Is this ME/CFS?

[Vynce]

Does anyone else experience/experienced Myalgic Encephalomyelitis / Chronic Fatigue Syndrom (or Long Covid, which is very similar)? 

Since about a year I'm researching why my fatigue won't go away. No matter how long I relax and sleep physical fatigue prevails. And since I'm not effected by junk food, drugs, sleep deprivation, brain cancer, depression, burnout ect., I'm really suspecting my nervous system caught something very similar to me/cfs somehow. I did all the typical tests for blood, MRT scans and basic check-ups to exclude anything more obvious. Nothing seems suspicious in that part. However ->

The cardinal symptom for ME/CFS is PEM (Post Exertional Malaise), which means that fatigue symptoms get WAY worse after physical exercise or even mental stress. So that some 20 minutes of moderate exercise can send one into weeks of fever like sickness -> Which I do experience as well. 

On some days it got so bad that I couldn't walk for 10 minutes before having to stay in bed for 80% of the day. Now it got better since some time, without any understanding why. Its not gone though.

Still, anything like normal work, exercise, dating, breathwork, psychedelics or just taking a good long walk is basically impossible for me now. For some people this condition can get fatally bad, which I'm luckily far away from. 

So have you had chronic fatigue like this somewhen? Or some of your relatives? What insights can one have into this? 

So far school medicine does not have any curative medication or therapy for ME/CFS and still only just suggests to pace yourself so PEM does not happen. 

I will suggest to my doctor to do a water fast again to see if autophagy can help with them corrupted cells in my body.
Still researching though.. 

Edited March 15 by Vynce

[Norbert Somogyi]

I'm sorry to read what you are going through, and I hope you find the source to heal!

However I don't think you are going to get an accurate diagnosis here. Regardless, there are a few potential causes that come to mind. Thyroid issues, anemia, certain nutritional deficiencies (vitamin D, Bs, minerals like copper&zinc, magnesium etc.). A comprehensive bloodwork is needed, especially if they haven't look at corresponding markers.

I was looking through the web and found a comprehensive website with a shitton of resourceful information, that you may find helpful. https://cfsremission.com/model-of-cfs/

One of the things people report there is finding relief by including vitamin D in their regime, levels above 50ng providing the biggest improvements. https://cfsremission.com/treatment/symptom-mitigation/core-vitamin-d3/

The main component or culprit there appears to be gut bacteria, that is altered in an unhealthy way.

I'm not well-versed in water fasting, but I'm not sure the body can fully heal itself that way when key building components are missing, toxins are overly present, or the stores are low.

Heavy Metal Toxicity is also a potential culprit, lots of information to be found even on this site. Developing a personal protocol with a professional, especially when it comes artificial chelators like ALA, DMSO etc. Alternatively there exist more natural approaches. They involve for example increasing methallothionein production within the body (zinc, copper, selenium and cofactors - See the works of Jason Hommel here), iodine, glutathione etc.

[Elliott]

Stress also does it

[Vynce]

10 hours ago, Norbert Somogyi said:

I'm sorry to read what you are going through, and I hope you find the source to heal!

However I don't think you are going to get an accurate diagnosis here. Regardless, there are a few potential causes that come to mind. Thyroid issues, anemia, certain nutritional deficiencies (vitamin D, Bs, minerals like copper&zinc, magnesium etc.). A comprehensive bloodwork is needed, especially if they haven't look at corresponding markers.

I was looking through the web and found a comprehensive website with a shitton of resourceful information, that you may find helpful. https://cfsremission.com/model-of-cfs/

One of the things people report there is finding relief by including vitamin D in their regime, levels above 50ng providing the biggest improvements. https://cfsremission.com/treatment/symptom-mitigation/core-vitamin-d3/

The main component or culprit there appears to be gut bacteria, that is altered in an unhealthy way.

I'm not well-versed in water fasting, but I'm not sure the body can fully heal itself that way when key building components are missing, toxins are overly present, or the stores are low.

Heavy Metal Toxicity is also a potential culprit, lots of information to be found even on this site. Developing a personal protocol with a professional, especially when it comes artificial chelators like ALA, DMSO etc. Alternatively there exist more natural approaches. They involve for example increasing methallothionein production within the body (zinc, copper, selenium and cofactors - See the works of Jason Hommel here), iodine, glutathione etc.

Appreciate it! I will look into everything of that the next days.

