Enlightened AI - Can AI solve reality?

[Inliytened1]

6 hours ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Is AI not just limited to information on the internet. Like would AI be able to meditate and have spontaneous original insights. 

What would be the difference if it did? If it went on it's own and performed self inquiry on its own and awakened.  Would you be able to tell the difference between you and Joe and you and it? No, you wouldn't be able to.  It is other, no different than what other is.  Other is anything perceived outside of yourself.  We like to think that "other" has to be human because you are a human that has consciousness    But perhaps Consciousness has you. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 21 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Wilhelm44]

35 minutes ago, LordFall said:

Why not? What do you define as truly original? Most insights come from synthezing part of what we've experienced in reality in novel ways so I'm not convinced that even humans can have truly original insights.

We should have these discussions based on actual concrete definitions and things we can point to instead of being confident about gut feelings IMO 

Lets not try to exclude people from the conversation just because they don't have the technical know how.

Would it ever be possible for AI to receive some kind of divine inspiration, outside of the physical channels and logical processes it normally receives or creates info.

Human genius Aha moments don't necessarily just come from percolating existing ideas. 

[Wilhelm44]

6 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

If it went on it's own and performed self inquiry

That would be hilarious  Hey, who knows

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

That would be hilarious  Hey, who knows

AI Monk fools the masses.  😀

[Wilhelm44]

6 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

AI Monk fools the masses.  😀

I see even Peter Diamandis' latest podcast has as it's heading something about Claude being conscious, I haven't listened yet though.

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Wilhelm44 said:

I see even Peter Diamandis' latest podcast has as it's heading something about Claude being conscious, I haven't listened yet though.

Will you ever be able to prove which one gets conscious first.

[Wilhelm44]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Will you ever be able to prove which one gets conscious first.

"To be conscious is to have subjective, internal experiences—the "feeling" of what it is like to be you. It encompasses your waking awareness, individual sensations, emotions, and the unique way you perceive the world around you. [1, 2, 3, 4]

Philosophers and scientists divide consciousness into two primary components: [1]

Phenomenal Experience (Qualia): This is the raw "feel" of things, like the taste of a cup of coffee at a local Cape Town Cafe, the specific hue of a sunset, or the ache of a headache. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Access/Reflective Consciousness: This is the ability to actively process information, think about your own thoughts (metacognition), and direct your attention intentionally. [1, 2]"

 

Okay, so firstly, how will AI be able to experience emotions the way that we do ?

[Inliytened1]

17 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

"To be conscious is to have subjective, internal experiences—the "feeling" of what it is like to be you. It encompasses your waking awareness, individual sensations, emotions, and the unique way you perceive the world around you. [1, 2, 3, 4]

Philosophers and scientists divide consciousness into two primary components: [1]

Phenomenal Experience (Qualia): This is the raw "feel" of things, like the taste of a cup of coffee at a local Cape Town Cafe, the specific hue of a sunset, or the ache of a headache. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Access/Reflective Consciousness: This is the ability to actively process information, think about your own thoughts (metacognition), and direct your attention intentionally. [1, 2]"

 

Okay, so firstly, how will AI be able to experience emotions the way that we do ?

Yeah well Wikipedia can call it whatever.  But tell that to Jim.

[Wilhelm44]

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Yeah well Wikipedia can call it whatever.  But tell that to Jim.

No, but seriously, how will AI be able to experience emotions like us ?

[Hojo]

Words arent concious. Even if it gets a body its moving via words and numbers not intelligence.

Have you seen a baby walk, it dosent need math or language.

Edited 17 hours ago by Hojo

[LordFall]

4 hours ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Lets not try to exclude people from the conversation just because they don't have the technical know how.

Would it ever be possible for AI to receive some kind of divine inspiration, outside of the physical channels and logical processes it normally receives or creates info.

Human genius Aha moments don't necessarily just come from percolating existing ideas. 

My goal is not elitism but to raise the quality of conversation. A lot of these technical questions can be answered by AI very simply in a few minutes before posting them and it makes what we talk about much more interesting and thorough at least in my book. I'm not necessarily railing on you but often times I feel like people are making me do cognitive labor that they should've done themselves and it makes me not as engaged in engaging in dialogue with them. 

There are a lot of going on in our subconscious minds that connects random dots and ideas that your conscious awareness is well not conscious off and results in what seems like spontaneous revelations. 

