Talking to Atheist

[Mellowmarsh]

15 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Mellowmarsh suffering is the greatest teacher and tool.  

Yes. 🙏

 

 

[Mellowmarsh]

James you can’t assert Leo doesn’t know what he’s talking about without asserting James doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

Or maybe there’s just talking ( noise) appearing, heard as the same subject topic, but being heard in many different ways as there are translations.
 

It’s all just this known auditory illusion of light and sound. The illusion is known because illusion cannot be not known. 
There’s no sound without silence, and vice versa, both are contingent upon the other to exist. 
 

 
 

 

 

[James123]

18 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

This is just more not-knowing truth claims. It’s arriving at the clarity of not-knowing knowing.

You’ve never known death. Death is unknowable. Life is not- knowing knowing, that which is unknown, not unknowable, as that which is unknown will eventually become known. But that which is unknowable can never be known.

Are you not alive first, knowing death ? Or are you dead first, knowing life?

 

What’s the difference, except as the same appearance, appearing different?

 

What came first the chicken or the egg?

I died. Body is it's own. 

That's enlightenment.

just follow Leo at the beginning. He is stuck within experiencing. 

Body is with entire universe, cosmos, existence. Yet You are none. 

Anything and everything arises falls within You, yet You are none.

Peace.

[Mellowmarsh]

15 minutes ago, James123 said:

I died. Body is it's own. 

That's enlightenment.

just follow Leo at the beginning. He is stuck within experiencing. 

Body is with entire universe, cosmos, existence. Yet You are none. 

Anything and everything arises falls within You, yet You are none.

Peace.

I disagree that Leo is stuck. Leo asserts very well that experience is all there is and that no one is experiencing experience.

Leo is talking about the exact same thing you’re talking about. It’s just different that’s all, it’s all just the same difference where there is no difference. The same one Love action dreaming difference where there is none.

[Mellowmarsh]

27 minutes ago, James123 said:

I died. Body is it's own. 

That's enlightenment.

just follow Leo at the beginning. He is stuck within experiencing. 

Body is with entire universe, cosmos, existence. Yet You are none. 

Anything and everything arises falls within You, yet You are none.

Peace.

It’s like you are saying that everything arises from death and falls to death.

Everything comes from death and returns to death. And death is God.

The body being the thing that is the rotting corpse of God.

Paraphrasing the German philosopher “Philip Mainlander” who too committed suicide along with his God.

 

R.I.P. 
 

Peace. 

 

[James123]

8 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

It’s like you are saying that everything arises from death and falls to death.

Everything comes from death and returns to death. And death is God.

The body being the thing that is the rotting corpse of God.

Paraphrasing the German philosopher “Philip Mainlander” who too committed suicide along with his God.

 

R.I.P. 
 

Peace. 

 

I would like to add one more thing.

The reason why we are talking or breathing is love.

Love can not be experienced separately, but you die for Truth, then, body, environment, moment becomes love.

That's the all purpose of creation.

Surrender, die before you die.

Don't resist. Do not hold even a single knowledge, experience. Disseappear, let go what makes you you, let go all.

Be free, flow.

Let the body dance with existence.

Peace.

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Mellowmarsh said:

Leo asserts very well that experience is all there is and that no one is experiencing experience.

What we call experience is the flow of change taking a dual form, a self-preserving system within another system in constant flux.

The self-preserving system we call life divides change into events to orient itself. This is experience, but ultimate reality is what makes that constant change inevitable, not change itself.

Change is manifestation; the essence of change is limitlessness. Limitlessness is reality; change is the relative movement that inevitably appears within it.

[Mellowmarsh]

@Breakingthewall Nice! 

[Inliytened1]

30 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

What we call experience is the flow of change taking a dual form, a self-preserving system within another system in constant flux.

The self-preserving system we call life divides change into events to orient itself. This is experience, but ultimate reality is what makes that constant change inevitable, not change itself.

Change is manifestation; the essence of change is limitlessness. Limitlessness is reality; change is the relative movement that inevitably appears within it.

But is change the fabric of reality or is it just the now. The present moment and everything else is just the mind.  You are that now but you're Infinity so u must step outside of yourself to imagine other.  That is change. 

Edited November 21 by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

17 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

But is change the fabric of reality or is it just the now.

Change is relationship, is the inevitable fluctuation that happens due the inherent Instability of unlimitedness. There cannot be a stable state without limits that contain it. 

20 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You are that now but you're Infinity so u must step outside of yourself to imagine other.  That is change

Change happen without other, it's inevitable. "Other" happens Because relationships/vibrations/changes of state overlap in infinitely coherent patterns, creating dimensions upon dimensions, space, time, consciousness, universes upon universes.

"You" are not doing that "for" you are that. It is incredibly difficult to understand the absence of self from the perspective of the self. There is no center or intentionality; that would be limiting. There is an explosion of coherent relationships in all directions.

Seeing this is not enlightenment; perceiving from the human self what you essentially are, is. You are total openness. Anything else you perceive, such as a creator with intention, is a projection of the tensional energetic node we call the self.

But the point is not knowing that you are total openness, is perceiving now what total openness is. The human self is an eye of the absolute looking itself. It doesn't happen because the absolute "wants" but because there are not limits.

