Reason Why Enlightenment is Difficult for you and if happened what is waiting

[James123]

1 minute ago, SOUL said:

@Breakingthewall Just another in the long line of spiritualists who take some drugs then think they are the first and only one to 'see' and 'know' the 'truth'. Just wait a minute...there will be another thread by someone proclaiming it again.... 

You thinking you are the only one who sees and knows the truth, b-b-but NOT even LEO does!!!! You are simply another young soul that will continue to expand in awareness.

The reason I do know you do actually gaf? You keep posting rushing from thread to thread telling others about it thinking you can teach everyone everything.

Eventually you will mature in the way of being and realize there is an infinite multitude in the 'oneness' not a solitary magnitude in it, it's ok to be young in the way of being.

Because of psychedelics how many people has suicide, including in this form, do you know? Or do you even care just yourself or your family? How many people has been suffering? I was one of them. I am always in and out. İf I want, I can post 100 posts and if it is helpful, why not. İnstead of giving a meal to homeless man, why don't you give 100 of it. You are judging yourself, blocking the help. Why do you try to do it? Even Leo, don't you see what he goes through in his early life stage? İs it bad to care about others? Me and you, we are not special. However, reaching a hand is reaching to 100 hands. 

I have dedicated my life to help anyone.

İnstead of judging who is more awake or not go fucking help people.

[SOUL]

@James123 What you have is a messiah complex and the path is littered with deluded gurus like this. 

[James123]

2 minutes ago, SOUL said:

@James123 What you have is a messiah complex and the path is littered with deluded gurus like this. 

Write while sitting comfortably on your ass, death will wipe you out sooner or later. That's why Buddha, Christ, Krishnamurti, Rumi and many others dedicated them life for others? They are deluded? Yeah.

Edited Tuesday at 12:54 AM by James123

[SOUL]

@Breakingthewall But if they were truly enlightened they are only playing ping pong with themselves... 

[SOUL]

@James123Who is there to help you are alone, we are just figments of your imagination...why are you doing this to yourself?

[James123]

10 minutes ago, SOUL said:

@James123Who is there to help you are alone, we are just figments of your imagination...why are you doing this to yourself?

You think, you are imagining others right? Wait of the death comes to you 😊 and you see are you are special or not 😊

İf you are fragmentation of me, i am fragmentation of you too. So, you shouldn't even write, according to your enlightenment. Lmfao.

Oh, I am sorry, I forget to mention, "you" are more awake then Buddha, Christ, Krishnamurti, Rumi and many others.

Now, please get out.

Edited Tuesday at 01:08 AM by James123

[SOUL]

2 hours ago, James123 said:

Now, please get out.

There is no out or in so I, who doesn't exist, cannot do anything because there is nothing to do...

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, SOUL said:

There is no out or in so I, who doesn't exist, cannot do anything because there is nothing to do...

That's just a thought, stop thinking and enlightenment is already the case. Why are you suffering brother? I love you 💘

@James123 really you don't see it? Really? Look, it's like you've built up an idea of what an enlightened person should be like, and then you act the way that person is supposed to, limiting yourself completely and thus eliminating any real possibility. You're a Taliban of enlightenment, simply because your ego demands to be enlightened. You forbid yourself any doubt or any real depth because that would imply that you're not enlightened, which is unacceptable, impossible, horrible.

If you could choice between obtaining the Enlightened certification and remaining in your current limited state, or recognizing that there's more to deepening and infinitely opening your being, you would choose the first, since the only important thing to you is the official Enlightened certification.

Of course, now you'll think that an Enlightened person is rejected and even crucified, and they respond with love and forgiveness, like your counterpart Jesus Christ, and you'll act accordingly. Don't you really realize what it means to process like this? It's radical narcissism, maximum. This has terrible consequences in life. I'm not saying this to compete with you, but to help you, seriously. 

[James123]

16 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

really you don't see it? Really? Look, it's like you've built up an idea of what an enlightened person should be like, and then you act the way that person is supposed to, limiting yourself completely and thus eliminating any real possibility. You're a Taliban of enlightenment, simply because your ego demands to be enlightened. You forbid yourself any doubt or any real depth because that would imply that you're not enlightened, which is unacceptable, impossible, horrible.

If you could choice between obtaining the Enlightened certification and remaining in your current limited state, or recognizing that there's more to deepening and infinitely opening your being, you would choose the first, since the only important thing to you is the official Enlightened certification.