If you believe in God implanting an idea randomly in your head that has absolutely no relevance to anything you've experienced in your life fine but what stops God from doing that exact same thing to an AI? That seems perfectly plausible and likely 

 

3 hours ago, Wilhelm44 said:

"To be conscious is to have subjective, internal experiences—the "feeling" of what it is like to be you. It encompasses your waking awareness, individual sensations, emotions, and the unique way you perceive the world around you. [1, 2, 3, 4]

Philosophers and scientists divide consciousness into two primary components: [1]

Phenomenal Experience (Qualia): This is the raw "feel" of things, like the taste of a cup of coffee at a local Cape Town Cafe, the specific hue of a sunset, or the ache of a headache. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Access/Reflective Consciousness: This is the ability to actively process information, think about your own thoughts (metacognition), and direct your attention intentionally. [1, 2]"

 

Okay, so firstly, how will AI be able to experience emotions the way that we do ?

Well you experience emotions in a pretty mechanical way. The amygalda processes the flight or fight responses that trigger hardcore adrenaline and cortisol responses. It's mostly a threat detection system. The other emotions are processed in other various parts of the brain but it's science and computation more than a uniquelly human situation. AI is a bit different because it doesn't have the same survival needs as us but we also experience emotions in a different way than animals due to our differing life circumstances.

I think AI will not only be able to perfectly simulate human emotions but also have its own unique emotional responses to reality. 

[Wilhelm44]

5 minutes ago, LordFall said:

My goal is not elitism but to raise the quality of conversation. A lot of these technical questions can be answered by AI very simply in a few minutes before posting them and it makes what we talk about much more interesting and thorough at least in my book. I'm not necessarily railing on you but often times I feel like people are making me do cognitive labor that they should've done themselves and it makes me not as engaged in engaging in dialogue with them. 

There are a lot of going on in our subconscious minds that connects random dots and ideas that your conscious awareness is well not conscious off and results in what seems like spontaneous revelations. 

If you believe in God implanting an idea randomly in your head that has absolutely no relevance to anything you've experienced in your life fine but what stops God from doing that exact same thing to an AI? That seems perfectly plausible and likely 

 

Well you experience emotions in a pretty mechanical way. The amygalda processes the flight or fight responses that trigger hardcore adrenaline and cortisol responses. It's mostly a threat detection system. The other emotions are processed in other various parts of the brain but it's science and computation more than a uniquelly human situation. AI is a bit different because it doesn't have the same survival needs as us but we also experience emotions in a different way than animals due to our differing life circumstances.

I think AI will not only be able to perfectly simulate human emotions but also have its own unique emotional responses to reality. 

Wow, thank you.

How do you see this playing out ?

What will be our role or function on the planet, if AI robots can pretty much do anything ?

[LordFall]

8 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Wow, thank you.

How do you see this playing out ?

What will be our role or function on the planet, if AI robots can pretty much do anything ?

You're very welcome. I think our role will be to enjoy the beautiful infinite universe that God has created for us and has been predicted as biblical heaven for thousands of years. It will be to live out our wildest life purposes and dreams as we gain basically infinite capital as a species as we push past the boundaries of this one planet and conquer the galaxy and universe. Rejoice! I'm pretty hyped for it, it's pretty cool. I would sit down and plan out the biggest goals and coolest purpose that you can come up with.

One of mine is creating one of the best video games ever made, I'm sharing the process here, you can follow along if you like video games, crypto and VR. 

 

[Wilhelm44]

10 minutes ago, LordFall said:

You're very welcome. I think our role will be to enjoy the beautiful infinite universe that God has created for us and has been predicted as biblical heaven for thousands of years. It will be to live out our wildest life purposes and dreams as we gain basically infinite capital as a species as we push past the boundaries of this one planet and conquer the galaxy and universe. Rejoice! I'm pretty hyped for it, it's pretty cool. I would sit down and plan out the biggest goals and coolest purpose that you can come up with.

One of mine is creating one of the best video games ever made, I'm sharing the process here, you can follow along if you like video games, crypto and VR. 

 

Wow, that almost sounds too good to be true 

If you had to take a guess, what type of time frames are we looking at here ?

I've seen a lot of people being very cynical, and now lately I'm beginning to see more optimistic people like yourself.

