Are men or women the prize?

[Emerald]

3 hours ago, CARDOZZO said:

Women do not need men these days. Wake up guys! 

Women are extremely independent. They have all that they want, they achieved everything. 

The protector/provider frame for man is gone. You can find girls that will commit to that but it is rare these days.

Why should they commit to a low value guy who brings nothing to the table?

Even the average girl has 20 guys on her DM screaming to go on a date. 

2020 was the breaking point. Wake up guys.

That's not true that women don't need men. People are not independent. People need each other. We are wired to live interdependently and communally, and it's unhealthy for us to be socially isolated.

And unless the woman is a lesbian or asexual, she is likely going to want/need a male partner at some point in her life.

And there is no such societal change that's going to over-ride those fundamental instincts, nor will there ever be.

Now, as a caveat, the only thing that could stand in as a blockage is if women feel safer outside of a relationship than she feels inside of the relationship. And there's tons of misogyny that's been laid bare and rising in popularity over the past 10 years or so because of social media, which makes women feel unsafe with a sizable minority of the male population.

So, women might be a little more cautious now-a-days compared to before because these safety concerns are more front and center in the collective consciousness than before.

But even still, those instincts and needs for pair-bonding with a male partner run very deep for most women. 

The issue is that you don't understand what women find attractive and appealing about men beyond what's purely functional. Lots of straight men fall into this trap because they can't fathom of what's attractive about men.

And what men value about men and what women value about men tend to be very different.

So, you're thinking logically like women see men as these fungible tools that play a specific functional role in a woman's life. And if a man is just a fungible collection of functions and tools, then why wouldn't the woman go for the man that can perform that function the very best.

And it assumes that practical needs are the only reason why a woman wants a man around.

It's like car parts... why get an average carburetor when you can get a better one?

But this isn't the way women feel about men at all. 

Women are hyper-subjectivizing in their attractions towards men. And a woman can get super obsessed with a guy who's pretty average by objective standards.

And it's about his vibe, the way his voice sounds, his facial expressions, his gestures, the way he thinks, and other tells about his personality. 

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Women need men as much as ever.

The pussy still needs a man. Don't kid yourselves. The desires and needs of the pussy cannot be overturned by some post-modern shinanigans.

To understand women you just ask: What does the pussy need?

Yes, most women need/want a male partner... unless they're a lesbian or asexual.

But I wouldn't boil it down to pure physical sexuality as that's just that one component of what women want/need from a man.

Of course, that an obvious one. But there's more to it than that.

[AION]

8 hours ago, Emerald said:

Of course, on a human level, all people are on equal footing in terms of validity. 

So, this is not a value judgment comparing men and women.

But the type of pairing that works is either one that is totally equal (which is rare)... or is one that the man is very invested in the particular woman and sees her as the prize.

In a situation where the man is the prize, it leads to a desperate woman draining her energy trying to keep a complacent guy who likes her just enough to have sex with her and spend some low investment time with her.

That's what happens when the man is the prize.

But in the opposite situation where the woman is the prize, she can rest in the Feminine. And he will pursue her and invest in her.

And this creates a relationship where both the man and the woman are invested in each other... but the man slightly moreso.

So, if you want a woman to be desperate and obsessed with you while you don't reciprocate her feelings, find a woman who sees you as the prize.

If you want a committed relationship that is stable and can last a long time, only pursue women that you truly see as the prize.

Humans are like apes. There is the pride of the group. And all female apes are drawn to him. That is how we are biologically programmed. 

Like Owen Cook says: humans have created the monogamy culture so weak beta men can procreate but that culture is slowly eroding and we are slowly returning to our biological reality. 

Man is made in the image of god, not women. And he has to take his place in the universe. Letting women take the lead in a relationship almost always leads to disaster because very few women have an integrated animus. A women in lead is out of her feminine and deeply unhappy and desperate to keep the relationship going because of her kids or no better option.

 

Edited June 6 by AION

[Natasha Tori Maru]

7 minutes ago, AION said:

Man is made in the image of god, not women.

Why would man be made in the image of woman, vs God? Is this phrased incorrectly and you are trying to say 'man was made in the image of god, women weren't made in that image?'

