Stage Yellow vs Pyrrhonism

[Ampresus]

These two contradict each other. 
 

I had to refresh my memory with both to write this correctly. So if I got something wrong by all means correct me.

 

Pyrrhonism is all about lack of judgement. Was this decision right? I don’t know. Was it wrong? I don’t know. The lack of moral ground leaves room for inner peace. This can go meta though.

Lets take “observing the mind”. The pyrrhonist sees the “mind”, observes it, but doesn’t hold the position as “observer” being neither true or false. It’s skeptical right. So any statements about observing, Nothingness, God, what have you cannot be proven or disproven. Direct experience does not equal truth. 
 

Yellow starts similar. It agrees that no moral judgement is “true” or the right or wrong one perse. It all depends on what leads to integration. How can we make the whole system function? Whatever leads to big picture understanding becomes important. We start thinking in layers instead of taking “no position”. This serves a purpose according to Yellow. 
 

I am making this post because I personally want to understand it better. How does Yellow view Pyrrhonism? When do we use which to develop ourselves beyond? 

Edited 22 hours ago by Ampresus

[Leo Gura]

I'm not sure how to answer that. That's a strange juxtaposition.

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, Ampresus said:

I am making this position because I personally want to understand it better. How does Yellow view Pyrrhonism? When do we use which to develop ourselves beyond? 

Yellow would ask: What does Pyrrhonism serve? What goals and values do you have and is it compatible with those goals and values?

[Sugarcoat]

It can be held as ideal, but it’s important to be honest with yourself when you do judge, believe/disbelieve something or even hold it as true/not true. 
 

If you are presented with any kind of statement, you might notice that for many things you will lean in one direction or the other in terms of if you believe it or not. 
 

It’s like how it’s rare you’re truly neutral about something, for most things you’ll have a preference, even if it’s subtle, for it or not. 
 

You can adopt a kind of meta view that anything you experience is still happening within your limited perspective, so it might not be absolute. It still doesn’t disprove things like “trans fat is unhealthy” in this “relative” reality  but it can create some form of detachment to your views because you recognize for example that a lot has to do with definitions …

Edited yesterday at 03:57 PM by Sugarcoat

[Bjorn K Holmstrom]

You can frame it this way: Pyrrhonism is the immune system; Yellow is the muscle.

If you only have Pyrrhonism, you end up in a state of passive observation. You might be peaceful, but you cannot build a hospital, design a transit system, or write a constitution. You are paralyzed by the equal weight of all arguments.

If you only have Yellow (without the skepticism of Pyrrhonism), you risk becoming a "system builder" who falls in love with their own models and turns into a tyrant (sliding back into Blue/Orange rigidity)

When a stage Yellow thinker sees a blocked system (e.g., a political deadlock), they use Pyrrhonism to deconstruct the dogmas holding it back (neither side is absolutely right). Once the debris is cleared, they switch to systems thinking to build a functional solution (given the constraints, this path yields the highest integration).

@Leo Gura The strange juxtaposition you mentioned resolves when you realize they answer different questions:
Pyrrhonism answers: How do I find peace?
Yellow answers: How do I get things done?

TL;DR Relax in Pyrrhonism. Act in Yellow

Edited 19 hours ago by Bjorn K Holmstrom

[Leo Gura]

I just don't see much connection between these different things. Seems like you are trying to shoehorn them together.

How is pyrrhonism related to herding cattle?

[Bjorn K Holmstrom]

You're right, they are categorical opposites. That’s exactly why the synthesis is useful.

If I'm herding cattle (managing a complex system) with dogma (stage Blue/Orange), I get frustrated when the cattle don't follow my rules. I waste energy fighting reality.

If I inject Pyrrhonism (stage Yellow's immune system), I drop the shoulds. I stop fighting the cattle's nature. I just observe the appearances (the cow is moving left) and respond.

Pyrrhonism doesn't tell me where to herd the cattle, but it cleans the windshield so I can see where they are actually going. It turns herding from a struggle into a flow.

[Stick]

But most Shepard in history were stage blue. They herded pretty well without any ying yang shit. I think herding cattle isnt that serious as you make it out to be.

[SimpleGuy]

True skepticism is so tricky to understand. It really fucks your mind when you just come to know it for the first time