Nothing important is happening

[Breakingthewall]

19 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

"concepts" are like the minor aspect to me, the major one is just this lived "sense" of self . Could say "experience" of self too, but it's just more fundamental than thoughts for me (seems). 

Interesting you say "descriptions from other people" because for me I feel it's this super internal thing rather . 

 

Exactly, concepts arise about the reality of the self; they are not what create the self. I don't understand why non-duality teachers say the self is an idea when it is a fundamental structure.

The self arises when there is inside/outside, an exchange of information, and awareness of being. It is impossible for consciousness to exist without the self, because the very existence of consciousness implies being aware that you are, and that is precisely what the self is.

[Sugarcoat]

22 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Exactly, concepts arise about the reality of the self; they are not what create the self. I don't understand why non-duality teachers say the self is an idea when it is a fundamental structure.

The self arises when there is inside/outside, an exchange of information, and awareness of being. It is impossible for consciousness to exist without the self, because the very existence of consciousness implies being aware that you are, and that is precisely what the self is.

Yea that is a good way to articulate it. It feels like you’re saying what I’ve been thinking too, also that second paragraph. because I’ve been a little confused when I’ve pondered this, because I have heard people use these terms “awakening” etc etc but then I feel some similarity to them (not talking about those total non dualists now), and then I wonder “but what am I then, what do they even mean”.  But yea in particular this self vs no self thing has been like “hmmmmm”

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Sugarcoat

[Sugarcoat]

38 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

😂 LoL

 

Jim Newman morphed into Jim Oldman that died and emerged as Jim Noman. Lol 

 

He is funny so it’s funny to joke like that. But yea maybe he’d find it funny too if we said it on his “event” or whatever it’s called

Actually I looked him up recently and saw he was in my city last month I missed 🤣🤣🤣

[Mellowmarsh]

45 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

He is funny so it’s funny to joke like that. But yea maybe he’d find it funny too if we said it on his “event” or whatever it’s called

Actually I looked him up recently and saw he was in my city last month I missed 🤣🤣🤣

Yeah I like Jim, his laughter is so genuine straight from the belly. It’s so contagious.

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

There is knowledge of existing as a fact, or not? 

When you say "I", you don't mean vegan awake with all his history, you mean the fact of knowing that you are. You can cover this fact with a lot of characteristics, a heavy ego, or remove everything except the fact of knowing that you are, but in both cases there is an i, because the I is a process, a structure that happens that is  fact of being knowing that is 

Who knows it?

What exactly is that which claims to know these so-called facts?

 

I just wouldn't describe it as knowledge.

It's more like a description of reality after all the conditioned beliefs, concepts, stories, assumptions crumble away. But I can understand how that would seem like a knowing of sorts.

I would admit a master auto mechanic has the knowledge about the total functioning of certain vehicles. It's happening directly in front of him, he can see everything live in action as it happens.

But I don't actually know reality, & I'm certainly not the totality of it. 

It was here doing its thing long before this body learned its human name and how to go pee pee in the toilet without splashing everywhere.

[Breakingthewall]

24 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

But I don't actually know reality, & I'm certainly not the totality of it. 

Rumi said: you are not a drop in the ocean, you are the ocean in a drop. 

Do you understand what he means? In any part there is the totality, because the totality can't be divided, because it's total. 

About the self, any consciousness means knowing of being. In fact that's the definition of consciousness. If you are in anesthesia you don't know that you are, even you are, then there is no self, but if you are awake there is consciousness of being and that is the self.

The most empty consciousness, the meditative state , is when only the fact of I am remains. You could ask, who knows that? The fact of knowing creates the self because the self is the fact of knowing the fact of being. 

As consciousness is a possibility (as we can see) then the self is a fundamental property of the reality. The self is not the reality, it's the reality expressed as a self, knowing that it is

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

Yea that is a good way to articulate it. It feels like you’re saying what I’ve been thinking too, also that second paragraph. because I’ve been a little confused when I’ve pondered this, because I have heard people use these terms “awakening” etc etc but then I feel some similarity to them (not talking about those total non dualists now), and then I wonder “but what am I then, what do they even mean”.  But yea in particular this self vs no self thing has been like “hmmmmm”

 

 

Imo there are two problems with the non dualistic paradigm. First that they assume that duality is an illusion, second, that reality is consciousness. 

Duality is a structural fact, it's the same if everything is ultimately the same, duality is happening. It's not an illusion, it's the form of reality now. 

And consciousness is an arising, not the reality. And arises due the fact of structural duality. It's reality perceiving itself. Perceive implies a self that appears when the reality adopts a mode that is a representation of a change of information between two separate realities. Both could be essentially the same, but now they are separate. 

The paradigm oneness and illusion leads to confusion, to get stuck in a frozen state where you are closed to the real power of what is. Flat, empty, limited