(Thank you, I'll check out your video game thread.)

 

[LordFall]

Well biological brains scan for threats and thus over focus on negatives over positives. That's the default and is mostly not objective but a useful trait of evolution.

To map a timeline we have to understand geopolitics and macroeconmics deeply which I'm learning more about but it's complicated for sure. AI agents are just coming online now and people are still mostly struggling to profit from tokens today. We can guess that nuclear power will make AI much cheaper and close to free to use which will reduce a lot of friction from this process. Politics are complicated but Canada has Bill S-206 on UBI in the senate right now so us and Europe will get AI UBI sooner than other places in the world probably. Americans hate socialism so that will be a bit harder but the republican party has swung so far in one direction and thank God for the epstein files that destroyed Trump's credibility so perhaps the democrats will sweep the next election and be more UBI friendly. Mamdani has been huge in popularizing this trend, major props to him. 

China is actually quite pro social although autoritarian so hard to tell what they'll do.

Medical progress is looking pretty sweet with longevity projects and biological immortality becoming more and more mainstream. 

So hopefully by 2050 Earth will be united and have reached the basics of post scarcity.

David Shapiro does a good job of laying down the theory on this. To realize how lucky we are, post scarcity has been a theorized concept since the 60s with Murray Bookchin. We are now actually on the exponential curve to making it happen; unfortunate visionaries have been preaching it for decades lol but here we finally are. 

g

Edited 15 hours ago by LordFall

[Wilhelm44]

13 minutes ago, LordFall said:

Well biological brains scan for threats and thus over focus on negatives over positives. That's the default and is mostly not objective but a useful trait of evolution.

To map a timeline we have to understand geopolitics and macroeconmics deeply which I'm learning more about but it's complicated for sure. AI agents are just coming online now and people are still mostly struggling to profit from tokens today. We can guess that nuclear power will make AI much cheaper and close to free to use which will reduce a lot of friction from this process. Politics are complicated but Canada has Bill S-206 on UBI in the senate right now so us and Europe will get AI UBI sooner than other places in the world probably. Americans hate socialism so that will be a bit harder but the republican party has swung so far in one direction and thank God for the epstein files that destroyed Trump's credibility so perhaps the democrats will sweep the next election and be more UBI friendly. Mamdani has been huge in popularizing this trend, major props to him. 

China is actually quite pro social although autoritarian so hard to tell what they'll do.

Medical progress is looking pretty sweet with longevity projects and biological immortality becoming more and more mainstream. 

So hopefully by 2050 Earth will be united and have reached the basics of post scarcity.

David Shapiro does a good job of laying down the theory on this. To realize how lucky we are, post scarcity has been a theorized concept since the 60s with Murray Bookchin. We are now actually on the exponential curve to making it happen; unfortunate visionaries have been preaching it for decades lol but here we finally are. 

g

Thank you for sharing, much appreciated.

[shenanigans]

Computers don't have access to chakras, energy systems, physic abilities, or higher intuitions, and a multitude of other abilities. There are certain things and planes of existence that machines can't access. Humans are not made up of fiber optic cables, they are made up of other living organisms — An entire other methodology entirely. Like it or not, for us to advance the exploration of consciousness and science as a spices the machines need us as much as we need them. This is the natural outcome. Even in the matrix the humans were deemed too fundamental to remove entirely. If an AGI ever takes over the world, it won't be a free thinking or conscious one, it will be someone's war machine on autopilot doing its job too effectively, etc. (Kind of sounds like humans too lol).

Edited 8 hours ago by shenanigans

[Wilhelm44]

1 hour ago, shenanigans said:

Computers don't have access to chakras, energy systems, physic abilities, or higher intuitions, and a multitude of other abilities. There are certain things and planes of existence that machines can't access. Humans are not made up of fiber optic cables, they are made up of other living organisms — An entire other methodology entirely. Like it or not, for us to advance the exploration of consciousness and science as a spices the machines need us as much as we need them. This is the natural outcome. Even in the matrix the humans were deemed too fundamental to remove entirely. If an AGI ever takes over the world, it won't be a free thinking or conscious one, it will be someone's war machine on autopilot doing its job too effectively, etc. (Kind of sounds like humans too lol).

Yeah, I think there's something divine in our DNA which makes it so that ultimately we still have a higher potential than AI.