Meeksauce

Debunking Solipsism

256 posts in this topic

On 8/5/2025 at 6:50 AM, Water by the River said:

@Xonas Pitfall 

How to leave a door open on something one is not sure of? Declare that x% of your teachings are wrong and justify that with "to get the herd to think for itself."

Infinity of Gods is indeed where the not-fully-empty psychedelic explorer ends up—still having an identification arising as being God/Reality/whatever. Plot twist: That Absolute Reality can do very well without any identification and concept. Such as... before the birth of your parents.

"Absolutes" in the plural is a contradiction in itself.

The real Absolute is that One (without a second) that is aware of all of those "Gods"/Void-Universes/Realms/Dimensions, which "It" manifests in its own Infinite Reality—the only Reality there is.

One Absolute/God reaching out to another Absolute/God, but of course doing that voluntarily, because otherwise they could never really intersect- since each is sovereign and infinite and fundamentally separate (that is, with the exception that sometimes these two God - chaps reach out to each other)? If that is not a (just appearing) dualistic story, I don't know what is.

Koan: Who or what is aware of that funny story/appearance?

 

Selling Water by the River (without a second)

 

PS: https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?q=%22%20Infinity%20of%20Gods%22&author=Water%20by%20the%20River&sortby=relevancy

 

What this is is someone really rattled that Solpsism is the case and desperately wanting other to still somehow exist.  Well..it DOES exist! You see..since imagination is reality..well wala! Why would you need to imagine another God?  When you can just imagine your mother or your buddy next door.   You can talk to them already.

Edited by Inliytened1

 

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On 8/5/2025 at 8:26 AM, Xonas Pitfall said:

@Water by the River

Correct! :)

I do think there is some merit or need to explain this: God is a Self that has no Other. That’s the ultimate 'limitation' or issue with God: He cannot be an Other or ever meet an Other, so He keeps looping and creating infinite Others. Hence, why Love is so precious to us and God. It feels like God is this infinitely moving object that follows this exact loop:

This is how God works, it seems. So I assume the 'infinity of gods' episode was trying to illustrate this loop properly about God, but just failed to address the fact that it’s still solipsistic, and there is an absolute, singular God.

He never said it contradicted Solipsism..where are you seeing that?  He was very careful not to do that but left the possibility there could be other Absolutes. Yes we use the term other here but it is paradoxical because it really isn't an other.  Now..the whole communication part is a little far fetched.  Hence why I refrained from really entertaining this possibility with my imagination.  All you are doing here is imagining yet more reality and more "other" like you said. Yet it still fits within the realm of possibility.   It merely extends or expands the concept of Solipsism.   Which is, by the way, concept.  You need the actual realization.   Just be wary because it WILL kill you.  This realization will kill you.

 

Edited by Inliytened1

 

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12 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

He never said it contradicted Solipsism..where are you seeing that?  He was very careful not to do that but left the possibility there could be other Absolutes. Yes we use the term other here but it is paradoxical because it really isn't an other.  Now..the whole communication part is a little far fetched.  Hence why I refrained from really entertaining this possibility with my imagination.  All you are doing here is imagining yet more reality and more "other" like you said. Yet it still fits within the realm of possibility.   It merely extends or expands the concept of Solipsism.   Which is, by the way, concept.  You need the actual realization.   Just be wary because it WILL kill you.  This realization will kill you.

 

It only kills other, and it only kills your human self as a non fictional character. It makes your human self a fiction just like Santa Claus or a Unicorn. You can basically say you are both dead and alive. Dead because the human self is not really real, alive because the human self borrows its realness from God. The only thing that is REAL is God so as a result everything God creates is real by proxy or relationship. 

But since everything is God...you could just say everything is REAL since REAL has no other because REAL IS IMAGINARY because there is only IMAGINATION. REAL has no other, and Imagination has no other, so God in it's Infinite Intelligence creates a duality between Imaginary and Real. 


You are a selfless LACK OF APPEARANCE, that CONSTRUCTS AN APPEARANCE. But that appearance can disappear and reappear and we call that change, we call it time, we call it space, we call it distance, we call distinctness, we call it other. But notice...this appearance, is a SELF. A SELF IS A CONSTRUCTION!!! 

So if you want to know the TRUTH OF THE CONSTRUCTION. Just deconstruct the construction!!!! No point in playing these mind games!!! No point in creating needless complexity!!! The truth of what you are is a BLANK!!!! A selfless awareness....then that means there is NO OTHER, and everything you have ever perceived was JUST AN APPEARANCE, A MIRAGE, AN ILLUSION, IMAGINARY. 

Everything that appears....appears out of a lack of appearance/void/no-thing, non-sense (can't be sensed because there is nothing to sense). That is what you are, and what arises...is made of that. So nonexistence, arises/creates existence. And thus everything is solved.