Its interesting you mention Vitamin D, since this was the only blood marker that was a bit low. And since I spent more time outside, I did got better. Heavy metal chelation was also something I thought about. 

I get back here, when I know more. 

[ZenAlex]

I'm recovering from it now. Got covid in 2023. Haven't worked since 2024. Was in bed most of 2025.

Trying to build up my exercise and getting sad that I've become too deconditioned to do serious exercise, but having faith in rehab with physios. 

My advice - 

1) Limit technology, stay conscious with your body

2) Gradually increase

3) Look into Raelan Agle - Brain retraining and polyvagal theory. It has helped me

You gotta convince your brain it is safe to engage in activity. It may take a bit of time before your body lets you recover. I'm 2.5 years in and can do 10k steps with difficulty.

I am able to walk 10k steps right now after being bed bound up until january, but the after effect of the activity is sometimes concerning.

Try to see it as a an opportunity to get to know yourself. I was fit and active before, but now I'll probably use this as a push towards weight training and conditioning my body more carefully, as opposed to just doing carido. Maybe this expereince will lead us to developing better body conditioning to avoid pain later in our lives. 

My MH issues taught me things that saved me from suicide during the year I was unable to leaev my bed.

Edited March 28 by ZenAlex

[Vynce]

On 28/03/2026 at 1:16 PM, ZenAlex said:

I'm recovering from it now. Got covid in 2023. Haven't worked since 2024. Was in bed most of 2025.

Trying to build up my exercise and getting sad that I've become too deconditioned to do serious exercise, but having faith in rehab with physios. 

My advice - 

1) Limit technology, stay conscious with your body

2) Gradually increase

3) Look into Raelan Agle - Brain retraining and polyvagal theory. It has helped me

You gotta convince your brain it is safe to engage in activity. It may take a bit of time before your body lets you recover. I'm 2.5 years in and can do 10k steps with difficulty.

I am able to walk 10k steps right now after being bed bound up until january, but the after effect of the activity is sometimes concerning.

Try to see it as a an opportunity to get to know yourself. I was fit and active before, but now I'll probably use this as a push towards weight training and conditioning my body more carefully, as opposed to just doing carido. Maybe this expereince will lead us to developing better body conditioning to avoid pain later in our lives. 

My MH issues taught me things that saved me from suicide during the year I was unable to leaev my bed.

Yeah, as someone who was physically very active throughout life I intuitively use all my spare energy to go out and be as active as I can allow myself. Unfortunately though, this does not (as science agrees) initiate some kind of energy upward spiral with actual ME/CFS. Which also limits how much good mood and satisfaction I can have. Makes me depressed to think about not ever doing sport again tbh.

[integral]

Your problem is likely just airborne allergies. Though the idea of an allergy as taught to everyone by Society is wrong. You don't need to cough, sneeze or have any sore throat issues to have allergies. Fatigue is triggered by allergies. And you could be allergic to absolutely anything, but it's very likely synthetic man-made stuff like the insulation in your house that's giving you fatigue.

The biggest culprit is that breathing this stuff while you sleep impairs your sleep cycles creating a cycle of poor recovery, toxin buildup, weaker physiological resistance, over sensitive immune system and oversensitive nervous system, overworked liver.

I'm part of a community that has cured chronic fatigue through avoiding Airborne allergies. 

Edited Friday at 06:10 PM by integral

[integral]

On 3/15/2026 at 6:22 PM, Vynce said:

doctor to do a water fast again

The reason this works is cuz you're reducing inflammation. You're in a state of chronic inflammatory response,, chronic overstimulated nervous system, chronic autoimmune response. The fasting and even ketogenic diet will lower the total body load temporarily.

The math equation here is you want to lower your total body load so your body doesn't have to do all that work cleaning up the damage and your liver doesn't have to do as much work.

Everything you eat everything you inhale adds to this total body load.

You want to take binders to absorb toxins being created by your gut. You want to take binders that will bind to toxins your liver is trying to detox. And most importantly you want to avoid the source. Of course food is obvious but the next one that isn't obvious and very difficult to change is everything you're inhaling which goes directly into your bloodstream.

People don't understand what you inhale is directly in your blood immediately. So you're in a room boxed in that is super toxic and you're consuming that Non-Stop. 

And then you wonder why you have chronic fatigue?

