What's the point of trying to understand reality, if reality is mystical?

[Inliytened1]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

The explanation is long but absolutely obvious. If you want, I'll tell you.

In short, yes, neurons create what we call consciousness, 

Whats the process.  If its science you should be able to explain it scientifically.  Meaning if reality is material or made of atoms then science should explain everything.   But science cannot explain that process.  Because the process is mystical. Making reality mystical. 

Edited 19 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

9 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

You can see how this is circular and almost says nothing because one didn't 'pick a lane' here, so to speak.

That's great that you think that you are so smart, shows good self confidence and it's very good, but maybe you should ask what I meant instead that's showing your teacher attitude. Are you sure that you have understood? Maybe not.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

That's great that you think that you are so smart, shows good self confidence and it's very good, but maybe you should ask what I meant instead that's showing your teacher attitude. Are you sure that you have understood? Maybe not.

It's not that I think I am smart - I just tried to unpack how I understood your statement so you could clarify further if there was something else do add, or I maybe something I missed in my interpretation?

You know what? Don't worry yourself about it. It is more than evident you are not open to discussion. 

No offence was meant. 

[Breakingthewall]

9 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Whats the process.  If its science you should be able to explain it scientifically.  Meaning if reality is material or made of atoms then science should explain everything.   But science cannot explain that process.  Because the process is mystical. Making reality mystical. 

Mystic vs material means nothing. Reality is not made of atoms. Atoms are made of protons and neutrons, which in turn are made of quarks bound together by gluons, which in turn are local vibrations of the quark field and the gluon field, and these fields are vibrational possibilities of reality, meaning they are fields of possible potentiality.

Science can understand reality because, ultimately, the foundation of reality is the absence of limitations, from which coherent relationships arise. What is certainly impossible is a god who is bored and dreams dreams to live adventures, for many obvious reasons. The first one, that god would be limited to that will .

 

[Breakingthewall]

9 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

- I just tried to unpack how I understood your statement so you could clarify further if there was something else do add, or I maybe something I missed in my interpretation?

Really? Then I didn't read properly your post, seemed to me that you said that what I said is absurd, without having understood it. 

[Ellonek]

Understanding is secondary to experience, sometimes we get it twisted... We should value understanding as far as it refines our experience, understanding for the sake of understanding is a dead end imo.

[Breakingthewall]

12 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

This statement also treats neurons as 'constructs of reality' but also 'reality in concrete form'. So you are treating neurons as physical objects in reality, a 'construct' of something deeper and simultaneously the same as that deeper thing.

Sorry for my reply before, It's been reactive and stupid, but nobody's perfect.

Let's see, whatever form reality takes is reality, you'll agree. Form and essence are two aspects of the same thing.

When I say that consciousness is a concrete form that reality takes, it's because what we call consciousness requires two premises. One, duality perceived, apparent or real. A perceiving subject vs perception is necessary. And two, a record of reality, a system that compares, records, and projects.

Imagine that your memory is completely erased, the ability to store information, your senses are completely disconnected, there is no sensation whatsoever. Your brain is in a fetal state, but without any physical sensation. Could you say that consciousness exists? Existence exists, you are, but there is no what we call consciousness, your consciousness is zero.

Reality organizes itself into increasingly complex forms if possible coherence allows it. Fields, energy, matter, atoms, molecules, self-replicating complex molecules, life, brains, symbology, technology, etc.

Life is a phase shift in which, within a universe governed by certain laws, a self-preserving system emerges, creating its own particular laws. This gives rise to a duality between that system and the external universe. Life evolves by creating brains, which in turn create an interface between the internal and external systems. For example, vision. Everything you see is a creation of your brain, based on the reception of photons by your retina. This creation is a vibration of reality on many levels, creating a duality between a center that observes and needs to preserve itself and an external world that is observed. This interface reality is no less real than the external one; there are no categories of reality, it is simply reality in a particular form. It's exactly as real as anything else, but creates a center that is perceiving and knows. 

This perceiving center is also the reality. Whatever exists is reality in its unlimited possibilities and forms. Therefore, consciousness is reality observing and registering itself. It is not an illusion, but neither is it the foundation of reality.

[Inliytened1]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Mystic vs material means nothing. Reality is not made of atoms. Atoms are made of protons and neutrons, which in turn are made of quarks bound together by gluons, which in turn are local vibrations of the quark field and the gluon field, and these fields are vibrational possibilities of reality, meaning they are fields of possible potentiality.

Science can understand reality because, ultimately, the foundation of reality is the absence of limitations, from which coherent relationships arise. What is certainly impossible is a god who is bored and dreams dreams to live adventures, for many obvious reasons. The first one, that god would be limited to that will .

 

Yet science can't explain how neurons create consciousness.

So..yes...at the rock bottom of reality there is just pure potentiality.  Thats correct.  Because it's Infinity..as you know.