Of course, now you'll think that an Enlightened person is rejected and even crucified, and they respond with love and forgiveness, like your counterpart Jesus Christ, and you'll act accordingly. Don't you really realize what it means to process like this? It's radical narcissism, maximum. This has terrible consequences in life. I'm not saying this to compete with you, but to help you, seriously

You are identify with your body and mind brother, and not looking for destroying this identification. Go with it and suffer. However, it will be too late when death comes.

 

Edited Tuesday at 06:28 AM by James123

[James123]

3 hours ago, SOUL said:

There is no out or in so I, who doesn't exist, cannot do anything because there is nothing to do...

Why do even writing then? 😊 This is just the Stage that "Glimpsing" of the ox (just the began of the path). Sorry, there is no you, nor ox. 😊 Just get out.

40 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

That's just a thought, stop thinking and enlightenment is already the case. Why are you suffering brother? I love you 💘

This is exactly what I am saying, when you identify yourself with body and mind, you become selfish and much more. Love doesn't pass through the self or attachment or attachment with thinking or body and mind.

However, when one realizes that You are the moment, love, compassion, help, sharing, caring to others are inevitable. Because, in the moment only love is there, if you are in love or be love always, what would you do? 😊 

You guys still don't get it, do you? 😊 

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, James123 said:

You are identify with your body and mind brother, and not looking for destroying this identification. Go with it and suffer. However, it will be too late when death comes.

 

😭

2 hours ago, James123 said:

This is exactly what I am saying, when you identify yourself with body and mind, you become selfish and much more. Love doesn't pass through the self or attachment or attachment with thinking or body and mind.

I said that as a joke. Anyway, you choose being in your character, enjoy it

Edited Tuesday at 09:23 AM by Breakingthewall

[kbone]

@James123 and @SOUL

I appreciate what both of you share. Your expressions are clear to me, and that is rare, to say the least.

Imo, fwiw, I perceive that you two are speaking about/ pointing to the same dealio, and maybe, juuust maybe coming at it from distinct culturo-linguistic frames of reference. 

In how I see it from HERE, knowing the limitations of what this mind 'knows' about either of you, James seems to be a non-native speaker of English from a Low-Context Culture, and SOUL seems to be a native English speaker from a High-Context Culture. English is a very 'precise' language, and languages are inherently dualistic tools that can be interpreted and misinterpreted, depending on the minds using it to communicate. Mastering the system of prepositions in the English alone is a daunting task (there are 150 of them in English, to be exact; 23 in Spanish; some languages don't use them at all, but use particles to express 'relationships' between nouns), And then, add to the fact that some prepositions are also used as participles in verb structures makes shit just get outta hand... requires a whole other lawyer-like awareness of the language. Furthermore, due to the constraints of written language on an anonymous message board, we also lack full awareness of tone, facial expressions, presence of 'character' and other forms of non-verbal communication, so there's that.

But yes, in a way, this type of Truth talk convo hones in on very specific aspects of what is being referred to, pointed to, and/or how things are communicated. It can often involve devolving into a mirror-mirror arguments in which participants end up 'talking past' each other (one mirror is hard enough, hehe) and maybe just say, 'I don't know' and agree to disagree. In my discussions with @Breakingthewall, while I've poked hard a couple times, I've taken all of that into account. I have also offered several opportunities for finding common ground and/or feedback prodding him to clarify, but he doesn't seem willing. As such, and subsequently reading more in his discussions with other folks, it's apparent I was wrong about the degree of clarity I had assumed he was trying to bring to the overall discussion. No biggie; as an ex-educator, I tend to give a little more room for peeps to expand on their ideas/perceptions. He's mostly only alluding to non-duality as a stand alone experience of sorts; evidently, for him, it requires mind-altering substances and/or the perfect 'conditions'. He makes the abiding sense of it sound more super-human than it actually is. In turn, he does not exhibit abiding in/as ND awareness (i.e., HERE/NOW); and a majority of his arguments tend to say such abiding ND is ONLY for a few real 'mystics' (I use that word differently than say Sufi literature would, but get the point). Breaking likes to bring up EXTREME situations about rare/super nasty situations in which most any peeps would naturally have a hard time staying present, and use that as a basis from which to judge. I see such 'reasoning' to be agenda-based, not being present, simple, and/or 'realistic'.