I mean if its the latter you got some mind juju 

Edited June 6 by Natasha Tori Maru

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

The pussy doesn't need the man, the emotions do. Women feel horny for...., not because of....they get horny after the fact. It's that particular man, not just any man.

@Leo Gura This is what I was trying to communicate in my previous post.

I'll speak crudely to put it in the same language to make it clearer.

It's not about what the pussy needs, it's about what the heart needs.

And the pussy is just a very primal conduit through which to receive the heart needs.

Like sex without the heart connection is only 30% interesting. It still feels good, but it's not very emotionally stimulating.

But with the heart connection, it's the most intoxicating feeling that exists shy of a drug.

[AION]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's not how it works.

Women are repusled by men who chase them and sleep with guys who don't care about them.

Chasing a women proves to her than the guy is beneath her and that she can find better.

Woman wants what she can barely hold onto. Like a bird trying to swallow the biggest rat that can fit in its mouth hole until it chokes. Then bird blames the rat for nearly killing her. But bird refuses to swallow small rats. Bird looks for another rat she can barely swallow.

That is true. If you want to date a non desperate girl who undoubtedly has good genetics, social standing and good character, you need to be the prize. Because there are so many men who want to get in her pants and sacrifice everything to be with her. Yes she knows she is the prize but to be able to get her as the man you need to flip the script and sub communicate to her that she is not the prize but you are the prize. 

This is key: some things  you never tell a women, like telling her you are the prize. You never tell her explicitly but implicitly.  You need to demonstrate it and sub communicate it. 

Very feminine women don’t have trouble with this. Because it is on their nature to lean on a strong tree. Only masculine females have trouble with this and that is ok too. These women know they are not the top notch of females so they develop other strategies to cope but usually they end up with partners with whom they are dissatisfied and they just put up with. 

Edited June 6 by AION

[Lyubov]

I’ve never met an attractive woman that wanted to be with a man that was more invested in them, and it be some normal monogamous relationship with the man actually leading and calling the shots or seeming like he is the center of his own world. A family member of mine is in an open marriage with his wife who calling the shots on it, she has a second boyfriend and he doesn’t seem to do much in getting a second girlfriend. It’s maybe the only example I’ve ever seen of a guy who seems to be more invested and servile in the relationship than the other way around. Other examples have a weird dynamic where the guy just seems collared. The truth is there are many interesting contradictions and trickery in this notion. Every woman wants to feel like they are punching above their weight, like they have risen in social status. There is a reason the trope of Prince Charming, a man with abundant status and resources rescuing the povo girl is so popular. Women date up, men date down. At the same time women’s sexuality and mystery is a prize for men and much of the drive behind the “modus operandi” for men when around women is getting into their pants if they are attractive. So in many ways it’s a value exchange and the concept can be applied to both. I think men in the long run are the prize but basically only if they are able to out shadow the prize the woman has to offer. Both have something to offer the other it just depends how demand they are in. The interesting thing about this is it is very counter intuitive. The guy who is able to outshine the prize women have to offer ultimately wins. At the top is the most 1) elite men, 2) very attractive women, 3) very attractive men, 4) average women, 5) average men, 6) unattractive women, 7) unattractive men. 

Edited June 6 by Lyubov

[Xonas Pitfall]

12 minutes ago, AION said:

Man is made in the image of god, not women.

It’s actually kind of funny since many of the qualities often associated with God tend to align more with what we typically define as feminine traits - things like purity, love, absolute beauty, peace, selflessness, and the creative force (especially symbolized in the ability to give birth, which is unique to women).

At the same time, I try to avoid rigid gender stereotypes, because God is often described through traits we associate with the masculine as well - power, omnipotence, all-knowing presence, structure, and order.

Ultimately, it feels like both sets of qualities are just different facets of the same source. We’re all made in the image of God, we are God! 

[AION]

7 hours ago, OBEler said:

Women are the Price.They select. Men just think they select.

Men are in a bad position they don't have really the cards even if they are powerful and have good genes. Divorce happens almost always by women and men get punished. Hypergamy is always at play and a good looking woman can find an even more powerful man.A man can do that too but the difference is men do that more for fun and not for seriously quitting a relationship for finding someone better.

LOL nowadays these beautiful women can’t find a partner …

1. because they all want that top notch men who use them for sex and dump them
2. they dont want to settle “with less” aka beta males.

