Why "science-based lifting" is irrational

[Carl-Richard]

12 hours ago, Jannes said:

They never lean down for a bodybuilding show though. They would loose a lot of muscle.

GPT that too. My impression is that the top bodybuilders and top strongmen share FFM both in hypothetical on and off season, I don't see why the strongmen would have a harder time in principle keeping muscle were they to slim down. Interestingly, sumo wrestlers have been measured at a similar FFM. That further underscores my point: being the top in anything mass-related, tends to produce same levels of mass.

 

12 hours ago, Jannes said:

And generally Powerlifter and Strongmen will have phases or asseccory work of hypertrophy training. 

 

And they also do 1 RM yet same mass.

 

12 hours ago, Jannes said:

You usually need more time to for rest to refocus in between sets if you use very heavy loads and lighter loads also seem to be about twice as hypertrophic per set if you can trust the study that Jeff Nippard mentioned in that video you posted.

I'll say my spiel again for SBL: if you want to conclude what is "optimal" for hypertrophy, basically all studies that exist are bullshit.

Edited 9 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Jannes]

15 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

GPT that too. My impression is that the top bodybuilders and top strongmen share FFM both in hypothetical on and off season, I don't see why the strongmen would have a harder time in principle keeping muscle were they to slim down. Interestingly, sumo wrestlers have been measured at a similar FFM. That further underscores my point: being the top in anything mass-related, tends to produce same levels of mass.

They would have a harder time to keep the muscle while loosing the fat if it turns out that higher rep training is more hypertrophic then strength training, but thats the basis of our discussion I believe. 

15 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

And they also do 1 RM yet same mass.

Well a mix of strength training and hypertrophy and constant "bear mode" will get you far ofc. 

Btw. Eddie Hall and Brian Shaw are strongmen though. In strongmen events you do mostly exercises where you need strength endurance. 1 rep maxes dont train that optimally. They likely train mostly in the hypertrophy range anyway.

I dont think Olympian BB are always the pinnacle of maximum muscle development when I think about it, some symmetrie and proportion is important. Greg Kovac, despite being arguably the biggest BB ever never placed highly because of it. A big gut often carries with it more muscle, but its unaesthetic. 

15 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I'll say my spiel again for SBL: if you want to conclude what is "optimal" for hypertrophy, basically all studies that exist are bullshit.

Well that makes a basis for argumentation pretty small. 

Btw. do you think that all intuitive training will lead to strength based training?

What do you think about the Golden Age bodybuilder who did lots of sets. They didnt have the science so they trained in a way that intuitively felt good. And then Mike Mentzer the science guy came along with his one set high intensity style lol. 

There is a calisthenics icon which I cant find anymore unfortunately. He collabed with Jeff Nippard and I believe Frank Yang at some point. He does his own intuitive training style and does unholy amounts of volume every day. 2020 pull ups to new year and stuff like that. What do you make of that?

Edited 3 hours ago by Jannes

[Michal__]

Theres  also a huge difference between natty programming and steroid programs.

Naturals have to focus all their effort on progressive overload whereas steroid assisted lifters have to focus more on all fancy scientific rep and set ranges .