What about 2nd, 3rd, 4th Gen immigrants?

[Apparition of Jack]

According to the current immigration debate, there seems to only exist pure-blooded locals who’ve existed in that exact same piece of land since animals first walked out of the primordial oceans, or hyper-new arrivals who’ve only been in the country for six hours and don’t speak a word of English / French / German / etc.

But what about the people descendant from previously-established migrant communities, who might have some cultural ties to their relative’s home country but are otherwise thoroughly integrated into mainstream society? 
 

Like, where does someone like Andrew Yang or Kim Kardashian fit into these debates? You’d be hard pressed to say either of those aren’t fully American citizens, but their parents, grandparents or even great-grandparents were, at one point, immigrants.

It always feels weird to me that it’s only a dichotomy between like, full native white Brits / Americans / Canadians / Germans etc, and fresh arrivals from India / Nigeria / Honduras etc. What about the people who don’t fit into either category? It’s crazy that these people aren’t more part of the discussion. 
 

What do you guys think?
 

 

[Elliott]

The immigration debate is about racism. We have a ton of immigrants in my city, they assimilate, they love the u.s..

There is an influx and infrastructure limit to immigration though; we have a housing shortage. The ironic thing- illegal immigrants build housing, legal immigrants don't.

I understand Europeans resisting immigration, it's the second smallest 'continent'', but the u.s. is mostly empty. That being said, open up free trade and you lessen the need for immigration - plenty of options, the racists choose every racist one...

[Apparition of Jack]

8 minutes ago, Elliott said:

The immigration debate is about racism. We have a ton of immigrants in my city, they assimilate, they love the u.s..

There is an influx and infrastructure limit to immigration though; we have a housing shortage. The ironic thing- illegal immigrants build housing, legal immigrants don't.

I understand Europeans resisting immigration, it's the second smallest 'continent'', but the u.s. is mostly empty. That being said, open up free trade and you lessen the need for immigration - plenty of options, the racists choose every racist one...

The other dumb thing is that these politicians never talk about the CAUSES of immigration.

People blamed Merkel for taking in 1.5 million Syrians - as if Syria wasn’t experiencing a brutal civil war (which in my crackpot understanding was influenced by the destabilisation of Iraq by the US a few years earlier, but whatever) and that these people should’ve just… disappeared off the face of the earth or something.

It’s the same thing with people complaining about “military-age males” immigrating from Africa - yeah, no shit, these men are fleeing because they DONT WANT TO FIGHT IN TRIBAL WARS (there’s like a dozen raging right now, it’s fucked.)

The dipshit anti-immigration nationalist doesn’t understand that we live on a single planet. Borders are only conditional at best.

The ACTUAL best way to reduce immigration would be to support stabilising policies in poorer nations and invest in economic opportunities there, so people don’t become desperate enough to try their hand at Europe / North America for a better life. But would these idiots ever actually do that too? No, instead they’re usually the morons SUPPORTING foreign military campaigns into these unstable countries and do shit like cut USAID (where do you think all the people USAID keeps alive are going to go for safety? Heres a hint: it’s not Cambodia.)

We live on one planet. Events in Ghana or Columbia influence what happens in Europe or America. Shutting yourself off isn’t just morally questionable, it just straight-up backfires.

[Elliott]

6 minutes ago, Apparition of Jack said:

The other dumb thing is that these politicians never talk about the CAUSES of immigration.

People blamed Merkel for taking in 1.5 million Syrians - as if Syria wasn’t experiencing a brutal civil war (which in my crackpot understanding was influenced by the destabilisation of Iraq by the US a few years earlier, but whatever) and that these people should’ve just… disappeared off the face of the earth or something.

It’s the same thing with people complaining about “military-age males” immigrating from Africa - yeah, no shit, these men are fleeing because they DONT WANT TO FIGHT IN TRIBAL WARS (there’s like a dozen raging right now, it’s fucked.)

The dipshit anti-immigration nationalist doesn’t understand that we live on a single planet. Borders are only conditional at best.

