Dating One Person At Once vs Multiple - Before Commitment

[Miguel1]

3 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Dating more than one person isnt keeping it superficial. Please I implore you! This frame is shooting you in the foot! 

How do you know if you want to invest in something? 

You start small. Small talk. Throw out some low risk pennies. Keep talking - oh hey! That person gave me a penny back... Maybe it's with investing a dollar... Let's see where that goes. Wow they gave me two bucks in return!

Over time youl earn this person is really worth investing more into. Then you jump in and go exclusive. Stock market full force pink sheets investment 😁

I don't think we understand dating is the method to establish if it's worth investing.

You don't just invest a million when you have no fucking idea what the hell you are investing into!

How many times have I said in this thread, that focusing on getting to know one person, does not mean full commitment?

[Miguel1]

1 minute ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

That's not the right question - the right question is HOW do you know? 

By finding out.

The real question is: HOW do you find out asap, so you don’t waste a shit ton of your time with the wrong people?

[Xonas Pitfall]

To me, this sounds like you should just go on more dates until you find your person.

I think people were mostly just worried and warning you not to accidentally dismiss someone because of your own judgment, impatience, or expectations about how the first few dates are "supposed to" go.

Most dating issues, honestly, come down to these questions:

“What kind of partner do I want? What kind of partner would they want? Am I that person? If not, why not? Am I looking in places where I can actually find this person? Am I giving off the signals that I’m the kind of person they’re looking for? How many dates am I actually going on?”

If you can answer these honestly with yourself, you’ll find the blind spots you should work on.

[Miguel1]

13 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

To me, this sounds like you should just go on more dates until you find your person.

I think people were mostly just worried and warning you not to accidentally dismiss someone because of your own judgment, impatience, or expectations about how the first few dates are "supposed to" go.

Most dating issues, honestly, come down to these questions:

“What kind of partner do I want? What kind of partner would they want? Am I that person? If not, why not? Am I looking in places where I can actually find this person? Am I giving off the signals that I’m the kind of person they’re looking for? How many dates am I actually going on?”

If you can answer these honestly with yourself, you’ll find the blind spots you should work on.

What?

I am literally advocating on getting to know one person at a time, so you can fully focus on them and get to know them properly, rather than dividing your focus, attention and seriousness on multiple people.

I am not expecting some magical, instant high-level chemistry and butterflies.

Obviously you need to go through initial screening before deciding to focus on just that person.

I’ll give you a concrete example in my life:

Say I haven’t been dating anyone for a while and I am starting again. During the first week of approaching people, I’ll probably get around 3-5 people (depending on how much time I have to approach) that I wanna get to know better / go on first dates with.

After the first date with the 5, most likely 3-4 will drop out (including flaking, or just us not finding time and it going cold), and with 1 person we decide to keep getting to know each other.

At this point I will still meet new people for dates but if I see a girl for 2-3 dates, it’s time to forget everyone else, and just focus on getting to know her before things end with her, and I’ll start over. Perhaps reach out to some leads I met prior to deciding to only focus on getting to know her.

Edited 3 hours ago by Miguel1

[Xonas Pitfall]

20 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

Say I haven’t been dating anyone for a while and I am starting again. During the first week of approaching people, I’ll probably get around 3-5 people (depending on how much time I have to approach) that I wanna get to know better / go on first dates with.

After the first date with the 5, most likely 3-4 will drop out (including flaking, or just us not finding time and it going cold), and with 1 person we decide to keep getting to know each other.

At this point I will still meet new people for dates but if I see a girl for 2-3 dates, it’s time to forget everyone else, and just focus on getting to know her before things end with her, and I’ll start over. Perhaps reach out to some leads I met prior to deciding to only focus on getting to know her.

Yes, I don’t see anything wrong with this.

Go on lots of dates, focus when something clicks, "has potential", reach out here and there in case a special connection develops, rinse and repeat. I really don’t see anything wrong with that. It’s probably something I’d suggest myself.

It’s totally possible that in some “rounds” you won’t want to reach out to anyone again, while in others there’ll be one or two people you want to focus on.

