Jiddu Krishnamurti

[Mellowmarsh]

10 minutes ago, Ajay0 said:

Yes, there are some principles that are tested enough adequately, and which can serve as lighthouses or beacons to navigate through the seeming chaos. 

That’s fair enough. Thanks. 🙏

[Sugarcoat]

On 2026-06-19 at 7:35 AM, Jirh said:

I don't view it as teaching. More like sharing what I know and learning more in the process. I prefer to call it exploring.

Well, that's way too much to explore 😅

physicality, reality, real, illuminating.

Each is its own journey.

Teacher/teaching can be a loaded word so I see what you’re saying, but I dont necessarily use it in way that puts one above the other, just how we can help each other connect the dots. 
 

Ahahahahahha all these terms can feel confusing because we all have our own personal touch and interpretation to them. 😅
 

 

[Sugarcoat]

On 2026-06-19 at 2:25 PM, Breakingthewall said:

I think that this is because from Buddhism  an "enlightened" person is supposed to be someone who has achieved a permanent state of peace and bliss. This sells much better than a teacher with insomnia because they're in the middle of a horrible divorce. People think: I want that, permanent happiness, I'm buying! 

 

Yea sometimes people be dissecting these teachers as if any expression of what they deem as “ego”  automatically disqualifies them.

On 2026-06-19 at 2:25 PM, Breakingthewall said:

Imo the problem number one is: suffering comes from thoughts. Stop thinking and suffering will disappear. This implies that there is a self who decides to think or not. And for some reason this self is addicted to suffering. So, what is this self who decides? It's something separate from thoughts? But then they say that there is not a self, it's imaginary . Who is imagining it? So, who could find this explanations satisfactory? Just someone who believe: don't think in it, just let it go. Brunch of bullshit in my humble opinion 

Yea I also don’t agree with this overemphasis on thoughts sometimes. As if they forgot about “state” , maybe vague term but I’ve found for myself that thoughts can arise as reflections of a certain “state” ones in, can include emotional, whole body/being tension etc, so even if you would manage to quiet them down it wouldn’t have that powerful effect because the underlying “state” didn’t change much and so the tonight’s will continue eventually. Sometimes something more powerful is needed, like using the body, etc. So teaching could potentially be powerful but they lack holism to me sometimes.

Also about this self thinking or not, I mean simply experientially, even in my most egoic states I felt like thoughts are so powerful and automatic there’s no way I can overpower all of that by chosing to “let go” mentally or something haahahah . 

Edited Monday at 12:30 AM by Sugarcoat

[Breakingthewall]

9 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Yea I also don’t agree with this overemphasis on thoughts sometimes. As if they forgot about “state” , maybe vague term but I’ve found for myself that thoughts can arise as reflections of a certain “state” ones in, can include emotional, whole body/being tension etc, so even if you would manage to quiet them down it wouldn’t have that powerful effect because the underlying “state” didn’t change much and so the tonight’s will continue eventually.

They affirm that because sounds like logic from a perspective very limited (being polite). Then why those thoughts are been created? Is it because you're stupid and you create them yourself?

Then why do you like having a family where truth, coherence, and love reign, and not one where your father rapes you and tortures your mother, tearing off her flesh with pliers? If everything is love! (❤️) Just stop being prejudiced! Help your father hunt enormous rats to lock your mother up with and watch them devour her! And then stop thinking negative things, you stupid masochist. It's all love. Silence your mind and go with the flow.

Well, no, there are genetic structures creates in the deep time that make you have negative thoughts due some situations, same than makes you feel pain if you get burned. The mind is an alive being, not a mistake or a computer that you use, it's what you are, you can't use it as it were a tool because it's precisely you. If you don't understand it, you would be locked in a duality called non duality 

[Ajay0]

Jiddu Krishnamurti's book 'Freedom from the known' is considered to be his greatest work, and essential to understand the theme of his teachings on the nature of the mind, thought, origin of desire, sensation, ego, self-knowledge and so on in all his subsequent works.

This is now available freely on the internet.

 

Some insightful excerpts from the book on the nature of pleasure and cravings...


 

Quote

Most of us walk through life inattentively, reacting unthinkingly according to the environment in which we have been brought up, and such reactions create only further bondage, further conditioning, but the moment you give your total attention to your conditioning you will see that you are free from the past completely, that it falls away from you naturally.


