It’s not about money.

[Apparition of Jack]

Basically, that’s my entire political philosophy in a nutshell.

Republicans don’t seem to grasp this. Money is only a tool for improving life; it is not life itself. 
 

We have created more money than ever - by some many millions of multitudes - but what good is all that if your roads are crumbling, your people are starving, your workers are homeless, and everyone is stressed to the brim? 
 

Money is useful, yes. It helps distribute resources. But it’s only ever subservient to the main of goal of human survival and flourishing - what good is a society worth trillions and trillions of dollars if your average citizen dies of cancer because they can’t afford chemo? Once you’re dead, you can’t bring your money with you. We need to put people before profit.

 Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

Society is not a charity. You can't change the system just by "gimme gimme pls" kind of attitude

[Ishanga]

Money, and the idea of having more than others to make Yourself feel "Special" is out of date, no longer works and creates a situations where the majority are suffering while a very tiny few benefit as we see today in the world.. 

But very few can see another way to do things, all the ones that are supposedly here to help make things better, are still using the same system that has created the problems in the first place.. Our systems are such that the majority of ppl suffer whatever actions, be it corrective actions or otherwise, that come about. 

But we created these systems in the first place to help society function better for the masses, so its time to change things, get rid of money, capitalism, all isms, and start fresh, so everyone has a chance to live with the basics, food, shelter, clothing, and a chance to find out what we really are, not slaves to a job or corporation, just trying to keep Your head above water daily!!

[Eskilon]

@Apparition of Jack The thing is, this system is artificial misery.

The central banks & government can literally print out infinite money. Granted, that`s not to say it wouldn`t create problems, but if you really look into it, money doesn`t even exist. Get that. Money is not tied to gold anymore -- meaning the bank can lend money that it doesnt have.

Money is literally created out of nothing, its just digits on your screen. The reason you don`t have a billion dollars right now is because the rulling elite doesn`t want to. But if they really want it, you could have a billion dollars right now and there would be NO consequences whatsoever because theres no scarcity of money -- it`s infinite.

Essentially, scarcity is a lie, and people suffer because the elite are selfish bastards and want to maintain their power at the expense of others.

 

Edited 19 hours ago by Eskilon

[Apparition of Jack]

2 hours ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

Society is not a charity. You can't change the system just by "gimme gimme pls" kind of attitude

Using Maszlow’s Hierarchy of Needs, we, especially in the developed world, have more than enough raw resources to give everyone the basic necessities of food, shelter and medicine. The Industrial Revolution basically eliminated scarcity as we know I and we’re at a point where we have more food, steel etc than we know what to do with (just look up the Green Revolution for reference.)

The problem is we still see these things as commodities to be sold for profit, rather than the base needs that everyone needs to, well, not die. Healthcare, for instance, has made absolutely insane strides in effectiveness over the last 40 years - we could easily give everyone that needs it access to their insulin, physical therapy, chemo treatments without even breaking a sweat, but because, at least in America, these things are locked away behind corporate paywalls for the express purpose of making a profit, countless people simply don’t receive these and too many people die each year as a result. 
 

This isn’t about “freebies” or “gimmies”, it’s about upholding the social contract - you support society through your work, contribution, good efforts, etc and in return society looks after you when you need it. Otherwise, whats even the point of having a society in the first place? We may as well return to caveman politics of just killing each other over resources instead. There’s also the basic compassionate argument too - why even have all this explosion of technology, wealth etc if no one even gets to see it? How does handing billions of public dollars to tech oligarchs to buy more yachts and private jets help anyone, other than their limited ego? 
 

An alien looking down on earth would be baffled by our current setup. Some of our hardest working and crucial people (nurses, teachers, frontline workers etc) get some of the least amount of social support, while people like Mark Zuckerberg- who literally weaponises human addiction to get people stuck on their phones all day - gets billions of dollars for keeping everyone miserable and paranoid. 
 

This is nothing to say of the pure human talent being lost under the capitalist paradigm. I guarantee you, there is the next Mozart, the next Einstein or Ada Lovelace working a dead-end job in a Walmart or factory somewhere, forced to barely keep their head afloat as all their meagre wages go to looking after their grandma with cancer rather than actually providing massive value to the world by following their passion.

