Leo, I Think Your Model of Reality Is Missing a Mechanism

[Monster Energy]

Leo’s view that everything is just infinite consciousness imagining perspectives is interesting, but it doesn’t really explain how different experiences become structured. If consciousness is completely unlimited, then why does reality show consistent patterns at all?

That’s where something like vibration or resonance starts to make more sense. If reality reflects the state that is being expressed, then patterns would naturally emerge through resonance. Similar states align with similar states, and over time that creates structure in experience instead of randomness.

 

 

 

 

 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Monster Energy

It is my understanding you think Leo's model of reality does not include vibration and resonance? 

[Leo Gura]

What has your vibration explained?

Reality is consistent because your psyche needs to be consistent for there to be a reality at all.

The consistency and stability of Reality is just the stability of your own mind.

You know what an unstable mind is like. That's when you dream.

Edited 6 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Monster Energy]

17 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Monster Energy

It is my understanding you think Leo's model of reality does not include vibration and resonance? 

Yes, that’s what I meant. 

 

[Monster Energy]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What has your vibration explained?

Reality is consistent because your psyche needs to be consistent for there to be a reality at all.

The consistency and stability of Reality is just the stability of your own mind.

But that still leaves the question open. If the stability of reality comes from the stability of the mind, then what determines the structure of that mind in the first place? My point was that resonance could be one way to explain why certain patterns in experience consistently align and repeat.

 

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, Monster Energy said:

If the stability of reality comes from the stability of the mind, then what determines the structure of that mind in the first place?

That's a deep Mystery.

Quote

My point was that resonance could be one way to explain why certain patterns in experience consistently align and repeat.

I don't see how that explains anything.

What patterns?

What does resonance mean? How does it work? Where does it come from? Why is it needed at all?

Edited 5 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Natasha Tori Maru]

24 minutes ago, Monster Energy said:

Yes, that’s what I meant. 

 

Gotcha - so resonance and vibration, for you, is not part of Infinity, or infinite consciousness? 

I think I do not understand how your claim holds under the term infinity. Infinity encompasses vibration and resonance, no?

Edited 5 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Monster Energy]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's a deep Mystery.

I don't see how that explains anything.

What patterns?

What does resonance mean? How does it work? Where does it come from? Why is it needed at all?

By patterns I mean recurring structures in experience. For example how certain states of mind tend to bring about similar environments, reactions, and relationships. By resonance I mean that similar states reinforce each other, like frequencies syncing. If consciousness has different states, then it’s plausible that experience organizes around those states rather than appearing completely random.

 

 

[Monster Energy]

9 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Gotcha - so resonance and vibration, for you, is not part of Infinity, or infinite consciousness? 

I think I do not understand how your claim holds under the term infinity. Infinity encompasses vibration and resonance, no?

I’m not saying resonance or vibration would exist outside of infinity. My point is more modest than that. Even if everything is ultimately infinite consciousness, that still leaves open the question of how experience becomes structured rather than chaotic. Resonance could simply be one way to describe how patterns of experience stabilize within that infinity.

 

[Inliytened1]

37 minutes ago, Monster Energy said:

But that still leaves the question open. If the stability of reality comes from the stability of the mind, then what determines the structure of that mind in the first place?

Mind is Infinity.  If its unlimited why would it need another layer to explain that layer?  That's an infinite regress. Because then you would have to explain that layer and the layer below it and so on.  So the ultimate answer is it is itself.  It is its own end.  That's what science gets wrong.

Edited 5 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Natasha Tori Maru]

21 minutes ago, Monster Energy said:

I’m not saying resonance or vibration would exist outside of infinity. My point is more modest than that. Even if everything is ultimately infinite consciousness, that still leaves open the question of how experience becomes structured rather than chaotic. Resonance could simply be one way to describe how patterns of experience stabilize within that infinity.

 

Gotcha I think your point is more nuanced than the title suggests - which was slightly misleading.

I think it's a mystery isn't it? Codependent arising of experience.

[Xonas Pitfall]

1 hour ago, Monster Energy said:

But that still leaves the question open. If the stability of reality comes from the stability of the mind, then what determines the structure of that mind in the first place? My point was that resonance could be one way to explain why certain patterns in experience consistently align and repeat.

It might be more like the puddle analogy.

“Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, ‘This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn’t it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!’ This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it still desperately hangs on to the notion that everything’s going to be all right, because this world was meant to have him in it.”

You can see this in simple cases. A chair designed by a human is more comfortable for another human than a chair designed by a monkey or an alien, because the designer had a butt shape similar to yours in mind. Likewise, you are more likely to become close friends with someone who speaks your language than someone who speaks a completely different one. A hammer designed for the human grip feels natural to use, while a tool designed for a different kind of hand would feel awkward. The tool works well because its structure matches the structure of the hand using it. Musical instruments and scales are created to sit within ranges that human ears perceive clearly and pleasantly, etc.