Again, as I suspected, it’s probably mostly a numbers game. I think maybe some of your posts just came across as a bit restless or impatient in your pursuit, so people reacted negatively to that.

But this example seems reasonable to me.

Edited 3 hours ago by Xonas Pitfall

[Miguel1]

15 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

Again, as I suspected, it’s probably mostly a numbers game. I think maybe some of your posts just came across as a bit restless or impatient in your pursuit, so people reacted negatively to that.

But this example seems reasonable to me.

The PUA paradigm teaches you to date 5-10 girls at once for months and months, before you drop everyone and just focus on one, when she has proved her worth to you.

They call this abundance.

I call it insecurity, and a huge waste of time and energy. I used to do it a lot so I know exactly how much time was wasted, and how I truly felt deep down.

This is what I am mostly speaking against.

Edited 3 hours ago by Miguel1

[Natasha Tori Maru]

46 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

How many times have I said in this thread, that focusing on getting to know one person, does not mean full commitment?

This has nothing to do with what I raised. You are sidestepping.

Quote

I think many of you are making this a much bigger thing in your head than it really is. Watch for projection.

Do you think it is more likely you have an issue with the martyr / holier than thou inner narrative, or the myriad others who have pointed out this narrative you leak out? I can build a case if you want. It keeps coming out of you in many posts. I can go through your previous threads and quote the other users who see this in you, and there's been a few. I can go and quote every time you have reported "only I care". I don't want to trigger you into an egoic state so you don't listen, but there isn't any other way to say it. It's worth really driving into this and not just rejecting it. This narrative is actually blocking you from the deep enquiry you need to do. Notice it is a judgement. If it's a judgement - it's blocking authenticity. It's blocking a feeling you are avoiding. You can't be in judgement and feeling authentic at the same time.

46 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

By finding out.

The real question is: HOW do you find out asap, so you don’t waste a shit ton of your time with the wrong people?

By knowing what you aim for. And trusting yourself you know.

But you don't seem to trust yourself. You don't seem to have a process. A heuristic. Especially if you ask this question. 

Again I return to - do you trust yourself? 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Natasha Tori Maru]

4 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

The PUA paradigm teaches you to date 5-10 girls at once for months and months, before you drop everyone and just focus on one, when she has proved her worth to you.

They call this abundance.

I call it insecurity, and a huge waste of time and energy. I used to do it a lot so I know exactly how much time was wasted, and how I truly felt deep down.

But did PUA tell you what to look for to select for a genuine authentic connection and relationship? Did it teach you how to select for that and how to narrow your search? I think the numbers thing is a red herring here.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

You reject that knowing someone takes time. 

How do you know when you know someone? What markers do you look for? Not feelings. Feelings aren't going to tell you anything other than your limbic brain is being triggered by endorphins. If you can list how you know - like with your example about the girl you spoke to for 5 hours. How do you know you got to depth there? Authentic depth? Knowing beyond just intuition or any feelings?

Edited 3 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Miguel1]

4 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Do you think it is more likely you have an issue with the martyr / holier than thou inner narrative, or the myriad others who have pointed out this narrative you leak out? I can build a case if you want. It keeps coming out of you in many posts. I can go through your previous threads and quote the other users who see this in you, and there's been a few. I can go and quote every time you have reported "only I care". I don't want to trigger you into an egoic state so you don't listen, but there isn't any other way to say it. It's worth really driving into this and not just rejecting it. This narrative is actually blocking you from the deep enquiry you need to do. Notice it is a judgement. If it's a judgement - it's blocking authenticity. It's blocking a feeling you are avoiding. You can't be in judgement and feeling authentic at the same time.

49 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

Of course you can nitpick things.

In a conversation like this where 10 different people are posting at once, you respond whenever you have time (and might have forgotten some details), might be in different emotional state etc etc. A lot of my answers are in the middle of my work days. A lot of times I thought I had more time to answer, but end up having to rush things. And the less obvious ones: when lots of people criticize you (whether they are legit or poor criticism / lack of respect), they will affect your mood. And that will affect my own delivery.

