Looking for weak points on both sides.

[Hasson_Miah]

Context - I went to speakers corner this week on a day trip to London. My friend encouraged me to speak to a Muslim speaker, because he himself watches him and vouched for him I decided to do so. At first I was hesitant I didn't have anything I wanted to ask him from the heart. I spoke about this with my friend and I told him I am not afraid to look stupid, that's when I decided to put this statement to the speaker.

 

'' I left Islam can you convince me to come back ''. It was recorded and I've submitted the video below. 

If anyone has 40 minutes to watch and debunk points from either side this is what I am looking for from you. 

https://youtu.be/26O2fk7h1YY?si=AmBgWAlrYg0Y_VPs

 

[Razard86]

Religion won't get you to God. To find God you have to find God within yourself. It takes time if you are not spiritually gifted and can be a long arduous process unless you use psychedelics or some other aid. 

[Breakingthewall]

Seems interesting but honestly, I'm lazy to listen 40 min. Maybe you could write here the main points that he exposed 

[YIDIRYIDIR]

Even if all the claims and thesis of the host are true, it wouldn't have nothing to do with islam, or the existence of God. it's just running in circles. so what if if God is necessary and not contingent? so what if it is coherent? 

and the method he told you to find Allah, by simply setting there and asking him to guide you, is just there's so much wrong with it. 

and the guy who gave you the food example is hilarious lol, he pissed me off with his completely unrelated analogy that's offensive and biased as fuck. 

anyway, logic will never lead to being religious, that's why the whole time y'all agreed to disagree, especially with the mental gymnastics that host is doing. belief is what leads to religion (or indoctrination). 

[Hasson_Miah]

@Razard86 okay

[Hasson_Miah]

@Breakingthewall LOL! I'm too lazy to do that too.

[Hasson_Miah]

@YIDIRYIDIR The method he gave me of sitting down and asking Allah why do you say there is wrong in it?

LOL that guy pissed me off and I'm glad my responses provoked him to walk away hahaha. He asked me can God make an immovable object.Yes!How?Then he wouldn't be all powerful. ''I don't know. Go ask him '' 

I've given up on some of my beliefs I'm no longer the same.

[Elliott]

6:50 he said it's incoherent for mother to give birth to herself, it's not and he's strawmanning your point anyway like god is human, even he doesn'tbelieve that. Every life is ultimately the same life, even from a science viewpoint each new person is not a new life it's a continuation of your parents life, every bug and bacteria is thought to come from the same one originating life.

 

11:00 he says your Source is incoherent, buy he cannot prove his is coherent,his is contradiction too

 

21:00 I disagree with both of you, it's infinite

 

23:00 he did a Motte and Bailey fallacy to you, he was speaking about physical, you corrected him "only A and B", and he said we're not speaking metaphysical, then he went to argue God was beginning of chain(metaphysical)

25:00 dependent implies no free will.

 

36:00 what if Jesus is God and Mohammed was a conman, the other guy is going to hell. Why does he not believe in the other religions. Would God prefer someone that hasn't been convinced of God therefore doesn't submit to a religion, or someone that winds up worshipping satan(a wrong religion)? Out of cowardice, to boot!!(fear of hell(which is corrupt on his part, to submit out of fear and for a reward))

Edited 3 hours ago by Elliott

[YIDIRYIDIR]

11 hours ago, Hasson_Miah said:

@YIDIRYIDIR The method he gave me of sitting down and asking Allah why do you say there is wrong in it?

It assumes what it’s trying to prove. You're already assuming Allah exists and listens before you've shown that to be true. That’s circular reasoning.

It would work equally for every religion. A Christian can say “ask Jesus,” a Hindu can say “ask Krishna,” and people in each religion feel guided. If the same method leads to contradictory religions, it’s unreliable. and are we supposed to do that for every religion if we are seeking truth?

It’s completely subjective. Any “guidance” happens in your private thoughts or feelings. There’s no way for others to verify whether it came from God or your own mind. the only strong convincing way to say God guided someone is if It showed them something in their direct experience (which almost never happened for any Muslim, so why is that someone special?)

It Is Vulnerable to Psychological Bias and self deception. It cannot distinguish truth from imagination. Humans are highly biased and suggestible. If you expect guidance, your brain can easily interpret random thoughts, feelings, or coincidences as signs. That’s basic psychology, not necessarily divine guidance.

There’s no failure condition. If you feel guided then Islam is true. If you don’t feel guided then you weren’t sincere enough. So the method can never be proven wrong, which makes it weak epistemically.

Also, the host knows he can never use logic or reason to convince you, otherwise he would. and that's why he recommended you that method. which made that whole conversation pointless. because he was using reason the whole time to debate things that have nothing to do with islam, but rather with this general abstract notion of God.