How did the ( Illusion ) the sense of separation start?

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

I was focusing on where you said you put a period on the discussion.  No worries.  Maybe it is a miscommunication.  

I meant his response did it, that theres nothing to add really, naturally

[Joseph Maynor]

5 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

I meant his response did it, that theres nothing to add really, naturally

Nothing to add but your response.  That should be acknowledged.  Our response.

[Sugarcoat]

3 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Nothing to add but your response.  That should be acknowledged.  Our response.

Can't keep yapping forever u know 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

50 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Can't keep yapping forever u know 

 

Of course.

[Mellowmarsh]

On 05/06/2026 at 0:34 PM, Leo Gura said:

Infinity/God has no start or end.

Infinity never starts! That's the Beauty of Infinity. That's how God solved the problem of getting something from nothing. Infinity is the one and only thing that doesn't need a start and doesn't have an end.

Indeed, this one and only thing is infinite, thus is impossible to be separated. 

Infinity looking for the start of itself would be like the content of consciousness looking for consciousness. There’s no way to traverse the content of consciousness from consciousness, it’s one continuous seamless flow, from source to source.

Paradoxically, infinity is impossible to be known without the apparent separation that appears as the observer / observed , albeit illusory. 

As this one and only thing cannot be divided from its own essence without ceasing to be what it is. 
This one and only thing "one" or “ infinity” can never truly be separated from itself. Because a thing is identical to itself by definition, absolute separation is a logical impossibility.

[Joseph Maynor]

50 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

Indeed, this one and only thing is infinite, thus is impossible to be separated. 

Infinity looking for the start of itself would be like the content of consciousness looking for consciousness. There’s no way to traverse the content of consciousness from consciousness, it’s one continuous seamless flow, from source to source.

Paradoxically, infinity is impossible to be known without the apparent separation that appears as the observer / observed , albeit illusory. 

As this one and only thing cannot be divided from its own essence without ceasing to be what it is. 
This one and only thing "one" or “ infinity” can never truly be separated from itself. Because a thing is identical to itself by definition, absolute separation is a logical impossibility.

Notice the impossible, no way, cannot in this communication.  

[Mellowmarsh]

11 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Notice the impossible, no way, cannot in this communication.  

Mind the Gap. 

Im Possible. 
 

 Mind is known in this conception that is knower and known communication.
But that which is known knows nothing, because the mind is never seen, only known.

Closing gaps is the entrance to infinity. 

[VeganAwake]

17 hours ago, Mellowmarsh said:

Closing gaps is the entrance to infinity. 

I've definitely closed some gaps in my day 

[Mellowmarsh]

A book is a story with a beginning and an end. Many authors appear, but there’s only one reader of writing no one ever writ.

The story is inseparable from the book.

We perceive things. Labelling happens immediately, and then the stories start. It feels like the “I” is the controller. But is it really? Or is the “I” just another story?

[Osaid]

Reading the story, it seems that a great many things are done. Dragons are slain, villages are conquered. Yet, the one reading the story never actually moves anywhere or goes anywhere.

[Mellowmarsh]

5 minutes ago, Osaid said:

Reading the story, it seems that a great many things are done. Dragons are slain, villages are conquered. Yet, the one reading the story never actually moves anywhere or goes anywhere.

Nice! 👌 

[Sugarcoat]

On 2026-06-08 at 11:00 PM, Osaid said:

Interesting.

When the body is still, like in meditation, or even when falling asleep, all sorts of "things" and "ideas" can come up. This is "par for the course".

I bring up sleep, because from my POV, falling asleep is not really different at all from meditation. It's like a mandatory meditation you do every night.

I can relate to that! It is like built in meditation in everyday life (unless you fall asleep super quick eheh)

On 2026-06-08 at 11:00 PM, Osaid said:

The same happens when the body becomes sick. Lots of people say being sick makes them more humble. Some say it makes them more grateful. Some say it makes them contemplate death more. Depends on the ideas the person has accumulated mentally. Essentially, the state of the body will make all sorts of ideas about yourself come up and out, kind of like a "mental purging".