The ACTUAL best way to reduce immigration would be to support stabilising policies in poorer nations and invest in economic opportunities there, so people don’t become desperate enough to try their hand at Europe / North America for a better life. But would these idiots ever actually do that too? No, instead they’re usually the morons SUPPORTING foreign military campaigns into these unstable countries and do shit like cut USAID (where do you think all the people USAID keeps alive are going to go for safety? Heres a hint: it’s not Cambodia.)

We live on one planet. Events in Ghana or Columbia influence what happens in Europe or America. Shutting yourself off isn’t just morally questionable, it just straight-up backfires.

The U.S. has been Sabotaging Latin America since forever, bombing the middle east. And the west enslaved Africa...

Now, going into the technology age we're reliant on all these other regions for specific resources and yet we're still so racist we treat them like "mongrols". Driving them right into China and Russia's hands.

[Ulax]

28 minutes ago, Elliott said:

The immigration debate is about racism. We have a ton of immigrants in my city, they assimilate, they love the u.s..

There is an influx and infrastructure limit to immigration though; we have a housing shortage. The ironic thing- illegal immigrants build housing, legal immigrants don't.

I understand Europeans resisting immigration, it's the second smallest 'continent'', but the u.s. is mostly empty. That being said, open up free trade and you lessen the need for immigration - plenty of options, the racists choose every racist one...

Its not only about racism, its also about reasonable fears about what type of characters share your community.

I'm sure you will agree that it is very important how citizens are socialised from birth, i.e. what they are taught is right or wrong, whether to respect those different to oneself. The issue with immigration is you are letting people into your country who you haven't had a chance to mold into the type of citizen you want. And that opens up the risk of letting in poorly socialised people into your country and that causing problems. 

[Elliott]

11 minutes ago, Ulax said:

Its not only about racism, its also about reasonable fears about what type of characters share your community.

I'm sure you will agree that it is very important how citizens are socialised from birth, i.e. what they are taught is right or wrong, whether to respect those different to oneself. The issue with immigration is you are letting people into your country who you haven't had a chance to mold into the type of citizen you want. And that opens up the risk of letting in poorly socialised people into your country and that causing problems. 

 

There definitely needs to be a robust vetting process. The worst of the worst obviously want to come here.

I interact with first generation immigrants from around the world, went to school with them. The rest of the world is just as civilized and MORE civilized in some ways.

People do not immigrate by punching a ticket at a vending machine, they're vetted and interviewed; and when they step out of line they get deported.

Edited yesterday at 01:22 AM by Elliott

[Ulax]

45 minutes ago, Elliott said:

The rest of the world is just as civilized and MORE civilized in some ways.

 

[Elliott]

18 minutes ago, Ulax said:

 

 

 

Racist

 

 

 

 

Axios

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March 13, 2025 - The former spiritual adviser to President Trump resigned last year after being accused of molesting a 12-year-old girl

 

[Ulax]

4 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Racist

Bro come on 😂

The bruddah said he was gonna chop his head off 😂

---

Fair point about the molesting dude though. Stage reds be everywhere.

Instead, i'd argue there are numerous societies where the dominant culture is less developed than in western democracies, i.e. much more stage red, blue, purple etc. So, i'd argue that disproves your argument that other cultures are just as civilised.

Edited yesterday at 02:30 AM by Ulax

[Elliott]

10 minutes ago, Ulax said:

Bro come on 😂

I was going to reply just "I said "and more civilized"...."

 

Really though, look at how these "savages" welcomed this white guy. If this is supposed to be your example of uncivilized, now consider ahmaud arbury was from the same community as his killers.

Edited yesterday at 02:30 AM by Elliott

[Elliott]

@Ulax

We have Somalis and Hatians here, communities, I eat at their restaurants where their servers barely know english and everyone else eating there is an immigrant. I'm white by the way. Food I've never heard of.

[Ulax]

7 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Really though, look at how these "savages" welcomed this white guy.

If someone welcomes me to their house, then later threatens to chop my head off for talking too much, then how they welcomed me isn't gonna matter much in my evaluation of them. No one civilised threatens to chop someone's head off for talking too much.

If this is supposed to be your example of uncivilized, now consider ahmaud arbury was from the same community as his killers.

