Debate : Will Zohran Mamdani city-run grocery stores actually work?

[museumoftrees]

I want to hear non-partisan opinions on this. I know this forum is mostly left leaning but the sources I found online are mostly right wing bashing the concept of government run grocery stores altogether.

I personally have no clue if they'll work. I feel like this is something we have to do and observe scientifically as a society. But for me, public stores are the next step in terms of bringing competition and driving prices down in the food industry.

[Wilhelm44]

I hope it does, people need some relief.

[Raze]

It will be popular simply due to inflation 

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

Does goverment know what food people really want, including quality, quantity, brands, timing of the deliveries? What do you think, what mechanism is goverment going to use to compete with normal, private owned grocery stores? Questionaires? LOL

As luck would have it tho, ultimately it doesn't matter anymore

Edited yesterday at 11:34 AM by NewKidOnTheBlock

[Basman]

It would likely undercut the business of private vendors first of all, and I'm not sure how sustainable it is if it's not profitable. And private business tend to be better at serving demand. And when they fail it doesn't come directly out of the collective's pockets. It's a big reason why communism tend to lead to starvation. Many hands lift more. What does work is regulating unfair practices like collusion and price gouging or subsidies.

we'll see, I guess. But I'm not confident it would really work. I'm worried it would turn into a money sink for little gain.

Edited yesterday at 01:07 PM by Basman

[Basman]

If it's done at a lose, then its basically just glorified humanitarian aid. The issue with that is that it undercuts local business and survival while the quality of product and service suffers. Communities need to be able to functionally survive on their own. 

[museumoftrees]

19 hours ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

Does goverment know what food people really want, including quality, quantity, brands, timing of the deliveries? What do you think, what mechanism is goverment going to use to compete with normal, private owned grocery stores? Questionaires? LOL

As luck would have it tho, ultimately it doesn't matter anymore

What mechanisms do companies use to compete ?

Edited 7 hours ago by museumoftrees

[museumoftrees]

17 hours ago, Basman said:

If it's done at a lose, then its basically just glorified humanitarian aid. The issue with that is that it undercuts local business and survival while the quality of product and service suffers. Communities need to be able to functionally survive on their own. 

Interesting. But I mean, when you look at my country (Canada), the food sector is an oligopoly. There is no «local» business. The food industry and grocery stores is 80% owned by 5 companies (I need to fact check this but it's close to that) and the ticket price per person is dramatic. There is no competition, no innovation and the consumer pay for it. I think a publicly owned grocery store chain would compete against the private sector and ultimately drive prices down.

[Basman]

4 hours ago, museumoftrees said:

Interesting. But I mean, when you look at my country (Canada), the food sector is an oligopoly. There is no «local» business. The food industry and grocery stores is 80% owned by 5 companies (I need to fact check this but it's close to that) and the ticket price per person is dramatic. There is no competition, no innovation and the consumer pay for it. I think a publicly owned grocery store chain would compete against the private sector and ultimately drive prices down.

That would be an example of where simply regulating industry would make the most sense long-term. It's a lack of good regulation that got you in that mess in the first place arguably.

Edited 3 hours ago by Basman

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

7 hours ago, museumoftrees said:

What mechanisms do companies use to compete ?

You should already know the answer to that as that is just common sense. You haven't answered my question though, how are state owned groceries going to determine variables connected to your actual needs accurately, if they forgo the profit motive? They are going to assume those variables for you, is the answer. That's why they'll never be able to compete with privately owned groceries/supermarkets (even if the market is oligopoly as you've put it). But they can provide an addition, a nice alternative for poor people I suppose, making them highly dependent on their existence most likely. However, to your point about lower prices, just because you set the prices for food lower in those stores, doesn't mean that the suppliers from whom you're buying those groceries has the same charitable motive - obviously they are going to want to be profitable LOL. Idk man, you'd probably need to nationalize the whole agricultural industry or whatever. Straight out of mr. Stalin's book