 

Mind you that female value aka beauty is fading. They only have 16-24 gap to catch a good fish (!!)aka husband. After that it is going to be difficult 

So who is the prize ? If they are the prize why do they put up on make up? All that women do is focus on relationship to land a good man. And good man are focused on the prize. 

The sequence is this

• Women are focused on the prize which are men
• men are focused on the prize  which is not women, but themselves aka their own lives
• thus men who focus on themSelves and build their lives are the prize!!!!!

That is the definition of a king, somebody who focuses on his self/kingdom, doesn’t serve a women to get favors.  This is the only way to date high standing women and make it work. 

Edited June 6 by AION

[Emerald]

8 minutes ago, AION said:

Humans are like apes. There is the pride of the group. And all female apes are drawn to him. That is how we are biologically programmed. 

Like Owen Cook says: humans have created the monogamy culture so weak beta men can procreate but that culture is slowly eroding and we are slowly returning to our biological reality. 

Man is made in the image of god, not women. And he has to take his place in the universe. Letting women take the lead in a relationship almost always leads to disaster because very few women have an integrated animus. A women in lead is out of her feminine and deeply unhappy and desperate to keep the relationship going because of her kids or no better option.

First off, I wasn't advocating for women to lead the relationship. I was saying that women should be the prize in the relationship.

You can be the leader or you can be the prize... you can't be both. And if the woman is the leader and the man is the prize, that's not going to lead to a healthy relationship.

And I was saying that, when women lead the relationship and tries to woo the man and makes him the prize, she goes into her Masculine and starts putting the man up on a pedestal and trying to do all these things to make the relationship happen. And this puts a man into the Feminine beloved role while she takes on the Masculine lover role.

And men only pair-bond through going into the Masculine lover role, where he's leading and investing in a woman he sees as the prize.

Also, I see that you disagree with monogamy, and you're adding all this immature "beta male" idea that so many men are hung up on.

But I quite like a monogamous relationship and so do most women. So, you're just going to have to deal with it being a widespread preference for the majority of men and the VAST majority of women.

[AION]

An important insight I had about a women’s gaze. Men who don’t fit her criteria are not seen as men but as something else which I don’t want to spell out. This is a very ugly side of women. It is in their biology to look a certain way to her - perceived - low tier men. 

Edited June 6 by AION

[Lyubov]

There is massive hoe-flation and imbalances in dating right now in many western countries, causing instability. Economic factors and social issues have reshaped woman’s role in society as well as their perceptions of dating. Someone said monogamy was created so weak beta males could mate… tell the whole story… it was made so men wouldn’t tear each other apart due to massive inequalities. You can say that’s the true nature of it for only a few men to get all the women, but also include how that leads to total destruction of everyone, massive unrest and all the men fighting and destroying each other including those at the top. Because even Caesar isn’t safe in his palace. Not to mention the challenges that come along for women who don’t receive a man to themselves to help raise their children. It’s almost as if Humans were designed to go beyond just their instinctual desires and animal reasoning. 

Edited June 6 by Lyubov

[Natasha Tori Maru]

4 minutes ago, AION said:

An important insight I had about a women’s gaze. Men who don’t fit her criteria are not seen as men but as something else which I don’t want to spell out. This is a very ugly side of women. It is in their biology to look a certain way to her - perceived - low tier men. 

Don't pollute your mind with anything that you cannot prove or know.

Remember this is just all conjecture, no matter what you are reading etc. 

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, AION said:

An important insight I had about a women’s gaze. Men who don’t fit her criteria are not seen as men but as something else which I don’t want to spell out. This is a very ugly side of women. It is in their biology to look a certain way to low tier men. 

That's such a silly conjecture.

I can explain to you how it works.

When I interact with most men, they are neutral to me. And I can recognize when guys are more or less attractive, but it doesn't hold any meaning to me.

But when an attraction organically arises (usually after a few months of interacting with a guy) it comes on randomly. And then, it's like I can suddenly see and feel everything that's attractive about him and these intense feelings arise.

But until this happens, every man is neutral to me. It's not negative. Nor are my thoughts about him framed in terms of how I perceive his level of attractiveness. He's just as neutral to me as an old woman, until things flip around... if they do end up flipping around.

