ExploringReality

What Is Context? ⚠️

64 posts in this topic

Like... words not actually describing or being the thing it refers to? This issue of words keeps popping into my contemplations in a most unwanted way... some rather rude thoughts from my morning 'walking the dog contemplation' :

The word 'LIGHT'

Turn on the light - means illumination

This crowbar is light - means not heavy

I prefer light colours - pale, not dark

I am a light sleeper - means easily awakened

Same word - four meanings. The only thing that tells you which is which is the context.

So my only derivation is that a word doesn't describe a thing on its own - the context activates the meaning. Words are symbols. Not the actual thing. Meaning is not in the word. 

So this naturally must mess with experience right? See a tree and instead of sensing bark, smell, sound, light flicker - my brain goes 'tree'. Directness is gone, mystery deleted. And I stop seeing - I think 'tree' and the language effectively stole my true experience.

And the 'borrowing context' further minces the pie - associations from past uses of a word dump all over new experiences... 

 

 


Deal with the issue now, on your terms, in your control. Or the issue will deal with you, in ways you won't appreciate, and cannot control.

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7 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

The symbol is associated with another thing, which makes it part of a larger whole (the symbol + the thing). The association also depends on other associations (e.g. "pen!" means something different while sitting in a classroom than if you're looking for a pen under your bed), which also makes up a larger whole. 

The association also depends on the inner states or the person (or creature) that makes the association (Gregory Bateson made this point), e.g. their knowledge of English or other prior experiences, which also makes up a larger whole. 

So again, when parts come together and make up a larger whole, you get a context. Another point Bateson made is that context and the parts within are inseparable. There is no symbol without a linguistic context to interpret it in. Without a linguistic context, a symbol just becomes a thing. But even a thing has a context (other things or no-thing), but not necessarily a linguistic one.

But notice, even if we didn't know a particular language, we'd still know that something is being communicated. The symbol plus the thing may not be pointing to what context is.

"La rana saltó al lago."

In this example, language is still operative in your mind - you still recognize the symbols are language - even though you may not know what that sentence is saying or what things it is referring to.

Quote

when parts come together and make up a larger whole, you get a context.

Wouldn't context be what allows for the 'parts within' to be recognized as a whole instead?

I'm not sure where I'm trying to get at, context can be quite an elusive and subtle matter, and a profound one.

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7 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Like... words not actually describing or being the thing it refers to? This issue of words keeps popping into my contemplations in a most unwanted way... some rather rude thoughts from my morning 'walking the dog contemplation' :

The word 'LIGHT'

Turn on the light - means illumination

This crowbar is light - means not heavy

I prefer light colours - pale, not dark

I am a light sleeper - means easily awakened

Same word - four meanings. The only thing that tells you which is which is the context.

So my only derivation is that a word doesn't describe a thing on its own - the context activates the meaning. Words are symbols. Not the actual thing. Meaning is not in the word. 

So this naturally must mess with experience right? See a tree and instead of sensing bark, smell, sound, light flicker - my brain goes 'tree'. Directness is gone, mystery deleted. And I stop seeing - I think 'tree' and the language effectively stole my true experience.

And the 'borrowing context' further minces the pie - associations from past uses of a word dump all over new experiences... 

It can be even more profound than the setting, surrounding environment, or the meaning a sentence may convey. Again, language here is being used as an example of context.

What is context, such that a symbol like this one - light - is recognized as language?

Edited by UnbornTao

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Yes! Language is a great example of possible recontextualizations. Mandarin for example has words that could mean +20 different things depending on context. But without going further, english language is prone to a lot of meaning depending on context too.

Even with your example "she saw her duck"  it's not clear if the subject saw her own duck or the duck of someone else... 

Or another example "he hits the man with an umbrella" you cannot know at first glance if a man was hit by an umbrella or that the subject hits another man that is holding an umbrella. That is unless you know the context. 

But this is not the problem. What actually matters is that we always assume one of the many posible meanings, leaving room to a lot of misunderstanding unless you're consciously deciphering each possible meaning, which let's be honest most of us don't do because we run in autopilot. Especially in social contexts. We just assume whatever comes first without further investigation and that's the real issue. 

Imagine what other kinds of misunderstanding could exist because of this, lots of it.

 

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5 hours ago, Human Mint said:

imagine what other kinds of misunderstanding could exist because of this, lots of it.

I buttload 😜

I can tell in meetings with clients when they lose context - so I rely on reading body language to scan for confusion as most people don't ask questions when confused. 

Context appears to be needed for subjectivity - do we think direct experience occurs when context is missing? 

Perhaps psychedelics delete context 

 

 


Deal with the issue now, on your terms, in your control. Or the issue will deal with you, in ways you won't appreciate, and cannot control.