If your argument is that you can find examples of similar uncivilised folk in the US, then fair point.

(Bolded to distinguish my reply)

Edited yesterday at 02:36 AM by Ulax

[Ulax]

1 minute ago, Elliott said:

@Ulax

We have Somalis and Hatians here, communities, I eat at their restaurants where their servers barely know english and everyone else eating there is an immigrant. I'm white by the way. Food I've never heard of.

Nice! I grew up in London, Uk. And I enjoyed going to restaurants run by people from different cultures too.

[Elliott]

27 minutes ago, Ulax said:

(Bolded to distinguish my reply)

If your argument is that you can find examples similar uncivilised folk in the US, then fair point.

Further than that, I consider some people here less civilized. Heck, even some of our prison systems; especially when you consider some innocent people get locked up, you said anyone threatening to chop a head off for talking, but we put people in feces and bed bug ridden cells that didn't do anything, This tribal guy agreed to meet with these people, assuming peacefully if the guy just shut up. It seems like a pretty foreign and scary meeting for the tribal guy he may just be trying to maintain a strong image because he's scared. He gave him a gift...

Edited 23 hours ago by Elliott

[Ulax]

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

Further than that, I consider some people here less civilized. Heck, even some of our prison systems; especially when you consider some innocent people get locked up, you said anyone threatening to chop a head off for talking, but we put people in feces and bed bug ridden cells that didn't do anything, This tribal guy agreed to meet with these people, assuming peacefully if the guy just shut up. It seems like a pretty foreign and scary meeting for the tribal guy he may just be trying to maintain a strong image because he's scared. He gave him a gift...

You make some insightful points but I think you downplay the severity of the threat he makes.

[Elliott]

2 minutes ago, Ulax said:

You make some insightful points but I think you downplay the severity of the threat he makes.

Look up the sect, it's a religious sect in India. They don't kill people. What you fell for was commercialized racism to sell a TV show. 'Aghori'

[Ulax]

27 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Look up the sect, it's a religious sect in India. They don't kill people. What you fell for was commercialized racism to sell a TV show. 'Aghori'

Where did I make the claim that they kill people?

Edit: Oh i guess you mean the implication from the video title

Edited 21 hours ago by Ulax

[Elliott]

2 minutes ago, Ulax said:

Where did I make the claim that they kill people?

I mean his threat was just rhetorical, he was just messing with the reporter. It wasn't a real threat.

Edited 21 hours ago by Elliott

[Jacob Morres]

@Apparition of Jack as someone with firsthand experience as an indian-american (born in raised in america), utterly shocked at how quickly perception changed towards my diaspora. Many days i dont even feel people even consider me american anymore. It sucks

I was literally so pissed about the model minority myth a few years ago and how racist that was. But now im like jesus that is 100x better than whatever shit we got now ☠️. Get the model minority myth shit back lol

😮‍💨 

For indians particularly, the way i understand why the immigration debate went viral is bc:

Indians are a minority but unlike black&hispanic people, the left doesnt have the white savior complex about them bc of their  socioeconomic success. So the left doesnt care so much to defend them. So theyre an easy target to hate on

I did notice there has been a mild backlash to the backlash but it's very little. Im somewhat concerned for the diaspora it feels like its in danger 

Edited 17 hours ago by Jacob Morres

[BlueOak]

We are talking about millions of people integrating successfully as a society together, or not.
Not some fringe group that eat people unrelated to any of the countries in question.

Racism has been empowered. Its a sickness and it's destabilizing the world. 
Its been linked to masculinity successfully by those pushing for a multipolar world, where each country is a homogenous single race, and represented somehow in harmony on the world stage. So what does this disney-like view of the world look like in practice.

Borders fought over. Minorities persecuted. Genocide.  

Its led to Trump turning on Europe to cut it up, and trying to ethnically cleanse America bit by bit. Its led to israel genociding Palestinians. Its led to Russia killing off its ethnic population in Ukraine. Chinese butchering Uyghers and their culture, other countries trying to align borders based on ethnicity or crush those that are not part of their dominant state culture etc

If I hated the 20's. I am going to loathe the 30's.

Edited 17 hours ago by BlueOak