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10 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

It only kills other, and it only kills your human self as a non fictional character. It makes your human self a fiction just like Santa Claus or a Unicorn. You can basically say you are both dead and alive. Dead because the human self is not really real, alive because the human self borrows its realness from God. The only thing that is REAL is God so as a result everything God creates is real by proxy or relationship. 

But since everything is God...you could just say everything is REAL since REAL has no other because REAL IS IMAGINARY because there is only IMAGINATION. REAL has no other, and Imagination has no other, so God in it's Infinite Intelligence creates a duality between Imaginary and Real. 

Yes! Well..as Leo said..rather than focusing on Solpsism you should really go back to the beginning of the path.  And this starts with the self.  The human self like you said.  This starts with simple self inquiry.  Because the realization of Solpsism is really the destruction of other.  But notice that other is the other end of the duality of self/other.  Contained within your idea of reality is both.  You have your identity in the universe..and then you have everything that's not you.  That is why I call the destruction of other the final realization.  Because it unites both self and other into One.

Edited by Inliytened1

 

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26 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Yes! Well..as Leo said..rather than focusing on Solpsism you should really go back to the beginning of the path.  And this starts with the self.  The human self like you said.  This starts with simple self inquiry.  Because the realization of Solpsism is really the destruction of other.  But notice that other is the other end of the duality of self/other.  Contained within your idea of reality is both.  You have your identity in the universe..and then you have everything that's not you.  That is why I call the destruction of other the final realization.  Because it unites both self and other into One.

Your right but how you say it sounds so complicated. 


You are a selfless LACK OF APPEARANCE, that CONSTRUCTS AN APPEARANCE. But that appearance can disappear and reappear and we call that change, we call it time, we call it space, we call it distance, we call distinctness, we call it other. But notice...this appearance, is a SELF. A SELF IS A CONSTRUCTION!!! 

So if you want to know the TRUTH OF THE CONSTRUCTION. Just deconstruct the construction!!!! No point in playing these mind games!!! No point in creating needless complexity!!! The truth of what you are is a BLANK!!!! A selfless awareness....then that means there is NO OTHER, and everything you have ever perceived was JUST AN APPEARANCE, A MIRAGE, AN ILLUSION, IMAGINARY. 

Everything that appears....appears out of a lack of appearance/void/no-thing, non-sense (can't be sensed because there is nothing to sense). That is what you are, and what arises...is made of that. So nonexistence, arises/creates existence. And thus everything is solved.

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On 4/8/2025 at 11:02 AM, Xonas Pitfall said:

you say there is a potential of infinite Absolutes that cannot communicate with each other

All "absolutes" are connected to each other because they are synchronistic; they are cause and effect of one another. The only way for form to exist is through contrast, and the only possible contrast is dynamic, movement.

Reality is infinite relationships unfolding without pause, and relationship means relative. What is absolute is the nature of reality; its form is relative. Form and relative are equivalent concepts. The only possible creator is unlimited potential unfolding in synchronistic relationships, without a center, or with infinite centers.

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1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

All "absolutes" are connected to each other because they are synchronistic; they are cause and effect of one another. The only way for form to exist is through contrast, and the only possible contrast is dynamic, movement.

Reality is infinite relationships unfolding without pause, and relationship means relative. What is absolute is the nature of reality; its form is relative. Form and relative are equivalent concepts. The only possible creator is unlimited potential unfolding in synchronistic relationships, without a center, or with infinite centers.

I think his point was to say that because of this there are no truly separate Absolutes.  But the premise of Infinity of Gods says there is.  Yet the interconnecticity of the two breaks the premise of the infinity of Gods, because it brings the two Absolutes together.  That was why it doesn't contradict Solpsism.  As you connect the two it becomes part of your reality.  It actually never contradicts Solpsism in a sense because the meaning of other only applies to your reality.   The other "other" is not even imaginable.   Yet the paradox here is that you are still imagining it.  

Edited by Inliytened1

 

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32 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Your right but how you say it sounds so complicated. 

Maybe but as you said the key here is that imagination is reality.  This is probably the most beautiful and mystifying thing about all of reality.  It allows for Infinite possibilities.   Where as if you had a physical, obective, mechanical universe you would really be limited.  Einstein was really on the cusp.  But he fell short. Though I hope in the end he woke up.  

Edited by Inliytened1

 

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51 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I think his point was to say that because of this there are no truly separate Absolutes.  But the premise of Infinity of Gods says there is.  Yet the interconnecticity of the two breaks the premise of the infinity of Gods, because it brings the two Absolutes together.  That was why it doesn't contradict Solpsism.  As you connect the two it becomes part of your reality.

