God's plan is a crock of shit

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Opulence said:

What's beyond it?

There is no beyond, there is reality unfolding in interconnected patterns in perpetual motion due to the essential instability of that which has no limits.

There is absolute being, and that is you, in the form of a human. Absolute being is not someone, it is being. What is because it's limitless.

There are not absolute limits, only relative. Good and evil are relative appearances, like anything that appears. If you want to place yourself in an absolute perspective, you have to go beyond good an bad, at least for a while. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

5 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Most of the Suffering us Humans feel is self made, yes some ppl are living in hell holes but many of them are at peace, I've listened to lots of first hand reports of ppl living in 3rd world countries that are basically okay, at peace, mostly because they don't know what they are missing lol, but are they really missing anything? The wealthiest societies are the most unhappy societies and are doing the worst things to each other and the planet!

This is the grand plan imo, the power players call them elites, want us this way, they want us to feel a sort of freedom when in reality we are not free at all.. The lost tribes in Africa and other places are more free than the avg. westerner!  We are slaves to time and the $$, the elites are slaves to Power and Control and are nuts!  But they set up our societies so that basically ppl suffer it in many levels..

They don't want us to know we have our own Power to control how we are within ourselves, cause when we find this out and experience it, then we are more empowered than they are and take back control which they do not want.. 

So just take care of Yourself first, fix what is broken (self start suffering, living in past/future, not accepting, etc) and then everything will be fine with You, then You can take on larger challenges!!

The difference isn't that we're worse politically but that in less developed societies, chaos, death, and disease are accepted. In our society, it's obligatory to be happy, fulfilled, good-looking, and take cool vacations. In another era, the Assyrians impaled an entire city for offending the local bigwig, but even so, their underlying mindset was much more connected, less narcissistic, and more direct.

Ancient elites weren't better than today's; political and religious powers were absolute tyrants, pharaohs who would skin you alive for looking at them in the face or warlords sitting on thrones made of their enemies' skulls surrounded by slaves. It wasn't a party; what changed was the attitude.

[Breakingthewall]

56 minutes ago, strangelooper said:

that definition of good to me is nurture, sure you can frame it as that which benefits us but that's not the main point it is just a consequence of good, it benefits.

There is no good and bad for a stone, because it doesn't need to preserve itself. It's good and bad for a bacteria, because it needs to protect itself, rebuild what's broken, reproduce, try to endure. Life is another phase of existence, and it's built upon fight. Then, evil is everywhere. 

[Ishanga]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The difference isn't that we're worse politically but that in less developed societies, chaos, death, and disease are accepted. In our society, it's obligatory to be happy, fulfilled, good-looking, and take cool vacations. In another era, the Assyrians impaled an entire city for offending the local bigwig, but even so, their underlying mindset was much more connected, less narcissistic, and more direct.

Ancient elites weren't better than today's; political and religious powers were absolute tyrants, pharaohs who would skin you alive for looking at them in the face or warlords sitting on thrones made of their enemies' skulls surrounded by slaves. It wasn't a party; what changed was the attitude.

Yes our history is not so pleasant, that point is that it doesn't have to be this way! We can continue to look back at the past and try to make things better but You cannot fix what is broken in already broken system, the system is rigged so the masses suffer, its mostly always been this way but it doesn't have to be this way today since we are so very much more technologically advanced (we can actually feed, cloth, house everyone on the planet) and have already set up systems to do this, is just a matter of will and high consciousness so that Profit and Control doesn't rule ppls minds and hearts!!

[strangelooper]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

There is no good and bad for a stone, because it doesn't need to preserve itself. It's good and bad for a bacteria, because it needs to protect itself, rebuild what's broken, reproduce, try to endure. Life is another phase of existence, and it's built upon fight. Then, evil is everywhere. 

