The self

[Sugarcoat]

56 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Of course, and that opinion is the key that closes. 

Look, you read Acim and don't realize you're choosing the good and rejecting the bad? If you want enlightenment, you have to make a difficult move. You have to say with absolute sincerity: Give me pain, give me torture, give me children impaled in front of their mothers. Break my heart and shatter it. I open myself to it. I take the cup and drink its contents to the bottom without hesitation. I surrender myself to crucifixion, to total pain, to total loneliness, to total humiliation, to indescribable torture. 

But of course, some seconds later I think: no no, please, wtf?? I was joking, no way, I don't want that shit.

But you have to accept it in your heart at least for a moment, to be one with the whole. If not you are always two. You don't need to do this move all time, just once, but absolutely true. It's an energetic movement. 

From an unlimited perspective it's the same being a king or a dwarf selling by his mother to be tortured in a circus of psychopaths. Both are, that's everything. It's difficult to see from the human perspective. 

You can’t accept something in your mind that you’re not experiencing. It’s easy to say “I accept torture” while you’re not undergoing torture. To be in the midst of torture it’s , I would say, near impossible to accept as a human, you’d have to have radical consciousness or some kind of extreme mindfulness ability, or a spontaneous surrender of the ego occurs, like I heard eckhart tolle said someone awakened in the holocaust, but it’s extremely rare.

Its easy to feel like there’s no resistance to reality in you when you are in decent situation 

[gettoefl]

13 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

You can’t accept something in your mind that you’re not experiencing. It’s easy to say “I accept torture” while you’re not undergoing torture. To be in the midst of torture it’s , I would say, near impossible to accept as a human, you’d have to have radical consciousness or some kind of extreme mindfulness ability, or a spontaneous surrender of the ego occurs, like I heard eckhart tolle said someone awakened in the holocaust, but it’s extremely rare.

Its easy to feel like there’s no resistance to reality in you when you are in decent situation 

You need to go step by step. Other people's pain is training wheels, step one. It prepares me, it hardens me. I can easily learn to dissolve another's pain, to heal them etc. Then I can take some baby steps myself and it's not so bad. Eventually I can take the full force like Jesus did. I am not a body after all. When I accept this world isn't the reality, I am free of it and it troubles me no longer. The body doesn't feel pain in any case. It is insentient and merely doing what the mind bids. And that is to prove that this is a separated reality. That is made up nonsense.

Edited Tuesday at 04:50 PM by gettoefl

[Sugarcoat]

4 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

You need to go step by step. Other people's pain is training wheels, step one. It prepares me, it hardens me. Then I can take some baby steps and it's not so bad. Eventually I can take the full force like Jesus did. I am not a body after all. When I accept this world isn't the reality, I am free of it and it troubles me no longer.

So you’d be okay being crucified lol?

I can see that there are degrees to it. One would be as you say removing the psychological fear. So not reacting with fear when thinking about it or seeing others suffering. But then when it happens to you is whole nother ballpark

[James123]

1 minute ago, Sugarcoat said:

So you’d be okay being crucified lol?

I am very sorry to get in.

But, what can you do, if it is happening?Even if you like it or not like it, will anything be change?

[Sugarcoat]

2 minutes ago, James123 said:

I am very sorry to get in.

But, what can you do, if it is happening?Even if you like it or not like it, will anything be change?

No ofc not

My point is just that you can stop resisting right now when you’re in decent life situation. But under the worst circumstances it’s almost impossible for human to not resist

So when people talk about acceptance you can’t say you accept something that is only idea in your mind and not your reality 

Edited Tuesday at 04:56 PM by Sugarcoat

[gettoefl]

9 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

So you’d be okay being crucified lol?

I can see that there are degrees to it. One would be as you say removing the psychological fear. So not reacting with fear when thinking about it or seeing others suffering. But then when it happens to you is whole nother ballpark

Pain is one basic tool for awakening. That is why meditation needs a little discomfort to click in the reality and stick there. If you lay in your bed blissing out your chakras, you are having fun perhaps but also deceiving yourself. Pain can assuredly be transcended since the body has nothing to do with me in truth.

Edited Tuesday at 04:59 PM by gettoefl

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, gettoefl said:

Pain is one basic tool for awakening. That is why meditation needs a little discomfort to click in the reality and stick there. If you lay in your bed blissing out your chakras, you are having fun perhaps but also deceiving yourself. 

I can see how pain can be a tool and I agree with your point about meditation. 

[gettoefl]

3 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

I can see how pain can be a tool and I agree with your point about meditation. 

I think pain doesn't need addressing directly. It is a measure of whether you are still attached in the world. If every little thing bothers you there is plenty of work to be done. And when I say bother I mean physical ailments too. The more awake I have become niggling body problems don't even register now.

[James123]

18 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

No ofc not

My point is just that you can stop resisting right now when you’re in decent life situation. But under the worst circumstances it’s almost impossible for human to not resist

So when people talk about acceptance you can’t say you accept something that is only idea in your mind and not your reality 

Mind is you. When one accepts anything and everything, future and past vanishes, therefore mind doesn't chat anymore. Only, present moment is there.

Of course, if you "think" that what you are is human being, no one can not accept it. But, if one realizes that the one is a human as a self (which is temporary reflection), however, fundamentally or eternally what the one is, There is Nothing there.

