What is Magic

[Ziran]

2 hours ago, ZGROPIUS said:

They charge money for their services

Yes, at best it's a window of opportunity.  There's almost always a relapse.   The best way involves deconstructing one's own demons.  It's innoculation.  A true remedy, a cure.

[VioletFlame]

Plot twist: Magic is life, being, & existence itself. 

Edited yesterday at 02:24 AM by VioletFlame

[ZGROPIUS]

On 2026/3/8 at 7:08 AM, ZGROPIUS said:

In the Taoist system, after reincarnation, memories are erased, and the soul is reborn as a human or animal. A person’s life is preordained, and things like the Eight Characters (Ba Zi) and the I Ching can precisely predict what will happen in a person’s life, including the future. The fate is meant. The life is a prison.

The life of a man is meant to go through enlightenment and cultivation, with the goal of becoming immortal. In the Taoist system, there are countless gods who assist their disciples with magic and help the mortal world. Statues and deities people worship, such as the Three Pure Ones, the God of Wealth, and the Earth God, are real gods. If a disciple achieves immortality, they too will help other disciples. This cycle continues endlessly.

My question is about the relationship and differences between the spirituality described in Taoism / the I Ching / the Eight Characters (Ba Zi) between New Age spirituality, not about completely denying and ignoring one side or forcing an ideology onto it. 

COME ON

Edited yesterday at 02:39 AM by ZGROPIUS

[BuffaloBill]

magic? according to dion fortune it is the ability to alter your consciousness at will 

[Ziran]

7 hours ago, ZGROPIUS said:

My question is about the relationship and differences between the spirituality described in Taoism / the I Ching / the Eight Characters (Ba Zi) between New Age spirituality

Again, new age spirituality is much closer to nei-dan, inner-alchemy.  The spirituality practiced by Daoist exorcists and sorcerers is folk-magic passed down through lineages. 

Edited yesterday at 10:18 AM by Ziran

[VioletFlame]

4 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

magic? according to dion fortune it is the ability to alter your consciousness at will 

Magic is consciousness itself. The fact that we have consciousness is magical. Existence itself is magic.

[ZGROPIUS]

On 2026/3/12 at 6:17 PM, Ziran said:

Again, new age spirituality is much closer to nei-dan, inner-alchemy.  The spirituality practiced by Daoist exorcists and sorcerers is folk-magic passed down through lineages. 

How to explain the Taoist sorcerer’s magic that’s strongly going on, that seems to have the power to actually affect everyone with the exact birth date and name of the person? And the worship of deities that continues for thousands of years until now—they say the magic is from the help of these gods they worship, and they can ask the gods to know the situation of the spiritual realm, such as: ‘Has the person with this information (birth time, name, picture) been cursed? What kind of demon? What’s the detail of the future about this thing?’ etc. What do the gods and devils that New Age talks about have to do with these gods?

 

[vibv]

On 12.3.2026 at 11:07 AM, BuffaloBill said:

magic? according to dion fortune it is the ability to alter your consciousness at will 

So, psychedelics are magic(?)

[Ziran]

59 minutes ago, ZGROPIUS said:

How to explain the Taoist sorcerer’s magic that’s strongly going on, that seems to have the power to actually affect everyone with the exact birth date and name of the person?

A detailed answer depends on the circumstances, a case-by-case evaluation.  

In general, a sorcerer is able to interact with primal and primordial energetic principles which universally co-exist within each individual.  These energetic principles go by varying names:  demons, spirits, gods, angels, messengers,  guides, aliens, Elohim...

Because the energetic principles co-exist, within and without, a competent sorcerer can locate a root or "vestige" of it within themselves or among the others which strongly corresponds, like hand-in-glove, with its vestige or root within the afflicted.   

But, to be clear,  accurate correspondence is culturally specific.

59 minutes ago, ZGROPIUS said:

And the worship of deities that continues for thousands of years until now—they say the magic is from the help of these gods they worship, and they can ask the gods to know the situation of the spiritual realm, such as: ‘Has the person with this information (birth time, name, picture) been cursed? What kind of demon? What’s the detail of the future about this thing?’ etc.

It's usually a version of scrying within a doaist lineage.  Some lineages have a patron/matron diety or dieties. 

See here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrying

59 minutes ago, ZGROPIUS said:

What do the gods and devils that New Age talks about have to do with these gods?

Most often they're referring to self-defeating-cognitive-traps.  A daemon, pre-computer-science.

[ZGROPIUS]

1 hour ago, Ziran said:

Most often they're referring to self-defeating-cognitive-traps.  A daemon, pre-computer-science.

New Age and Taoism claim different categories of gods, and the second one take more effective actions such as adjusting fate, cursing people, killing people, welcomming wealth and luck, and eventually becoming immortal. and being summond by future mortals. the other gods seem purely conceptual, and once one steps out of the state of god-consciousness or off the drugs. they are merely a mortal human. if two are all ture. then whyre they only practiced in isolation？

 

[Ziran]

25 minutes ago, ZGROPIUS said:

New Age and Taoism claim different categories of gods, and the second one take more effective actions such as adjusting fate, cursing people, killing people, welcomming wealth and luck, and eventually becoming immortal. and being summond by future mortals. the other gods seem purely conceptual, and once one steps out of the state of god-consciousness or off the drugs. they are merely a mortal human. if two are all ture. then whyre they only practiced in isolation？

On success, there is no pursuing.  No desire to pursue another path.

There's also the common Chinese axiom:  it's very difficult to navigate with "one foot in two boats".

Edited 1 hour ago by Ziran

[ZGROPIUS]

New Age and Taoism claim different categories of gods, and the second one take more effective actions such as adjusting fate, cursing people, killing people, welcomming wealth and luck, and eventually becoming immortal. and being summond by future mortals. the other gods seem purely conceptual, and once one steps out of the state of god-consciousness or off the drugs. they are merely a mortal human. if two are all ture. then whyre they only practiced in isolation？