Evil is indeed everywhere, things didn't have to be this way, they could have been designed differently. Meat could have grown on trees, Life wouldn't have to consume each other. There is always a solution to every design problem but god doesn't care. God is the infinity, and the infinity is the curse upon every possible sentient life for all eternity

[Ishanga]

1 minute ago, strangelooper said:

Evil is indeed everywhere, things didn't have to be this way, they could have been designed differently. Meat could have grown on trees, Life wouldn't have to consume each other. There is always a solution to every design problem but god doesn't care. God is the infinity, and the infinity is the curse upon every possible sentient life for all eternity

The design is perfect, and there is no "God" creator sitting around somewhere making decisions lol... The playing field is set up perfect, its US that the problem, not the playing field, once US is fixed then this is a paradise!! How do You know You are not already in paradise but messing it up by thinking your not???

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Ishanga said:

Yes our history is not so pleasant, that point is that it doesn't have to be this way! We can continue to look back at the past and try to make things better but You cannot fix what is broken in already broken system, the system is rigged so the masses suffer, its mostly always been this way but it doesn't have to be this way today since we are so very much more technologically advanced (we can actually feed, cloth, house everyone on the planet) and have already set up systems to do this, is just a matter of will and high consciousness so that Profit and Control doesn't rule ppls minds and hearts!!

Well, we are doing better . Just a few generations ago, slaves were sold in markets, entire populations were wiped out, and if you traveled without an army, you were killed or enslaved. Everyone considered it perfectly logical that the strong should subdue the weak. It's the law of life: eat or be eaten.

Now, there are attempts to soften this essential nature, but it underlies everything. The basic nature of life is brutal. Peaceful coexistence is not natural; tribal warfare and slavery are.

[Breakingthewall]

9 minutes ago, strangelooper said:

Evil is indeed everywhere, things didn't have to be this way, they could have been designed differently. Meat could have grown on trees, Life wouldn't have to consume each other. There is always a solution to every design problem but god doesn't care. God is the infinity, and the infinity is the curse upon every possible sentient life for all eternity

Reality unfolds in the most optimal way possible. From subatomic particles interacting to Donald Trump on Epstein's island, to you seeing it all as a big shit. It's absolute perfection.

[Ishanga]

25 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Well, we are doing better . Just a few generations ago, slaves were sold in markets, entire populations were wiped out, and if you traveled without an army, you were killed or enslaved. Everyone considered it perfectly logical that the strong should subdue the weak. It's the law of life: eat or be eaten.

Now, there are attempts to soften this essential nature, but it underlies everything. The basic nature of life is brutal. Peaceful coexistence is not natural; tribal warfare and slavery are.

I wouldn't say natural, I would say Peaceful coexistence is not Profitable so it doesn't happen.. Yes parts of nature are brutal, brutality has to exist if Ease exists and visa versa, all potentials have to exist somewhere right, but for Human Beings we have way more ability to choose, we haven't because of many reasons, wrong identifications, low consciousness overall for the masses and their leaders/elites, etc etc..

To know if something is natural, it has to be Life Empowering, if its life empowering (promotes life to grow, expand, its healthy and empowered) then its natural, what we got going on over since the birth of humanity is not natural for the most part...

Proof of this is if Humanity were to vanish right now, the planet would Flourish, this happened temporarily during covid and lockdowns!!

Edited 3 hours ago by Ishanga

[RisingLane]

47 minutes ago, Gigsi said:

Does anyone here actually understand why extreme suffering is justified?

It’s neither justified nor unjustified—suffering is just a side effect of becoming self-conscious. Self-consciousness is both a blessing and a curse. The good news is that this self-conscious state can fade before death, and eventually, it will for everyone, only to return again.

[strangelooper]

39 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Reality unfolds in the most optimal way possible. From subatomic particles interacting to Donald Trump on Epstein's island, to you seeing it all as a big shit. It's absolute perfection.

it doesn't. everything exists, every possible unfoldment. If every possible unfoldment is optimal, it is optimal because? optimal by what standard? Sure through the eyes of the creator it may look optimal because it has no standards and no other, no preferences so any old turd goes. how is this optimal. It is entirely subjective whether it is optimal.or not, otherwise what is the objective standard.

Edited 2 hours ago by strangelooper

[Breakingthewall]

23 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

I wouldn't say natural, I would say Peaceful coexistence is not Profitable so it doesn't happen.. Yes parts of nature are brutal, brutality has to exist if Ease exists and visa versa, all potentials have to exist somewhere right, but for Human Beings we have way more ability to choose, we haven't because of many reasons, wrong identifications, low consciousness overall for the masses and their leaders/elites, etc etc..