So, controlling inevitably vanishes.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

You can’t accept something in your mind that you’re not experiencing. It’s easy to say “I accept torture” while you’re not undergoing torture

It's a symbolic act of surrender. It's like taking a psychedelic trip and releasing a trauma. It's an energetic thing that happens. It's not literal; it's the temporary dissolution of the barrier between what you desire and what you fear. It's deep meditation. You don't literally say those words, but rather you surrender to whatever it is. You open your heart to the "bad" and stop differentiating it from the "good."

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

know that I orchestrated all this to trick myself into getting triggered

How do you know that? It's just a possibility that you assume as true, a belief 

[Sugarcoat]

39 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

I think pain doesn't need addressing directly. It is a measure of whether you are still attached in the world. If every little thing bothers you there is plenty of work to be done. And when I say bother I mean physical ailments too. The more awake I have become niggling body problems don't even register now.

Has your awakedness changed the experience of the pain or is it just that you’ve accepted it, meaning it’s the same it’s just your mind is different ?

I struggle with that

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

easy to feel like there’s no resistance to reality in you when you are in decent situation

It isn't if you really perceive your fear. There's an energetic barrier of enormous force that separates the bad from the good. It's innate.

I once took LSD, and at one point, I began to think about something I'd read: Congolese guerrillas forced 8-year-old children to torture their mothers, then kill them and eat their breasts, turning them into murderous psychopaths and slaves. I couldn't escape those images, from the child's perspective, then the mother's, then the guerrilla's, for hours. Then I began to see concentric circles of moaning impaled bodies around an enormous mountain of corpses. I saw all the human pain, the cruelty, the human fragility. It was impossible to escape, and impossible to accept. I was subject to it, but I couldn't accept it. At one point, after many hours,  I accepted it, and everything exploded like a soap bubble, and reality completely equalized. It was an act of the heart, an energetic movement. 

It's not real, not like accepting that you are going to be tortured tomorrow, it's a inner acceptation of what is "bad" in your deep programming. That's meditation, not silence the mind but perceive your energy. It's much more deeper than concept vs silence, it's inside, written in your genes

The point is not really accept being tortured, it's perceiving your energetic barriers that take the form of thoughts, preference, fear. See them directly and dissolve it that moment, it's like a game, that's meditation. Your thoughts are an expression of your energetic structure, that structure closes. It's possible to see it and change it. Of course, if tomorrow I'm going to be tortured, I'm going to get absolutely closed and on panic, I just can open those barriers in meditation, they are absolutely real, impossible to break absolutely but you can dissolve them a while 

Edited Tuesday at 06:30 PM by Breakingthewall

[gettoefl]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

How do you know that? It's just a possibility that you assume as true, a belief 

Everything is projection. When you see bad people, you are just judging what is inside of you and so your senses are always seeking out witnesses to prove its own guilt. It is inescapable and completely logical if you look deep within.

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, gettoefl said:

Everything is projection. When you see bad people, you are just judging what is inside of you and so your senses are always seeking out witnesses to prove its own guilt. It is inescapable and completely logical if you look deep within.

Not everything is a projection, when I perceive fear In me it's not a projection, it's a reality, a energetic structure. That fear closes.

[gettoefl]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

Has your awakedness changed the experience of the pain or is it just that you’ve accepted it, meaning it’s the same it’s just your mind is different ?

I struggle with that

I became more desensitised to the feeling. I feel deep compassion and gratitude to the body for its actions but it's ultimately just a place holder for me and I remind myself not to think less of it but to think of it less. It is like one of my pets. I don't want it so suffer pain but when it does we'll get through it.

[gettoefl]

11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Not everything is a projection, when I perceive fear In me it's not a projection, it's a reality, a energetic structure. That fear closes.

Projection and protection are the same thing. What else is fear? It's that you might remember what you are. You need to be protected from that. Therefore you contract yourself and withdraw and start over. It is evolutionary defence.

Edited Tuesday at 07:09 PM by gettoefl

[Breakingthewall]

17 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

Projection and protection are the same thing. What else is fear? It's that you might remember what you are. You need to be protected from that. Therefore you contract yourself and withdraw and start over. It is evolutionary defence.

I can't know that I'm creating this experience as god as you said, but is a lion appears, I know that I ve a extremely strong feeling that we call fear, it's a reality that happens . Then I can work in that energetic reality, see what it is, go deep in its nature. but Im not going to think that im god and that because it's just something that anyone said

Edited Tuesday at 07:25 PM by Breakingthewall

[gettoefl]

10 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I can't know that I'm creating this experience as god as you said, but is a lion appears, I know that I ve a extremely strong feeling that we call fear, it's a reality that happens . Then I can work in that energetic reality, see what it is, go deep in its nature. but Im not going to think that im god and that because it's just something that anyone said

Yes indeed. You can't run before you walk. You have to work up to it. You have to do what it takes to keep the body in good condition and safe. All the while practice the fact that you are the one creating this reality. How you do this is by forgiveness. Any form or experience is worthless and a trap. All it wants to do is keep you here spinning your wheels. You don't need to play ball. See that beneath the form there is an innocent presence abiding. Acknowledging that changes everything. You are turning hell into heaven. Then life becomes a whole lot more fun. Any time that irritation arises in the world that is the clue that outer form has ensnared you and you need to step back and heal that unforgiveness you are laboring under.

Edited Tuesday at 07:35 PM by gettoefl

[Breakingthewall]

11 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

All the while practice the fact that you are the one creating this reality

If you assume ideas that have not a real foundation you are stuck. Your mental structure must be open to see, and those ideas are a limit. 

If you prefer keep those barriers, it's your choice, but at the end are a jail