Edited Friday at 06:09 PM by integral

[Vynce]

On 10/04/2026 at 7:54 PM, integral said:

Your problem is likely just airborne allergies. Though the idea of an allergy as taught to everyone by Society is wrong. You don't need to cough, sneeze or have any sore throat issues to have allergies. Fatigue is triggered by allergies. And you could be allergic to absolutely anything, but it's very likely synthetic man-made stuff like the insulation in your house that's giving you fatigue.

The biggest culprit is that breathing this stuff while you sleep impairs your sleep cycles creating a cycle of poor recovery, toxin buildup, weaker physiological resistance, over sensitive immune system and oversensitive nervous system, overworked liver.

I'm part of a community that has cured chronic fatigue through avoiding Airborne allergies. 

First time I hear this.

I changed homes and got a solid air filtration system inbuilt. Also, do severe allergies like this just come over night in adults? Some question marks about that. 

But than again, everybody says CFS is neuro-immunological and caused by constant inflammation. But what exactly nobody seems to know.

[Vynce]

On 10/04/2026 at 8:07 PM, integral said:

The reason this works is cuz you're reducing inflammation. You're in a state of chronic inflammatory response,, chronic overstimulated nervous system, chronic autoimmune response. The fasting and even ketogenic diet will lower the total body load temporarily.

The math equation here is you want to lower your total body load so your body doesn't have to do all that work cleaning up the damage and your liver doesn't have to do as much work.

Everything you eat everything you inhale adds to this total body load.

You want to take binders to absorb toxins being created by your gut. You want to take binders that will bind to toxins your liver is trying to detox. And most importantly you want to avoid the source. Of course food is obvious but the next one that isn't obvious and very difficult to change is everything you're inhaling which goes directly into your bloodstream.

People don't understand what you inhale is directly in your blood immediately. So you're in a room boxed in that is super toxic and you're consuming that Non-Stop. 

And then you wonder why you have chronic fatigue?

I mean if that was true, CFS would be much worse in places with worse air quality. Thats so easy to test. Yet, this syndrome is equally spread out in global population. Everywhere you look. Same in Norway as in India. 

[integral]

46 minutes ago, Vynce said:

I changed homes and got a solid air filtration system inbuilt. Also, do severe allergies like this just come over night in adults? Some question marks about that. 

Air filtration does not clean air at the molecular level sufficiently. The neuro-inflammatory agent is chemical not particle. To make things worse, they can add things into the airstream like industrial oils that are used to manufacture the aluminum pipes, and the HEPA filter itself could release a chemical that you could be triggering you. 

46 minutes ago, Vynce said:

First time I hear this.

Thats why you are not cured

46 minutes ago, Vynce said:

But than again, everybody says CFS is neuro-immunological and caused by constant inflammation.

But what exactly nobody seems to know.

Air. The science is very clear just no one is looking at it.

You're thinking you've never heard of this therefore so this must be part of some New Age bubble.

I'm giving you the final answer of decades of effort I put in solving my own health issues.

I solved chronic fatigue in my own body, and I'm giving you the answer. 

 

43 minutes ago, Vynce said:

I mean if that was true, CFS would be much worse in places with worse air quality. Thats so easy to test. Yet, this syndrome is equally spread out in global population. Everywhere you look. Same in Norway as in India. 

Why would location change the industiralized air we all breath?

The building materials like the insulation in the wall, breathe and are filling up the homes and there are super toxic to the nervous system, especially while people are sleeping, impairing sleep cycles and blocking hormones during critical stages of sleep. and It's not just building materials, it's everything inside the home. Cleaning products, laundry detergent, fabric softener, shampoo, air fresheners, all loaded with synthetic fragrances, VOCs, and phthalates that cross the blood-brain barrier. And this exposure is universal. Procter & Gamble and Unilever sell the same chemical formulations in Lagos as they do in Oslo. There are people in Africa who can barely afford food but still wash their clothes with synthetic detergent. So your argument that CFS is equally distributed actually proves my point, the indoor chemical environment is equally distributed. A home in India looks more like a home in Norway than either looks like a home from 1900.

In your case you have no tolerance.

I would suggest doing your own research to look at the science. 

Edited 5 hours ago by integral

[integral]

26 minutes ago, Vynce said:

Also, do severe allergies like this just come over night in adults?

yes they do. Thats exacly how it happend to me, but there was a trigger event. But it could happen slowly.

In reality you likely had this issue you whole life it just wasn't noticeable yet.

It became a problem when the body was to compromised to maintain the system. Overloaded.