To know if something is natural, it has to be Life Empowering, if its life empowering (promotes life to grow, expand, its healthy and empowered) then its natural, what we got going on over since the birth of humanity is not natural for the most part...

There's a concept that defines the essential nature of the universe: fine-tuning. Everything happens in the most optimal way possible. If there were a more optimal way, it would happen. Your current thinking that human society isn't optimal is actually the most optimal possibility.

This doesn't mean being passive; on the contrary, if someone has the impulse to change things, that impulse is a consequence of fine-tuning. But if you want to put yourself in a broader perspective for a while, you have to be able to see things from the outside, without human bias.

Then it's clear that the level of optimization in reality is beyond comprehension. It's a self-regulating system that spontaneously finds the optimal option from a global perspective. Perhaps Hitler and Auschwitz don't seem like optimal possibilities, nor do mass extinctions or cancer, but they are. That's doesn't mean that I don't care if I have cancer in the brain, just understanding the panorama from outside of our preference, even that preference is inevitable because it's genetically incoded 

[strangelooper]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

There's a concept that defines the essential nature of the universe: fine-tuning. Everything happens in the most optimal way possible. If there were a more optimal way, it would happen. Your current thinking that human society isn't optimal is actually the most optimal possibility.

This doesn't mean being passive; on the contrary, if someone has the impulse to change things, that impulse is a consequence of fine-tuning. But if you want to put yourself in a broader perspective for a while, you have to be able to see things from the outside, without human bias.

Then it's clear that the level of optimization in reality is beyond comprehension. It's a self-regulating system that spontaneously finds the optimal option from a global perspective. Perhaps Hitler and Auschwitz don't seem like optimal possibilities, nor do mass extinctions or cancer, but they are. That's doesn't mean that I don't care if I have cancer in the brain, just understanding the panorama from outside of our preference, even that preference is inevitable because it's genetically incoded 

can you explain why cancer is an optimal possibility when in some other reality in infinity there is no cancer and there it is optimal that there is no cancer? There is in infinity a reality that is the exact same as this and the difference is that there is no cancer. is that reality less optimal? if so why?

[Ishanga]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

There's a concept that defines the essential nature of the universe: fine-tuning. Everything happens in the most optimal way possible. If there were a more optimal way, it would happen. Your current thinking that human society isn't optimal is actually the most optimal possibility.

This doesn't mean being passive; on the contrary, if someone has the impulse to change things, that impulse is a consequence of fine-tuning. But if you want to put yourself in a broader perspective for a while, you have to be able to see things from the outside, without human bias.

Then it's clear that the level of optimization in reality is beyond comprehension. It's a self-regulating system that spontaneously finds the optimal option from a global perspective. Perhaps Hitler and Auschwitz don't seem like optimal possibilities, nor do mass extinctions or cancer, but they are. That's doesn't mean that I don't care if I have cancer in the brain, just understanding the panorama from outside of our preference, even that preference is inevitable because it's genetically incoded 

I understand this, and You explain it well.. From an Absolute perspective the design is perfect, like I said to Strangelooper, its not the design that is the problem, is is You and Me.

It all has to filter down to your Subjective/Relative Experience okay, all of what You said is fine, the opportunity for optimization is there for sure, but WE have to decide it for our Wellbeing, for our own Optimization! If I am suffering in any way, then that is not going to happen, less optimization will happen and that will reflect in everything around us, hence why we have a climate change problem and are in a 6th extinction event already, that is not Optimal!! 

So that is why take care of Your own Well Being first, since we human dominate the planet, then if we all do this, this will be a paradise, not only for Us but all life!

Edited 2 hours ago by Ishanga

[Ishanga]

4 minutes ago, strangelooper said:

can you explain why cancer is an optimal possibility when in some other reality in infinity there is no cancer and there it is optimal that there is no cancer? There is in infinity a reality that is the exact same as this and the difference is that there is no cancer. is that reality less optimal? if so why?