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27 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I buttload 😜

I can tell in meetings with clients when they lose context - so I rely on reading body language to scan for confusion as most people don't ask questions when confused. 

Context appears to be needed for subjectivity - do we think direct experience occurs when context is missing? 

Perhaps psychedelics delete context 

 

 

Now this conversation is moving to a more practical area of our lives which makes it juicy.

I have personally observed a lot, that people in the same room or just a conversation between you and one other person whether they are a loved one, a relative or a friend, when you tell them something that's coming from a deep philosophical place and not just surface talk, they can easily misinterpret, misunderstand and not have the same reference context for what you just said to them which leads to confusion and misunderstanding. Especially when they don't ask questions or to summarize what you just said to them out loud to make sure that they are on the same page, many people avoid this because they have been trained early on to avoid confrontation and question what people say because they may think it's rude. I know someone personally that will just go off their interpretation of what you're saying rather than asking because they think it makes them feel stupid if they have to repeat what you just said back to them, just to make sure that there is clarification and that everyone's on the same page. They also said they felt embarrassed for their ignorance or being exposed as to not know. 

Context is something that makes up every single distinction of our experience. Every sense perception from our five senses, don't just read these words, actually become present in your direct experience right now! Look around. Notice how every object is itself a field of distinctions. Everything, like looking at a window or refrigerator for a moment is itself layered with contexts that makes up the entire refrigerator. What's the context for a refrigerator? Notice that context is like that Russian doll that is layered upon bigger ones that encapsulates itself.

Psychedelics definitely blows context out of the water. It's literally metaphysical recontextualization to the ultimate degree. But metaphysical recontextualization is a whole domain that can easily be misinterpreted, misunderstood and lead to delusions if you don't have a sharp epistemological head on your shoulders.

Edited by ExploringReality

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Danm!! This has me on the edge of my contemplative seat. I don't want to fuck around and stop at a seemingly deep conclusion. Keep pushing this inquiry through the wall.

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3 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I buttload 😜

You what?! 🫢


Intrinsic joy = being x meaning ²

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4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

You what?! 🫢

My scumbag hands betrayed me!

I was quoted before I could edit - so I felt, I will leave it be :P


Deal with the issue now, on your terms, in your control. Or the issue will deal with you, in ways you won't appreciate, and cannot control.

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10 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

What is context, such that a symbol like this one - light - is recognized as language?

The topic almost feels bigger than one session of thought can juice from it - so there will be more:

  • The linguistic surroundings - words that come before and after: The bag is light - The light turned on
  • Situation - so who where when and of course, 'what' is happening: A dinner by candlelight (light is ambience) - At the gym (light is the weight)
  • The cultural framework, which would be, I suppose, shared assumptions and meanings... 'Light' in terms of Christianity vs 'light' in physics class
  • Personal loading and association - ones own experiences and biases
  • Intention - what is attempting to be communicated - subtle cues in tone, emphasis. Gesture...
  • The rules of language so grammar, structure. The way the brain parses the flow of a sentence and when it expects nouns, verbs, adjectives etc

With language it appears it is not seen directly at all - it is always constructed. So the recognition of language as an example of context, is a contextual act of the mind. I suppose then, experience (and meaning) is co-created and not given?

Reality doesn't 'show up' - we must meet it half way as experience is definitely not something we passively receive. The mind is an essential part of the experience making machinery.


Deal with the issue now, on your terms, in your control. Or the issue will deal with you, in ways you won't appreciate, and cannot control.

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1 hour ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

My scumbag hands betrayed me!

I was quoted before I could edit - so I felt, I will leave it be :P

Context has never been more disappointing 😔

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy = being x meaning ²

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The mind is a reality generating hallucination machine that is not bound by context, but is what allows any context to be. Context is Infinite and not anything in particular at the same time. 

Mind and reality are co-connected.

Notice how this conversation is contextual. We're trying to understand context through contrast of contexts in ordinary situations, linguistics, social domain and metaphysically and of course, epistemically. We're trying to grasp context using context. That's a difficult feat, it feels like trying to roll our eyes back and looks inside your skull.

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@ExploringReality

Yes this always happens - same with the 'What is Experience' contemplation thread.

It's easy for fall in the meta move of circular thinking 


Deal with the issue now, on your terms, in your control. Or the issue will deal with you, in ways you won't appreciate, and cannot control.

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@Natasha Tori Maru

Yes there are many traps in this inquiry. Meaning is framed by context. Context is what gives flesh and meaning to the bones of reality.

Meta inquiry into the nature of context throws beaming light on the context of our lives and experience.

What is context? Then what is that? Then what is that? And then we question even that thing that explains what context is. I don't know.

