The self

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, James123 said:

How you learned that that's a stone, go back till how you learned the universe or movement. Till you forget everything as before so called birth, i meet you there. 

You can't meet me there because we are here, and here there are stones 

Edited July 10 by Breakingthewall

[James123]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You can't meet me there because we are here, and here there are stones 

You are there, Now is the source (when attached with thinking, it seems you are in the world, that's what illusion is), left is story brother. 

I love you.

[Breakingthewall]

32 minutes ago, James123 said:

You are there, Now is the source (when attached with thinking, it seems you are in the world, that's what illusion is), left is story brother. 

I love you.

So there is an illusion. Maybe that idea makes you feel safe. Neo advaita is seductive because it sells that there is not suffering, you could be lazy that doesn't matter, fight is an illusion, stop breathing because it's an illusion. It could be useful as anesthesia if the reality doesn't gets hard. But who needs anesthesia if the reality isn't hard? When it gets hard, all those ideas will be useless 

Edited July 10 by Breakingthewall

[James123]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

So there is an illusion. Maybe that idea makes you feel safe. Neo advaita is seductive because it sells that there is not suffering, you could be lazy that doesn't matter, fight is an illusion, stop breathing because it's an illusion. It could be useful as anesthesia if the reality doesn't gets hard. But who needs anesthesia if the reality isn't hard? When it gets hard, all those ideas will be useless 

Not idea, ideas are based on action, which is thinking, even laziness is an action, because you don't want to move.

Actionless is not even letting go, there is no effort on it. 

No effort, because You are already there/here/now.

[Sugarcoat]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

The self is as real as a table, but more definite, more than a table as a plant, It's a structure that carries within itself the pattern of its form. A table isn't that. A universe is. The self is a universe within another universe, like any life form. An any living (and not living) being it is interconnected with all of reality, but it is a defined relational structure. Defined does not mean separate, since it is connected in all its dimensions. But while it exists, it is a defined living structure. Real, definite, with apparent limits, like a cell or a plant. 

Ok…

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

Ok…

Lol

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Lol

Say that there is no self and nothing ever happened 😅

[Princess Arabia]

There is no illusion. The only illusion is the appearance of a separate self. The illusion is the sense that there are people walking around in these bodies. The illusion is the one that thinks it's at the center and is located somewhere in time and space. It's a felt sense. It feels real, very real, very very real. To the point where it invents stories and ideas around it's existence and now every thing that appears is in relation to it. I'm over here and it is over there. That's the only illusion. There is no self as in a real person having free will in these bodies. 

[Princess Arabia]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Say that there is no self and nothing ever happened 😅

There is no self and nothing is really happening, as for there to be something really happening, there has to be time and space existing on their own and this has to be going in a direction. This is directionless and isn't coming from anywhere nor going anywhere. If there is no observer time and space isn't a felt sense just as in sleeping.

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Princess Arabia said:

There is no self and nothing is really happening, as for there to be something really happening, there has to be time and space existing on their own and this has to be going in a direction. This is directionless and isn't coming from anywhere nor going anywhere. If there is no observer time and space isn't a felt sense just as in sleeping.

Locally they are, as you can see. From an unlimited perspective there is not movement, only substance, the totality. But from a local perspective a lot of things are happening 

[Princess Arabia]

No one is disputing the fact that feelings aren't felt and things aren't appearing as something is happening. Arguing that to drop a hammer on the foot and see if it doesn't hurt is not a valid claim to say that something is definitely happening because of that or that there's someone actually feeling anything. There's no proof there and nothing can be proven either.

Edited July 10 by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Locally they are, as you can see. From an unlimited perspective there is not movement, only substance, the totality. But from a local perspective a lot of things are happening 

Sure, why even discuss that, that's quite obvious. We're discussing the thing that's not that obvious and what really is the case. Locality is illusory, perspectives are illusory, there is no real substance to anything. Can't have totality...but. It is either total or it's not. The illusory stuff just isn't happening and doesn't exist. The only thing real is nothing which is appearing as everything and an appearance is void of substance. 

[Breakingthewall]

12 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Locality is illusory, perspectives are illusory,

It's not illusory, it just is. It's a perspective and it's infinite, there are infinite forms, becoming , perspectives. You can't avoid that fact. 