 

The problem is that they are interconnected ,they are relative to each other.
In a total perspective, there is neither one nor many , there is only totality. That is the absolute.
The moment you perceive yourself as “one,” you are already in the realm of the relative, because “one” only exists in contrast to “two” or more. Without the possibility of two, there is no “one.” There is only what is: the unlimited.
Therefore, one, many, creation, perception, imagination, synchrony, change, movement, and existence are all relative.
“Relative” means in relation.
The absolute is not a thing beyond the relative , it is the very nature of the relative itself: limitlessness.

Thus, the relative occurs in the absolute: an unlimited relational flux. Every relation is form, and every form is dynamic: incessant movement. What relates is absolute being to itself, unfolding infinitely. It is one and many at the same time: separate, as reflected in itself; one, as perfect interconnection. But relative. The absolute is our ultimate nature, the unlimited, and that is not one, nor two, it's total

 If there are no limits, there can be no deterministic creation, because the relational flow has no predictable direction. Its causes are infinite, and so are its possibilities. This makes it impossible to anticipate its exact trajectory: becoming then is absolute, because it's the unlimited. The form and the limitlessness are one. 

Edited by Breakingthewall

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11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

The problem is that they are interconnected

Again the premise of the video states they cannot be.

11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The moment you perceive yourself as “one,” you are already in the realm of the relative, because “one” only exists in contrast to “two” or more. Without the possibility of two, there is no “one.” There is only what is: the unlimited.

 

Language is tricky because here when one uses the term One they can mean unlimited or Infinity.  You are assuming they mean the finite number one in relation to other numbers.  But Absolute Onenesss is the same as what you are speaking about.  Which is why i capitalize it.

Edited by Inliytened1

 

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25 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

But Absolute Onenesss is the same as what you are speaking about.  Which is why i capitalize it.

Ok then One is unlimited, but unlimited is not something; it is simply the absence of limitations.
In the absence of limitations, relative movement arises. change of state in relation to another state, fluctuation.
From this, many perspectives appear. “Many,” within limitlessness, means infinite perspectives, all of them interconnected.
They are one, seen through infinite perspectives, each relative to the others.
So, if you are a perspective, you are relative, a possibility among infinite others.
But if you are the absence of limits itself, then you are absolute.
The point is: you are always both

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@Breakingthewall @Inliytened1 I guess 'Total,' 'Absolute,' 'Whole,' or 'Complete' are better words, but I'm not sure. Either way, words are pointers. I think we agree on the same thing to an extent, at least as I'm reading it! :) 


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3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

He never said it contradicted Solipsism..where are you seeing that?  He was very careful not to do that but left the possibility there could be other Absolutes. Yes we use the term other here but it is paradoxical because it really isn't an other.  Now..the whole communication part is a little far fetched.  Hence why I refrained from really entertaining this possibility with my imagination.  All you are doing here is imagining yet more reality and more "other" like you said. Yet it still fits within the realm of possibility.   It merely extends or expands the concept of Solipsism.   Which is, by the way, concept.  You need the actual realization.   Just be wary because it WILL kill you.  This realization will kill you.

No worries! I was just criticizing (with love, teehee :x) Leo's replies. They could’ve been better when asked about this subject, at least the ones I quoted in the previous posts. But if this is what he actually means, then I have no issues whatsoever. There are no contradictions.

Quote

I think his point was to say that because of this there are no truly separate Absolutes.  But the premise of Infinity of Gods says there is.  Yet the interconnecticity of the two breaks the premise of the infinity of Gods, because it brings the two Absolutes together.  That was why it doesn't contradict Solpsism.  As you connect the two it becomes part of your reality.

Exactly! I suppose, as stated, you don't have to use the word 'One' if people feel like it's too exclusive of the multiple absolutes and all the finitudes within it. 'Whole,' 'completeness,' and 'infinity' work pretty well.

Edited by Xonas Pitfall

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6 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

No worries! I was just criticizing (with love, teehee :x) Leo's replies. They could’ve been better when asked about this subject, at least the ones I quoted in the previous posts. But if this is what he actually means, then I have no issues whatsoever. There are no contradictions.

It's very interesting..the whole premise.  Because other isn't other if it's in a different reality.   It got me thinking as to what would be the difference between other Gods and other minds within the same God or the same reality.   And the answer is simple.  The difference is the shared dream.  The dream can't be shared because then there would still have to be someone or something sovereign over that too.  So the only way it could truly be possible is if they were all completely isolated from each other and all thus completely sovereign.   Yet as soon as they interconnected or you interconnected with them they would be swallowed up by you.

Edited by Inliytened1

 

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15 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Because other isn't other if it's in a different reality. 

This alone is a contradiction.