Basically, this current setup exists to parasitically suck the life out of actual, productive, meaningful work, in favour of pursuing tech-oligarch pipedreams and financial delusions for stockholders whilst the world around them goes to shit.

Where is all our new highways? Our new libraries, concert halls, observatories, national parks, public pools, bridges, ports, airports, schools, universities, museums? They don’t exist, despite the economy supposedly “ballooning” over the last 20 years. Why does society become so absurdly productive that even a Roman Emperor at its height looks like a mere peasant, yet it continues to flounder and get worse year after year?

Something’s got to give. Too many decent, regular people are starving, getting sick, getting homeless, and dying for this to make any sense. At some point you have to accept the individualist paradigm is destroying society and that if we as a species are to survive and evolve, we have to get rid of our highly antiquated ideas of individual profit selling useless goods that fundamentally don’t make the world a better place.

Things can get so much better, we just have to wake up to that fact. 

 

Edited 18 hours ago by Apparition of Jack

[Apparition of Jack]

2 hours ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

Society is not a charity. You can't change the system just by "gimme gimme pls" kind of attitude

To add to this, if society isn’t a charity, what is it?

[Ishanga]

12 minutes ago, Apparition of Jack said:

Using Maszlow’s Hierarchy of Needs, we, especially in the developed world, have more than enough raw resources to give everyone the basic necessities of food, shelter and medicine. The Industrial Revolution basically eliminated scarcity as we know I and we’re at a point where we have more food, steel etc than we know what to do with (just look up the Green Revolution for reference.)

The problem is we still see these things as commodities to be sold for profit, rather than the base needs that everyone needs to, well, not die. Healthcare, for instance, has made absolutely insane strides in effectiveness over the last 40 years - we could easily give everyone that needs it access to their insulin, physical therapy, chemo treatments without even breaking a sweat, but because, at least in America, these things are locked away behind corporate paywalls for the express purpose of making a profit, countless people simply don’t receive these and too many people die each year as a result. 
 

This isn’t about “freebies” or “gimmies”, it’s about upholding the social contract - you support society through your work, contribution, good efforts, etc and in return society looks after you when you need it. Otherwise, whats even the point of having a society in the first place? We may as well return to caveman politics of just killing each other over resources instead. There’s also the basic compassionate argument too - why even have all this explosion of technology, wealth etc if no one even gets to see it? How does handing billions of public dollars to tech oligarchs to buy more yachts and private jets help anyone, other than their limited ego? 
 

An alien looking down on earth would be baffled by our current setup. Some of our hardest working and crucial people (nurses, teachers, frontline workers etc) get some of the least amount of social support, while people like Mark Zuckerberg- who literally weaponises human addiction to get people stuck on their phones all day - gets billions of dollars for keeping everyone miserable and paranoid. 
 

This is nothing to say of the pure human talent being lost under the capitalist paradigm. I guarantee you, there is the next Mozart, the next Einstein or Ada Lovelace working a dead-end job in a Walmart or factory somewhere, forced to barely keep their head afloat as all their meagre wages go to looking after their grandma with cancer rather than actually providing massive value to the world by following their passion.

Basically, this current setup exists to parasitically suck the life out of actual, productive, meaningful work, in favour of pursuing tech-oligarch pipedreams and financial delusions for stockholders whilst the world around them goes to shit.

Where is all our new highways? Our new libraries, concert halls, observatories, national parks, public pools, bridges, ports, airports, schools, universities, museums? They don’t exist, despite the economy supposedly “ballooning” over the last 20 years. Why does society become so absurdly productive that even a Roman Emperor at its height looks like a mere peasant, yet it continues to flounder and get worse year after year?

Something’s got to give. Too many decent, regular people are starving, getting sick, getting homeless, and dying for this to make any sense. At some point you have to accept the individualist paradigm is destroying society and that if we as a species are to survive and evolve, we have to get rid of our highly antiquated ideas of individual profit selling useless goods that fundamentally don’t make the world a better place.

