Is Charisma and Game all just faking status?

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, RawJudah said:

I’m 31. Too late to talk to thousands of women?

Nope. You could talk to 1000 women in 2 months.

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, vinc3nc said:

"Beautiful women are more plentiful than successful men."

That's not true.

It's much easier to create success than to create beauty. Beauty is rarer and more valuable than success. Which is why celebrities and models make so much money and have so much fame. It's disproportionate to their level of effort and work. They work very little and make insane amounts.

Edited June 20 by Leo Gura

[zurew]

It seems to me that John Vervaeke's framework of different ways of knowing would be very useful if it was applied to other things (not to just philosophy and cognitive science). Like when it comes to dating the idea that you can solve your issues with propositional knowledge is just false. You dont just need to learn skills but to when and how to apply those skills in a dynamic environment.

For that to work you need to be in a completely different way of being (the things you find relevant and how your brain aspectualize the world and people is completely different) . So you either need to go through some serious self transformation (where most of the work can be done well from your subsconscious mind) or you need to be good at actually playing certain roles (where you can embody a given character so fully that you see and process everything through that character).

[Princess Arabia]

36 minutes ago, Onecirrus said:

@Princess Arabia I guess the woman usually gets the better end of the deal. We have to put in like 1000% more effort to get even mediocre results. But what about Charles Manson? These girls ruined their lives for him

This is a misconception. Women or men don't get the better end of the deal simply because of gender. Not even looks for women or status for men. People carry a type of energy that attracts a certain type of energy. It all depends on the energy and not what the person has or doesn't have. This is why we see 'odd' couples all the time. Meaning an attractive woman with a very ordinary looking or ugly man or even poor or a man of status with ugly women or mean and nasty women or whatever the 'odd' in society's eyes is.

Women put in work too, it's just they put in the work undercover to get baited. Men also put in the work but it's to catch the bait. Both put in work. Most women aren't that beautiful without make up or exercise or eating healthy, etc, that's work to a woman; men it's personality wise because that's what attracts women mostly while for men it's looks. Women work on their looks or try to maintain what they have which takes work, especially if they're older.

Not sure about the Charles Manson story; not familiar.

Edited June 20 by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

37 minutes ago, vinc3nc said:

"Beautiful women are more plentiful than successful men."

guess whos the prize

Neither one constitutes what a prize is on it's own.

[Onecirrus]

6 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

This is a false misconception. Women or men don't get the better end of the deal simply because of gender. Not even looks for women or status for men. People carry a type of energy that attracts a certain type of energy. It all depends on the energy and not what the person has or doesn't have. This is why we see 'odd' couples all the time. Meaning an attractive woman with a very ordinary looking or ugly man or even poor or a man of status with ugly women or mean and nasty women. 

Women put in work too, it's just they put in the work undercover to get baited. Men also put in the work but it's to catch the bait. Both put in work. Most women aren't that beautiful without make up or exercise or eating healthy, etc, that's work to a woman; men it's personality wise because that's what attracts women mostly while for men it's looks. Women work on their looks or try to maintain what they have which takes work, especially if they're older.

Not sure about the Charles Manson story; not familiar.

Women do not need to become, they just need to be. Becoming a man is like forging a sword, it is a much more painful violent process. Men have always been held to a higher standard of conduct and character.
 

Manson pretty much had a harem of women killing his enemies for him, I think he is a rare example of a male prize.

[Princess Arabia]

9 minutes ago, Onecirrus said:

Women do not need to become, they just need to be. Becoming a man is like forging a sword, it is a much more painful violent process. Men have always been held to a higher standard of conduct and character.

I think you missed my point. The last sentence of your statements said what I meant by men a needing to work on their personality. As far as women need to just be, how many men would go for very unattractive women who hasn't put themselves together in some way or fashion, especially on a night on the town. They can just be after that, but I'm saying the work is done beforehand to attract.

[Onecirrus]

@Princess ArabiaI think fashion and beauty is pretty low effort, a woman can literally pay for this stuff. Masculinity can’t be bought in a salon. I got my ass kicked by the sky for over a year before my first solo flight as a pilot, the fear and adversity I overcame was unimaginable, but that growth can’t be developed any other way. Despite all that, I’m still a pretty mediocre petty man. A woman has to do far less to be considered a great woman, but I think this is the natural order of things.

[Princess Arabia]

7 minutes ago, Onecirrus said:

@Princess ArabiaI think fashion and beauty is pretty low effort, a woman can literally pay for this stuff. Masculinity can’t be bought in a salon. I got my ass kicked by the sky for over a year before my first solo flight as a pilot, the fear and adversity I overcame was unimaginable, but that growth can’t be developed any other way. Despite all that, I’m still a pretty mediocre petty man. A woman has to do far less to be considered a great woman, but I think this is the natural order of things.

