Jeweler kills the two robbers but must compensate the families.

[HopePaul]

https://en.ilsole24ore.com/art/sentence-upheld-for-jeweller-who-killed-two-robbers-AJQjWhK

https://stream24.ilsole24ore.com/video/italia/cuneo-attesa-sentenza-roggero-video-sparatoria-cui-gioielliere-uccise-rapinatori/AJdJAZK

I would like to share an Italian case with you, and I would like to get your opinion on it. In Italy, there is a major issue regarding self-defense—it takes very little to cross the line from being in the right to being in the wrong.

In this specific case, three robbers entered a jewelry store; inside were the owner, his wife, and his daughter. At the end of the robbery, the robbers went outside to get into their car. At that point, the owner grabbed his gun, chased after them, and started shooting. He killed two of them, and the third was injured.

All this happened in 2021, and a few days ago the verdict was announced: 15 years in prison for the jeweler, and additionally, he must compensate the robbers' families. For the time being, he has to pay 780,000 euros, but it could reach up to 3 million.

I am curious to know how situations like this are handled outside of Italy. Personally, I agree with the prison sentence, but I don't really agree with the financial compensation.

I am leaving you both the newspaper article and the video of the robbery.

[LordFall]

Is the jewelry insured? If so that's unhinged and he was only acting on the insult to his ego to having being robbed.

If it's uninsured and that's his lifes work and his family living that they stole then personally I think he should get a light prison sentence or even just community service and no damage paid to the families. The robbers chose to break the social contract and use violence to get paid and as thus they suffer the consequences. 

That's the whole point of a career and a business, why the fuck do you work hard if it's rewarded to steal from people? In Nigeria young guys still take guys and kidnap people because it's legitimately a better business model than working your way up the system. Rewarding people that break the social contract always ends in chaos. 

In Canada it works the same as in Italy even more strict towards the jeweler. I think it's a bit closer to true morality than my own thoughts on it tbh but also it's just done to rid themselves of liability. They don't care if your living and your life is ruined from a robbery they want to stop lawlessness on their streets. Cars and other stuff get stolen in Canada all the time and police do nothing. This whole justification that these progressive prison systems are moral is falling apart as their lenient sentencing is leading to massive amounts of repeat offenders and if you follow the money they just don't wanna pay to house offenders, the policy makers stay in their gated communities and let the general public deal with the increased chaos of there being no enforced social contract. 

I just ran my own comment through Gemini and it said I was 55% correct and 45% cynical so take that however you want. 

Edited 9 hours ago by LordFall

[enchanted]

Awesome post @HopePaul!

These 30 seconds of vigilantinism is way more enthralling than a 2 hour action film. 

I'm not a legal expert but my gut feeling says the jeweler should not get charged in any way. But then again we don't live in the wild west and the legal system is a million shades of grey for a reason. What if the thief is a starving young kid would it be ok to shoot them? So I agree with you the prison sentence might make sense but perhaps the financial compensation doesn't.

Edited 9 hours ago by enchanted

[Joshe]

IMO, you don't get to commit a violent crime and then have your death treated as a loss the world owes your family for. Absurd. 

Edited 7 hours ago by Joshe

[Elliott]

That's murder in the u.s., he'd have to pay wrongful death lawsuit, likely millions.

He would have been able to beat them, and if they retaliated he could then kill them, but it was an unreasonable amount of force to just execute them without a trial. He could have shot their tires or engine. He could have shot them inside if he was threatened, and he could have shot them outside if they seriously harmed someone.

Am I allowed to shoot kids that steal my scooter? Anyone would get sued for millions, you can push the kid down, but the type and amount of force has to be reasonable for the situation.

Edited 5 hours ago by Elliott

[Hojo]

Looks fine to me.

[Hojo]

13 minutes ago, Elliott said:

That's murder in the u.s., he'd have to pay wrongful death lawsuit, likely millions.

He would have been able to beat them, and if they retaliated he could then kill them, but it was an unreasonable amount of force to just execute them without a trial. He could have shot their tires or engine. He could have shot them inside if he was threatened.

Am I allowed to shoot kids that steal my scooter? Anyone would get sued for millions, you can push the kid down, but the type and amount of force has to be reasonable response for the situation.

You dont shoot kids cause they are retarded. These are fully grown men and know what they are doing and are aware of the concequences but do it anyway.

Edited 5 hours ago by Hojo

[Elliott]

Just now, Hojo said:

You dont shoot kids cause they are retarded. These are fully grown men and know what they are doing.

You gave them iq test?

[Elliott]

Just now, Hojo said:

You dont shoot kids cause they are retarded. These are fully grown men and know what they are doing.

I can shoot a grown man in the back for stealing my scooter, what about a hot dog at gunpoint, he runs away and I shoot him in the back?

 

You're probably gonna wind up in jail one day @Hojo .......

[Hojo]

@Elliott Kids dont know that pain exists, they dont have experience. They dont know that these types of things exist. Criminal like this know guranteed they have been punched in the face and know that someone can shoot them when they do stuff like this.

[Hojo]

@Elliott If you kidnap my family in my house and steal my resources i have the right to chase you dont and murder you in the street and take back my stuff. You are trying to lesser what happend to compare it to a hot dog. Come on dont be dumb.

[Elliott]

1 minute ago, Hojo said:

@Elliott If you kidnap my family in my house and steal my resources i have the right to chase you dont and murder you in the street and take back my stuff. You are trying to lesser what happend to compare it to a hot dog. Come on dont be dumb.

In no country is that legal. You can beat them and if they fight back you can then kill them. You can shoot them in the leg.

Edited 4 hours ago by Elliott

[Hojo]

 

2 minutes ago, Elliott said:

I can shoot a grown man in the back for stealing my scooter, what about a hot dog at gunpoint, he runs away and I shoot him in the back?

 

You're probably gonna wind up in jail one day @Hojo .......

everyone onn this forum is a gaslighter.

[Stick]

well if he chased and killed people when his life was not in danger then that experience itself is gonna make him more likely to murder more people in the future. 
I think some rehabilitation can work for him because he was originally minding his own business and didnt have any planned intention of murder and did so out of rage of the moment.

[Hojo]

@Elliott He did beat them with a bullet.

[Elliott]

Just now, Hojo said:

@Elliott He did beat them with a bullet.

Even if he only punched one that wasn't fighting back, and the robber died from hitting his head on the ground, you'd be in trouble for manslaughter.

[Elliott]

2 minutes ago, Stick said:

well if he chased and killed people when his life was not in danger then that experience itself is gonna make him more likely to murder more people in the future. 
I think some rehabilitation can work for him because he was originally minding his own business and didnt have any planned intention of murder and did so out of rage of the moment.

Anyone that reacts that way pre-planned that response.

@Hojo for example, his forum post will send him to 10 extra years....

Edited 4 hours ago by Elliott

[Hojo]

@Elliott At least his wife wont have to live in fear that these cronies will come back for free pickings.

[Elliott]

Just now, Hojo said:

@Elliott At least his wife wont have to live in fear that these cronies will come back for free pickings.

They're the only robbers in existence. Robbers are extinct now....

[Hojo]

@Elliott Its probably the only time thats happened to him. There not alot of brazen people that will go into a building and kidnap families to steal and if it happens again do it again.

Edited 4 hours ago by Hojo