We are not aware of outward things or of inward things. If you want to understand the beauty of a bird, a fly, or a leaf, or a person with all his complexities, you have to give your whole attention which is awareness. And you can give your whole attention only when you care, which means that you really love to understand - then you give your whole heart and mind to find out.

Such awareness is like living with a snake in the room; you watch its every movement, you are very, very sensitive to the slightest sound it makes. Such a state of attention is total energy; in such awareness the totality of yourself is revealed in an instant.
 

Pleasure comes into being through four stages - perception, sensation, contact and desire. I see a beautiful motor car, say; then I get a sensation, a reaction, from looking at it; then I touch it or imagine touching it, and then there is the desire to own and show myself off in it. Or I see a lovely cloud, or a mountain clear against the sky, or a leaf that has just come in springtime, or a deep valley full of loveliness and splendor, or a glorious sunset, or a beautiful face, intelligent, alive, not self-conscious and therefore no longer beautiful. I look at these things with intense delight and as I observe them there is no observer but only sheer beauty like love. For a moment I am absent with all my problems, anxieties and miseries - there is only that marvellous thing. I can look at it with joy and the next moment forget it, or else the mind steps in, and then the problem begins; my mind thinks over what it has seen and thinks how beautiful it was; I tell myself I should like to see it again many times. Thought begins to compare, judge, and say `l must have it again tomorrow'. The continuity of an experience that has given delight for a second is sustained by thought.



It is the same with sexual desire or any other form of desire. There is nothing wrong with desire. To react is perfectly normal. If you stick a pin in me I shall react unless I am paralysed. But then thought steps in and chews over the delight and turns it into pleasure. Thought wants to repeat the experience, and the more you repeat, the more mechanical it becomes; the more you think about it, the more strength thought gives to pleasure. So thought creates and sustains pleasure through desire, and gives it continuity, and therefore the natural reaction of desire to any beautiful thing is perverted by thought. Thought turns it into a memory and memory is then nourished by thinking about it over and over again.


Thought is never new, for thought is the response of memory, experience, knowledge. Thought, because it is old, makes this thing which you have looked at with delight and felt tremendously for the moment, old. From the old you derive pleasure, never from the new. There is no time in the new.


So if you can look at all things without allowing pleasure to creep in - at a face, a bird, the colour of a sari, the beauty of a sheet of water shimmering in the sun, or anything that gives delight - if you can look at it without wanting the experience to be repeated, then there will be no pain, no fear, and therefore tremendous joy.


It is the struggle to repeat and perpetuate pleasure which turns it into pain. Watch it in yourself. The very demand for the repetition of pleasure brings about pain, because it is not the same, as it was yesterday. You struggle to achieve the same delight, not only to your aesthetic sense but the same inward quality of the mind, and you are hurt and disappointed because it is denied to you.


So if you understand that where there is a search for pleasure there must be pain, live that way if you want to, but don't just slip into it. If you want to end pleasure, though, which is to end pain, you must be totally attentive to the whole structure of pleasure - not cut it out as monks and sannyasis do, never looking at a woman because they think it is a sin and thereby destroying the vitality of their understanding - but seeing the whole meaning and significance of pleasure. Then you will have tremendous joy in life. You cannot think about joy. Joy is an immediate thing and by thinking about it, you turn it into pleasure. Living in the present is the instant perception of beauty and the great delight in it without seeking pleasure from it.

 

[Breakingthewall]

@Ajay0

Good excerpts. I read that book and was very impressed. But now I can't help but see it as completely wrong at its core.

When you read K, you come to the conclusion that the solution to every problem is to stop thinking, so you have to meditate until you achieve a thoughtless mind, like that of a 6-month-old baby. Well, a human being doesn't work like that. The problem isn't thoughts; they are inevitable. The problem is the thoughts that arise in a mind that operates on a comparative emotional level, that hasn't conquered its sovereignty, that deceives itself and fears not being enough, due emotional structures that comes from the deep time, from the evolution of mammals

This mind can be in total silence and still remain at the same level. It will be a forced and violent silence. He sees everything exactly the opposite; thought is a consequence of your operational level, not the cause.

Edited 13 hours ago by Breakingthewall