12 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

The illusory stuff just isn't happening and doesn't exist. The only thing real is nothing which is appearing as everything and an appearance is void of substance. 

No, the unlimited is absolutely full. It's substance is alive because it has not limits. The fact of limitlessness makes the reality being. Be is everything, is the absolute power. Is the total potential, with the power of infinite universes . Is direct, alive, full. It's unfathomable, reality have unlimited power , it's wild, and it's joy even in the destruction and pain, because it is

Edited July 10 by Breakingthewall

[Princess Arabia]

This is like a night dream, except there's no one dreaming. The person is the dream. One doesn't say in a dream, this hammer doesn't hurt because it's just a dream, that shit hurts in the dream. Is the dream really happening or going anywhere or does it have a center or location. Is there a self in the dream. No one wakes up from the dream because there's no one and a dream to wake up from. When the body dies, the body dies and there's no one left to know that. There's no one here already, this is appearing as a sense, a sense that senses there's a person in this body. The body doesn't need a person to operate, it does it all on it's own. Decisions are decisions and actions are seeming to happen but no one is doing that. 

[Princess Arabia]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

No, the unlimited is absolutely full. It's substance is alive because it has not limits.

No limits mean unpolarized and unpolarized suggests neither dead nor alive. It is full and empty simultaneously. You say it's alive because it has no limits; well, that's a limit - to be alive.

Edited July 10 by Princess Arabia

[Breakingthewall]

16 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

No limits mean unpolarized and unpolarized suggests neither dead nor alive. It is full and empty simultaneously. You say it's alive because it has no limits; well, that's a limit - to be alive.

It's alive because it is, it could not be and be, but being superimposed to not being. But agree, alive is bad word, better open. About the center, let's see, from that center, I perceive that I, as a center, am a perceiver, but that I, as a substance, am the opening. The opening is absolutely impersonal, but at the same time, I am that. The perceiver is a circumstantial perspective, a structure that occurs; the real is the opening that lives. Life not as a relationship but as a being. As if, given its absence of limits, it is that which I am. The perceiver is always there because it is my structure now, but they are lines; the real is the opening 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

You say it's alive because it has no limits; well, that's a limit

Great point. Alive is focusing in a facet. The absolute is not alive, life is just as conciousness, a facet, a possibility that happens. It's difficult to detach yourself from it because we exist, but non existence is the same than existence from the absolute perspective. The absolute is open, period. Then life , intelligence, etc are, but they aren't the absolute, are a expression of the absolute. But as they are a possibility, the absolute implies them, in the openess they are always implicit, same than everything 

Absolute potential isn't something defined, but the fact of its limitlessness always implies all possibilities. It's not a tranquil, empty nothingness; it's the bottomless imbued with totality.

 

Edited July 10 by Breakingthewall

[Princess Arabia]

47 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's difficult to detach yourself from it because we exist,

It's not difficult, it's impossible. Cannot detach from all there is and what's not separate. 

[Breakingthewall]

10 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

It's not difficult, it's impossible. Cannot detach from all there is and what's not separate. 

59 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

Not detaching but see through the structures. 

Let's see, total openness is not "nothing" because it includes "everything." Even though it isn't "something," it is imbued with all things. It is fullness, not emptiness, because the moment a possibility is possible, it is absolutely full of potential. If all possibilities are possible, its power is absolute. If you open yourself to it, the sensation is overwhelming. You can only do to some extent since you are a form; opening it completely would kill you. You are limits, if you totally break your limits, means that you are not a form anymore. You could become transparent, but not inexistent, unless you really stop existing as a form.

Edited July 10 by Breakingthewall

[Princess Arabia]

8 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Let's see, total openness is not "nothing" because it includes "everything." Even though it isn't "something," it is imbued with all things. It is fullness, not emptiness, because the moment a possibility is possible, it is absolutely full of potential.

"Everything" is empty, no substance and doesn't have it's own reality. Yes, nothing is being everything and appearing as and can be full or empty depending on how you want to look at it. There are no potentials, it's immediate and appears as...potential suggests time and space. It is also every seeming potential. So, potential is nothing appearing as potential and is not full of it.

Edited July 11 by Princess Arabia