Should I Leave a Loving Relationship for Growth and Intellectual Compatibility?

[integral]

1 minute ago, Elliott said:

He's in a toxic abusive relationship with you. His girlfriend is not toxic, just not what he's looking for.

From your perspective what i said is toxic abuse? 

1 minute ago, Elliott said:

just not what he's looking for.

and what i said is he needs life experience to know what hes looking for.

[Elliott]

13 minutes ago, integral said:

From your perspective what i said is toxic abuse? 

Ya

13 minutes ago, integral said:

and what i said is he needs life experience to know what hes looking for.

You said that AND that what he will learn is that his current girlfriend is what he will wind up wanting.

[integral]

Just now, Elliott said:

that what he will learn is that his current girlfriend is what he will wind up wanting.

Why is that such a crazy thing to say?

[Elliott]

16 minutes ago, integral said:

Why is that such a crazy thing to say?

 

1 hour ago, integral said:

Let's assume someone does not have a scarcity mindset, they do have options and yet they're in a great relationship with a great woman who has one imperfection.

Now your whole post looks like someone has to chase perfection or else there settling, so the framing is everything is settling and that's weakness and therefore it's wrong. 

Do you "deserve a Lamborghini?" the answer: The question is a shallow value projection. 

Needing Perfection is the pathology.

Because these are children's games.

If you're in a great relationship and still not happy it's because you have to grow up. And there's nothing wrong with needing to grow up and if that growing up means you have to leave the relationship to experience life then that's what you got to do.

 

56 minutes ago, integral said:

I didn't say he had to settle. I said if he has a problem he needs more life experience and that means he has to leave the relationship and get that experience

 

You never said what's in bold, reread your middle comment I'm quoting here, go back and reread your comments, it was close, but the difference is important, you're explicit here in bold, now saying 'he definitely needs to break up'.

Edited 5 hours ago by Elliott

[integral]

45 minutes ago, Elliott said:

You never said what's in bold, reread your middle comment I'm quoting here, go back and reread your comments, it was close, but the difference is important, you're explicit here in bold, now saying 'he definitely needs to break up'.

I read in the previous comment that people were interpreting what we were saying as that he should stay in the relationship.

When what we're talking about is he doesn't have any gratitude or appreciation or understanding what life is about.

and @LordFall will frame gratitude as weakness, settling, scarcity mindset, laziness and so on. and that's only true when they didn't do any self development work, when they didn't pursue all of that stuff and now they're actually coping.

This is his first relationship and he found something to be unhappy about, And that's fine that's how we are all built and now he has to go and date 600 more women to find that they're all basically the same.

Everyone you're going to date is going to have strengths and weaknesses.

@LordFall the MBTI point was good, compatibility is important, but what matters more above mbti is what is their mature level, how have applied themselves in self development, do they have healthy physiology and don't have neurological conditions.

Edited 5 hours ago by integral

[Elliott]

21 minutes ago, integral said:

 

This is his first relationship and he found something to be unhappy about, And that's fine that's how he's built and now he has to go and date 600 more women to find that they're all basically the same.

Everyone you're going to date is going to have strengths and weaknesses

Amen

 

*Not 600 women, obviously hyperbole, hopefully just one more

By the way, my dating method is not dating a lot, what I suggest is being friends first, go make friends with women, you'll marry your next girlfriend.

Edited 5 hours ago by Elliott

[integral]

13 minutes ago, Elliott said:

By the way, my dating method is not dating a lot, what I suggest is being friends first, go make friends with women, you'll marry your next girlfriend.

It's hard to know if you're compatible with someone if you don't live with them

[Elliott]

40 minutes ago, integral said:

It's hard to know if you're compatible with someone if you don't live with them

What would be the issue?

I don't suggest passive friendship(for dating), but analytical; are they uncompromising is a big one, it's not all about shared interests, you need to analyze their personality and preferences(for dating). You need to ask everything you would like you were dating, 'what are your beliefs _____?'.