Yea and as you seem to allude to it can be a mental thing. So when they healthy again they may go back to old habits LOL

On 2026-06-08 at 11:00 PM, Osaid said:

The "smoothness" of meditation, or dealing with any kind of energetic or emotional state, comes down to your ability to focus on what is present (real) rather than what isn't present (unreal). That's why people use the breath and other things as an "anchor" to focus on. Meditation is going back to what is most fundamental, which is the fact of your existence, in spite of any thoughts that seem tempting to "chase after".

Meditation is "letting go", like sleep is, rather than "chasing after".

Technically, it can be done anywhere, even while moving, as you said. Since the present, or the real, is indeed everywhere.

Keeping the body still is just to lessen the significance of the body.

What isn't present aka "unreal"?  You mean sense of self and thoughts? Seems you meant thoughts now that im reading 

Why would keeping the body still help in particular? by moving body it creates stronger physical sensation and engagement of body so that can help still the mind, as it takes attention away from head,  actually in my experience (as long as its done automatically, not by thinking like "oh im gonna do this movement next") 

 

🤔

[Osaid]

4 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

(unless you fall asleep super quick eheh)

Hahaha, true. I'm not a quick sleeper.

Extra meditation gains, though.

4 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

So when they healthy again they may go back to old habits LOL

Yeah they start to feel like Superman again.

4 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

What isn't present aka "unreal"?  You mean sense of self and thoughts? Seems you meant thoughts now that im reading

The notion that there is something other than this, like "past", "future", etc. Colloquially referred to as thoughts or the sense of self, yes.

4 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Why would keeping the body still help in particular? by moving body it creates stronger physical sensation and engagement of body so that can help still the mind, as it takes attention away from head,  actually in my experience (as long as its done automatically, not by thinking like "oh im gonna do this movement next") 

I imagine that's the point of yoga, although I've never done it. Maybe yoga is better for some? Different strokes for different folks. Yoga seems to be something that stirs up an energetic process in the body or something.

Keeping the body still seems to be like setting an intention that you're not going to do anything or pursue anything. It's like the ultimate form of "letting go", even all the jobs of the body. Most people constantly have thoughts that tie them to the body. At least that's how I see it. As an analogy, Einstein wouldn't have tried to come up with an equation for the universe while going sledding, he would've sat down and simply focused on the mental activity itself. Similarly, meditation is focusing on the activity of being, and that seems to naturally create a "stillness" in the body.

[Sugarcoat]

On 2026-06-10 at 11:53 PM, Osaid said:

Hahaha, true. I'm not a quick sleeper.

Extra meditation gains, though. 

That happened to me when I went to bed a set time too, but it can be difficult to balance when you know you have to wake up a certain time...

On 2026-06-10 at 11:53 PM, Osaid said:

 

Yeah they start to feel like Superman again.

The notion that there is something other than this, like "past", "future", etc. Colloquially referred to as thoughts or the sense of self, yes.

Ok I see

On 2026-06-10 at 11:53 PM, Osaid said:

I imagine that's the point of yoga, although I've never done it. Maybe yoga is better for some? Different strokes for different folks. Yoga seems to be something that stirs up an energetic process in the body or something.

Keeping the body still seems to be like setting an intention that you're not going to do anything or pursue anything. It's like the ultimate form of "letting go", even all the jobs of the body. Most people constantly have thoughts that tie them to the body. At least that's how I see it. As an analogy, Einstein wouldn't have tried to come up with an equation for the universe while going sledding, he would've sat down and simply focused on the mental activity itself. Similarly, meditation is focusing on the activity of being, and that seems to naturally create a "stillness" in the body.

I have not done "yoga" in the conventional term either except for some basic class way back in high school as part of PE class.

But I have done large amounts of movement, dynamic stretching etc, because I have felt the desire and impulse to fix these uncomfortable sensations I feel in my body . I didn't follow instructions, I have just done what felt good physically, noticing what movement releases what muscles etc etc

Upon quick googling I would say that it could be considered some form of yoga what I have been doing. 

You mention the "seems to stir up energetic process in body". I did experience that during same time period of doing this. I did movements in past too but extra lately. I dont think its the number one cause but theres def connection there

Does that "energetic process" seem profound for you? Or do you think meditation rather really got that depth youre looking for?

For me, my experience of reality and myself has transformed completely over these past months, and this "energy" thing seems to be foundation of that

One perspective that I can add that I don't remember having heard about, is how:

The better the physical state of your body is, the more you're able to detach from it and go deeper into your mind. 