This is not my first rodeo either (with respect to online, intense non-dual Truth talk), but I've also lived most of my adult life as a non-native speaker in other countries/cultures. In the contexts of intercultural communication, really trying to see another mind's intent/values/essence/pointers via language and senses requires an extra layer of assumptions to be put to the side, so to speak. Imo, a message board, on which there are peeps from various countries/cultures, could gain some value if more peeps were aware of such 'cultural dimensions' (like High or Low Context), but that is my experiential/biased opinion. Anyway...

Peacely~~

Carry on.

Edited Tuesday at 11:04 AM by kbone

[James123]

@kbone thank you very much for your comments. Yes, English is my second language. And I don't know much about it.

The link below is kind a nice article version of what I am trying to explain.

Hope this helps to everyone.

Best Regards,

https://blog.buddhagroove.com/zen-ox-herding-an-overview-of-the-10-stages-of-enlightenment/

 

[kbone]

21 minutes ago, James123 said:

@kbone thank you very much for your comments. Yes, English is my second language. And I don't know much about it.

The link below is kind a nice article version of what I am trying to explain.

Hope this helps to everyone.

Best Regards,

https://blog.buddhagroove.com/zen-ox-herding-an-overview-of-the-10-stages-of-enlightenment/

 

I understand you very well, and you are all good in my book. You don't have to reply, but I sensed you are from the Far East somewhere; I got the feeling via your words... could be wrong, of course...doesn't matter. English is a crazy language, though!! 

There was a temple in Kyoto in which the Japanese version of the Ox Herding pictures were housed. I used to collect calligraphy from the various temples I visited, and I got the drawings that day also. I was not mature at all, and it took me a while to intuit what they referred to, of course. In a way, they were part of my entry into the great adventure, as was Zen, but the mountains were my favorite 'teachers'. I would have been absolutely hopeless as a monk, hehe. 

I am very happy that you got past the health issues you mentioned recently. 

Peacely and hugs, Brother 🤟🏼

The Big Love

[Breakingthewall]

@kbone i try to talk with you being polite when I perceive your limitation very clearly. It's absolutely obvious you're speaking from a wounded ego, like James. You're staring at the reinforced concrete wall of narcissism. It's maddening to talk to people who exhibit this trait because they only see their projections. So I'm going to try to stop interacting with those who operate at that level. From experience, I know it's practically impossible for them to break out of it unless they experience a crisis of extreme severity.

Anyway when I interact with severe narcissist like james or kbone, it's not trying a communication with them but as an exercise and to show their face , it's like a hobby , because I know that real communication is absolutely impossible, they only communicate with themselves 

To anyone who's reading this: in life it's extremely important understanding and identify the narcissist behavior. If you do, all your social interaction will be much clean, if you don't do, you will fall in that madness and confusion. Family, couple, friends, work, spirituality....it's in any area. 

Read james123, it's a extremely clear example. 

Don't focus on what he says, focus on the intention behind it. Is he seeking clarity? Communication? Or perhaps seeking to appear? To stand out? To be more? Does he speak from his center or from the periphery? From the periphery implies he operates from outside to feed his self-image; from the center implies he opens his perception and shares his vision.

Kbone is more subtle because he's more intelligent, and it's harder to grasp his game. He's a complete narcissist, absolutely focused on his self-image but with culture and a well-developed conceptual framework, then the self image that he's feeding is more complex, not so simple like james. With lot of nuances but essentially the same. Focus on what emanates from him, feel it. Do you feel expansion or contraction? His speech aims at real communication or at the construction of "someone." It's simple; if you don't develop this intuition, you're lost.

Edited Tuesday at 12:39 PM by Breakingthewall

[James123]

44 minutes ago, kbone said:

I understand you very well, and you are all good in my book. You don't have to reply, but I sensed you are from the Far East somewhere; I got the feeling via your words... could be wrong, of course...doesn't matter. English is a crazy language, though!! 

i am from turkey 😊 

44 minutes ago, kbone said:

There was a temple in Kyoto in which the Japanese version of the Ox Herding pictures were housed. I used to collect calligraphy from the various temples I visited, and I got the drawings that day also. I was not mature at all, and it took me a while to intuit what they referred to, of course. In a way, they were part of my entry into the great adventure, as was Zen, but the mountains were my favorite 'teachers'. I would have been absolutely hopeless as a monk, hehe. 

Amazing 😍 

45 minutes ago, kbone said:

I am very happy that you got past the health issues you mentioned recently. 

Peacely and hugs, Brother 🤟🏼

The Big Love

Thank you very much brother.

