Religion was the original self-help

[Jirh]

The governing laws of a society don't have to be religious or spiritual. It just so happens that they mostly are in stage Blue societies.

In this case, religion is a placeholder for the laws, not the source.

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Jirh said:

The governing laws of a society don't have to be religious or spiritual. It just so happens that they mostly are in stage Blue societies.

In this case, religion is a placeholder for the laws, not the source.

You are acting like it is arbitrary, but it's not arbitrary. Laws are spiritual because humans are spiritual.

You can have secular laws, but humans are spiritual and demand spiritual things. If you give them secular laws they will not be satisfied and ask for your head on a platter because you ignored their spiritual needs.

Edited 2 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Jirh]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You are acting like it is arbitrary, but it's not arbitrary. Laws are spiritual because humans are spiritual.

You can have secular laws, but humans are spiritual and demand spiritual things. If you give them secular laws they will not be satisfied and ask for your head on a platter because you ignored their spiritual needs.

Yes, absolutely. Spirituality is necessary and encoded in our brains. No arguments there.

But my point still stands that religion is a placeholder for the laws, not the source.

Then, self-help and religion are both placeholders of personal laws. Not chronically related, but different, almost opposite placeholders.

[Leo Gura]

@Jirh I wouldn't call them placeholders, they are natural stages of development.

[Jirh]

Maybe not placeholders, but more like high-jackers of the stages.

The stage is the underlying human capacity. The need for order, meaning, morality, transcendence, etc...

Religion is a parasitic interpretation of that capacity. It doesn't generate stage Blue. Just like self-help doesn't generate stage Orange.

Edited 1 hour ago by Jirh

[Joseph Maynor]

It depends on how you organize the stages of development.  

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, Jirh said:

Religion is a parasitic

That's a narrow way of looking at it.

Religion was a great innovation in its day. It wasn't just a parasite, it offered unique things that didn't exist previous and had a variety of beneficial impacts on humanity. Of course, it causes harm too. Today it is largely outdated, but again, only for those of us in highly developed parts of the world.

Most people in the world today are still not developed enough to outgrow religion. If people were developed enough to outgrow it, religion would barely exist.

Edited 1 hour ago by Leo Gura