It is bound to lead to lots of misunderstanding.

That’s why I wanted to have a 1 on 1 call with you, and you agreed to it but never showed up, nor got back to me for re-scheduling. To use your signature as an inspiration: it is easier to blame others, than to look at yourself in the mirror.

A proper call would solve most of the misunderstanding, if not all.

- - - - -

As for your trust question: again, it is such a vague question I don’t know how to answer other than there are certain things I trust in myself, and certain things I don’t — and anyone who claims otherwise is full of shit.

[Miguel1]

7 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

But did PUA tell you what to look for to select for a genuine authentic connection and relationship? Did it teach you how to select for that and how to narrow your search? I think the numbers thing is a red herring here.

Oh you mean the things I am pushing right now, since I am trying to deconstruct the PUA paradigm?

[Natasha Tori Maru]

4 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

Of course you can nitpick things.

In a conversation like this where 10 different people are posting at once, you respond whenever you have time (and might have forgotten some details), might be in different emotional state etc etc. A lot of my answers are in the middle of my work days. A lot of times I thought I had more time to answer, but end up having to rush things. And the less obvious ones: when lots of people criticize you (whether they are legit or poor criticism / lack of respect), they will affect your mood. And that will affect my own delivery.

It is bound to lead to lots of misunderstanding.

That’s why I wanted to have a 1 on 1 call with you, and you agreed to it but never showed up, nor got back to me for re-scheduling. To use your signature as an inspiration: it is easier to blame others, than to look at yourself in the mirror.

A proper call would solve most of the misunderstanding, if not all.

- - - - -

As for your trust question: again, it is such a vague question I don’t know how to answer other than there are certain things I trust in myself, and certain things I don’t — and anyone who claims otherwise is full of shit.

Well you profess to do all this inner work but you won't even launch enquiry into these two questions. 

You keep avoiding both of them while they stare you in the face. Instead you judge the questions which as I raised above blocks a feeling. There is something you are avoiding feeling. I dunno what it is but I can't help you if you won't ask yourself the questions.

If I were in your position it would be pen and paper. 2-3 hours of relentless "how what why if when" enquiry.

Edited 2 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Miguel1]

3 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

You reject that knowing someone takes time. 

How do you know when you know someone? What markers do you look for? Not feelings. Feelings aren't going to tell you anything other than your limbic brain is being triggered by endorphins. If you can list how you know - like with your example about the girl you spoke to for 5 hours. How do you know you got to depth there? Authentic depth? Knowing beyond just intuition or any feelings?

I reject that first dates should be about hobbies, news and mainstream pop. Random talks that leads nowhere.

I am surprised this is even rised. Perhaps that’s why we have so much misunderstanding. I expect us to have a certain mutual understanding of what depth, maturity, self-awareness, and integration means — for we are in such a forum, dedicsted deeply to said topics.

Why are you even bringing up feelings? Since when have I implied I am looking for feelings? If anything, I am pushing for raw truth more so than feelings.

[Xonas Pitfall]

3 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I think the numbers thing is a red herring here.

I suppose I just don’t know Miguel well enough.

You’d have to give us information and concrete examples about how you approach the whole thing. How are you judging these girls? What are you talking about, and how are you selecting for them? What is your thought process? What are your expectations? How realistic or unrealistic do you think you’re being? How honest are you being with yourself about what you offer? And where are you even looking for these people? (The classic “looking for a bookworm in a club” problem, for example.)

10 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

The PUA paradigm teaches you to date 5-10 girls at once for months and months, before you drop everyone and just focus on one, when she has proved her worth to you.

This frame of “proving her worth to you” already sounds potentially toxic. If they’re talking about juggling multiple girls, them getting uncertain about your intentions and going out of their way to prove their worth to you somehow, doing favors, etc., seems like a pretty unhealthy dynamic.

I don’t know about these numbers, though. It’s possible you could have 5-10 interesting people you’re talking to, but at least for me, it’s usually pretty clear quickly which few people I’m actually interested in.