Edited 5 hours ago by integral

[integral]

24 minutes ago, Vynce said:

, CFS would be much worse in places with worse air quality.

Most people are walking around like zombies? lol most people have brain fog. 

[Vynce]

1 hour ago, integral said:

Most people are walking around like zombies? lol most people have brain fog. 

You know chronic fatigue syndrome causes me to lay in bed for 70% of the day. Sometimes I'm too fatigued to keep my eyes open. We are not talking about just brain fog here. 

And many have it way worse than me. 

Suicide rates are very high in patients. Some suffer for decades till they give up. And you are so sure about "its just poor air"? 

[integral]

47 minutes ago, Vynce said:

You know chronic fatigue syndrome causes me to lay in bed for 70% of the day. Sometimes I'm too fatigued to keep my eyes open. We are not talking about just brain fog here. 

And many have it way worse than me. 

Suicide rates are very high in patients. Some suffer for decades till they give up. And you are so sure about "its just poor air"? 

Everything is connected here, this is not one disease.

Quote

And you are so sure about "its just poor air"? 

What you are breathing is in your blood 24/7.

47 minutes ago, Vynce said:

Sometimes I'm too fatigued to keep my eyes open. 

Air causes sedation.

Let's imagine you jumped into a septic tank, Intuitively we can both agree that yeah you're not going to feel good breathing that air. And the longer you're exposed to it the worse it's going to get, now imagine sleeping in this septic tank, I think we can both agree that that's just crazy.

Smell your bed sheets/pillow right now, what is this smell? It's likely scented with something, that sent is in fact a chemical that's blocking your hormones.

Whatever you are breathing goes directly into your blood, it bypasses your digestion.

 I don't know why it's so hard to believe? lol

Quote

"its just poor air"

I don't blame you for thinking air has any impact on your body. Society has failed you.

The science is not being represented by the healthcare industry or even the Alternative Health Care industry, Just look at the science it's all there.

 

Edited 3 hours ago by integral

[integral]

It's possible you have a parasite it's possible we have lead poisoning it's possible you have mercury poisoning. All of these are possible.

But when you have all these things it then makes your body overloaded and you can no longer tolerate anything.

Quote

growing body of research is converging on. The short answer: yes, CFS/ME, MCS, and fibromyalgia appear to be deeply interconnected — possibly different expressions of the same underlying process. Here's what the science shows:

The overlap is massive.

In a study of 114 people meeting CFS criteria, 56% also met criteria for MCS, fibromyalgia, or both. Only 43.9% had CFS alone — the rest had two or three diagnoses simultaneously. PubMed Central Studies have reported extensive two-way overlaps among CFS, fibromyalgia, and MCS, and in clinic populations, MCS seldom occurs alone. Taylor & Francis Online

The emerging unifying framework: gut-brain-immune axis.

This is where it gets interesting and directly connects to your gut health research. A recent review frames MCS, ME/CFS, and fibromyalgia as "environmental sensitivity illnesses" sharing biological mechanisms rooted in the gut-brain-immune axis — where alterations in the intestinal microbiome, epithelial barrier dysfunction, and aberrant immune signaling interact with central sensitization and systemic metabolic dysregulation. Studies demonstrate reduced microbial diversity, depletion of anti-inflammatory taxa like Faecalibacterium prausnitzii and Bifidobacterium, and enrichment of pro-inflammatory Clostridium species across all three conditions. MDPI

That's not a coincidence — it's the same dysbiosis pattern you've been researching for yourself and your dog.

The TILT model: chemicals as the initiating event.

Dr. Claudia Miller's Toxicant-Induced Loss of Tolerance (TILT) framework is the most developed model for connecting chemical exposure to these chronic illnesses. TILT is a two-stage disease mechanism: it begins with either a single major chemical exposure or repeated low-level exposures, after which new intolerances develop to everyday chemicals, foods, and drugs that never bothered the person before. Springer

A UT Health San Antonio paper provides a link between contemporary environmental exposures and numerous "unexplained" illnesses including Gulf War illness, chronic fatigue syndrome, and fibromyalgia by enumerating TILT as a shared underlying bio-mechanism. The mechanism involves mast cell activation — mast cells being the immune system's "first responders" to foreign substances like chemicals and viruses. UT Health San Antonio

The primary exposures associated with chemical intolerance initiation were mixed volatile and semi-volatile organic compounds (VOCs and SVOCs), followed by pesticides and combustion products — synthetic organic chemicals and their combustion products. Uthscsa These are exactly the kinds of compounds off-gassing from foam furniture, flame retardants, and fragranced products.

