My Latest Insights on Dating & Game (TRIGGER WARNING)

[StaraX]

Not long ago, I posted a thread titled "Women are attracted to relativity" where I specifically pointed out that "women there are evaluating me in comparison to other men" and shared my experience. Well, not too many people liked it. 😄

[Zenterus]

2 hours ago, StaraX said:

Not long ago, I posted a thread titled "Women are attracted to relativity" where I specifically pointed out that "women there are evaluating me in comparison to other men" and shared my experience. Well, not too many people liked it. 😄

I remember that thread and I mostly agree with what you said on the initial posting. Where I disagree is that men's attraction is not relational. It actually is. Russian girls are, by most, considered very attractive women, especially when you encounter one outside of Russia. However, if you go to Russia where all women look like that, all of a sudden one of them doesn't seem that much more attractive in comparison. If you're used to being around 10s then when you look at a girl that's a 7, you clearly view her as unattractive (in looks). But if you go to a country where most girls are 6s and then you encounter a 7, she almost looks like a 10 in comparison! All attraction is relational.

[Miguel1]

18 hours ago, Zenterus said:

If you're used to being around 10s then when you look at a girl that's a 7, you clearly view her as unattractive (in looks).

Story of my life, now also top that with consciousness and maturity. My ex gf of 5 years was a solid 8.5-9, and was relatively conscious and deep into spirituality.

Edited August 26 by Miguel1

[Olaf]

@Zenterus Of course night game is easier, because people are drunk and having fun and literally are THERE to socialise. During the day you basically bother someone who is either trying to just do some groceries or go to work. That is why evenings work well for day game even tho it is more quiet; people have less things to do and are strolling around.

Yet if I think of my future partner, I don´t want her to go to a club, not because she is forbidden to go there lol. But because she wouldn´t fit into my lifestyle, she wouldn´t be drinking alcohol and get wasted, while I am being sober and live a sober lifestyle. The least I expect of her is to do the same. So I don´t take these girls even seriously. I don´t even go out to a club seriously, I just go to have fun and socialise. I never take any girl at night seriously or consider them as a future partner, they are all fun, but not partner-worthy in my opinion. And that is also why they are easier.

If you want something special, it is harder to get, aka day game. I have to admit there are terrible places to do daygame; you have to go to the busiest area or a central place in your country where all the train traffic goes to, we have such a spot in the Netherlands and it is a gold mine compared to all the other places in the Netherlands that I tried. My wingmen and I might only get 4 numbers in a session, but it will be more worth it to me, than a club.

I want to be more creative with places, I am thinking that festivals might be a super cool place, as those girls seem to be much better than the club girls. I have already tried in supermarkets, shops, bookstores and libraries, all of these are fine places. Also you can literally chat up people sitting at a cafe during the day, I do magic so it is easier for me to chat them up and show a trick. Actually, cafes during the day are an underestimated place to meet girls, they have nothing to do and unless they are in a deep convo, many are open to talk for 15-20 mins or so. 

Lastly I would say you have to do day game with a wing, you have to. Because you are not gonna be in a social state otherwise; you will have too many breaks in between the approaches. It might takes sometime before you find the girl you want to approach, unless you have very low standards or have a very common type of girl that you are interested in, I still do that in the beginning to build state, but after that I look for what I want. During the night out you can socialise with everyone and don't need a wing per say, I make friends with tons of guys during the night and they literally feel my energy and hug me, high five me, offer me food everything. Because at night it is a fun time and time to go crazy.

Edited August 25 by Olaf

[Emerald]

On 8/24/2026 at 7:58 AM, Zenterus said:

@Emerald Exactly. Although, if all you're looking for as a man is to get laid, then go nuts. I'm speaking from the perspective of wanting to attract  high quality partner, which I believe you are as well.

Yes, pick-up definitely works for getting laid more.

But the qualities that get a man laid more in the short-term can tend to be a turn-off for longer term partners and women who are more discerning and who are a better fit.

I'm going to use a bunch of sales metaphors to describe the situation...

Pick-up is kind of like a spammy numbers-game of doing a massive amount of cold approaches towards a very broad and unspecific ideal client avatar and a very flexible value proposition (offering whatever value proposition you can think of to win over the women you're interacting with at the moment).

And it gets observable results... like numbers, dates, and sex.

And it's like the same sales tactics that beginning business owners use to try to get leads before they've built a well-known brand identity.... and before they've gotten clear on their value proposition or Ideal Client Avatar.

And a man who gets the results that way might come to believe in a general sense... "Yay! I succeeded at making myself more attractive to women."

But that man really just added more women to the top of his "sexual sales funnel" by approaching more women. 

And it doesn't actually mean that the product he's selling (himself) got better or more attractive in the eyes of the mass market of women. It's just that a certain percentage of women would have been receptive to him the whole entire time.... either because they're attracted to him specifically or they're just a bit boy-crazy or seeking male validation or have poor boundaries.

And now, he's actually approaching them during the numbers game.

And in this case, he's just conflating top-of-the-funnel improvements and middle/bottom-of-the funnel improvements. So, he wasn't tracking the right metrics to understand his success.

In fact, he may have had to degrade the product (himself) a bit to get a more general audience of women into the top of the funnel... especially if he doesn't have a very specific ICA that fits the value that he authentically has to offer.

If I liken it to mass marketing and niche marketing... where there's the mass market drink like Coca-Cola but then there are niche market drinks like a specific but obscure brand of passion-fruit juice.