Edited 4 hours ago by Elliott

[integral]

36 minutes ago, Elliott said:

What would be the issue?

When living with someone people go through every state and mood. So the whole spectrum of who they are as a person is revealed. Their worst possible selves and their best possible selves are all going to be something that the partner has to experience every day.

The closer that both partners Lifestyles align with each other the less friction there's going to be when all these different moods and States collide.

Having high standards to select a good partner is super important and 99% of the point of doing that is to figure out if you can live together with them.

Edited 4 hours ago by integral

[LordFall]

3 hours ago, integral said:

MIMINUM?

He said the only problem with his wife is that she's intellectually not his equal.

That means she qualifies at every level except for one.

Anyways the problem has nothing to do with the girl it has to do with him not having experience, and not knowing what life is about and prioritizing small details that and he thinks fixing these small details are going to bring him happiness

Not his wife his girlfriend that he’s been dating for 8 months, as in the standard honeymoon relationship. That’s one level that trickles down to every aspect of their relationship. 

He won’t feel understood and seen, they’ll have different goals and long term vision for their lives , they’ll value different aspect of communication, etc. It’s basically the difference between finding your best friend vs some chill person that accepts you. It’s not a small detail, to me that would be like a 60% miss-match.

2 hours ago, integral said:

@Elliott Realistically what you could hope for is a woman who's going to hug you when you come home from work and tell you that she loves you.

 

2 hours ago, integral said:

I didn't say he had to settle. I said if he has a problem he needs more life experience and that means he has to leave the relationship and get that experience

But don't expect some rainbow unicorn woman at the other side

I didn't date them long term but I have two FWBs that were comfortable and loving when I hung out with them for a few months. To me that's the start of abundance. If you do your pick up journey properly you should have that in abundance.

There is something to be said about being more in appreciation and lowering your threshold for stimulation but I wouldn't conflate that with having low dating experience and standards. We are blessed to be living in times where we can explore dating more abundantly than pretty much any of our ancestors, I wouldn't default to settling for the first woman that accepts you as being a wise answer. 

[integral]

15 minutes ago, LordFall said:

Not his wife his girlfriend that he’s been dating for 8 months, as in the standard honeymoon relationship. That’s one level that trickles down to every aspect of their relationship. 

He won’t feel understood and seen, they’ll have different goals and long term vision for their lives , they’ll value different aspect of communication, etc. It’s basically the difference between finding your best friend vs some chill person that accepts you. It’s not a small detail, to me that would be like a 60% miss-match.

I agree and also it's still very messy the real world, it's true there's a mismatch and also there's always going to be a mismatch. Is the mismatch that he's going to get with other woman going to be a bit better than this one, Maybe.

15 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I didn't date them long term but I have two FWBs that were comfortable and loving when I hung out with them for a few months. To me that's the start of abundance. If you do your pick up journey properly you should have that in abundance.

There is something to be said about being more in appreciation and lowering your threshold for stimulation but I wouldn't conflate that with having low dating experience and standards. We are blessed to be living in times where we can explore dating more abundantly than pretty much any of our ancestors, I wouldn't default to settling for the first woman that accepts you as being a wise answer. 

He can't be satisfied where he's at so he has to go and explore the world, that's 100% correct.

What we're talking about is that he's going to go find some woman out there that's better than the one he has, That's the only thing in question here.

I agree with a lot of points you made about compatibility, and disagree with that he's not compatible with the woman he's dating right now.

And if he's on the verge of loneliness in the honeymoon phase of an 8 month relationship clearly there's more to the problem than him having to go explore the Abundant sexual fruits of our world.

The number one thing he's going to find out there dating other people is himself

---

Theres always a subtle hint in your writing that there's this abundant world out there and of course you can't be satisfied in a relationship you have to taste the fruits of everything.