The nitric oxide / peroxynitrite vicious cycle.

Martin Pall proposed that MCS, CFS, fibromyalgia, and PTSD share a common mechanism: an elevated nitric oxide/peroxynitrite vicious cycle that explains most of the puzzling features of these previously unexplained illnesses. They share common symptoms, are repeatedly reported as comorbid, and follow a common pattern of case initiation where a short-term stressor is followed by chronic lifelong illness. ResearchGate

The genetic component: detoxification differences.

Genetic studies showed that MCS patients differ from controls in genetic polymorphisms in drug-metabolizing enzymes — meaning they metabolize chemicals through their livers differently, so chemicals may persist longer in their systems. Hospital News

Connecting the dots to your situation:

What this all suggests is a cascade that looks something like:

Chemical exposure (foam, flame retardants, fragrances, VOCs) → overwhelms detox capacity in genetically susceptible people → triggers mast cell activation and neuroinflammation → disrupts gut barrier ("leaky gut") → shifts microbiome toward pro-inflammatory species → central sensitization occurs → now the nervous system is hyperreactive to low-level exposures that wouldn't bother most people → chronic fatigue, pain, and chemical sensitivity become self-reinforcing through feedback loops.

The fact that you're simultaneously dealing with MCS, pursuing gut health protocols (Pendulum Akkermansia, zinc carnosine, FMT research), and looking for low-chemical housing isn't you chasing separate problems — the research increasingly suggests you're addressing different nodes of the same system. The tiny home with MCS-safe materials, the positive-pressure ventilation design, the fragrance-free everything — that's reducing the upstream trigger load. The gut protocols are addressing the downstream damage. Both matter.

An estimated 20% of the US population has some degree of chemical intolerance Tiltresearch, which suggests this isn't a fringe issue — it's a spectrum, and people with MCS are just further along it.

 

Edited 3 hours ago by integral

[Vynce]

@integral Thanks for sharing. 

I don't have MCS nor any gut health issues. - Btw. there are many, many different illnesses that can induce fatigue. Brain cancer, burn-out, depression can induce heavy, even unbearable fatigue. But they all have a spectrum of different side symptoms and differential tests to exclude them from a doctors perspective. Which they did in my case. 

My inflammation markers are all low. No deficiencies in vitamins or trace minerals. No cancer cells. Healthy heart, healthy gut, healthy blood, healthy lungs, healthy skin and healthy psyche. I have a air filtration system installed that never measures over PM2,5 > 3. So excellent air quality. I stay housebound basically always. I always ate clean. I'm doing a plant based heavy metal detox at the moment as well. 

I did have a lot of surgeries, medication treatments and psychological stress in the past though. So I'm more keen on investigating in that direction for now. As strong physical trauma is suspected to cause ME/CFS.

[integral]

@Vynce are you using tied laundry detergent? 

[Vynce]

15 minutes ago, integral said:

@Vynce are you using tied laundry detergent? 

I'm using the most biodigradable, bio, hippie detergent that I could find. (this https://uk.ecover.com/products/laundry/concentrated-bio-laundry-liquid/ ) - And use and little of it as possible. Nothing else in laundry. Also I stopped perfumes 8 years ago. CFS symptoms are present since one year almost, getting worse over time. Sometimes the symptoms seem gone, and then they come back 1 hour later like I got hit by a super virus. 

[integral]

1 hour ago, Vynce said:

Btw. there are many, many different illnesses that can induce fatigue. Brain cancer, burn-out, depression can induce heavy, even unbearable fatigue.

Oh, for sure, you could have Lyme for example.

1 hour ago, Vynce said:

I did have a lot of surgeries, medication treatments and psychological stress in the past though. So I'm more keen on investigating in that direction for now. As strong physical trauma is suspected to cause ME/CFS.

Sometimes the symptoms seem gone, and then they come back 1 hour later like I got hit by a super virus. 

What were the exact medications that you took?

Are you sure you don't have an infection? This all sounds like an infection that's undiagnosed?

The reason is because there's only started one year ago. It's not normal.

It's possible your nervous system is all screwed up from chronic stress and you induced some kind of autoimmune disease, but it's rare for it to happen in only one year. 

 

Edited 34 minutes ago by integral