'Different reality' already implies separation, which means division, or 'otherness.' Again, the only way this works is if the 'sovereign' gives up his sovereignty and fragments himself into multiple absolutes as part of a 'dream' or 'illusion.' Any other way is contradictory, as you'd still have to answer the question: what is separating these 'absolutes' or the 'dreams'? The answer will always be God, as He is the ultimate sovereign. So, you'll always end up with God separating God into gods. It's inescapable by pure logic.


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5 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

This alone is a contradiction.

'Different reality' already implies separation, which means division, or 'otherness.

 

Yes but assume language is limited here.  What you are failing to see is that language IS limited.  Look at it from the perspective that we are trying to describe something that isn't describable with language but we are doing the best we can.   So when we mean separate we mean something prior to the conceptual meaning of separate that you would use in this reality.    Think outside that box and you will get the Infinity of Gods.

Edited by Inliytened1

 

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@Inliytened1 It really doesn't have to be that difficult or complex.

  • If you are saying 'not different,' then you can say 'Absolute' or 'Complete' (meaning it contains both the self and the other absolutes); a non-dual perspective. In either case, you can call that absolute singular or solipsistic once you 'group' them all.
  • And if you are speaking from a dual perspective, then you're saying it's either one or many.
Edited by Xonas Pitfall

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8 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

@Inliytened1 It really doesn't have to be that difficult or complex.

  • If you are saying 'not different,' then you can say 'Absolute' or 'Complete' (meaning it contains both the self and the other absolutes); a non-dual perspective. In either case, you can call that absolute singular or solipsistic once you 'group' them all.
  • And if you are speaking from a dual perspective, then you're saying it's either one or many.

 

right..but aren't you applying this to reality? What if there was something outside of even that where none of this would even apply?  

It's the same concept of there being other minds within the same dream.   Only what we are saying here is that there are separate dreams each on their own island with their own language and their own separation.   The rules of this reality don't apply to that one..and vice versa.   So when I say separate dreams I'm only saying that from my finite perspective.  They really aren't separate they are each their own entity.  The point is there would be nothing to prevent this in essence.

Edited by Inliytened1

 

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@Inliytened1

Quote

 The point is there would be nothing to prevent this in essence.

But there would be. It's the logic of God and (non)duality.

For example, length only occurs if there is a separation between two points so that you can measure from one object to another. Otherwise, you just get infinity in all directions, which is essentially infinite length. Now, sure, can you create alternative realities where lengths are measured in centimeters, millimeters, elephant stomps, golf carts, alien ⠋cryptic ⠋⣁⡞⠁language, etc.? Yes, of course, but the universal principle of needing two separate points to define length remains, no matter which reality you go to.

The same applies here. You can imagine infinite absolutes and countless more infinities, but the fundamental principle remains: for a separation to occur, there must be a separate 'boundary' or something 'separating' the difference. And the key question is: what is that space made of? Vacuum? How did that appear? Intergalactic alien fluid? Who created that, and what's the substance of it? How did that come to be? If you say God made it, then it's God, God separating Himself into gods.

11 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

They really aren't separate they are each their own entity.

This still falls heavily into duality.

"Each their own entity" still means there is an 'end' to one and a space between the 'start' of another. Again, the question is: what's separating the two? Hence, repeating the same question.

As I acknowledged above, I accept the notion that within God, there can be infinitely many absolutes separate from each other, but not outside of God. That is false.

Edited by Xonas Pitfall

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2 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Maybe but as you said the key here is that imagination is reality.  This is probably the most beautiful and mystifying thing about all of reality.  It allows for Infinite possibilities.   Where as if you had a physical, obective, mechanical universe you would really be limited.  Einstein was really on the cusp.  But he fell short. Though I hope in the end he woke up.  

Oh I like this statement you think when his human life ended he remained lost in delusion? 


You are a selfless LACK OF APPEARANCE, that CONSTRUCTS AN APPEARANCE. But that appearance can disappear and reappear and we call that change, we call it time, we call it space, we call it distance, we call distinctness, we call it other. But notice...this appearance, is a SELF. A SELF IS A CONSTRUCTION!!! 

So if you want to know the TRUTH OF THE CONSTRUCTION. Just deconstruct the construction!!!! No point in playing these mind games!!! No point in creating needless complexity!!! The truth of what you are is a BLANK!!!! A selfless awareness....then that means there is NO OTHER, and everything you have ever perceived was JUST AN APPEARANCE, A MIRAGE, AN ILLUSION, IMAGINARY. 

Everything that appears....appears out of a lack of appearance/void/no-thing, non-sense (can't be sensed because there is nothing to sense). That is what you are, and what arises...is made of that. So nonexistence, arises/creates existence. And thus everything is solved.

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