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20 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

The topic almost feels bigger than one session of thought can juice from it - so there will be more:

  • The linguistic surroundings - words that come before and after: The bag is light - The light turned on
  • Situation - so who where when and of course, 'what' is happening: A dinner by candlelight (light is ambience) - At the gym (light is the weight)
  • The cultural framework, which would be, I suppose, shared assumptions and meanings... 'Light' in terms of Christianity vs 'light' in physics class
  • Personal loading and association - ones own experiences and biases
  • Intention - what is attempting to be communicated - subtle cues in tone, emphasis. Gesture...
  • The rules of language so grammar, structure. The way the brain parses the flow of a sentence and when it expects nouns, verbs, adjectives etc

With language it appears it is not seen directly at all - it is always constructed. So the recognition of language as an example of context, is a contextual act of the mind. I suppose then, experience (and meaning) is co-created and not given?

Reality doesn't 'show up' - we must meet it half way as experience is definitely not something we passively receive. The mind is an essential part of the experience making machinery.

Where's context in all of that? Certainly, it applies to the examples you mention, yet the heart of it doesn't seem to be addressed. It's not just about a symbol like light or luz and how it's contextualized within a sentence, but - as you said somewhere - that something represents something else. That might point us toward the invention of language, helping us sort out this whole context business.

Clearly, we don't really know what we're talking about - hence the discussion! It's more about asking the right questions, which I haven't quite managed to do thus far.

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20 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Where's context in all of that? Certainly, it applies to the examples you mention, yet the heart of it doesn't seem to be addressed. It's not just about a symbol like light or luz and how it's contextualized within a sentence, but - as you said somewhere - that something represents something else. That might point us toward the invention of language, helping us sort out this whole context business.

Clearly, we don't really know what we're talking about - hence the discussion! It's more about asking the right questions, which I haven't quite managed to do thus far.

A context is a thought. A thought is a symbol. A symbol is something that represents something that it itself is not. Therefore context is not a static thing that we can pin down. 

All language is dualistic and created by thought and tries to explain how reality is. But how reality is is not limited to one or many contexts or frames of reference, or representation, or symbols, or thoughts, or language. I suppose, do you think that context is holarchical?

Context is infinite and also not a single thing. A context is a bubble of reality.

I recall Leo's previous episode " what is perception?" He used an analogy of a huge sponge. And within the sponge are  whole independent bubbles within it that are distinct and whole unto themselves. I like that analogy, or also you can think about it like a television program is a context, and imagine there are infinite channels and each one is a context, and furthermore each channel can be interpreted in many different ways and the context could change invariably.

 

Edited by ExploringReality

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@UnbornTao Yes, I danced around the issue with a lot of circular examples - which is often the case with phenomenology (I have trouble with this topic). Phenomenology feels like one of those little hand-held ball maze games on turbo drive. The ones where you tilt the thing... I'm constantly shifting the frame to get the ball to go in the middle but all it does it swing around in circles. Never quite getting there :P And then I end up dizzy myself!

6 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Clearly, we don't really know what we're talking about - hence the discussion! It's more about asking the right questions, which I haven't quite managed to do thus far.

I like to think the constant chatter back and forth gets the question to spring to your mind - you often come out of no where in reaction to a discussion.

Always good stuff 

Edited by Natasha Tori Maru

Deal with the issue now, on your terms, in your control. Or the issue will deal with you, in ways you won't appreciate, and cannot control.

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@ExploringReality For example, self may be the context for our current experience. What is that actually saying?

 

Edited by UnbornTao

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11 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@UnbornTao Yes, I danced around the issue with a lot of circular examples - which is often the case with phenomenology (I have trouble with this topic). Phenomenology feels like one of those little hand-held ball maze games on turbo drive. The ones where you tilt the thing... I'm constantly shifting the frame to get the ball to go in the middle but all it does it swing around in circles. Never quite getting there :P And then I end up dizzy myself!

I like to think the constant chatter back and forth gets the question to spring to your mind - you often come out of no where in reaction to a discussion.

Always good stuff 

The following resources could be a positive contribution to this topic: 

https://www.metarelating.com/articles/the-power-of-context

http://www.wernererhard.net/alter.html

http://www.laurenceplatt.com/wernererhard/dealing1.html

Quote

Context is the freedom to be.  Context is space.  It has no form, no place in time; it allows form and time.  In the absence of a consciously-created context, our lives are controlled by content – the forces and circumstances of the condition in which we live.  Once you create a context, that context then generates a process in which the content – the forces and circumstances – reorder and align themselves with the context.  For example, if you choose to shift the context of your life from ‘I don’t matter’ to ‘I make a difference,’ the circumstances in your life, while they may not have changed, take on an entirely new meaning.  This new meaning, then, begins to reflect that you do make a difference.

– Werner Erhard

 

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