Much love to you ❤️ 

Best Regards,

[Breakingthewall]

12 minutes ago, James123 said:

am from turkey 😊 

Really? Last time you spoke perfect Spanish and you lived in new York and work in trade . In fact an user, javfly, who's Spanish and with I had some contact, told me that he spoke by phone a couple of times with you and you were latino originally. Now Turkish fits more to your self image? Why?

Edited Tuesday at 12:54 PM by Breakingthewall

[James123]

32 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

@kbone i try to talk with you being polite when I perceive your limitation very clearly. It's absolutely obvious you're speaking from a wounded ego, like James. You're staring at the reinforced concrete wall of narcissism. It's maddening to talk to people who exhibit this trait because they only see their projections. So I'm going to try to stop interacting with those who operate at that level. From experience, I know it's practically impossible for them to break out of it unless they experience a crisis of extreme severity.

Anyway when I interact with severe narcissist like james or kbone, it's not trying a communication with them but as an exercise and to show their face , it's like a hobby , because I know that real communication is absolutely impossible, they only communicate with themselves 

To anyone who's reading this: in life it's extremely important understanding and identify the narcissist behavior. If you do, all your social interaction will be much clean, if you don't do, you will fall in that madness and confusion. Family, couple, friends, work, spirituality....it's in any area. 

Read james123, it's a extremely clear example. 

Don't focus on what he says, focus on the intention behind it. Is he seeking clarity? Communication? Or perhaps seeking to appear? To stand out? To be more? Does he speak from his center or from the periphery? From the periphery implies he operates from outside to feed his self-image; from the center implies he opens his perception and shares his vision.

Kbone is more subtle because he's more intelligent, and it's harder to grasp his game. He's a complete narcissist, absolutely focused on his self-image but with culture and a well-developed conceptual framework, then the self image that he's feeding is more complex, not so simple like james. With lot of nuances but essentially the same. Focus on what emanates from him, feel it. Do you feel expansion or contraction? His speech aims at real communication or at the construction of "someone." It's simple; if you don't develop this intuition, you're lost.

We love you too brother ❤️ 

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Really? Last time you spoke perfect Spanish and you lived in new York and work in trade 

Yes, I moved back to my country. Spanish? 😊 When? 😊 

[kbone]

22 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

@kbone i try to talk with you being polite when I perceive your limitation very clearly. It's absolutely obvious you're speaking from a wounded ego, like James. You're staring at the reinforced concrete wall of narcissism. It's maddening to talk to people who exhibit this trait because they only see their projections. So I'm going to try to stop interacting with those who operate at that level. From experience, I know it's practically impossible for them to break out of it unless they experience a crisis of extreme severity.

To anyone who's reading this: in life it's extremely important understanding and identify the narcissist behavior. If you do, all your social interaction will be much clean, if you don't do, you will fall in that madness and confusion. Family, couple, friends, work, spirituality....it's in any area. 

Read james123, it's a extremely clear example. 

Don't focus on what he says, focus on the intention behind it. Is he seeking clarity? Communication? Or perhaps seeking to appear? To stand out? To be more? Does he speak from his center or from the periphery? From the periphery implies he operates from outside to feed his self-image; from the center implies he opens his perception and shares his vision.

Kbone is more subtle because he's more intelligent, and it's harder to grasp his game. He's a complete narcissist, absolutely focused on his self-image but with culture and a well-developed conceptual framework, then the self image that he's feeding is more complex, not so simple like james. With lot of nuances but essentially the same. Focus on what emanates from him, feel it. Do you feel expansion or contraction? His speech aims at real communication or at the construction of "someone." It's simple; if you don't develop this intuition, you're lost.

Fascinating. Oooookay. 

Thanks for telling us how your mental structure perceives balanced feedback, makes your reflected sense of self feel (triggered), and then proceeds to defend and to lash out.

I happen to like some of your perspectives and have expressed certain agreements, but when this kind of thing happens.... I'm simply at a loss.

 

"Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it"

"If I love myself, I love you. If I love you, I love myself" 

~Rumi

[kbone]

7 minutes ago, James123 said:

i am from turkey 😊 

Amazing 😍 

Thank you very much brother.

Much love to you ❤️ 

Best Regards,

I did not think Turkiye!! 

My wife and I have ALWAYS been amazed by so many aspects of your country and have always wanted to visit there! 😍😎

Much love to you and yours, Brother 🤟🏼