But again, I don’t think the specific numbers really matter. If you have 5-10 people you are genuinely interested in talking to, so be it. If at some point there’s only one person you really want to focus on, then focus on them.

I know it’s a really boring answer, but all of these situations could be possible. The goal is to narrow things down and focus, so the quicker you can do that, the better. But there’s also no reason to force yourself either if you just don’t feel a connection with any of them.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

5 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

Oh you mean the things I am pushing right now, since I am trying to deconstruct the PUA paradigm?

Sarcastic condescending rhetoric. I just asked a question for further nuance as it isn't 100% clear to me based on how frequently you switch domains 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

3 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

I reject that first dates should be about hobbies, news and mainstream pop. Random talks that leads nowhere.

I am surprised this is even rised. Perhaps that’s why we have so much misunderstanding. I expect us to have a certain mutual understanding of what depth, maturity, self-awareness, and integration means — for we are in such a forum, dedicsted deeply to said topics.

Why are you even bringing up feelings? Since when have I implied I am looking for feelings? If anything, I am pushing for raw truth more so than feelings.

But all those questions are proxies - they show tone, intonation. Bring out body language. Expression. Spark further conversation into deeper subjects. Neutral small talk is a safe template to begin rapport. Eye contact. What topics they like. You can't avoid small talk. It only leads no where when you fail to see someone's eye twinkle on a topic and question more. Show real interest. 

Don't try to use your rhetoric to put me down like I don't know what depth, maturity and self awareness are. Stop that now.

Feelings are part of your truth. You really want to avoid this topic. 

[Miguel1]

3 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Well you profess to do all this inner work but you won't even launch enquiry into these two questions. 

You keep avoiding both of them while they stare you in the face. Instead you judge the questions which as I raised above blocks a feeling. There is something you are avoiding feeling. I dunno what it is but I can't help you if you won't ask yourself the questions.

If I were in your position it would be pen and paper. 2-3 hours of relentless "how what why if when" enquiry.

If you think I haven’t spend years of my damn life going through my deepest and inner demons, fears, selfishness, self-deceptions and biases, I don’t know what the hell have you been reading, as I have been extremely vulnerable sharing my journey on this forum.

But of course, if you are committed to seeing me as the problem, you will not see anything else, especially yourself as the problem.

I admit I am not happy with my dating and I am trying to fix it, sharing my lessons here, asking for thoughts and open conversation, and overall being vulnerable, yet respectful — but I am faced with accusations of ego and having holier than thou mindset.

What in the world.

Becareful you guys are not living in your mutually created bubble, where Miguel is too egoistical to admit his short-comings.

I have also talked to Aurum on phone recently. In there we seemed to agree, but here he seems to be against me. Hopefully not because it is just popular.

There are people who support me on this, but they are more quiet and do so more via pms. Just becareful guys that when publicly you guys love to gather and go against me together, that it isn’t just bias and a self-defense mechanism to actually look deeper within yourself, and to actually be open to what I have to say.

- - - - -

At the end of the day, I am simply trying to have more honest, truthful, authentic, and vulnerable conversations and connections with people I meet.

I am not claiming that I am Alien God.

[Miguel1]

11 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

This frame of “proving her worth to you” already sounds potentially toxic.

PUA is toxic? Shocking.

[Miguel1]

5 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

But all those questions are proxies - they show tone, intonation. Bring out body language. Expression. Spark further conversation into deeper subjects. Neutral small talk is a safe template to begin rapport. Eye contact. What topics they like. You can't avoid small talk. It only leads no where when you fail to see someone's eye twinkle on a topic and question more. Show real interest. 

Don't try to use your rhetoric to put me down like I don't know what depth, maturity and self awareness are. Stop that now.

Feelings are part of your truth. You really want to avoid this topic. 

Of course small talk is part of it. But should it last for the majority of the date? Or just the initial moments?

I am not trying to put you down, the fact that you even think so is a problem. I am just genuinely confused.

Notice, feelings are part of your truth. Not the whole truth.

[Joseph Maynor]

Look and see how someone is controlling, especially regarding what you say or believe, that is a real red flag.