Cancer is just another Possibility and Potential, as is optimal health and no cancer.. Most Cancer and disease come from Stress, being in constant stress, some are genetically more susceptible to Cancer and other health conditions, but if no Stress was in their life, no Suffering, the chances of getting cancer/ill is way way less.. but if health is a Possibility so is disease, if one exist so does the other...Its not an outside force making it happen, its just potentials coming to life or not... 

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, strangelooper said:

everything exists, every possible unfoldment.

Not everything, just whats possible and optimal. There is not a reality where half of all beings are Donald Trump and the other half are Epstein, and they all live in harmony, in love. What exists is the unfolding of possible potential at its most optimal level. Look at the laws of the universe, the cosmological constant, it's 10 rised to -122, if it were 10 rised to -121 our universe would be a soup without form. 

This is not the design of a god nor a coincidence, it is the most optimal option making its way, the synchronicity happening because what is not synchronized to infinity is not possible. 

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Cancer is just another Possibility and Potential, as is optimal health and no cancer.. Most Cancer and disease come from Stress, being in constant stress, some are genetically more susceptible to Cancer and other health conditions, but if no Stress was in their life, no Suffering, the chances of getting cancer/ill is way way less.. but if health is a Possibility so is disease, if one exist so does the other...Its not an outside force making it happen, its just potentials coming to life or not... 

Everything you say is correct from a human perspective, and the desirable thing, at least for me, would be a world without cancer or injustice, and the wisest thing is to strive for that. But from an absolute perspective, stress, disease, injustice, slavery, pedophilia, and the torture of children at the hands of their mothers, in the case of it occurs, is the most optimal option for the becoming of reality. It's an absolute realization, something that you can see now, not an idea. the reality is developing right now, this is the developing of reality, me now writing this, and maybe tomorrow I am paralyzed, retarded and psychotic screaming in a hospital, and that's would be the most optimal development of the reality 

[Breakingthewall]

13 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

but WE have to decide it for our Wellbeing, for our own Optimization! If I am suffering in any way, then that is not going to happen, less optimization will happen and that will reflect in everything around us, hence why we have a climate change problem and are in a 6th extinction event already, that is not Optimal!! 

Totally agree, An essential part of the spiritual path is striving for what is best for me: letting go of burdens, choosing the right path, avoiding negative or destructive behaviors, and seeking the fullest development of my potential at all times.

[strangelooper]

12 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Not everything, just whats possible and optimal. There is not a reality where half of all beings are Donald Trump and the other half are Epstein, and they all live in harmony, in love. What exists is the unfolding of possible potential at its most optimal level. Look at the laws of the universe, the cosmological constant, it's 10 rised to -122, if it were 10 rised to -121 our universe would be a soup without form. 

This is not the design of a god nor a coincidence, it is the most optimal option making its way, the synchronicity happening because what is not synchronized to infinity is not possible. 

yes there is such a reality. you are unenlightened, infinity which is every possibility exists, no matter how crooked or retarded.

[Ishanga]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Everything you say is correct from a human perspective, and the desirable thing, at least for me, would be a world without cancer or injustice, and the wisest thing is to strive for that. But from an absolute perspective, stress, disease, injustice, slavery, pedophilia, and the torture of children at the hands of their mothers, in the case of it occurs, is the most optimal option for the becoming of reality. It's an absolute realization, something that you can see now, not an idea. the reality is developing right now, this is the developing of reality, me now writing this, and maybe tomorrow I am paralyzed, retarded and psychotic screaming in a hospital, and that's would be the most optimal development of the reality 

What other perspective can we go for? If You say a Absolute one, isn't it done thru the vehicle of being Human? If You were not Human but an Ant, then there is no realization via an Absolute or Relative Perspective, so to be Human means You can do either or, You have to choose.. Root Yourself in the Absolute, realize everything is One and Complete and Optimized, but experience it thru the Relative and Express it thru the Relative, don't stay stuck in Absolute as that is not exactly what is what, as everything filters down to Relativity, from Subtle (Absolute) to Gross (Relativity)... We choose from which one to root ourselves in!! To Be Human is too be Absolute Embodied!!

Edited 2 hours ago by Ishanga