The same principle might apply more broadly.

You can think of it as starting with a form that wants to continue existing as that form. In other words, it has a bias toward maintaining itself rather than dissolving back into constant change, complexity, or infinity. It prefers stability over becoming something completely different.

Because reality itself is always changing and unstable, that form has to create or arrange more stable structures around itself in order to persist. It does this by selecting and reinforcing patterns that support its continued existence. In a sense, it “divides” and “materializes” parts of the world into structures that help stabilize it.

For example, a human form is biased toward materials that support its body and survival. Wood works better than water for sitting, so it is used to make a chair. Cement is more stable than wood for long-term shelter, so houses are built from it. Over time, the same process extends further: people organize systems for stable access to resources, and eventually even build governments or institutions that help maintain social stability and survival.

Something similar seems to happen even at the level of atoms! Certain atoms combine easily with others because those combinations form more stable structures. When atoms bond into molecules, they often become more stable than when they exist alone. Elements that cannot form stable structures tend to disappear quickly.

In this way, forms that want to continue existing tend to surround themselves with other structures that reinforce their stability. Patterns that support the form last longer, while patterns that do not eventually dissolve.

So I feel like it’s a self-looping bias. You come into a finite consciousness because that form is the only form that can provide that experience to you; it persisted long enough to become finite and maintain itself for some time, maybe 10 seconds, 5 months, 10 years, or 80+ years. And because of that, you will see supporting structures around yourself, since your brain and ego developed to recognize those things that help maintain you.

The form persists, and because it persists it learns to recognize and create the conditions that let it keep persisting. In that sense, it really is an ouroboros, feeding back into itself.

And I can only imagine that if you had something like a Donkey-Alien-Dog-Mix-Kubahu brain, you would probably see this same reality completely differently. The patterns you notice, the things that feel stable or meaningful, and the structures that seem important would all change depending on the kind of mind that is perceiving them.

It’s that initial bias “I want to remain, I want to be, I want to be stable, I want to persist in this finite form against the infinite” that can cause an infinite regress or a chain reaction of other finite forms to persist as well. So, I’m not sure if it’s “resonance” in the sense that sameness attracts sameness, but perhaps it tends to be stable if it has similar or complementary structures, or if it’s a form that can manipulate and bend to ensure its survival other lesser biased / weaker structures. Selfishness and Support (Love). Still, I think this is a very promising direction!

In a way, this also explains why you need “selfishness.” You need a phenomenon to construct a form out of indefinite; otherwise everything would remain undefined. And “selfishness” is a top-down human perspective. What we’re actually seeing is what happens when a finite form reconstructs the infinite into its own form to preserve itself.

Edited 4 hours ago by Xonas Pitfall

[Cred]

4 hours ago, Monster Energy said:

That’s where something like vibration or resonance starts to make more sense. If reality reflects the state that is being expressed, then patterns would naturally emerge through resonance.

I don't know if it is a coincidence, but I happen to be working on a field ontology, which affirms your intuition:

 

[Cred]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You know what an unstable mind is like. That's when you dream.

In a dream, the mind is only dissonant in regard to coherence. A dream is highly resonant in regard to meaning through symbolism, for example.

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Cred said:

A dream is highly resonant in regard to meaning through symbolism, for example.

Only sometimes.

[Cred]

@Leo GuraYes, a dream can also have "neutral resonance" which is just a neutral emotion or a phenomenon more broadly. Nature itself for example, thus not have inherent symbolic meaning, therefore the awe of the beauty of nature is what I would categorize as neutral resonance

[Cred]

Incoherence is also only ever defined relative to coherence. What is dissonant to one mind can be resonant to the other and vice versa. So non-coherence is not incoherence, it is non-resonance (in contrast to dissonance), which is stillness, which is emptiness.

[zurew]

4 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

  That's an infinite regress. Because then you would have to explain that layer and the layer below it and so on.  So the ultimate answer is it is itself.  It is its own end.

Infinite regress wouldnt follow though. It conceivable that there could be another layer that explains that layer and the layers could stop at that new layer.

I also dont necessarily see the issue with infinite regress. Just because its not satisfying or we culturally reject it or dont even entertain it , that doesnt mean that its impossible.

I dont subscribe to any of this, im just saying those are also options.

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Monster Energy said:

By patterns I mean recurring structures in experience. For example how certain states of mind tend to bring about similar environments, reactions, and relationships. By resonance I mean that similar states reinforce each other, like frequencies syncing. If consciousness has different states, then it’s plausible that experience organizes around those states rather than appearing completely random.

Consciousness is one continuous flow. Like a river. This river has a structure.

Why this structure vs some other is too complex for a human mind to comprehend.

[Cred]

The reason why reality is structured, is because it is not. There exists plenty of chaos, but these chaotic waves lead to destructive interference, and therefore annihilate each other, such that the only lasting waves are standing waves which are those who are in resonance with the respective systems.