self and my general foundation (white, tall, foreign guy, wealthy lifestyle) and confidence which was only mirrored back to me when women looked at me and made eyes with me, which they weren’t evaluating my game, they were checking me out seeing if I’m in their fuckzone or not, like I said women need on my 15 minutes of chatting and being around you to know if you’re in their fuckzone or not. Women evaluate you based on a combination of your looks, style, swag, height, quick personality traits, how authentic you appear and how in tune you are with their subcommunications. 
 

Edited Wednesday at 10:17 PM by Lyubov