A lot of intps are like this my INTP friend tried to have me have sex with his girlfriend because he was so desperate for threesome, and his girlfriend was rejecting it. So I asked him why he wants this so badly? why is this stuff so important to him that he would allow other men to have sex with his girlfriend? And from his perspective he just wants to explore and experience everything and he doesn't want to be limited. Well from my perspective I don't want someone else's dick in my girlfriend. But to each their own right? I personally couldn't care less about experiencing another man inside my girlfriend but he is so obsessed with experiencing every aspect of life that he wants this. He also told me he wants to experience killing someone at least once. lmao so that he could get the full experience of life, to get the full experience you always have to experience everything at least once.

Well I don't agree, that's just his values and what he wants out of life

Edited 4 hours ago by integral

[LordFall]

@integral Well that's a bit far but I agree with it being a common INTP trait in general. It's one of my favorite parts of my personality though, most people I find lack creativity and originality. Some of it is pathological and unhealthy like for my personal self I want to stop watching porn for 1 year and see if it changes my desires and appreciation for life. I tend to find most of life dull and uninteresting so complicated ideas and schemes appeal to me. 

Having said that the part of life that was always interesting and full of challenges and wonder to me was dating. The more I study it the deeper the potential of it goes and how much settling I see in the wider world. Humans have never really gotten a chance to actually self-develop in that area and really explore. Most of the last couple of thousands of years humanity has defaulted to enforced monogamy as a default societal order strategy but by definition it can't result in meeting someone that you're actually optimally compatible with. 

To me it mirrors the life purpose quest where most people default to a cookie cutter career that pays their bills and give up their dreams. According to Gemini 5% of people actually accomplish their childhood dreams 30% compromise to something that's more realistic and fit them and 65% aren't satisfied with where they're at and grab what they can. That 65% mirrors what I see in terms of mediocre relationships in the world, to me that's quite sad. 

[integral]

1 hour ago, LordFall said:

@integral Well that's a bit far but I agree with it being a common INTP trait in general. It's one of my favorite parts of my personality though, most people I find lack creativity and originality. Some of it is pathological and unhealthy like for my personal self I want to stop watching porn for 1 year and see if it changes my desires and appreciation for life. I tend to find most of life dull and uninteresting so complicated ideas and schemes appeal to me. 

Having said that the part of life that was always interesting and full of challenges and wonder to me was dating. The more I study it the deeper the potential of it goes and how much settling I see in the wider world. Humans have never really gotten a chance to actually self-develop in that area and really explore. Most of the last couple of thousands of years humanity has defaulted to enforced monogamy as a default societal order strategy but by definition it can't result in meeting someone that you're actually optimally compatible with. 

To me it mirrors the life purpose quest where most people default to a cookie cutter career that pays their bills and give up their dreams. According to Gemini 5% of people actually accomplish their childhood dreams 30% compromise to something that's more realistic and fit them and 65% aren't satisfied with where they're at and grab what they can. That 65% mirrors what I see in terms of mediocre relationships in the world, to me that's quite sad. 

This is the vision of self development that happens when someone unlocks self development for the first time, they then fully realize just how little everyone else is self-directing their own development. And then they realize all the issues in the world and that if people were pursuing self-development they wouldn't make all of these mistakes and of course the incentive is to help push people to grow up.

What I'm talking about is after exhausting this Non-Stop at the end of all of this self-development work, the measurement for what someone gets out of life is not getting "what they deserve".

So statements like "Out of 10 what quality of partner do you think you deserve? If you answer anything other than 10 you're low self-esteem or lazy in my books."

This makes perfect sense to a beginner with low self-esteem, a way to manufacture a feeling. The function of "you deserve a 10" is to install entitlement as motivation, to convince yourself you're owed the best, and you'll have the confidence/drive to pursue it, fail to feel owed it, and you'll "settle." So "deserve" here is a psychological technique.

And then it quickly becomes a victim mindset and an entitlement mindset. "I dont deserve this" is a victim mindset. Deserving things is disguised as standards. It's very close to having high standards but it's actually a game of victim hood. The right way is to Simply have standards for yourself and a vision for the type of life you want to have.

-> The right framing is to ask what is my vision of the type of life I want and is this aligned with it?