Things can get so much better, we just have to wake up to that fact. 

 

Very Nice and absolutely Correct... I really think the problem is ppl, the ones in charge and the avg person, for some reason cannot see beyond what is there now, ppl are so used to money, having to buy things, "working hard", so called freedoms like freedom of travel and buying what you want, saying what You want, they cannot see other ways to do things, where there is not so much gap between the have's and have nots, and the income gap that we have today..

I used to think $25/hr was big money, now it is nothing, in Toronto You have to make $35/hr just for a basic one bedroom apartment and living expenses, just basic living, and that is a high wage here, very few are making that, min wage is $17.40/hr, so the majority are living of that, with more than one job and basically Modern Day Slaves!!!

We could do much much better, as You said we have the resources to feed, clothe, house everyone, we don't because its not Profitable to Do That, which is indication of our General Consciousness level, which is very low, we are still Cave Men Consciousness wise, which is also super sad since all this time has passed...

[Twentyfirst]

Yes, pay more taxes to the government. This accomplishes two things

1. You will have less money and weaken yourself

2. The government will have more money and will use it to weaken you

Brilliant thesis 

Edited 18 hours ago by Twentyfirst

[Apparition of Jack]

8 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Yes, pay more taxes to the government. This accomplishes two things

1. You will have less money and weaken yourself

2. The government will have more money and will use it to weaken you

Brilliant thesis 

Do you really complain about every time you drive on a highway that isn’t full of holes (or worse, armed bandits)? Do you really complain every time your house catches on fire and the firefighters show up within minutes, saving all your possessions, completely free of charge?

It’s like Benjamin Franklin said, the only inevitability in life is death and taxes. Taxes aren’t the problem, it’s how they’re distributed. And in this case, they’re funded to give corporations even more and more power over our lives, while the things they’re supposed to do (you know, actually provide for us) goes completely ignored.

For what it’s worth, I’m not saying our tax system is perfect. Believe it or not, I actually generally support cutting income taxes for low and middle-income workers, precisely because they’re the ones who need more of their own money to pay for necessities. My goal however is to completely upend the current financial system dominated by labyrinthian, unelected private entities whose interests aren’t aligned with humanity as a whole’s. The money exists, it’s just most people never see it.

[Ishanga]

32 minutes ago, Apparition of Jack said:

Do you really complain about every time you drive on a highway that isn’t full of holes (or worse, armed bandits)? Do you really complain every time your house catches on fire and the firefighters show up within minutes, saving all your possessions, completely free of charge?

It’s like Benjamin Franklin said, the only inevitability in life is death and taxes. Taxes aren’t the problem, it’s how they’re distributed. And in this case, they’re funded to give corporations even more and more power over our lives, while the things they’re supposed to do (you know, actually provide for us) goes completely ignored.

For what it’s worth, I’m not saying our tax system is perfect. Believe it or not, I actually generally support cutting income taxes for low and middle-income workers, precisely because they’re the ones who need more of their own money to pay for necessities. My goal however is to completely upend the current financial system dominated by labyrinthian, unelected private entities whose interests aren’t aligned with humanity as a whole’s. The money exists, it’s just most people never see it.

Governments are puppets to Corporate Power and Elites that run the world, they have the True Power.  Listen, whatever Government is in place is only in place a short time (4-5 yrs), they cannot change things that much anyways, and the basic policy is this, Protect the Rich, protect the Power Players, the ones that have been on top of the Power Latter for decades, not a few years here and there...

And its not about Government and Taxes anyways, the whole system is corrupt, meaning it is against the masses, and for the Few Elites...

Everything has to change, get rid of Governments, Taxes, Money System, how we are currently Educating Kids, Universities and Degrees (another big scam), religion and churches (scam city)... all of it has to go, there are systems that can be put into its place and change things, problem is it won't happen fast, nor will those unconscious ppl (the majority) understand or want to change things, fear will rule, and we may die out before all of this can happen anyways (Extinction Event already happening)!