So..but think about it.  Why would reality need a mechanism if its Infinite.  And how would its parts create it..meaning how could a finite part create the whole thing. How could neutrons create consciousness.   Riddle me that.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

Why would reality need a mechanism if its Infinite.  And how would its parts create it..meaning how could a finite part create the whole thing. How could neutrons create consciousness.   Riddle me that.

Reality needs nothing and desires nothing; possible possibilities emerge.

The potential is limitless, and what is possible emerges. There is no god who decides to create people to play with. There are no decisions, only the boundless unfolding of the possible. 

There is not part and whole, there are coherent stable patterns that are possible. The part is a whole and the whole is a part, because there are not limits. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Inliytened1]

57 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Reality needs nothing and desires nothing; possible possibilities emerge.

The potential is limitless, and what is possible emerges. There is no god who decides to create people to play with. There are no decisions, only the boundless unfolding of the possible. 

There is not part and whole, there are coherent stable patterns that are possible. The part is a whole and the whole is a part, because there are not limits. 

If the potential is limitless then reality could need and could desire.  Don't trip over your own words.  You also didn't answer my question on how neurons can create consciousness. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

5 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

If the potential is limitless then reality could need and could desire.

In reality, desire may exist, but reality itself cannot desire, since desire implies limitation

6 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You also didn't answer my question on how neurons can create consciousness. 

I explained above

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

In reality, desire may exist, but reality itself cannot desire, since desire implies limitation

I explained above

Saying reality can't desire implies limitation not the other way around.   Desire doesn't imply limitation that is something you are sneaking in or projecting. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

I explained above

You did not.  What is fhe mechanisms which neurons create consciousness.   You cannot explain this because the process is obviously magical.  Try thinking about it for yourself. 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

Saying reality can't desire implies limitation not the other way around.   Desire doesn't imply limitation that is something you are sneaking in or projecting. 

You think that the absolute is an entity and it isn't 

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

You did not.  What is fhe mechanisms which neurons create consciousness.   You cannot explain this because the process is obviously magical.  Try thinking about it for yourself. 

I explained in the post to natasha

You think consciousness is something special because you are a human that is conscious of itself . It's simply reality configured in a dual mode, in dynamic relation to an external world, with an evolutionarily implanted need for self-preservation and the capacity to register becoming and symbolism. It's the same as a stone, only several layers of complexity higher. Consciousness is a mode of reality; reality is conscious of itself through you, not "reality is consciousness and it's dreaming you."

Edited 2 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Inliytened1]

13 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You think that the absolute is an entity and it isn't 

 

Saying it is or isn't something would limit it.  It is Infinite.   So stop doing that.   It doesn't have to be an entity to feel or desire - it creates the appearance of an entity when rather it is the thing itself that feels and desires. Not an entity.  An entity is an illusion. 

 

13 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

 

 

You think consciousness is something special because you are a human that is conscious of itself . It's simply reality configured in a dual mode, in dynamic relation to an external world, with an evolutionarily implanted need for self-preservation and the capacity to register becoming and symbolism. It's the same as a stone, only several layers of complexity higher. Consciousness is a mode of reality; reality is conscious of itself through you, not "reality is consciousness and it's dreaming you."

No stop assuming what I think.  I asked you how chemicals in the brain make consciousness and you couldn't tell me.  That tells me that consciousness isnt in the brain to begin with.  Perhaps it is fundamental.

Edited 2 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

9 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

No stop assuming what I think.  I asked you how chemicals in the brain make consciousness and you couldn't tell me.  That tells me that consciousness isnt in the brain to begin with.  Perhaps it is fundamental.

i explained but ok. First define consciousness 

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

i explained but ok. First define consciousness 

Define Infinity.  Because they are the same. 

So this is how ludicrous your claims are. 

Neurons in the brain create Infinity. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

17 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Define Infinity.  Because they are the same. 

So this is how ludicrous your claims are. 

Neurons in the brain create Infinity. 

Yes, of course, if for you consciousness means infinity, then its different . I thought that you meant consciusness, you know? Perception, being conscious, awareness. Not Infinity. You should tell infinity instead to avoid confusion .

Anyway, infinity usually means something that has not end, for example the numbers are infinite. 

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes, of course, if for you consciousness means infinity, then its different .

 

 

Well that's the whole discussion right? Is it something more than what can come out of materials.  Like neurons.  Do you think that? That it is just some random scientific process? And again it you do you should be able to explain how neurons make it happen.  

[Breakingthewall]

7 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Well that's the whole discussion right? Is it something more than what can come out of materials.  Like neurons.  Do you think that? That it is just some random scientific process? And again it you do you should be able to explain how neurons make it happen.  

There is no difference between material or anything, matter is just a form of the reality. What you call consciousness is created by the brain and sensory organs, which are a form of reality, a hyper-complex universe of energetic fluctuations that creates a field of reality, acting as an interface between the living organism and the outside world.

This field of reality records the unfolding of events and projects into the future, and can, at any given moment, perceive the ultimate essence of what is. This field of reality is reality itself, since any part is the whole. But it is a form, not the foundation.