I know I am sensitive to the sensations in my body, but this is something I have experienced. When I feel uncomfortable in my body it's like it is taking my attention automatically. And yes, it happens sometimes that if I go into a good state/flow state in my mind, then that can be strong enough to override the bodily discomfort and I can "forget" my body a bit. But this ability is still limited. I noticed lets say after doing exercises and movements, and I felt good in my body, then I when I would engage my mind (listening to music for example or even writing something) then I would be able to go deeper and more effortlessly into the "flow state", in more intense way, because discomfort in my body wasn't taking my attention to my body anymore in those  moments 

I dont know how a super healthy person feels in their body, but I bet a lot of people have some degree of discomfort regularly. So I do think this could apply to people even if they aren't experiencing it so intensely like me 

 

 

Edited 13 hours ago by Sugarcoat

[Osaid]

35 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

But I have done large amounts of movement, dynamic stretching etc, because I have felt the desire and impulse to fix these uncomfortable sensations I feel in my body . I didn't follow instructions, I have just done what felt good physically, noticing what movement releases what muscles etc etc

Upon quick googling I would say that it could be considered some form of yoga what I have been doing. 

I see, that's pretty cool. I was thinking you might have intuitively reinvented some form of yoga through sheer will or something.

35 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Does that "energetic process" seem profound for you? Or do you think meditation rather really got that depth youre looking for?

I don't know for sure what kind of energy you're experiencing, and I don't personally have experience with anything I would call kundalini-related, but I do have my ideas about it.

I think it's similar to what I said about being sick, but in reverse. There can be profound energetic states which make it more obvious that the present is all there is, because they change your physiological or energetic function in some way. This can also naturally shift the sense of identity. If a sick person is busy contemplating death, then someone who is in some kind of special energetic state might think "wow it's so obvious that death isn't real because of how I feel or perceive things right now". This commonly happens with psychedelics too.

As a more extreme example, if someone took some psychedelics and entered a state where their body disappeared, then it would be very hard to keep up the identity which says "I am the body".

But, ultimately the destination for any seeker is the same. There comes a point where there isn't any more "depth" because all is realized to be timeless. This ends the separate self that always desires to seek more.

When it comes to enlightenment, it is a very specific realization into the timeless nature of experience, although it often gets conflated with all sorts of different experiential content. Since enlightenment is timeless, it doesn't actually change or evolve over time, and in that sense it gets deemed as "absolutely true". Which is also why I say it's all ultimately towards the same destination. In that sense, you do reach a point where there is no further "depth". It's more like "fullness".

35 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

I know I am sensitive to the sensations in my body, but this is something I have experienced. When I feel uncomfortable in my body it's like it is taking my attention automatically. And yes, it happens sometimes that if I go into a good state/flow state in my mind, then that can be strong enough to override the bodily discomfort and I can "forget" my body a bit. But this ability is still limited. I noticed lets say after doing exercises and movements, and I felt good in my body, then I when I would engage my mind (listening to music for example or even writing something) then I would be able to go deeper and more effortlessly into the "flow state", in more intense way, because discomfort in my body wasn't taking my attention to my body anymore in those  moments 

I dont know how a super healthy person feels in their body, but I bet a lot of people have some degree of discomfort regularly. So I do think this could apply to people even if they aren't experiencing it so intensely like me 

That reminds me of something I also noticed with my focus. If there is some quality of experience which isn't desirable, you can always ask "is there any aspect of experience which doesn't have this quality?", and then when you move your attention there it does seem to make the other quality actually move out of focus. I think this also naturally happens when we get distracted or go into flow state or listen to music.

Edited 12 hours ago by Osaid

[Mellowmarsh]

Even the flow state is an illusion. 
 

Nothing ever moved. Only the mind moves, not you. Not the empty looking. 
 

Looking back, looking forward, looking up, looking down.  I am the looked upon.

[Sugarcoat]

9 hours ago, Mellowmarsh said:

Even the flow state is an illusion. 
 

Nothing ever moved. Only the mind moves, not you. Not the empty looking. 
 

Looking back, looking forward, looking up, looking down.  I am the looked upon.

So you dont have a sense of experience?