[Apparition of Jack]

@Ishanga

This is why I see expanding democracy as so important. The more accountability, the more oversight and public scrutiny to our governments, corporations, militaries etc. the less likely corruption will take hold and the less likely private interests will be able to capture our systems for their own ends.

In some sense, what we need is a cultural shift, not just a political one. People need to start valuing their own communities, societies, political rights, health, education etc more than they care about some hypothetical mansion or yacht that, let’s be real, we all know is never going to come. 
 

If we valued growth, integrity, survival, culture, art, family, romantic relations etc more than we valued consumerism, cheap highs, social status, sports cars etc we wouldn’t be in this mess. But here we are.

The problem is, the systems that uphold these materialistic pursuits are breaking down. Stage Orange consumerism might have worked in the 70s, when an average job could get you a decent house and it was genuinely much easier to work your way up to high wealth, but with the changes in population, corporate power, spread of materialism and status-seeking through social media, etc this “dream” has basically turned into a fantasy. 
 

We need to reconnect with our basic humanity. Our basic sense of connection to each other, to art, to intimacy, to the earth, to philosophy, etc. Absolutely no one is happy with our current set up (even billionaires suffer from high rates of depression.)

We need to stop seeing the purpose of life as some hypothetical future where we’re all millionaires in Dubai with an army of sex robots to satisfy our every pleasure whilst we upload our consciousness to rocket ships to Mars, and instead recapture our sacred connection to earth, to food, to wisdom, to growth, etc. The way we’re living is slowly killing all of us, for the benefit of no one, yet under our current paradigm we can’t see a way out.

We need a shift in consciousness and heart as much as we need a shift in policy and lawmaking.

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

1 hour ago, Apparition of Jack said:

Using Maszlow’s Hierarchy of Needs, we, especially in the developed world, have more than enough raw resources to give everyone the basic necessities of food, shelter and medicine. The Industrial Revolution basically eliminated scarcity as we know I and we’re at a point where we have more food, steel etc than we know what to do with (just look up the Green Revolution for reference.)

The problem is we still see these things as commodities to be sold for profit, rather than the base needs that everyone needs to, well, not die. Healthcare, for instance, has made absolutely insane strides in effectiveness over the last 40 years - we could easily give everyone that needs it access to their insulin, physical therapy, chemo treatments without even breaking a sweat, but because, at least in America, these things are locked away behind corporate paywalls for the express purpose of making a profit, countless people simply don’t receive these and too many people die each year as a result. 

If there really was so much food and medicine at our disposal, the prices of these comodities would have already plummeted to zero, there is no way this is the case. I call BS on that. Industrial revolution was followed by a huge population boom and we currently have 8 billion people worldwide, we might have enough food for everyone to get fed and I think everyone should have access to food, but that doesn't mean that food is an inexhaustable resource and it's not necessarilly the fault of capitalism that things are this way. Maybe the poorer countries should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and actually work on bettering their economy, infrastructure and feed their populace as a byproduct and consequence, instead of doing whatever shit they're doing. Most likely waging petty civil wars and blaming everything on the oh so bad meanie imperialist west.

Apply the same thing for medicine.

1 hour ago, Apparition of Jack said:

This isn’t about “freebies” or “gimmies”, it’s about upholding the social contract - you support society through your work, contribution, good efforts, etc and in return society looks after you when you need it. Otherwise, whats even the point of having a society in the first place? We may as well return to caveman politics of just killing each other over resources instead. There’s also the basic compassionate argument too - why even have all this explosion of technology, wealth etc if no one even gets to see it? How does handing billions of public dollars to tech oligarchs to buy more yachts and private jets help anyone, other than their limited ego? 

You support society throught your efforts and give away value in capitalism as well, and society rewards you in the form of money. The ammount of money you get depends on the degree to which you give people what they want. It is actually a much fairer system than to wait for the daddy goverment to give you stuff for free whilst producing very little output. Guess who ends up benefiting in such a system? Nobody. You'll just end up dragging everyone else down and there is still going to be a ruling class dictating what you can and can't do and what you can and can't buy. Or sell. 

