The fallacy of self help

[Inliytened1]

38 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Look, supposedly this is a forum of spirituality, supposedly serious. I just did a not bad tesis about some essential matters in actual spirituality and you come with that of poop? Are you....well, put the adjective . Seriously,.try to go deep, out of your dogmas that make you feel so safe. 

I believe i went deep.  Do you agree that reality is imaginary? If you do then you have to include the physical body.

Edited 19 hours ago by Inliytened1

[SOUL]

Get out of your dogmas! Believe mine instead! This is too funny...

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Jordan said:

Who says that if you suffer, you are causing it? That sound a bit silly. You can reduce suffering by interpreting in a different way but not choosing to reduce suffering is not the same as causing yourself suffering. Suffering is because you can't accept things the way they are. There is a limit to how much you can accept but you can expand that limit pretty far. It is about how you interpret your experience. You do have some control over that.

Yes there are always going to be things outside of your control.  Thats because as God limits have been placed upon you. By you. Not as the ego but as God.  This may piss a lot of people off especially people into Jesus and religion.  But what I'm telling you is the Truth.   

[SOUL]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I believe i went deep.  Do you agree that reality is imaginary? If you do then you have to include the physical bidy.

As long as it's not the P diddy ...because no diddy

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, SOUL said:

As long as it's not the P diddy ...because no diddy

Not that deep 😕

[SOUL]

28 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Look, supposedly this is a forum of spirituality, supposedly serious.

A seeker thinks spirituality is serious, once one ceases the doing of 'seeking' then the cosmic joke is gotten. Doing the 'serious work of spirituality' is what keeps that which is 'sought' from realization of being.

Yet the myriad of beliefs and conceptualizations that are created by the mind and ego are the stumbling blocks to well being, they tell you if you do the spirituality wrong you get no cookie.

Edited 19 hours ago by SOUL

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Jordan said:

Suffering is because you can't accept things the way they are

According to mainstream spirituality, this is creating suffering, not accepting reality as it is, resisting it. This is true; suffering is resistance, wanting things to be different, that's the human nature.

According to spirituality, the solution to this is to realize that the self is an illusion, so "wanting" is also an illusion, a misinterpretation that has trapped you and that you can let go at any moment. But the self is a completely real structure, and so is suffering. It doesn't matter if its source is not accepting or anything .

Then, you could erase the suffering erasing the self, that's erasing the will and the preference. Convincing yourself that reality is empty, nothing, then you prefer nothing. This is violence. It's possible, you can do it, you can even burn yourself to death without lifting a finger. This way, you're putting your enormous will not to suffer and your enormous fear of suffering above your nature. Instead of flowing perfectly in synchrony with life, you violate yourself and withdraw yourself. You die in life. It's pure fear and pure will disguised as the absence of fear and will. Absolute arrogance disguised of humility.

Edited 18 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Inliytened1]

31 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

According to mainstream spirituality, this is creating suffering, not accepting reality as it is, resisting it. This is true; suffering is resistance, wanting things to be different, that's the human nature.

According to spirituality, the solution to this is to realize that the self is an illusion, so "wanting" is also an illusion,

 

 

Not necessarily. When you sit and do self inquiry you're not desiring anything you are just doing an inquiry 

Edited 17 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, SOUL said:

seeker thinks spirituality is serious, once one ceases the doing of 'seeking' then the cosmic joke is gotten.

What is the cosmic joke?

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

Not necessarily. When you sit and do self inquiry you're not desiring anything you are just doing an inquiry 

Self inquiry is meditation or asking yourself what you are? Both are doing with a purpose 

[Breakingthewall]

If you enter into deep meditation, it's common to perceive the reality of form as an insubstantial hologram superimposed upon absolute emptiness. This can be perceived as either horrible nihilism or absolute calm. In both cases, it's a limited perspective, since there is a remainder of the observer observing something external to them.

If this state of absolutely nothing is sustained long enough, the observer who gazes into the limitless void shifts and becomes the limitless void. At that moment, the barriers fall and totality manifests. Absolute potential and absolute being manifest as an inevitable consequence of the absence of limits. There is no bottom, and therefore, reality is. You are. You are total.

Any form is total, and outside and inside overlap without limit. It is the exact opposite of an illusion; it is reality. Illusion is precisely a comparative idea. If you realize the unreality of what is, it is because you are outside of it. If you merge with it, you will see its total reality. Reality is absolutely alive, unfathomable, and you are that. You expand, and in doing so, you open your heart, closed by fear. There, you realize you are home; you always are. You are. In that is everything. 

[Breakingthewall]

In other words, if you keep opening the frame of possibilities, all possibilities appear. If you keep opening the frame, all possibilities blur and erase their definition; only their essence, their substance, remains. That substance doesn't blur; it remains intact, with a total, infinite openness. That substance is exactly you. But that substance isn't something; it's the openness itself, it's what you are.

[Breakingthewall]

Going a little further, your ultimate nature is openness, limitlessness. You might think: this is the cause of being. But it would be more precise: this is being. Openness and being are one and the same reality; being is to exist, and openness is existence, since it is open. You might think: if there is being, there is intelligence, since there is relationship, coherence. It would be more precise to say: being and intelligence are one, an equivalence, since what is incoherent is not. You might also think: if reality is open, it flows, expands, sprouts, causes infinite energy, infinite love. More than cause, it is equivalence. Openness, by its nature, is flow, it is energy, bottomless, infinitely alive.