Every guy in pick-up is trying to be off-brand Coca Cola as that's what's optimized in the number game... instead of developing himself as he is and owning his essence as an obscure passion-fruit drink that's strongly appreciated in niche markets but not paid attention to in the mass market.

So, he may attract numbers of women who are willing to drink off-brand Coca Cola if he's a decent enough imitation of actual Coca Cola. (Actual Coca Cola in this sense are crowd-pleasing but bland guys who most women would consider reasonably attractive)

But these off-brand Coke drinkers probably aren't very passionate about the off-brand Coke. 

Instead, he would be a lot more interesting, impressive, and attractive if he stopped trying to be off-brand Coca Cola and just leaned into his natural niche... and leaned into being the obscure passion-fruit juice.

It just won't invite as many women into the top of the funnel. Most women won't be interested in that kind of drink. 

But the conversion rate will be much higher in the middle and bottom of the funnel. And the buyers will be much more aligned with him and into him for him.

And the issue with niche market guys trying to market themselves as mass market guys, is that they probably will get sexual success pretending to be a mass market guy. And he's dull himself out (and make himself less attractive) because it gets him laid more.

[Emerald]

On 8/24/2026 at 2:07 PM, Rishabh R said:

@Emerald You're insights are great . I mean I fell into this trap of pickup or per say being a player in order to get a girlfriend. My main issue wasn't that I wanted a girlfriend but I was jealous of girls having relationships even though I am a man. This happened to me in college. I had a terrible dating life in college or say no dating life . My batchmates were going from relationship to relationship. Also the relationships of which I was envious none of them lasted. 

Also I failed to take this insight seriously that I was already vulnerable.

And yup a few girls were attracted to me. 

While performance based pickup can get you girls but honestly vulnerability can lose you girls who are not good for you.

Most guys choose the performance based pickup . But the latter is kernel of wisdom and fulfillment even though it can get you no dates or relationship.

Thank you! 

I've noticed that it's common for these kinds of concerns to come up, as the social narratives can add shame and pressure to men to "be the ladies man" or "You need to have more experience."

So, men are shamed for "lacking experience". And even when a man has had a couple relationships or romantic experiences, there can still be pressure to ramp up the numbers.

Then, there's the dynamic where women are often being pursued... and tend to more easily end up having experiences and relationships as a result. And women are shamed for having experience.

So, that can create tension and conflict in relationships where the partners feel ashamed in either direction. 

But what I'd say is that... from my perspective when I was younger and dating, I never cared much about a man's level of experience or number of partners/relationships. My focus was always towards vibes, personality qualities, and deal breakers. 

And if a guy had a much higher number of sexual partners or relationships, I would tend to see that as a sign of incompatibility and potentially un-seriousness about the connection... like he wouldn't actually care that much about intimacy with me, because it's become about numbers rather than a mutual sharing of an intimate experience.

So, most of my partners over the years have had just a handful of relationships and sexual partners. And that has tended to read as more of a green flag, if I feel that's coming from him being more sexually reserved, more selective, more serious about longterm partnership, and tending less towards sexual boundary-stepping with women which can be somewhat common with men who don't have any scruples about making first moves.

[Zenterus]

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

Pick-up is kind of like a spammy numbers-game of doing a massive amount of cold approaches towards a very broad and unspecific ideal client avatar and a very flexible value proposition (offering whatever value proposition you can think of to win over the women you're interacting with at the moment).

And it gets observable results... like numbers, dates, and sex.

And it's like the same sales tactics that beginning business owners use to try to get leads before they've built a well-known brand identity.... and before they've gotten clear on their value proposition or Ideal Client Avatar.

And a man who gets the results that way might come to believe in a general sense... "Yay! I succeeded at making myself more attractive to women."

But that man really just added more women to the top of his "sexual sales funnel" by approaching more women. 

And it doesn't actually mean that the product he's selling (himself) got better or more attractive in the eyes of the mass market of women. It's just that a certain percentage of women would have been receptive to him the whole entire time.... either because they're attracted to him specifically or they're just a bit boy-crazy or seeking male validation or have poor boundaries.

I agree with the overall message of your response but I disagree with this part. Pick up absolutely teaches you to be more attractive and lean into your niche. That's the only way it can work. Viewing it as a number's game is a gross oversimplification of it. No woman would be down to date and sleep with a random guy who she doesn't find attractive and who she doesn't feel some kind of strong magnetic pull to. Pick up teaches you that. It teaches you about female psychology and how to influence it to your advantage, it teaches you about manipulating social dynamics in your favour, it teaches you about personal development, fashion, being more grounded, more masculine, less reactive, more expressive, having a strong frame and, most importantly, how to polarize women with your unique personality in order to filter out the ones that are truly down vs those that aren't. I've never dated a girl who I didn't have things in common with. It can't work that way. You're conflating how women would go about picking up guys with how men have to go about it. 

Yes, as you get more experienced and more mature in the game of love, you do start to lean more and more into your own niche and want to get more specific about the women you are meeting because, at this point, you have a very solid idea of the type of man that you are and the type of women that would resonate with you and become much more intentional with finding those exact archetypes of women. That means joining communities, going to specific events, making friends within your niche, etc. But I wouldn't be where I currently am without pickup. I'm fun, expressive, have strong boundaries and a strong personality, have a lot of leadership qualities as well and I'm very grounded within myself. Those are all traits that I developed through pickup. It's not just about spam approaching.

Edited August 26 by Zenterus