How do you know that those billionaires haven't earned that money? However dirty the process might have been, they had to provide some value to society, the kind of value most people aren't able to provide. That's the core reason why they are rich. Individual regular working person doesn't provide irreplacable or hardly replaceable value to society, so they have much less money. That's the way it is, is it unfair? Yeah probably, but life isn't fair

1 hour ago, Apparition of Jack said:

This is nothing to say of the pure human talent being lost under the capitalist paradigm. I guarantee you, there is the next Mozart, the next Einstein or Ada Lovelace working a dead-end job in a Walmart or factory somewhere, forced to barely keep their head afloat as all their meagre wages go to looking after their grandma with cancer rather than actually providing massive value to the world by following their passion.

This is cope. Most human talent is very much monetizable and I bet most of human talent has been monetized. Unless you have the kind of talent nobody cares about or you aren't actually that good, or you are not good at promoting yourself, you'd find a way to become successfull and rich as a byproduct. Most people are talentless LOL

 

[Ishanga]

@Apparition of Jack Yes agreed, that is my understanding as well, Capitalism worked up until a certain point, maybe late 80's or early 90's, then with more and more wealth gap and ownership in the hands of the few, the middle class income ppl are being eliminated, so hence the power is in fewer and fewer hands, and guess what, they never want to lose what they have!
 

Its all a matter of how Conscious one is, we are not a very highly Conscious Society or Humanity, that is obvious when Profit rule over People Suffering things that can easily be fixed!

So if we raise Human Consciousness generally, then things will change, systems will change, we will discover again our Human Nature and Humanity, until then, no educational systems, no Economic system, no Government party or policy will change a thing, since that system is corrupted beyond Belief! Can't change what the system with the same system that created and is creating the problem!!

[Bjorn K Holmstrom]

5 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

@Apparition of Jack Yes agreed, that is my understanding as well, Capitalism worked up until a certain point, maybe late 80's or early 90's, then with more and more wealth gap and ownership in the hands of the few, the middle class income ppl are being eliminated, so hence the power is in fewer and fewer hands, and guess what, they never want to lose what they have!
 

Its all a matter of how Conscious one is, we are not a very highly Conscious Society or Humanity, that is obvious when Profit rule over People Suffering things that can easily be fixed!

So if we raise Human Consciousness generally, then things will change, systems will change, we will discover again our Human Nature and Humanity, until then, no educational systems, no Economic system, no Government party or policy will change a thing, since that system is corrupted beyond Belief! Can't change what the system with the same system that created and is creating the problem!!

Yes, the economic problem is, at its root, a spiritual and consciousness problem. We are trying to solve a Tier 2 problem (how to structure a complex, global society for holistic well-being) with Tier 1 tools (competition, profit, individual gain). It's like trying to perform brain surgery with a hammer. The tool isn't fit for the task.

The path forward isn't choosing between capitalism and socialism, but transcending the dichotomy to create a system that harnesses the innovative engine of Orange while being guided by the compassionate, holistic awareness of Green and Yellow.

[Ishanga]

16 minutes ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

If there really was so much food and medicine at our disposal, the prices of these comodities would have already plummeted to zero, there is no way this is the case. I call BS on that. Industrial revolution was followed by a huge population boom and we currently have 8 billion people worldwide, we might have enough food for everyone to get fed and I think everyone should have access to food, but that doesn't mean that food is an inexhaustable resource and it's not necessarilly the fault of capitalism that things are this way. Maybe the poorer countries should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and actually work on bettering their economy, infrastructure and feed their populace as a byproduct and consequence, instead of doing whatever shit they're doing. Most likely waging petty civil wars and blaming everything on the oh so bad meanie imperialist west.

 

There is more than enough food and resources!! If someone goes from making little to know money, to winning the Billiondollar power ball lottery, is there enough resources for them to be able to spend it all? Yes there is, so if we take this and apply it too everyone having the basics, a comfortable House and a bit of property for a garden or yard, clothing and supplies like that, access to transport, security and safety, and a chance to explore life beyond work, eat, sleep do it again tomorrow, to see what is their creative talent and interest, and supply them with top quality medical care, we can easily do this today!