[SOUL]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

What is the cosmic joke?

It is quite brave of you after thousands of posts on this forum proclaiming some sort of mystical understanding to simply admit that you haven't transcended the 'seeking' of something other and 'doing' of spiritual work not required so instead just abide in being present and the cosmic joke is revealed in awareness.

Once that is then the joke will be gotten.

[Breakingthewall]

12 minutes ago, SOUL said:

It is quite brave of you after thousands of posts on this forum proclaiming some sort of mystical understanding to simply admit that you haven't transcended the 'seeking' of something other and 'doing' of spiritual work not required so instead just abide in being present and the cosmic joke is revealed in awareness.

Once that is then the joke will be gotten.

In all of your post rage is perceived. That's the cosmic joke? It's not so funny 

Let's see, then the real cosmic joke is? That the seeker is not seeking or what? Really I don't know that. I don't see any joke in the unfathomable that lives. I see absolute life, without bottom 

If something lives, reality lives. If you perceive your life, it is the absolute life of reality. It is total plenitude. It is the simple consequence of limitlessness; it is unfathomable, and its vitality is infinite. If you perceive a spark of life in you, that life has no limits; it permeates infinity. There is no boundary between living and nonliving; there is existence. That is openness. It is absolute life, and it is perceived directly now; that is what reality is.

Edited 15 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[UnbornTao]

You misunderstand. The type of suffering caused by you is conceptual in nature. Stubbing your toe isn't what this principle refers to - though we often add suffering on top of physical pain.

Now, look at how much you suffer that isn't strictly physical: longing, worry, anxiety, fear, jealousy, depression, anger, anguish, struggle, disappointment, feeling worthless, incapable or incomplete, emptiness, resentment, and so on. That is the suffering you do.

If you can truly make that shift - not just intellectually, but as a lived reality - then living in the now does eliminate a great deal of suffering. But this isn't something that comes easily. It requires significant mind training. For instance, fear only exists in relation to an imagined scenario happening in the future, and resentment only in relation to a remembered past. Neither the future nor the past exists now.

I'd avoid speculation or trivializing the matter. A belief that "there is no self" is just that - a belief. It’s better to be honest with oneself about what's experienced. 

The nature of pain is a very advanced topic, so it's better left open for now.

Edited 14 hours ago by UnbornTao

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

You misunderstand. The suffering that's caused by you is conceptual in kind; stubbing your toe isn't what the principle is referring to - even though we often also add suffering onto the physical pain. Now, look at how much you suffer that isn't strictly physical in nature: longing for something, worry, anxiety, fear, jealousy, depression, anger, anguish, struggle, disappointment, feeling worthless and incomplete, emptiness, resentment, and so on. This is the suffering that you do. 

I'd avoid speculating and trivializing the matter. A believe that there's no self is just that, a belief. It is better to be straightforward with oneself about what is what in one's experience. 

The nature of pain is an advanced topic, so better to leave it open. 

It's exactly the same the suffering caused by the anxiety or by a stone, are arising that happens. Are the structure that the reality is taking now. Suffering is the same than anything else. 

 

8 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

The nature of pain is an advanced topic, so better to leave it open. 

Yeah sorry, I'm too brave right? I'm not in that level of understanding . But id say that the nature of pain is the nature of reality 

Edited 15 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

The goal of spirituality is to freely abandon the limited perspective and situate oneself in the unlimited perspective. From this perspective, there is no qualitative difference between anything; everything is, and is unfathomable, alive, and totally existing. This doesn't mean that the limited perspective is false, only that it is limited. And being límited closes the perception of the true nature in exchange of the perception of the structure. It's quite simple and obvious, nothing mysterious at all, it's exactly what you are

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

I believe i went deep.  Do you agree that reality is imaginary? If you do then you have to include the physical body.

Try to get this: any idea with an opposite comes from the limited perspective and means absolutely nothing in the unlimited perspective. Imaginary is the opposite than real, that difference is relative, limited. Imaginary is limited by real, and real is limited by imaginary. They are just ideas, from an absolute perspective there is only the openess to the nature of reality. The nature of reality can't be named because it has not opposite, it's the reality. You could call it life, because death is just change, or being because not being is not, but both are just pointers. 

[UnbornTao]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's exactly the same the suffering caused by the anxiety or by a stone, are arising that happens. Are the structure that the reality is taking now. Suffering is the same than anything else. 

You think that you are at the mercy of suffering, but this just isn't true. Do not overlook your role in that. It doesn't just arise on its own, nor is it caused by external circumstances, even though it might appear to be that way. It is actively generated by you in order to serve some particular purpose. Remember, we're not talking about physical pain, but rather "mental" suffering. Make the investigation grounded and real. For example, it is undeniable that, in your experience, joy is one thing, and boredom another. Being clear as to what is what is required in this case, since we're dealing with something relative - an activity.

Quote

Yeah sorry, I'm too brave right? I'm not in that level of understanding . But id say that the nature of pain is the nature of reality 

I mean, you could look into it, but I'd begin with common forms of suffering, and then tackle pain. But it is seriously an advanced one. I'm not claiming to be conscious of its nature, btw.

Edited 12 hours ago by UnbornTao