Women also work on their personal development. A man can also pay a coach on how to be more masculine. You're underestimating what it takes to be a woman. I don't down-play what men have to go through at times to get the women they want but for both, it's of a different kind of work and one is not more hard-working than the other. It's just in different ways. The same as how men can thrive in competitive roles and women might not do as good and women can thrive in unity-based and having great female role models, while men might not need that as much and strive to be more independent based. It's different for both genders. 

Women are constantly on the watch for predators also, it's a lot of mental work to vet a guy for safety. How many men have to worry about being raped or taken advantaged of sexually. Not too often. Women don't necessarily get the better end of the stick. There's a lot at stake there for us. Men too, but like I said it's in a different way. Neither has to put in any work, but men aren't necessarily putting in more. Just to get laid, yes some and maybe most, but that's just because all he wants initially is sex. Speaking on those who say they have to work to get laid. Women put in a lot of self-development work to get the guy that will provide and protect her and take her off the market meaning marriage. Most men will not just marry any woman. There are plenty of coaches out there teaching women how to get high-value men. Those men are not your every-day run of the mill and a woman has to know and understand how these men roll. They're not looking for sex, but a lifestyle which takes work and dedication no matter how you look at it if you weren't born into it. That's work.

 

[Onecirrus]

@Princess Arabia Look, I am not just talking about dating, but I acknowledge your struggles. But men who do not ‘put in work’ end up on the street, no one wants to take care of a grown ass man. I think it’s harder for us, but I also think it should be that way. Like, if your struggles were actually equally as challenging as mine, that would make me feel really inadequate. 

[Princess Arabia]

7 minutes ago, Onecirrus said:

@Princess Arabia Look, I am not just talking about dating, but I acknowledge your struggles. But men who do not ‘put in work’ end up on the street, no one wants to take care of a grown ass man. I think it’s harder for us, but I also think it should be that way. Like, if your struggles were actually equally as challenging as mine, that would make me feel really inadequate. 

No, I get that. In that way, yes I agree. Women have it easier in that way. Lots of men willing to take care of women financially and it's more socially acceptable while the opposite is not. If you had put it this way from the beginning, I would have agreed right off the bat. I thought you were only referring to relationships on a whole where women find it easier to get. 

Edited June 20 by Princess Arabia

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, zurew said:

Like when it comes to dating the idea that you can solve your issues with propositional knowledge is just false.

Course idea for rationalists:

How To Ride A Bicycle With Propositional Knowledge

[Onecirrus]

@Princess Arabia I think maybe it was Owen Cooke who said it, but he said most men are just looking for 6/10 that’s nice to them, and that’s absolutely true in my experience. Now to impress some top tier man, yes their standards are higher, but that is a small fragment of men. A woman doesn’t need to be exceptional to impress most men.

[Princess Arabia]

25 minutes ago, Onecirrus said:

A woman doesn’t need to be exceptional to impress most men.

I see. 

 

 

 

[Onecirrus]

@Princess Arabia <3

[zurew]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Course idea for rationalists:

How To Ride A Bicycle With Propositional Knowledge

Yeah thats a good way to give an intuition pump about the difference between propositional and procedular knowing.

You can read 10 books about how to ride a bike and learn all the facts about it without developing the necessary skill to do so.

I mean procedular knowledge is literally stored in a different memory. You can have a brain injury where you forget a bunch of facts about bicycles and still not lose your ability how to ride a bike.

Edited June 21 by zurew

[vinc3nc]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's not true.

It's much easier to create success than to create beauty. Beauty is rarer and more valuable than success. Which is why celebrities and models make so much money and have so much fame. It's disproportionate to their level of effort and work. They work very little and make insane amounts.

I don't think we're talking about the same thing.

What I meant by beauty in this context are women who would be rated an 8, 9, or 10 in terms of attractiveness. If you go out to a random club, you might see plenty of them, or at least a few, depending on the size of the club and how many people are there.

Now, in that same club, what are the chances that there are more successful men than attractive women?

That might be the case in certain parts of the US since it's the richest country in the world, but overall, that’s usually not the case.

[theleelajoker]

On 20.6.2025 at 11:29 AM, Schizophonia said:

Charisma comes from self-honesty 

+1

And re approaching women honesty also works quite well for me. Trying to truly figure out "what's what I/ you really want/need right now" 

Got to loose the fear of rejection first, but once I reduced it to very low levels or none at all things become very smooth. 

Status is for me just a means to feel safety. Physical safety is given in most of Western world, so that's not a problem. But if I manage to provide emotional safety to a woman it's already halfway to a great experience. 

How do I do it? By being as honest as possible with myself and others. 

I hate the idea that game is about tricking women into doing sth. For me, it's more like verbally/ nonverbally expressing "I feel like talking kissing, touching, sex etc etc, how do you feel about it?" Ideally, a harmonic flow is created between man and woman where all needs are met.

There is a skill to it, I agree with Leo here. And the skill is allowing people to recognize themselves where they keep themselves from their own happyness. For example, the woman says "I can't, I shouldn't I don't want this etc etc" while body language, eyes etc says sth different.

 

Edited Wednesday at 11:46 AM by theleelajoker