16 minutes ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

You support society throught your efforts and give away value in capitalism as well, and society rewards you in the form of money. The ammount of money you get depends on the degree to which you give people what they want. It is actually a much fairer system than to wait for the daddy goverment to give you stuff for free whilst producing very little output. Guess who ends up benefiting in such a system? Nobody. You'll just end up dragging everyone else down and there is still going to be a ruling class dictating what you can and can't do and what you can and can't buy. Or sell. 

How do you know that those billionaires haven't earned that money? However dirty the process might have been, they had to provide some value to society, the kind of value most people aren't able to provide. That's the core reason why they are rich. Individual regular working person doesn't provide irreplacable or hardly replaceable value to society, so they have much less money. That's the way it is, is it unfair? Yeah probably, but life isn't fair

This is cope. Most human talent is very much monetizable and I bet most of human talent has been monetized. Unless you have the kind of talent nobody cares about or you aren't actually that good, or you are not good at promoting yourself, you'd find a way to become successfull and rich as a byproduct. Most people are talentless LOL

 

People are not being paid fairly for their work, and the corporate CEO making in 10min what another worker makes in a year, is completely unfair, and he/she is not being paid for their so called expertise.  I work for a leading corporation, I see what is coming down the line, its the same language and set up with changes coming down and restructuring for all the companies, its like they are reading from the same book, they are all laying ppl off, using tech to making things more streamlined and efficient and such things, but in the end its about the ones in power maintaining power and control over us slaves and such that do the real work.. They never consult the ones on the front lines, they only take data, rework it and make decisions based on data, and not on what really works, so imo they are all stupid and not very intelligence and get paid way too much for it...When covid hit, ppl didn't like it when their garbage wasn't being picked up and/or their groceries and packages were not arriving, they then realized how Important those roles are, and not easily replaceable compared to the corporate power brokers who know nothing and do nothing except repeat and copy themselves...

Edited 17 hours ago by Ishanga

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

10 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

There is more than enough food and resources!!

There may be enough maybe, depending on how you quantify a person's needs (like a good little socialist, deciding how much of something everyone actually needs instead of letting them decide LOL), there MOST CERTAINLY isn't "more than enough" though. All of our resources are very finite. If you think otherwise, just look at the stats.

15 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

If someone goes from making little to know money, to winning the Billiondollar power ball lottery, is there enough resources for them to be able to spend it all? Yes there is, so if we take this and apply it too everyone having the basics, a comfortable House and a bit of property for a garden or yard, clothing and supplies like that, access to transport, security and safety, and a chance to explore life beyond work, eat, sleep do it again tomorrow, to see what is their creative talent and interest, and supply them with top quality medical care, we can easily do this today!

I really don't understand what you are trying to say in these 2 sentences it makes no sense to me. How does being able to spend 1 billion dollars equate to everyone suddenly having all these things you have mentioned? Do you mean to spread amongst the whole population 1 billion dollars or give 1 billion dollars to everyone each? Regardless which one of those it is, the former is just plainly wrong mathematically and the latter is just kindergarden logic worthy of being said by Billie Eilish. Not understanding how economy works at all, how human behaviour works at all. Not worthy of further comments

23 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

People are not being paid fairly for their work, and the corporate CEO making in 10min what another worker makes in a year, is completely unfair, and he/she is not being paid for their so called expertise.  I work for a leading corporation, I see what is coming down the line, its the same language and set up with changes coming down and restructuring for all the companies, its like they are reading from the same book, they are all laying ppl off, using tech to making things more streamlined and efficient and such things, but in the end its about the ones in power maintaining power and control over us slaves and such that do the real work.. They never consult the ones on the front lines, they only take data, rework it and make decisions based on data, and not on what really works, so imo they are all stupid and not very intelligence and get paid way too much for it...When covid hit, ppl didn't like it when their garbage wasn't being picked up and/or their groceries and packages were not arriving, they then realized how Important those roles are, and not easily replaceable compared to the corporate power brokers who know nothing and do nothing except repeat and copy themselves...