[Xonas Pitfall]

38 minutes ago, AION said:

An important insight I had about a women’s gaze. Men who don’t fit her criteria are not seen as men but as something else which I don’t want to spell out. This is a very ugly side of women. It is in their biology to look a certain way to low tier men. 

Would you say this applies to men, too? I recall a study suggesting that men often experience feelings of disgust or irritation when viewing images of women they perceive as unattractive.

[1] A study published in Frontiers in Psychology found that sexual arousal reduces men's disgust judgments of potential sexual partners, particularly those deemed less attractive. This suggests that, in a non-aroused state, men may have stronger negative reactions toward unattractive women. https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2018.02602/full

Edited June 6 by Xonas Pitfall

[Emerald]

3 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

There is massive hoe-flation and imbalances in dating right now in many western countries, causing instability. Economic factors and social issues have reshaped woman’s role in society as well as their perceptions of dating. Someone said monogamy was created so weak beta males could mate… tell the whole story… it was made so men wouldn’t tear each other apart due to massive inequalities. You can say that’s the true nature of it for only a few men to get all the women, but also include how that leads to total destruction of everyone, massive unrest and all the men fighting and destroying each other including those at the top. Because even Caesar isn’t safe in his palace. Not to mention the challenges that come along for women who don’t receive a man to themselves to help raise their children. It’s almost as if Humans were designed to go beyond just their instinctual desires and animal reasoning. 

Why do you have to frame male-female relationships in such an ugly way?

You're here chewing on these toxic philosophies, while there are men and women out there right now having real intimacy with one another.

You just have to let go of all these weird narratives that so many men are indoctrinated into now-a-days.

[AION]

2 minutes ago, Emerald said:

That's such a silly conjecture.

I can explain to you how it works.

When I interact with most men, they are neutral to me. And I can recognize when guys are more or less attractive, but it doesn't hold any meaning to me.

But when an attraction organically arises (usually after a few months of interacting with a guy) it comes on randomly. And then, it's like I can suddenly see and feel everything that's attractive about him and these intense feelings arise.

But until this happens, every man is neutral to me. It's not negative. Nor are my thoughts about him framed in terms of how I perceive his level of attractiveness. He's just as neutral to me as an old woman, until things flip around... if they do end up flipping around.

You are a very developed woman but very few women are like you. 
Attraction usually happens a within a few seconds. Afterwards it could happen too but that is not the point. 
 

I’m talking about how women look at men who don’t feed their criteria and how they look and treat them. 
 

I don’t want to spell it out because it is very ugly but you can observe it for yourself when a woman encounters a perceived low tier men who tries to get with her.  

[Emerald]

Just now, Xonas Pitfall said:

Would you say this applies to men, too? I recall a study suggesting that men often experience feelings of disgust or irritation when viewing images of women they perceive as unattractive.

[1] A study published in Frontiers in Psychology found that sexual arousal reduces men's disgust judgments of potential sexual partners, particularly those deemed less attractive. This suggests that, in a non-aroused state, men may have stronger negative reactions toward unattractive women. https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2018.02602/full

Both genders are influenced by physical attractiveness, men may exhibit more immediate negative reactions (disgust, agitation, irritation) toward unattractive women, whereas women are more likely to dismiss (ignore, not notice) unattractive men as potential partners.

It's a projection.

Men who feel disgust towards unattractive women, will project that women are feeling disgust towards them when a woman doesn't find them attractive.

But women see men as neutral regardless of their level of attractiveness.. until one really strikes her fancy.

[Lyubov]

Women absolutely filter how he describes. My girlfriend will literally take on a different cadence and tone in speech when she describes or talks about the vast majority of guys she sees as neutral and a MAN (guy who she is attracted to, me! ) 

Women do not see men they are attracted to as MEN. But the same concept extends to men. I don’t see fat women as WOMEN. They are neutral to me as well. 

[Emerald]

Just now, AION said:

You are a very developed woman but very few women are like you. 
Attraction usually happens a within a few seconds. Afterwards it could happen too but that is not the point. 

I’m talking about how women look at men who don’t feed their criteria and how they look and treat them. 

I don’t want to spell it out because it is very ugly but you can observe it for yourself when a woman encounters a perceived low tier men who tries to get with her.  

I think you're just projecting the way you feel about unattractive women onto women... and assuming they are responding the same way to men that they don't find attractive.