What kind of Lamborghini do you think you deserve?  I feel No Lack whatsoever for Lamborghinis. This is literally the experience of Lamborghini abundance.

There's no 'deserve' in how I see it because there's no one there to be owed anything. There's just: what's the situation, what's my vision, and what's the strategic move to bring them closer.

Developed people are not running a self-esteem calculation about what they're owed.

If your dick gets chopped off are you going to feel like you deserve a dick? It was never about deserving dicks, Maturity involves accepting reality and being strategic about how you apply your vision to the real world. 

[LordFall]

@integral What's your MBTI type we clearly have vastly ways of seeing the world. I like to quantify things otherwise we are talking about vague generalities with no way of knowing if we're talking about the same thing. 

> Out of 10 what quality of partner do you think you deserve? If you answer anything other than 10 you're low self-esteem or lazy in my books.

This is a very straightforward statement. If you feel like your partner is 10/10 then you've won. Has nothing to do with what you're owed it's about the vision you have for your life. Some people have different requirements for their perfect 10 but if your suggestion is that if you find a 7/10 relationship you should be happy then you're coping.

I think you should find your 10/10 woman no matter what it takes. Then you find another 10/10 and fuck them both at once. Now you're at 20/10. Now you meditate on your life journey and you are grateful that the universe has such abundant blessings, now you're feeling 30/10. Now you work on your business and make a lot of money so you date them both and impregnate them both, now you're at a 50/10. Then you create social circles all around the world so you're not limited to one city and have both more sensual opportunities but really social and business connections throughout many countries, now now you're at 70/10. Why settle for a 7/10 relationship when you can have a 70/10 one? 

I'm exaggerating a bit(but not really this is my legitimate goal) to paint a picture but you get the point.

I'm not new to self-development I've been doing this for over a decade. I see a lot of people cope with their lack of results and then veil it with a having transcended materiality and now being a superior ascended being but rarely does that translate to actual results and is usually cope in my experience. 

It goes back to our conversation in the other thread that you can act like you're satisfied with your growth journey but if you're disastisfied with the world and when you analyze your life you realize that you haven't build any scale and impact to what you're doing then obviously it's spiritual bypassing. 

It sort of sounds like your situation, feel free to elaborate if I'm wrong. To me it's like a spiritual guru that's blessing out in cave thinking and perhaps having really transcended our reality. Still a low impact individual that's not as developed as he or she could be and if I spoke to such a Guru I would tell him the same thing. 

Edited 1 hour ago by LordFall

[Jirh]

It's wise to quit gambling once you've won the jackpot.

[LordFall]

5 minutes ago, Jirh said:

It's wise to quit gambling once you've won the jackpot.

You need to buy a pickup program my brother. Finding a girl that accepts you is not the jackpot. It's the bare minimum a man should envision for his dating life and really even below that. 

[Jirh]

@LordFall

Quote

incredibly loving, loyal, beautiful woman. We are highly compatible in lifestyle: both introverted, home-oriented, physically attracted to each other, and comfortable living together. She takes care of the home, I provide financially, and the relationship is peaceful and easy.

That's not mere acceptance. That's the jackpot in relationships.

But you can keep playing. You can keep gambling. It's your life.

[LordFall]

Pretty sure if you travel and learn some game you can find about 10 of those women in like 1 month if you tried hard. Which country are you from and have you tried dating in other places? It's not gambling if you're executing a proven plan that other men succeed at. 

I know guys that would do this in a lets say hedonistic way and would meet 1-3 new women each day. Not that they meet all those boxes but most of them met the attractiveness one. Now for loyalty and mentally stable I would say take out 60% and have compatible lifestyle and you take out another 50% and you end up with about 5-10 new compatible candidates. Do this over a 5-6 month period in different countries and tightening your screening and you'll find an actual top tier partner. Be polyamorous and you'll have many of them. Now make some money and you can afford to settle down with all of them. 

 

[Jirh]

@LordFall You're crazy.

[LordFall]

7 minutes ago, Jirh said:

@LordFall You're crazy.

Why?