People are being paid exactly the ammount other people think they deserve, if you think someone is paid way too much or way too little, thank human nature for that instead of capitalism. It's not a fault of capitalism that we do not care about the garbage men very much but care very much about stupid things. Furthermore, socialists only know how to criticize the capitalism but would do nothing to improve anything, would do no innovations to society whatsoever. They would just entrench themselves in the all powerfull goverment and stomp on everyone's head. And this is regardless of what kind of socialism we're talking since there are many kinds of it. Some better than others. They're all the same in this aspect.

[Eskilon]

10 minutes ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

All of our resources are very finite

This is not actually the case. Money is infinite. The bank lend WAY more money than it has. In fact it lends money that it DOESNT have in reserve. 

The economy is basically a circle jerk between banks playing with imaginary money and maintaining inequality in society.

Edited 16 hours ago by Eskilon

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

12 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

This is not actually the case. Money is infinite. The bank lend WAY more money than it has. In fact it lends money that it DOESNT have in reserve. 

The economy is basically a circle jerk between banks playing with imaginary money and maintaining inequality in society.

I was talking about resources, not money

[Eskilon]

13 minutes ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

I was talking about resources, not money

If money is not a resource, then what is it？

Even if I grant that it is not a resource and you are talking about something like food. It is overabundant for sure. Have you seen the ammounts of food wastage every year? It's over a billion tons of food. There's more than enough for everybody. World hunger is just humans being selfish and lazy.

Edited 16 hours ago by Eskilon

[Ishanga]

1 hour ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

There may be enough maybe, depending on how you quantify a person's needs (like a good little socialist, deciding how much of something everyone actually needs instead of letting them decide LOL), there MOST CERTAINLY isn't "more than enough" though. All of our resources are very finite. If you think otherwise, just look at the stats.

Well if You think one person worth $100 billion with many multi million dollar homes, billion dollar yachts, planes, and power beyond concept, and the majority don't even own their one simple home, can barely get food and clothing, then who is to judge it then?? Its not even a judgement, its just common sense for pete's sake.. And we don't live in a free environment where everyone has the same opportunity to get to that sort of level, and its a level of materialism that is hurting the Earth and everything else except the person owning it all a sense of power and "I'm better than You" experience..

We do have limited resources, if the population of the entire world lived like the avg American we would need 4 Earths to supply those resources, but we only have half of one earth left... So its not just me making a judgement call on what someone needs to live, we have limited resources, one person doesn't need that much money and material possessions, it needs to be spread out so all have something!!

1 hour ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

I really don't understand what you are trying to say in these 2 sentences it makes no sense to me. How does being able to spend 1 billion dollars equate to everyone suddenly having all these things you have mentioned? Do you mean to spread amongst the whole population 1 billion dollars or give 1 billion dollars to everyone each? Regardless which one of those it is, the former is just plainly wrong mathematically and the latter is just kindergarden logic worthy of being said by Billie Eilish. Not understanding how economy works at all, how human behaviour works at all. Not worthy of further comments

What I mean is the the corporate heads and elites are not more important or offer more intelligence wise or otherwise than the front line workers!! Take away all the frontlines and just keep the CEO/Elites and nothing happens, all businesses fail...What I mean is that all resources should be spread out for All, not just a few to exploit! And that is not happening today and never really has since Humanities birth, mostly due to Unconsciousness!

1 hour ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

People are being paid exactly the ammount other people think they deserve, if you think someone is paid way too much or way too little, thank human nature for that instead of capitalism. It's not a fault of capitalism that we do not care about the garbage men very much but care very much about stupid things. Furthermore, socialists only know how to criticize the capitalism but would do nothing to improve anything, would do no innovations to society whatsoever. They would just entrench themselves in the all powerfull goverment and stomp on everyone's head. And this is regardless of what kind of socialism we're talking since there are many kinds of it. Some better than others. They're all the same in this aspect.

Like I said all ISM's have to end...We invented Capitalism to supposedly make it so everyone is equal and has the same chances, this is a major lie!!

Again, just look at where we are, lots of inequality going on, suffering too...