[Inliytened1]

33 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Change is relationship, is the inevitable fluctuation that happens due the inherent Instability of unlimitedness. There cannot be a stable state without limits that contain it. 

 

But what is relationship? You struggle and will go in circles with words because of infinity or unlimitedness because you are trying to capture the Infinite with the finite.  What we can here is simply make pointers at the Absolute.   But change is imaginary.  Experience is imaginary because you are imagining experience right now. 

Edited November 21 by Inliytened1

[Hojo]

Were you never an athiest?

[Breakingthewall]

27 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

But what is relationship?

Relationship means change. Any change is a relationship between states, a fluctuation. 

 

28 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You struggle and will go in circles with words because of infinity or unlimitedness because you are trying to capture the Infinite with the finite

I don't think I'm struggling, just trying to transmit a vision. I'm not trying to capture, but understand the dynamic, it's different. 

29 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

What we can here is simply make pointers at the Absolute

Sure, try to see what im pointing. 

38 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

But change is imaginary.  Experience is imaginary because you are imagining experience right now. 

No, "you" are a human construct that implies a center. Reality is centerless. That is the challenge, not another. 

[Mellowmarsh]

On 20/11/2025 at 1:49 PM, James123 said:

I don't believe in god, where is it?

Where the fuck are you 😂 😂 😂 😂 

Without a need to constantly remain attached to ideas and beliefs, the clarity of your formless form recognises the truth of itself - with nothing to confirm or ever deny.

There is no i, no you, no we, no life. Everything is one. The rest is story, beliefs. 
 

The belief of God is once removed as the dissolution of illusory relationship.

Eh!

 

I value your opinion James. 

[Mellowmarsh]

10 hours ago, Ramasta9 said:

This is the danger with neo-nonduality and mental awakening without awakening of the heart.

How can you tell there has been “an awakening without awakening to the heart” ?

 

 

[Inliytened1]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Relationship means change. Any change is a relationship between states, a fluctuation. 

 

I don't think I'm struggling, just trying to transmit a vision. I'm not trying to capture, but understand the dynamic, it's different. 

Sure, try to see what im pointing. 

No, "you" are a human construct that implies a center. Reality is centerless. That is the challenge, not another. 

Can you capture this moment. Right now? It's gone ..but is it?  It's one eternal moment.  And its you.  You are the eternal.   I'm thinking of a cat right now.  So that's what I am "Being" to suggest change is to suggest a past and a present which is already a duality.   I think maybe we are saying the same thing.  Consciousness is one fluid eternal miracle.  But is unchanging in that there is only now.

Edited November 21 by Inliytened1

[James123]

42 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

There is no i, no you, no we, no life. Everything is one. The rest is story, beliefs. 
 

When this deeply known (actually known is a wrong word, I don't know how to explain) maybe correct word is deeply digested, then there is no question arises "who am I etc...""" or answer arises "I am god etc..".

44 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

The belief of God is once removed as the dissolution of illusory relationship.

Exactly. But not actually removed, but dropped, surrendered.

45 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

Without a need to constantly remain attached to ideas and beliefs, the clarity of your formless form recognises the truth of itself - with nothing to confirm or ever deny.

Exactly. It is You, but it has no name, explanation, birth, death, experience.

Anything that we came to this day happens via mind / action. When mind drops, what is there?

Any attempt to find an answer via book, video, via experience, action etc.. belongs to mind.

In this universe non of the things that can help to find it. Universe / existence is the matrix. 

Matrix must be surrendered and entire matrix is based on action.

Only way is actionless. Not even trying to meditate or trying to reach psychedelics to realize something. 

That's what real meditation is.

[Mellowmarsh]

1 minute ago, James123 said:

When this deeply known (actually known is a wrong word, I don't know how to explain) maybe correct word is deeply digested, then there is no question arises "who am I etc...""" or answer arises "I am god etc..".

Exactly. But not actually removed, but dropped, surrendered.

Exactly. It is You, but it has no name, explanation, birth, death, experience.

Anything that we came to this day happens via mind / action. When mind drops, what is there?

Any attempt to find an answer via book, video, via experience, action etc.. belongs to mind.

In this universe non of the things that can help to find it. Universe / existence is the matrix. 

Matrix must be surrendered and entire matrix is based on action.

Only way is actionless. Not even trying to meditate or trying to reach psychedelics to realize something. 

That's what real meditation is.

Perfect! 💯 

 

 

[Mellowmarsh]

( Y (our) E ) You’re = Father = God Energy = Perfect.

 

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

53 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I'm thinking of a cat right now.  So that's what I am "Being" to suggest change is to suggest a past and a present which is already a duality.

Exactly, what you are being is an energetic node created from countless structural layers of reality called the human self or if you prefer, the experience. it is a manifestation of reality, and as such, it is the essence of reality manifesting itself.

Enlightenment is opening up that tension that converges at a center so that the total nature of reality can manifest. It is not a creator, nor a center, nor an intelligence, nor a will; it is a total opening that exists because it has no limit. Enlightenment is not a realization; it is an action, a shift in the frequency of the self. Who is "enlightened" is the self, being enlightened means being a human self that's open to it's absolute nature.