The One And Only Absolute Truth.

[Joseph Maynor]

22 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

Why are you now questioning whether or not you exist, isn't it obvious?

Yes, by direct experience you exist.  

[James123]

1 hour ago, Mellowmarsh said:

Again, this is not about 'learning', as in the context of learning how to read words and sentences in a book, or learning to ride a bicycle.

It's about the irrefutable fact that you cannot doubt or deny your own existence. That you exist, is an absolute truth.

You know you exist, in contrast, it's impossible to know you do not exist. You don't learn to exist, just as you do not learn how to be born or learn how to die, nor does a baby learn how to walk. These things happen automatically.  There may well be no ego, or autonomous agent called 'me' here, and a 'you' there,  except as synthetically created ideas formed by language.

 

Nobody need bother to question whether they exist or not, it's just obviously an absolute fact.  Nobody needs to emphasize to anyone else that they could be wrong about their own existence, and vice versa. So James, keep your Epictetus quote out of this, as it's totally irrelevant to the subject topic. Thanks.

 

 

 

"You know you exist"? This is learning. Try to catch that knowledge. Try show, handle. What did you know before physical birth? 

2 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Could you clarify this?

Say aaa, and say aaa as you are saying.

[Joseph Maynor]

Just now, James123 said:

"You know you exist"? This is learning. Try to catch that knowledge. Try show, handle. What did you know before physical birth? 

Say aaa, and say aaa as you are saying.

Whaat?

[James123]

12 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Yes, by direct experience you exist.  

Actually, in direct experience, experience dissolves.

[Joseph Maynor]

1 minute ago, James123 said:

Actually, in direct experience, experience dissolves.

According to you, right?

[James123]

5 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

According to you, right?

No. That's an another experience. 

 

8 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Whaat?

Do not claim. Let the body talk. 

[Mellowmarsh]

14 minutes ago, James123 said:

"You know you exist"? This is learning. Try to catch that knowledge. Try show, handle. What did you know before physical birth? 

You do not learnt to exist. So I disagree. However, I have no problem with your truth that knowing you exist is learnt. That's your reality bubble, not mine.

[James123]

13 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

You do not learnt to exist. So I disagree. However, I have no problem with your truth that knowing you exist is learnt. That's your reality bubble, not mine.

I can't see the knowledge and thoughts. Most of the day, if I don't look at the mirror, I can't even see the body.

[Mellowmarsh]

27 minutes ago, James123 said:

"You know you exist"? This is learning. Try to catch that knowledge. Try show, handle. What did you know before physical birth? 

This thread is about knowing you exist due to the irrefutable fact that you are a thinking being.

It's got nothing to do with what did you know before birth. You cannot even know what has taken birth, or know what ultimately dies, all you can know is that you exist right now. It's to do with this immediate knowing, right here and now, presently. Right now, you know you exist. You cannot know what you do not know. You can know you do not know, but you cannot not know you do not know. 

You know you exist as a thinking being. That's an absolute truth, right here, right now, unavoidably so. 

[James123]

3 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

This thread is about knowing you exist due to the irrefutable fact that you are a thinking being.

It's got nothing to do with what did you know before birth. You cannot even know what has taken birth, or know what ultimately dies, all you can know is that you exist right now. It's to do with this immediate knowing, right here and now, presently. Right now, you know you exist. You cannot know what you do not know. You can know you do not know, but you cannot not know you do not know. 

You know you exist as a thinking being. That's an absolute truth, right here, right now, unavoidably so. 

Body is exist. But, existence and non existence arises and falls within You.

5 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

You cannot even know what has taken birth, or know what ultimately dies, all you can not know is that you exist right now

Exactly. But, correction 😊 

[Mellowmarsh]

4 minutes ago, James123 said:

I can't see the knowledge and thoughts. Most of the day, if I don't look at the mirror, I can't even see the body.

You don't need a mirror to know you exist.

 

[James123]

Just now, Mellowmarsh said:

You don't need a mirror to know you exist.

 

Where is this knowing take place?

[Mellowmarsh]

1 minute ago, James123 said:

Body is exist. But, existence and non existence arises and falls within You.

Body is known, in the exact same way the thought is known. This is how you know absolutely that you exist as a thinking being.

 

[Mellowmarsh]

23 minutes ago, James123 said:

Where is this knowing take place?

You don't need to ask where knowing is taking place. Knowing simply is, without doubt or error. You know you exist.

You cannot deny you exist. Knowing you exist cannot be unknown. Unknown, to me, simply means you do not know how you know you know.

But that's irrelevant, because all you can know is that you do know you exist, because you cannot know you do not exist.

I've been thinking about this a lot over the recent holidays, and have had a new epiphany into the insanity of denying your own existence.

 

 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Mellowmarsh

[Mellowmarsh]

19 minutes ago, James123 said:

all you can not know is that you exist right now

That correction is incorrect.

You cannot 'not know' what you already know. Which is right here and now, presently, in the immediacy of now, you know you exist, absolutely.

You can't undo this immediate knowing.  You can only know what you know, not what you do not know, because even knowing what you do not know is a knowing.

 

[James123]

22 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

You know you exist.

No. You do not know anything. Body knows survival.

22 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

I've been thinking about this a lot over the recent holidays, and have had a new epiphany into the insanity of denying your own existence.

 

Yes. Belongs to body and mind. Not You.

14 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

That correction is incorrect.

You cannot 'not know' what you already know. Which is right here and now, presently, in the immediacy of now, you know you exist, absolutely.

You can't undo this immediate knowing.  You can only know what you know, not what you do not know, because even knowing what you do not know is a knowing.

 

Where is it in deep sleep or before birth? What You are is always, always.

[LastThursday]

HNY.

A quick summary of the holes in the argument so far:

1. Are we talking about thinking (reasoning) or experiencing (prior to reasoning) here?

2. Is it possible to bring things into existence by pure reasoning?

3. How does reasoning bring itself into existence? Or is reasoning and existence the same thing?

4. If a truth is self evident and unquestionable, then how does an "absolute" truth differ?

5. An "absolute" truth presupposes other types of truth, what is "absolute" in opposition to?

 

[Ramasta9]

The battle of the non-dools lol 

- Actualized.org 

[James123]

13 minutes ago, Ramasta9 said:

The battle of the non-dools lol 

- Actualized.org 

No one is battling. He will realize sooner or later. And that's a help.